The unofficial online home for fans of the Old Dominion University Monarchs. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

Lol, it's not like there are many facts posted on a message board.

(06-07-2018 01:15 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(06-07-2018 01:08 PM)ODU_NYG Wrote:  Because stats are boring. They already ruin every conversation about baseball now.

Its been such a pleasure to see how it has enhanced the game. Teams have really gotten smart about it.

Stats have their place. I can see how different Davey Martinez is utilizing certain stats when coming up with strategy and lineups, etc where Dusty would never do that.

I just don't like using stats to justify poor performance and losses. BABIP is the worse example of this. Not that I hate that stat, but if a guy is in a 1 for 30 slump, I can say he sucks and I don't have to be happy that his BABIP suggests that he's just unlucky.

(06-07-2018 01:59 PM)ODU_NYG Wrote:  

(06-07-2018 01:15 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(06-07-2018 01:08 PM)ODU_NYG Wrote:  Because stats are boring. They already ruin every conversation about baseball now.

Its been such a pleasure to see how it has enhanced the game. Teams have really gotten smart about it.

Stats have their place. I can see how different Davey Martinez is utilizing certain stats when coming up with strategy and lineups, etc where Dusty would never do that.

I just don't like using stats to justify poor performance and losses. BABIP is the worse example of this. Not that I hate that stat, but if a guy is in a 1 for 30 slump, I can say he sucks and I don't have to be happy that his BABIP suggests that he's just unlucky.

Not to derail, but if he's put all 30 balls in play and has 1 hit on them...he's probably very unlucky. People underestimate how much luck is involved in sports.

Hell, Kevin Durant made a 30 footer last night. He's something like 2 for 17 on 3 pointers that far behind the line and probably makes it less than 15%. But it went in at the right time.

(06-07-2018 02:09 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(06-07-2018 01:59 PM)ODU_NYG Wrote:  

(06-07-2018 01:15 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(06-07-2018 01:08 PM)ODU_NYG Wrote:  Because stats are boring. They already ruin every conversation about baseball now.

Its been such a pleasure to see how it has enhanced the game. Teams have really gotten smart about it.

Stats have their place. I can see how different Davey Martinez is utilizing certain stats when coming up with strategy and lineups, etc where Dusty would never do that.

I just don't like using stats to justify poor performance and losses. BABIP is the worse example of this. Not that I hate that stat, but if a guy is in a 1 for 30 slump, I can say he sucks and I don't have to be happy that his BABIP suggests that he's just unlucky.

Not to derail, but if he's put all 30 balls in play and has 1 hit on them...he's probably very unlucky. People underestimate how much luck is involved in sports.

Hell, Kevin Durant made a 30 footer last night. He's something like 2 for 17 on 3 pointers that far behind the line and probably makes it less than 15%. But it went in at the right time.

For a left handed batter to time and time again hit into the strength of the defense when they have placed one person near 2nd base on the short stop side of the base and put the other three infielders on the right side of 2nd base is simply dumb. They can put all 30 balls into play on the right side of the infield and reasonably expect not to get very many hits. On the other hand he could poke a soft liner or grounder down towards 3rd base, or push a hard bunt down towards 3rd base and jog safely down to first every time. Sometimes luck is what you make it to be.

(06-07-2018 12:28 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  To be honest, this board has a very low level knowledge of statistical analysis. Im not sure why that is. There are other college basketball forums that are much more sophisticated in that respect.

How do you know what other people are aware of when you don't know them personally?

Not meaning to indicate that you were addressing me personally, but my professional background is in Engineering having several decades working in that field. Obviously I have used numbers - statistical analysis - routinely in the course of my work. That said, everything has its limitations and stats are normally just another tool in the box so to speak and not the end of the story.

Just curious, I've shared with you .... what's your profession?

(06-07-2018 10:28 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(06-07-2018 10:22 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  It must be convenient to be "stats guy". Anytime someone proves you wrong, you just get to say "outlier".

