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Which C-USA teams receive Get Out of Jail cards when AAC, MWC have to backfill?
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AZcats Offline
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Post: #101
RE: Which C-USA teams receive Get Out of Jail cards when AAC, MWC have to backfill?
(06-12-2018 11:34 PM)joeben69 Wrote:  
(06-12-2018 11:23 PM)UTArlingtonMaverick Wrote:  
(06-12-2018 10:55 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Colorado State and SMU do not have the fanbase that Boise State have. Boise State is the hot chick who is much better than other schools in certain metrics over other schools. They are now a research school and still building on their program. I think Idaho is being dumped for Boise State as a state research school.

R3, right?

idaho = r2
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_re...ctivity%22

boise state = r3
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_re...ctivity%22

Colorado State = R1
06-12-2018 11:38 PM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #102
RE: Which C-USA teams receive Get Out of Jail cards when AAC, MWC have to backfill?
(06-12-2018 06:20 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  
(06-12-2018 05:04 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(06-12-2018 03:05 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  
(06-12-2018 02:38 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(06-12-2018 01:52 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  I think they almost certainly would if WVU is still part of the rebuilding.

If I'm president of a B12 survivor and WVU is still in, yeah, I'd much rather my basketball teams and volleyball team swing Morgantown/Greenville than Morgantown/Memphis or such.

ECU is not a land grant school or part of a media market.

NIU would be better addition with Chicago and has played at a higher level the past 10-15 years.

None of which makes traveling to Morgantown any easier.

East Carolina is not close to WVU. It is a 7.5 hour drive. NIU is 9.5 hours from WVU. ECU had a purpose for WVU in scheduling for years; a higher level non-MAC school they could schedule a 1 for 1 with.

ECU won't be part of a B12 expansion package. They want to build in between WVU and the plains schools. That is what NIU can give the B12. ECU's football team isn't very good and has limited upside as shown by their struggles in the AAC.

The fact that ECU has a better fan base is immaterial if they can't compete. NIU has a design for a 42,000 seater to be built should they get the call up. That will meet the grade for B12 competition.

Cincinnati is the school that is close to WVU which by addition gives them a regional rival not ECU. In both football and basketball.

Wow. ECU can compete. They have hit a rough patch of several down years---but they do generally field solid football teams. Now thier basketball program isnt much---but I wouldnt judge ECU football on the last few years. Im not saying ECU is a lock---ECU is just one of a number of schools that could make a solid case as the right choice to finish out a theoretical rebuilding of the B12 conference. Im just saying you can't dismiss them. They have a very solid case for inclusion.
(This post was last modified: 06-13-2018 12:46 AM by Attackcoog.)
06-13-2018 12:41 AM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #103
RE: Which C-USA teams receive Get Out of Jail cards when AAC, MWC have to backfill?
(06-12-2018 11:35 PM)AZcats Wrote:  
(06-12-2018 10:55 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Colorado State and SMU do not have the fanbase that Boise State have. Boise State is the hot chick who is much better than other schools in certain metrics over other schools. They are now a research school and still building on their program. I think Idaho is being dumped for Boise State as a state research school.

Football 2016 - Avg attendance / Pct capacity
Boise State (10-3) - 34,273 / 94.19
Colorado State (7-6) - 27,600 / 84.92

Football 2017 - Avg attendance / Pct capacity
Colorado State (7-6) - 32,062 / 87.84
Boise State (11-3) - 31,126 / 85.54

This may be only a 2 year comparison but look how much CSU jumped over BSU. I would say the fan bases are pretty much the same. CSU also has a huge advantage in the number of alumni.


If you go to a 10 year spread, the average for Boise State is around 34,000 while Colorado State will be around 30,000. Boise State's winning streak is much better than Colorado State since the Rams had some losing seasons.
06-13-2018 01:02 AM
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AZcats Offline
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Post: #104
RE: Which C-USA teams receive Get Out of Jail cards when AAC, MWC have to backfill?
(06-13-2018 01:02 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(06-12-2018 11:35 PM)AZcats Wrote:  
(06-12-2018 10:55 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Colorado State and SMU do not have the fanbase that Boise State have. Boise State is the hot chick who is much better than other schools in certain metrics over other schools. They are now a research school and still building on their program. I think Idaho is being dumped for Boise State as a state research school.

