owl says forget about football. let's eat!

(07-02-2018 07:35 PM)ghostofclt Wrote:  clt says BBQ is chopped pork in a vinegar based sauce.


Brisket is another discussion.

No. No. No.

Brisket is the original BBQ. My family was raising cattle and smoking brisket in Texas by 1748. That's before the United States was even a country.

I'll tell you what we didn't raise... pigs. A pig's a filthy animal.

To be fair. If you had family here in 1748, they were most likely either Spanish or Natives. The Spanish brought pigs with them, hence the wild hog problem being worst in and spreading from states colonized by Spain. So if they were Spanish, they definitely raised pigs. If natives, then then everything I said is moot.

(07-02-2018 10:13 PM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  To be fair. If you had family here in 1748, they were most likely either Spanish or Natives. The Spanish brought pigs with them, hence the wild hog problem being worst in and spreading from states colonized by Spain. So if they were Spanish, they definitely raised pigs. If natives, then then everything I said is moot.

We are Spanish, and no we did not bring pigs. Pigs were not optimal for south Texas, where resources are scarce, and pigs would be a nuisance. We brought cattle, horses, and sheep. Those animals were more important or better suited for the environment. My family like others in south Texas didn't raise pigs. I'm sure father north or in east Texas, Spanish settlers and the missions could have raised pigs.

But the point is, in Texas we were BBQing beef before the settlers on the east coast started applying the technique to pork.

FWIW --

https://www.texasmonthly.com/bbq/smoked-...t-history/

Texas smoked brisket -- a Jewish kosher cut -- from France!

This thread has become a BBQ pit!

(07-03-2018 07:51 AM)ODU AGGIE Wrote:  FWIW --

https://www.texasmonthly.com/bbq/smoked-...t-history/

Texas smoked brisket -- a Jewish kosher cut -- from France!

Like most articles, this only touches on part of the truth.

The early history of Colonial Spanish Texas has been under-reported and what is known isn't complete or even misinformed. Probably 90% of the original Spanish settlers (Tejanos) were of Jewish decent, including my family. During the inquisition many opportunities were beyond the reach of Spaniards with Jewish ancestors, and life was much easier in the new world. At that time Texas was the farthest northern territory of the Spanish Empire.

So, down in Texas we were smoking beef, including the brisket, long before restaurants or newspapers were around. Sorry, but there were no records from the 1700's for Texas Monthly to find.

All Texas Monthly has really reported is a loose history of brisket's availability in the restaurant and markets.

(07-02-2018 11:01 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(07-02-2018 10:13 PM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  To be fair. If you had family here in 1748, they were most likely either Spanish or Natives. The Spanish brought pigs with them, hence the wild hog problem being worst in and spreading from states colonized by Spain. So if they were Spanish, they definitely raised pigs. If natives, then then everything I said is moot.

We are Spanish, and no we did not bring pigs. Pigs were not optimal for south Texas, where resources are scarce, and pigs would be a nuisance. We brought cattle, horses, and sheep. Those animals were more important or better suited for the environment. My family like others in south Texas didn't raise pigs. I'm sure father north or in east Texas, Spanish settlers and the missions could have raised pigs.

But the point is, in Texas we were BBQing beef before the settlers on the east coast started applying the technique to pork.

So you're saying you didn't bring pigs because they weren't optimal but are you also saying you didn't bring the technique? That it was developed in S Texas? Or were you possibly barbecuing other meats before you ever went to Texas, including pigs that thrived in a lot of the other regions the Spanish were settling?

(07-02-2018 05:39 PM)ghostofclt Wrote:  ...Houston needs zoning laws...

loki lost all respect for clt.

(07-03-2018 11:15 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(07-02-2018 11:01 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(07-02-2018 10:13 PM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  To be fair. If you had family here in 1748, they were most likely either Spanish or Natives. The Spanish brought pigs with them, hence the wild hog problem being worst in and spreading from states colonized by Spain. So if they were Spanish, they definitely raised pigs. If natives, then then everything I said is moot.

We are Spanish, and no we did not bring pigs. Pigs were not optimal for south Texas, where resources are scarce, and pigs would be a nuisance. We brought cattle, horses, and sheep. Those animals were more important or better suited for the environment. My family like others in south Texas didn't raise pigs. I'm sure father north or in east Texas, Spanish settlers and the missions could have raised pigs.

But the point is, in Texas we were BBQing beef before the settlers on the east coast started applying the technique to pork.