You make yourself look really silly when you say things like this. Anyone with even a basic level knowledge of math understands what an outlier is.

I guess if I said Trey Porter was not a great 3 point shooter, you could bring up his 100% shooting percentage last year.

P.S. I'm not a stats guy; nowhere close. But, I do have a basic understanding of it and am smart enough to know the importance of them. Better that than ignorance.

Haha. I get the idea of what an outlier really is. Like, the fact that you are "right" 100% of the time, would be an outlier for humanity. The fact that every time someone refutes one of your opinions, they are definitely citing an outlier would also be an outlier.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

(06-07-2018 02:09 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(06-07-2018 01:59 PM)ODU_NYG Wrote:  

(06-07-2018 01:15 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(06-07-2018 01:08 PM)ODU_NYG Wrote:  Because stats are boring. They already ruin every conversation about baseball now.

Its been such a pleasure to see how it has enhanced the game. Teams have really gotten smart about it.

Stats have their place. I can see how different Davey Martinez is utilizing certain stats when coming up with strategy and lineups, etc where Dusty would never do that.

I just don't like using stats to justify poor performance and losses. BABIP is the worse example of this. Not that I hate that stat, but if a guy is in a 1 for 30 slump, I can say he sucks and I don't have to be happy that his BABIP suggests that he's just unlucky.

Not to derail, but if he's put all 30 balls in play and has 1 hit on them...he's probably very unlucky. People underestimate how much luck is involved in sports.

Hell, Kevin Durant made a 30 footer last night. He's something like 2 for 17 on 3 pointers that far behind the line and probably makes it less than 15%. But it went in at the right time.

Stats don't account for people rising to the occasion.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

Sure they do. There are lots of stats that measure performance at critical times.

Sent from my Pixel XL using CSNbbs mobile app

(06-07-2018 04:24 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(06-07-2018 02:09 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(06-07-2018 01:59 PM)ODU_NYG Wrote:  

(06-07-2018 01:15 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(06-07-2018 01:08 PM)ODU_NYG Wrote:  Because stats are boring. They already ruin every conversation about baseball now.

Its been such a pleasure to see how it has enhanced the game. Teams have really gotten smart about it.

Stats have their place. I can see how different Davey Martinez is utilizing certain stats when coming up with strategy and lineups, etc where Dusty would never do that.

I just don't like using stats to justify poor performance and losses. BABIP is the worse example of this. Not that I hate that stat, but if a guy is in a 1 for 30 slump, I can say he sucks and I don't have to be happy that his BABIP suggests that he's just unlucky.

Not to derail, but if he's put all 30 balls in play and has 1 hit on them...he's probably very unlucky. People underestimate how much luck is involved in sports.

Hell, Kevin Durant made a 30 footer last night. He's something like 2 for 17 on 3 pointers that far behind the line and probably makes it less than 15%. But it went in at the right time.

Stats don't account for people rising to the occasion.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

Lol

(06-07-2018 04:02 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(06-07-2018 12:28 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  To be honest, this board has a very low level knowledge of statistical analysis. Im not sure why that is. There are other college basketball forums that are much more sophisticated in that respect.

How do you know what other people are aware of when you don't know them personally?

Not meaning to indicate that you were addressing me personally, but my professional background is in Engineering having several decades working in that field. Obviously I have used numbers - statistical analysis - routinely in the course of my work. That said, everything has its limitations and stats are normally just another tool in the box so to speak and not the end of the story.

Just curious, I've shared with you .... what's your profession?

Can only go by what you read. Like Monarchs point that players magically rise to the occasion.

I work in real estate. The extent of my stats knoweldge is all the stats classes at OdU and reading on the internet.

(06-07-2018 04:21 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(06-07-2018 10:28 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(06-07-2018 10:22 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  It must be convenient to be "stats guy". Anytime someone proves you wrong, you just get to say "outlier".

You make yourself look really silly when you say things like this. Anyone with even a basic level knowledge of math understands what an outlier is.

I guess if I said Trey Porter was not a great 3 point shooter, you could bring up his 100% shooting percentage last year.