Football 2016 - Avg attendance / Pct capacity
Boise State (10-3) - 34,273 / 94.19
Colorado State (7-6) - 27,600 / 84.92

Football 2017 - Avg attendance / Pct capacity
Colorado State (7-6) - 32,062 / 87.84
Boise State (11-3) - 31,126 / 85.54

This may be only a 2 year comparison but look how much CSU jumped over BSU. I would say the fan bases are pretty much the same. CSU also has a huge advantage in the number of alumni.


If you go to a 10 year spread, the average for Boise State is around 34,000 while Colorado State will be around 30,000. Boise State's winning streak is much better than Colorado State since the Rams had some losing seasons.

Ok, here's your 10 year comparison.

2008 - Avg attendance
Colorado State (7-6) - 21,008
Boise State (12-1) - 32,275

2017 - Avg attendance
Colorado State (7-6) - 32,062
Boise State (11-3) - 31,126 includes MW CCG

CSU jumped by 11,000 while BSU trended down slightly by 1,000. CSU bottomed out in 2013; (8-6) - 18,600. BSU peaked in 2012; (11-2) - 35,404. Regardless of the history, the size of the fan base for both schools is equivalent and possibly favoring Colorado State when other factors are included.
06-13-2018 11:21 AM
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NBPirate Offline
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Post: #105
RE: Which C-USA teams receive Get Out of Jail cards when AAC, MWC have to backfill?
(06-12-2018 03:05 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  
(06-12-2018 02:38 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(06-12-2018 01:52 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(06-12-2018 03:41 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  
(06-11-2018 04:22 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Absoutely. Lets say Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, and Texas Tech bail. Houston, Memphis, Cinci, Colorado St, SMU, BYU, ECU, UConn, UCF, etc would all love to be part of a conference called the Big12 that is based on a core of solid fan base teams including Oklahoma St, Kansas St, Iowa St, W Virginia, Baylor, and TCU. The western AAC teams like Tulane, Houston, SMU, and Memphis would be MUCH better off playing those more familiar P5 schools from the central time zone. 04-cheers

UConn they were a finalist.

SMU. They really don't deserve it but hey they are in the footprint.

East Carolina? They won't be getting a B12 call.

I think they almost certainly would if WVU is still part of the rebuilding.

If I'm president of a B12 survivor and WVU is still in, yeah, I'd much rather my basketball teams and volleyball team swing Morgantown/Greenville than Morgantown/Memphis or such.

ECU is not a land grant school or part of a media market.

NIU would be better addition with Chicago and has played at a higher level the past 10-15 years.

ECU is a sea grant, analogous to land grant but with a purpose of exploring and researching oceans. Which makes sense given ECU's proximity to the Atlantic. It's not lesser than.
06-13-2018 11:37 AM
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bullet Offline
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Post: #106
RE: Which C-USA teams receive Get Out of Jail cards when AAC, MWC have to backfill?
(06-13-2018 11:21 AM)AZcats Wrote:  
(06-13-2018 01:02 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(06-12-2018 11:35 PM)AZcats Wrote:  
(06-12-2018 10:55 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Colorado State and SMU do not have the fanbase that Boise State have. Boise State is the hot chick who is much better than other schools in certain metrics over other schools. They are now a research school and still building on their program. I think Idaho is being dumped for Boise State as a state research school.

Football 2016 - Avg attendance / Pct capacity
Boise State (10-3) - 34,273 / 94.19
Colorado State (7-6) - 27,600 / 84.92

Football 2017 - Avg attendance / Pct capacity
Colorado State (7-6) - 32,062 / 87.84
Boise State (11-3) - 31,126 / 85.54

This may be only a 2 year comparison but look how much CSU jumped over BSU. I would say the fan bases are pretty much the same. CSU also has a huge advantage in the number of alumni.