So you're saying you didn't bring pigs because they weren't optimal but are you also saying you didn't bring the technique? That it was developed in S Texas? Or were you possibly barbecuing other meats before you ever went to Texas, including pigs that thrived in a lot of the other regions the Spanish were settling?

We didn't bring pigs for a few of reasons. South Texas is a dry environment with little vegetation, much like the northern region of Spain, where we come from. And, we were of Jewish decent. Swine wasn't on the menu.

The technique is a combination of cultures. The early BBQ technique (Barbacoa), was learned from the Indians in the Caribbean, and migrated to south Texas. We combined the technique with our knowledge of cooking and applied it to our cattle. And, this is where modern Texas BBQ comes from.

(07-03-2018 11:55 AM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(07-03-2018 11:15 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(07-02-2018 11:01 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(07-02-2018 10:13 PM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  To be fair. If you had family here in 1748, they were most likely either Spanish or Natives. The Spanish brought pigs with them, hence the wild hog problem being worst in and spreading from states colonized by Spain. So if they were Spanish, they definitely raised pigs. If natives, then then everything I said is moot.

We are Spanish, and no we did not bring pigs. Pigs were not optimal for south Texas, where resources are scarce, and pigs would be a nuisance. We brought cattle, horses, and sheep. Those animals were more important or better suited for the environment. My family like others in south Texas didn't raise pigs. I'm sure father north or in east Texas, Spanish settlers and the missions could have raised pigs.

But the point is, in Texas we were BBQing beef before the settlers on the east coast started applying the technique to pork.

So you're saying you didn't bring pigs because they weren't optimal but are you also saying you didn't bring the technique? That it was developed in S Texas? Or were you possibly barbecuing other meats before you ever went to Texas, including pigs that thrived in a lot of the other regions the Spanish were settling?

We didn't bring pigs for a few of reasons. South Texas is a dry environment with little vegetation, much like the northern region of Spain, where we come from. And, we were of Jewish decent. Swine wasn't on the menu.

The technique is a combination of cultures. The early BBQ technique (Barbacoa), was learned from the Indians in the Caribbean, and migrated to south Texas. We combined the technique with our knowledge of cooking and applied it to our cattle. And, this is where modern Texas BBQ comes from.

I guarantee you someone was smoking a pig in the US a hundred years before any European ever thought about settling in South Texas.


Edit: What is now the US.

Everyone ignored the actual Best In TX poll to talk BBQ with the original as best offense. Lets now go to best defense in TX

best tx D

Rankings

First-place votes in parenthesis

Rank, school Points
1. TCU (6) 94
2. Texas (1) 83
3. Texas A&M 76
4. Houston (1) 74
5. Texas Tech 64
6. Baylor 52
7. North Texas 45
8. SMU 44
9. UTSA 39
10. Texas State 23
11. Rice 19
12. UTEP 11

(07-02-2018 09:52 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(07-02-2018 07:35 PM)ghostofclt Wrote:  clt says BBQ is chopped pork in a vinegar based sauce.


Brisket is another discussion.

No. No. No.

Brisket is the original BBQ. My family was raising cattle and smoking brisket in Texas by 1748. That's before the United States was even a country.

I'll tell you what we didn't raise... pigs. A pig's a filthy animal.

clt says brisket is brisket and is delicious when properly prepared. clt had Texas brisket at the San antionio airport Applebee’s, so I know what is proper Texas brisket.


BBQ is chopped or pulled pork with vinegar sauce, slaw, baked beans, and a bun.

(07-03-2018 11:37 AM)loki_the_bubba Wrote:  

(07-02-2018 05:39 PM)ghostofclt Wrote:  ...Houston needs zoning laws...

loki lost all respect for clt.

clt generally doesn’t support any government regulation but zoning makes sense. Houston is chaos.

(07-03-2018 12:44 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(07-03-2018 11:55 AM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(07-03-2018 11:15 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(07-02-2018 11:01 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(07-02-2018 10:13 PM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  To be fair. If you had family here in 1748, they were most likely either Spanish or Natives. The Spanish brought pigs with them, hence the wild hog problem being worst in and spreading from states colonized by Spain. So if they were Spanish, they definitely raised pigs. If natives, then then everything I said is moot.

We are Spanish, and no we did not bring pigs. Pigs were not optimal for south Texas, where resources are scarce, and pigs would be a nuisance. We brought cattle, horses, and sheep. Those animals were more important or better suited for the environment. My family like others in south Texas didn't raise pigs. I'm sure father north or in east Texas, Spanish settlers and the missions could have raised pigs.