P.S. I'm not a stats guy; nowhere close. But, I do have a basic understanding of it and am smart enough to know the importance of them. Better that than ignorance.

Haha. I get the idea of what an outlier really is. Like, the fact that you are "right" 100% of the time, would be an outlier for humanity. The fact that every time someone refutes one of your opinions, they are definitely citing an outlier would also be an outlier.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

Sample Monarchblue argument:

“Persons that smoke have an increased likelhood of cancer”

“Oh yeah, well my grandaddy smoked 2 packs a day and drank a 6 pack and lived till he was 90! You’re wrong!”

(06-07-2018 05:57 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(06-07-2018 04:02 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(06-07-2018 12:28 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  To be honest, this board has a very low level knowledge of statistical analysis. Im not sure why that is. There are other college basketball forums that are much more sophisticated in that respect.

How do you know what other people are aware of when you don't know them personally?

Not meaning to indicate that you were addressing me personally, but my professional background is in Engineering having several decades working in that field. Obviously I have used numbers - statistical analysis - routinely in the course of my work. That said, everything has its limitations and stats are normally just another tool in the box so to speak and not the end of the story.

Just curious, I've shared with you .... what's your profession?

Can only go by what you read. Like Monarchs point that players magically rise to the occasion.

I work in real estate. The extent of my stats knoweldge is all the stats classes at OdU and reading on the internet.

Thanks for sharing that. Good luck with your sales.

(06-06-2018 04:52 PM)PhillyFlorz Wrote:  

(06-06-2018 02:58 PM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote:  

(06-06-2018 01:47 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(06-06-2018 12:54 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(06-06-2018 10:45 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  No, the point is that is ignorant to call other schools better just because they won the conference and made it to the NCAAs.

If all the school cared about was NCAA trips, why wouldnt they drop down to easier conferences to get in the NCAA tournament? You don't do that because conferences like CUSA are better than the Southern or MEAC or whatever other low major conferences there are.

In terms of recruiting, every recruit is different. But, playing in the Ted with our facilities is much better than playing in the Greensboro Coliseum. Awesome, they had 1 good year and seem to be on the right track. Unfortunately, they are at a level that with any success, the coach is gone because almost every other conference is a more attractive conference. At our level, there are still more attractive conferences, but the number is smaller.

I wish Hueitt the best. I just don't think kids make the smartest decisions (understandable for 18-21 year olds). But, hey if sitting out a year and playing 3 years in the Colisuem for a low major is what he's after, all the best to him. A far cry from what his offers were out of high school.

It is hard to argue that we were better than them last season, but you sure are trying. They finished the season with a higher ranking, won their conference, won a ton of games, made the tournament, earned a 13 seed, beat NC State, almost beat Gonzaga... What did we do that gives us the edge?

Its not hard to argue we were better. Worst case, both teams were roughly similar. THey won less games than us, FWIW. They beat NC State and also lost to UNC Asheville, Wake, Presbyterian, Chatanooga, and Mercer. All of a sudden this year, bad losses don't matter and only good wins matter?

Both went 15-3 in conference (CUSA is a tougher conference). They went 9-4 non conference, we went 10-4. Their non conference was slightly tougher. Their KenPom rating was 82, ours was 64.

Anyone can lose on an off night.

Good teams beat other good teams teams.

They had 3 wins better than our best win. That also matters so for you to make the assertion that we would EASILY win the Socon just shows how ridiculous your posting style is.

Not to mention YOU were the one touting Huett as gods gift to basketball last year. Now all of a sudden you think he’s nothing because he’s leaving.

This is why no one takes you or t-Mac seriously.

I think we should start a poll on which posters we take seriously. The results might be surprising.

(06-07-2018 10:28 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(06-07-2018 10:22 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  It must be convenient to be "stats guy". Anytime someone proves you wrong, you just get to say "outlier".

P.S. I'm not a stats guy; nowhere close. But, I do have a basic understanding of it and am smart enough to know the importance of them. Better that than ignorance.