If you go to a 10 year spread, the average for Boise State is around 34,000 while Colorado State will be around 30,000. Boise State's winning streak is much better than Colorado State since the Rams had some losing seasons.

Ok, here's your 10 year comparison.

2008 - Avg attendance
Colorado State (7-6) - 21,008
Boise State (12-1) - 32,275

2017 - Avg attendance
Colorado State (7-6) - 32,062
Boise State (11-3) - 31,126 includes MW CCG

CSU jumped by 11,000 while BSU trended down slightly by 1,000. CSU bottomed out in 2013; (8-6) - 18,600. BSU peaked in 2012; (11-2) - 35,404. Regardless of the history, the size of the fan base for both schools is equivalent and possibly favoring Colorado State when other factors are included.

Not clear how much of their jump is the new stadium effect and how long that will last.
06-13-2018 01:13 PM
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Native Georgian Offline
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Post: #107
RE: Which C-USA teams receive Get Out of Jail cards when AAC, MWC have to backfill?
(06-10-2018 11:14 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  Personally, I think VCU (non-football) and Army (football-only) are natural geographic, institutional and athletic program fits that add valuable content and competitive teams to the current slate of the American.
Agreed. I think that, eventually, it will happen.
06-13-2018 02:00 PM
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AZcats Offline
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Post: #108
RE: Which C-USA teams receive Get Out of Jail cards when AAC, MWC have to backfill?
(06-13-2018 01:13 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(06-13-2018 11:21 AM)AZcats Wrote:  
(06-13-2018 01:02 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(06-12-2018 11:35 PM)AZcats Wrote:  
(06-12-2018 10:55 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Colorado State and SMU do not have the fanbase that Boise State have. Boise State is the hot chick who is much better than other schools in certain metrics over other schools. They are now a research school and still building on their program. I think Idaho is being dumped for Boise State as a state research school.

Football 2016 - Avg attendance / Pct capacity
Boise State (10-3) - 34,273 / 94.19
Colorado State (7-6) - 27,600 / 84.92

Football 2017 - Avg attendance / Pct capacity
Colorado State (7-6) - 32,062 / 87.84
Boise State (11-3) - 31,126 / 85.54

This may be only a 2 year comparison but look how much CSU jumped over BSU. I would say the fan bases are pretty much the same. CSU also has a huge advantage in the number of alumni.


If you go to a 10 year spread, the average for Boise State is around 34,000 while Colorado State will be around 30,000. Boise State's winning streak is much better than Colorado State since the Rams had some losing seasons.

Ok, here's your 10 year comparison.

2008 - Avg attendance
Colorado State (7-6) - 21,008
Boise State (12-1) - 32,275

2017 - Avg attendance
Colorado State (7-6) - 32,062
Boise State (11-3) - 31,126 includes MW CCG

CSU jumped by 11,000 while BSU trended down slightly by 1,000. CSU bottomed out in 2013; (8-6) - 18,600. BSU peaked in 2012; (11-2) - 35,404. Regardless of the history, the size of the fan base for both schools is equivalent and possibly favoring Colorado State when other factors are included.

Not clear how much of their jump is the new stadium effect and how long that will last.

True, it does help that students don't have to go 3 miles off campus for football anymore. Boise State had 8 10-win seasons and changed conferences yet it appears they have very few sellouts in a 36,387 seat stadium.
06-13-2018 02:03 PM
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Post: #109
RE: Which C-USA teams receive Get Out of Jail cards when AAC, MWC have to backfill?
(06-12-2018 03:05 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  
(06-12-2018 02:38 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(06-12-2018 01:52 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(06-12-2018 03:41 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  
(06-11-2018 04:22 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Absoutely. Lets say Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, and Texas Tech bail. Houston, Memphis, Cinci, Colorado St, SMU, BYU, ECU, UConn, UCF, etc would all love to be part of a conference called the Big12 that is based on a core of solid fan base teams including Oklahoma St, Kansas St, Iowa St, W Virginia, Baylor, and TCU. The western AAC teams like Tulane, Houston, SMU, and Memphis would be MUCH better off playing those more familiar P5 schools from the central time zone. 04-cheers

UConn they were a finalist.