But the point is, in Texas we were BBQing beef before the settlers on the east coast started applying the technique to pork.

So you're saying you didn't bring pigs because they weren't optimal but are you also saying you didn't bring the technique? That it was developed in S Texas? Or were you possibly barbecuing other meats before you ever went to Texas, including pigs that thrived in a lot of the other regions the Spanish were settling?

We didn't bring pigs for a few of reasons. South Texas is a dry environment with little vegetation, much like the northern region of Spain, where we come from. And, we were of Jewish decent. Swine wasn't on the menu.

The technique is a combination of cultures. The early BBQ technique (Barbacoa), was learned from the Indians in the Caribbean, and migrated to south Texas. We combined the technique with our knowledge of cooking and applied it to our cattle. And, this is where modern Texas BBQ comes from.

I guarantee you someone was smoking a pig in the US a hundred years before any European ever thought about settling in South Texas.


Edit: What is now the US.

The first settlement of any real length in what is now the United States was at Galveston TX, (Malhado), in 1528 (Spain tried to create a settlement in Georgia in 1526, but it only lasted 3 months). About 80 Spaniards were shipwrecked on Galveston after a storm. By the end of the winter, around 65 of them were dead. The remaining Spaniards became slaves to the Indians on the island. Cabeza De Vaca and a few others lived on Galveston for nearly a decade before escaping south to Spanish settlements. De Vaca wrote an amazing account of his time in Galveston and the interior of Texas, but I do not remember an account of BBQing, or pigs on the island. The book is available in English. I recommend it.

(07-03-2018 03:08 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(07-03-2018 12:44 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(07-03-2018 11:55 AM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(07-03-2018 11:15 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(07-02-2018 11:01 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  We are Spanish, and no we did not bring pigs. Pigs were not optimal for south Texas, where resources are scarce, and pigs would be a nuisance. We brought cattle, horses, and sheep. Those animals were more important or better suited for the environment. My family like others in south Texas didn't raise pigs. I'm sure father north or in east Texas, Spanish settlers and the missions could have raised pigs.

But the point is, in Texas we were BBQing beef before the settlers on the east coast started applying the technique to pork.

So you're saying you didn't bring pigs because they weren't optimal but are you also saying you didn't bring the technique? That it was developed in S Texas? Or were you possibly barbecuing other meats before you ever went to Texas, including pigs that thrived in a lot of the other regions the Spanish were settling?

We didn't bring pigs for a few of reasons. South Texas is a dry environment with little vegetation, much like the northern region of Spain, where we come from. And, we were of Jewish decent. Swine wasn't on the menu.

The technique is a combination of cultures. The early BBQ technique (Barbacoa), was learned from the Indians in the Caribbean, and migrated to south Texas. We combined the technique with our knowledge of cooking and applied it to our cattle. And, this is where modern Texas BBQ comes from.

I guarantee you someone was smoking a pig in the US a hundred years before any European ever thought about settling in South Texas.


Edit: What is now the US.

The first settlement of any real length in what is now the United States was at Galveston TX, (Malhado), in 1528 (Spain tried to create a settlement in Georgia in 1526, but it only lasted 3 months). About 80 Spaniards were shipwrecked on Galveston after a storm. By the end of the winter, around 65 of them were dead. The remaining Spaniards became slaves to the Indians on the island. Cabeza De Vaca and a few others lived on Galveston for nearly a decade before escaping south to Spanish settlements. De Vaca wrote an amazing account of his time in Galveston and the interior of Texas, but I do not remember an account of BBQing, or pigs on the island. The book is available in English. I recommend it.

That's fascinating but I think you'd be hard pressed to call being shipwrecked and enslaved a settlement. And it certainly doesn't sound like they had any cattle.

(07-03-2018 03:32 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(07-03-2018 03:08 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(07-03-2018 12:44 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(07-03-2018 11:55 AM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(07-03-2018 11:15 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  So you're saying you didn't bring pigs because they weren't optimal but are you also saying you didn't bring the technique? That it was developed in S Texas? Or were you possibly barbecuing other meats before you ever went to Texas, including pigs that thrived in a lot of the other regions the Spanish were settling?

We didn't bring pigs for a few of reasons. South Texas is a dry environment with little vegetation, much like the northern region of Spain, where we come from. And, we were of Jewish decent. Swine wasn't on the menu.