You’re nowhere close to understanding stats and what they actually mean lol. Pretty much the EXACT opposite in fact.

(06-07-2018 05:59 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(06-07-2018 04:21 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(06-07-2018 10:28 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(06-07-2018 10:22 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  It must be convenient to be "stats guy". Anytime someone proves you wrong, you just get to say "outlier".

You make yourself look really silly when you say things like this. Anyone with even a basic level knowledge of math understands what an outlier is.

I guess if I said Trey Porter was not a great 3 point shooter, you could bring up his 100% shooting percentage last year.

P.S. I'm not a stats guy; nowhere close. But, I do have a basic understanding of it and am smart enough to know the importance of them. Better that than ignorance.

Haha. I get the idea of what an outlier really is. Like, the fact that you are "right" 100% of the time, would be an outlier for humanity. The fact that every time someone refutes one of your opinions, they are definitely citing an outlier would also be an outlier.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

Sample Monarchblue argument:

“Persons that smoke have an increased likelhood of cancer”

“Oh yeah, well my grandaddy smoked 2 packs a day and drank a 6 pack and lived till he was 90! You’re wrong!”

Lol this is a perfect example of how uninformed and misguided your OPINION normally is.

You aren’t a stats guy because you routinely fail to understand what you are discussing.

You’re about a half step below tmac

(06-07-2018 05:57 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(06-07-2018 04:02 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(06-07-2018 12:28 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  To be honest, this board has a very low level knowledge of statistical analysis. Im not sure why that is. There are other college basketball forums that are much more sophisticated in that respect.

How do you know what other people are aware of when you don't know them personally?

Not meaning to indicate that you were addressing me personally, but my professional background is in Engineering having several decades working in that field. Obviously I have used numbers - statistical analysis - routinely in the course of my work. That said, everything has its limitations and stats are normally just another tool in the box so to speak and not the end of the story.

Just curious, I've shared with you .... what's your profession?

Can only go by what you read. Like Monarchs point that players magically rise to the occasion.

I work in real estate. The extent of my stats knoweldge is all the stats classes at OdU and reading on the internet.

Jesus. You claim to have played sports at a reasonably high level and you do t believe that certain players perform better in big moments? Step away from the Stat sheet and watch a few games... Any sport will do.

Sent from my Pixel C using Tapatalk

(06-07-2018 02:09 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(06-07-2018 01:59 PM)ODU_NYG Wrote:  

(06-07-2018 01:15 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(06-07-2018 01:08 PM)ODU_NYG Wrote:  Because stats are boring. They already ruin every conversation about baseball now.

Its been such a pleasure to see how it has enhanced the game. Teams have really gotten smart about it.

Stats have their place. I can see how different Davey Martinez is utilizing certain stats when coming up with strategy and lineups, etc where Dusty would never do that.

I just don't like using stats to justify poor performance and losses. BABIP is the worse example of this. Not that I hate that stat, but if a guy is in a 1 for 30 slump, I can say he sucks and I don't have to be happy that his BABIP suggests that he's just unlucky.

Not to derail, but if he's put all 30 balls in play and has 1 hit on them...he's probably very unlucky. People underestimate how much luck is involved in sports.

Hell, Kevin Durant made a 30 footer last night. He's something like 2 for 17 on 3 pointers that far behind the line and probably makes it less than 15%. But it went in at the right time.

It isn't luck. Stats take out the psychology every time. What KD shoots in 100 meaningless regular season game in front of a half engaged crowd does not predict what he shoots in the NBA finals. That's why it is important to note JJ's teams crap the bed every time, despite KenPom or whatever stats you can drum up. Something is wrong. When the stakes get high, we fold like a cheap tent. Stats are utterly meaningless when it matters.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

(06-07-2018 08:23 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(06-07-2018 05:57 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(06-07-2018 04:02 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(06-07-2018 12:28 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  To be honest, this board has a very low level knowledge of statistical analysis. Im not sure why that is. There are other college basketball forums that are much more sophisticated in that respect.