SMU. They really don't deserve it but hey they are in the footprint.

East Carolina? They won't be getting a B12 call.

I think they almost certainly would if WVU is still part of the rebuilding.

If I'm president of a B12 survivor and WVU is still in, yeah, I'd much rather my basketball teams and volleyball team swing Morgantown/Greenville than Morgantown/Memphis or such.

ECU is not a land grant school or part of a media market.

NIU would be better addition with Chicago and has played at a higher level the past 10-15 years.
I don't have a dog in this fight, but that is about the craziest thing I've read in a while.

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06-16-2018 08:49 PM
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herdfan129 Offline
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Post: #110
RE: Which C-USA teams receive Get Out of Jail cards when AAC, MWC have to backfill?
First of all, I don't think the AAC will be losing anyone for at least 4-5 years. If/when that happens a lot of who is selected will be determined by who left the AAC and who will still be around in the AAC.

Having said all of that, its funny to think that NIU, Toledo, F_U, Charlotte, or anyone from the Sun Belt would get in to the AAC before Rice, UTEP, UAB, So Miss, or Marshall. Those 5 schools are your next AAC invites depending on who leaves the AAC to open up a spot. Only other school who has a shot is UMASS in the case that UCONN gets left behind and they demand UMASS.
06-17-2018 10:07 AM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #111
RE: Which C-USA teams receive Get Out of Jail cards when AAC, MWC have to backfill?
(06-17-2018 10:07 AM)herdfan129 Wrote:  First of all, I don't think the AAC will be losing anyone for at least 4-5 years. If/when that happens a lot of who is selected will be determined by who left the AAC and who will still be around in the AAC.

Having said all of that, its funny to think that NIU, Toledo, F_U, Charlotte, or anyone from the Sun Belt would get in to the AAC before Rice, UTEP, UAB, So Miss, or Marshall. Those 5 schools are your next AAC invites depending on who leaves the AAC to open up a spot. Only other school who has a shot is UMASS in the case that UCONN gets left behind and they demand UMASS.


Well, Northern Illinois and Toledo would help in case Cincinnati leaves. From all that I have seen, the first three names mentioned when the Big 12 expansion fiasco a few years ago was that AAC have UMass, Southern Mississippi and Old Dominion as the first three. The other schools I saw recently was VCU and Dayton.
06-17-2018 10:18 AM
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RE: Which C-USA teams receive Get Out of Jail cards when AAC, MWC have to backfill?
I’d be surprised if Marshall and Southern Miss were a level above NIU/Toledo/FAU/Charlotte when the AAC hasn’t made a non-market addition outside of ECU. NIU/Toledo/FAU/Charlotte get you more exposure for FB recruiting, student recruiting, and potential viewers and that’s what presidents look at. Marshall and Southern Miss have demonstrated a better overall history of being competitive in the AAC but they haven’t outperformed NIU/Toledo this decade and the same could hold true for FAU by the time AAC expands.

I think the next team will be Army, Rice, or Massachusetts
06-17-2018 03:12 PM
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Kittonhead Offline
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Post: #113
RE: Which C-USA teams receive Get Out of Jail cards when AAC, MWC have to backfill?
(06-16-2018 08:49 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  
(06-12-2018 03:05 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  
(06-12-2018 02:38 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(06-12-2018 01:52 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(06-12-2018 03:41 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  UConn they were a finalist.

SMU. They really don't deserve it but hey they are in the footprint.

East Carolina? They won't be getting a B12 call.

I think they almost certainly would if WVU is still part of the rebuilding.

If I'm president of a B12 survivor and WVU is still in, yeah, I'd much rather my basketball teams and volleyball team swing Morgantown/Greenville than Morgantown/Memphis or such.

ECU is not a land grant school or part of a media market.

NIU would be better addition with Chicago and has played at a higher level the past 10-15 years.
I don't have a dog in this fight, but that is about the craziest thing I've read in a while.