The technique is a combination of cultures. The early BBQ technique (Barbacoa), was learned from the Indians in the Caribbean, and migrated to south Texas. We combined the technique with our knowledge of cooking and applied it to our cattle. And, this is where modern Texas BBQ comes from.

I guarantee you someone was smoking a pig in the US a hundred years before any European ever thought about settling in South Texas.


Edit: What is now the US.

The first settlement of any real length in what is now the United States was at Galveston TX, (Malhado), in 1528 (Spain tried to create a settlement in Georgia in 1526, but it only lasted 3 months). About 80 Spaniards were shipwrecked on Galveston after a storm. By the end of the winter, around 65 of them were dead. The remaining Spaniards became slaves to the Indians on the island. Cabeza De Vaca and a few others lived on Galveston for nearly a decade before escaping south to Spanish settlements. De Vaca wrote an amazing account of his time in Galveston and the interior of Texas, but I do not remember an account of BBQing, or pigs on the island. The book is available in English. I recommend it.

That's fascinating but I think you'd be hard pressed to call being shipwrecked and enslaved a settlement. And it certainly doesn't sound like they had any cattle.

If you live somewhere for 10 years, it's a settlement.

But no, they didn't have cattle. They didn't even have horses. Cattle was first intentionally brought for the purpose of raising in the 1680's. Of course some cattle was already in Texas, having been brought through by Coronado and Pineda during their explorations in the 1500's.

(07-03-2018 03:50 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(07-03-2018 03:32 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(07-03-2018 03:08 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  

(07-03-2018 12:44 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(07-03-2018 11:55 AM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  We didn't bring pigs for a few of reasons. South Texas is a dry environment with little vegetation, much like the northern region of Spain, where we come from. And, we were of Jewish decent. Swine wasn't on the menu.

The technique is a combination of cultures. The early BBQ technique (Barbacoa), was learned from the Indians in the Caribbean, and migrated to south Texas. We combined the technique with our knowledge of cooking and applied it to our cattle. And, this is where modern Texas BBQ comes from.

I guarantee you someone was smoking a pig in the US a hundred years before any European ever thought about settling in South Texas.


Edit: What is now the US.

The first settlement of any real length in what is now the United States was at Galveston TX, (Malhado), in 1528 (Spain tried to create a settlement in Georgia in 1526, but it only lasted 3 months). About 80 Spaniards were shipwrecked on Galveston after a storm. By the end of the winter, around 65 of them were dead. The remaining Spaniards became slaves to the Indians on the island. Cabeza De Vaca and a few others lived on Galveston for nearly a decade before escaping south to Spanish settlements. De Vaca wrote an amazing account of his time in Galveston and the interior of Texas, but I do not remember an account of BBQing, or pigs on the island. The book is available in English. I recommend it.

That's fascinating but I think you'd be hard pressed to call being shipwrecked and enslaved a settlement. And it certainly doesn't sound like they had any cattle.

If you live somewhere for 10 years, it's a settlement.

But no, they didn't have cattle. They didn't even have horses. Cattle was first intentionally brought for the purpose of raising in the 1680's. Of course some cattle was already in Texas, having been brought through by Coronado and Pineda during their explorations in the 1500's.

Well if you say so then I admit I was wrong. The first pigs were being smoked in America around the same time of the first "settlement" in Texas. They were introduced to the mainland by Hernando de Soto in Tampa Bay FL in 1539.

(07-03-2018 01:23 PM)NTXCoog12 Wrote:  Everyone ignored the actual Best In TX poll to talk BBQ with the original as best offense. Lets now go to best defense in TX

best tx D

Rankings

First-place votes in parenthesis

Rank, school Points
1. TCU (6) 94
2. Texas (1) 83
3. Texas A&M 76
4. Houston (1) 74
5. Texas Tech 64
6. Baylor 52
7. North Texas 45
8. SMU 44
9. UTSA 39
10. Texas State 23
11. Rice 19
12. UTEP 11

This is proof that the best offense is a good defense. Frogs really can be Princes.
And the converse is also apparently true (looking at you, Mynah Birds)

(07-02-2018 06:25 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:  You can bad mouth Houston... most of it looks like a dump now.

Hard to tell what is tongue-in-cheek, and what is not. Is your dump comment somehow related to the flooding damage from Harvey? I would contest this comment on any day, but it is especially not true 10 months removed from Harvey. The money being spent to restore the Bellaire/Meyerland area is amazing.