Sent from my XT1635-01 using CSNbbs mobile app

I would also put Appalachian State up there as a better addition than ECU.

That is because ASU has more of a football school culture. ECU has atmosphere but is not a place where tough as nails players want to go.

ECU was at its peak in the 90's before all the competition came about at the mid major level. They had the one Peach Bowl year but haven't done anything since. That fan base has largely been the result of bringing big home opponents in. The one thing they are good at, non-conference scheduling.
06-17-2018 04:32 PM
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esayem Offline
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Post: #114
RE: Which C-USA teams receive Get Out of Jail cards when AAC, MWC have to backfill?
If Cincinnati and Houston would have been invited to the Big XII, I think Rice would have been a lock. Army would have been recruited to join as well, and a division with private schools may have enticed them enough to rejoin a football conference. Memphis would move to the East for football, and VCU may have been invited for other sports.

Army
Navy
Rice
Tulane
SMU
Tulsa

I mentioned in another thread that in the summer of 2003, the AD's of these six schools actually met in the Baltimore Airport to discuss their athletic futures.

Historically speaking, Southern Miss, UAB, and Marshall seem to have an edge over the other C-USA schools, but with all the new programs popping up (UTSA, Charlotte, Old Dominion), it's hard to say who has an advantage amongst the rest. Rice, UTEP, and Southern Miss have been shafted the most due to realignment considering they've played at the top level the longest. UAB basketball and Marshall football seem to have lost some of their mystique over the years. I have to think Louisiana Tech, North Texas, UTSA, FAU, and FIU would probably be blackballed due to geography. Outside C-USA, UMass is doing everything right to position themselves for an invite as well.
06-18-2018 12:42 AM
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Stugray2 Offline
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Post: #115
RE: Which C-USA teams receive Get Out of Jail cards when AAC, MWC have to backfill?
If the AAC loses two schools, they don't back fill. 10 schools is enough for a CCG and for maximum Playoff money. Same for the MWC.

The best bet for anyone in CUSA is for one or (best case scenario) both of those conferences to lose one school only. For example the best case scenario would be for Colorado State and UCF (or Cincy or UConn) to be invited to the Big XII to replace say OU and KU who joined another conference.

The MWC would be looking most closely at UTEP and Rice.
The American ???
* if Academics/Research matter, then UMass, Buffalo, Rice and UAB would be on top (FIU and Georgia State also rank better than G5)
* If Athletics alone, harder to say, but if it's a mix of athletics and academics, then Toledo and ODU well funded and decent.

I have to think Rice might be a winner one way or the other if both the MWC and AAC both lost a school.

But again if the AAC lost two schools, the odds are they stay pat, but lose one UMass and Rice (if they lose Houston) could be the top contenders.
06-18-2018 03:02 AM
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Kittonhead Offline
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Post: #116
RE: Which C-USA teams receive Get Out of Jail cards when AAC, MWC have to backfill?
(06-18-2018 12:42 AM)esayem Wrote:  If Cincinnati and Houston would have been invited to the Big XII, I think Rice would have been a lock. Army would have been recruited to join as well, and a division with private schools may have enticed them enough to rejoin a football conference. Memphis would move to the East for football, and VCU may have been invited for other sports.

I haven't said it in a while but I question that VCU would be in for a move to the AAC.

-Travel costs are going to be a lot higher in the AAC plus higher coaching salaries.

-VCU is sharing a conference with Richmond, George Washington and George Mason which are key schools in its marketplace.

-The A10 is and has long been a consistent multi-bid conference. They have been very adept at making additions to keep it that way. The loss of Dayton and St. Louis even wouldn't hurt them too much.

Personally I think Dayton would be a better choice for the AAC because they bring fans which drives perception. Both Dayton and St. Louis right now would be good adds to the AAC.
06-18-2018 06:33 AM
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esayem Offline
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RE: Which C-USA teams receive Get Out of Jail cards when AAC, MWC have to backfill?
(06-18-2018 06:33 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  
(06-18-2018 12:42 AM)esayem Wrote:  If Cincinnati and Houston would have been invited to the Big XII, I think Rice would have been a lock. Army would have been recruited to join as well, and a division with private schools may have enticed them enough to rejoin a football conference. Memphis would move to the East for football, and VCU may have been invited for other sports.

I haven't said it in a while but I question that VCU would be in for a move to the AAC.

-Travel costs are going to be a lot higher in the AAC plus higher coaching salaries.

-VCU is sharing a conference with Richmond, George Washington and George Mason which are key schools in its marketplace.

-The A10 is and has long been a consistent multi-bid conference. They have been very adept at making additions to keep it that way. The loss of Dayton and St. Louis even wouldn't hurt them too much.

Personally I think Dayton would be a better choice for the AAC because they bring fans which drives perception. Both Dayton and St. Louis right now would be good adds to the AAC.

I don’t disagree, but I’m not sure Cincinnati goes for Dayton. If Cincinnati is gone and the American wants a non-football, then Dayton vaults to the top. On the other hand, Cincinnati has shared a conference, the Great Midwest, with Dayton before.

St. Louis would be a great addition considering their location and somewhat recent basketball success. I believe they have an excellent coach in Travis Ford, who may stick around for some time.
06-18-2018 08:16 AM
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Post: #118
RE: Which C-USA teams receive Get Out of Jail cards when AAC, MWC have to backfill?
If the American loses just one member then Army is their top choice. They then have the freedom to pursue a basketball to fill out Olympic sports or just stand at 11.
06-18-2018 10:16 PM
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Post: #119
RE: Which C-USA teams receive Get Out of Jail cards when AAC, MWC have to backfill?
(06-18-2018 06:33 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  
(06-18-2018 12:42 AM)esayem Wrote:  If Cincinnati and Houston would have been invited to the Big XII, I think Rice would have been a lock. Army would have been recruited to join as well, and a division with private schools may have enticed them enough to rejoin a football conference. Memphis would move to the East for football, and VCU may have been invited for other sports.

I haven't said it in a while but I question that VCU would be in for a move to the AAC.

-Travel costs are going to be a lot higher in the AAC plus higher coaching salaries.

-VCU is sharing a conference with Richmond, George Washington and George Mason which are key schools in its marketplace.

-The A10 is and has long been a consistent multi-bid conference. They have been very adept at making additions to keep it that way. The loss of Dayton and St. Louis even wouldn't hurt them too much.

Personally I think Dayton would be a better choice for the AAC because they bring fans which drives perception. Both Dayton and St. Louis right now would be good adds to the AAC.

According to the media here in Richmond, VCU and Dayton already told the AAC to take a hike, when Wichita was added.
06-19-2018 06:10 AM
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Kittonhead Offline
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RE: Which C-USA teams receive Get Out of Jail cards when AAC, MWC have to backfill?
(06-19-2018 06:10 AM)AppfanInCAAland Wrote:  
(06-18-2018 06:33 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  
(06-18-2018 12:42 AM)esayem Wrote:  If Cincinnati and Houston would have been invited to the Big XII, I think Rice would have been a lock. Army would have been recruited to join as well, and a division with private schools may have enticed them enough to rejoin a football conference. Memphis would move to the East for football, and VCU may have been invited for other sports.

I haven't said it in a while but I question that VCU would be in for a move to the AAC.

-Travel costs are going to be a lot higher in the AAC plus higher coaching salaries.

-VCU is sharing a conference with Richmond, George Washington and George Mason which are key schools in its marketplace.

-The A10 is and has long been a consistent multi-bid conference. They have been very adept at making additions to keep it that way. The loss of Dayton and St. Louis even wouldn't hurt them too much.

Personally I think Dayton would be a better choice for the AAC because they bring fans which drives perception. Both Dayton and St. Louis right now would be good adds to the AAC.

According to the media here in Richmond, VCU and Dayton already told the AAC to take a hike, when Wichita was added.

Yeah they don't need it as much as Wichita did.
06-19-2018 06:52 AM
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