How do you know what other people are aware of when you don't know them personally?

Not meaning to indicate that you were addressing me personally, but my professional background is in Engineering having several decades working in that field. Obviously I have used numbers - statistical analysis - routinely in the course of my work. That said, everything has its limitations and stats are normally just another tool in the box so to speak and not the end of the story.

Just curious, I've shared with you .... what's your profession?

Can only go by what you read. Like Monarchs point that players magically rise to the occasion.

I work in real estate. The extent of my stats knoweldge is all the stats classes at OdU and reading on the internet.

Jesus. You claim to have played sports at a reasonably high level and you do t believe that certain players perform better in big moments? Step away from the Stat sheet and watch a few games... Any sport will do.

Sent from my Pixel C using Tapatalk

I did. And still understand sample size.

(06-07-2018 08:53 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(06-07-2018 02:09 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(06-07-2018 01:59 PM)ODU_NYG Wrote:  

(06-07-2018 01:15 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(06-07-2018 01:08 PM)ODU_NYG Wrote:  Because stats are boring. They already ruin every conversation about baseball now.

Its been such a pleasure to see how it has enhanced the game. Teams have really gotten smart about it.

Stats have their place. I can see how different Davey Martinez is utilizing certain stats when coming up with strategy and lineups, etc where Dusty would never do that.

I just don't like using stats to justify poor performance and losses. BABIP is the worse example of this. Not that I hate that stat, but if a guy is in a 1 for 30 slump, I can say he sucks and I don't have to be happy that his BABIP suggests that he's just unlucky.

Not to derail, but if he's put all 30 balls in play and has 1 hit on them...he's probably very unlucky. People underestimate how much luck is involved in sports.

Hell, Kevin Durant made a 30 footer last night. He's something like 2 for 17 on 3 pointers that far behind the line and probably makes it less than 15%. But it went in at the right time.

It isn't luck. Stats take out the psychology every time. What KD shoots in 100 meaningless regular season game in front of a half engaged crowd does not predict what he shoots in the NBA finals. That's why it is important to note JJ's teams crap the bed every time, despite KenPom or whatever stats you can drum up. Something is wrong. When the stakes get high, we fold like a cheap tent. Stats are utterly meaningless when it matters.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

The only time we did anything worthwhile is when trey freeman dominated and nearly single handedly carried us to an NCAA tourney.

Our success that year had far more to do with him than JJ.

Of course the “stat geek” (who actually has no clue how stats actually work and apply) will NEVER admit this..........just another reason he has no credibility.

(06-07-2018 09:09 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(06-07-2018 08:23 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(06-07-2018 05:57 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(06-07-2018 04:02 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(06-07-2018 12:28 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  To be honest, this board has a very low level knowledge of statistical analysis. Im not sure why that is. There are other college basketball forums that are much more sophisticated in that respect.

How do you know what other people are aware of when you don't know them personally?

Not meaning to indicate that you were addressing me personally, but my professional background is in Engineering having several decades working in that field. Obviously I have used numbers - statistical analysis - routinely in the course of my work. That said, everything has its limitations and stats are normally just another tool in the box so to speak and not the end of the story.

Just curious, I've shared with you .... what's your profession?

Can only go by what you read. Like Monarchs point that players magically rise to the occasion.

I work in real estate. The extent of my stats knoweldge is all the stats classes at OdU and reading on the internet.

Jesus. You claim to have played sports at a reasonably high level and you do t believe that certain players perform better in big moments? Step away from the Stat sheet and watch a few games... Any sport will do.

Sent from my Pixel C using Tapatalk

I did. And still understand sample size.

Do you understand that regular season statistics include the fact that a player does not play with 100% focus and effort for every minute of an 80+ game season? Do they account for the fact that opponents do not play defense at the same level during the regular season as they do in the playoffs? Do they account for the pressure of making a big shot when the season is on the? The increased effort of defenses in the final minutes of a close game in the finals? It is so insane that you are unwilling to recognize all the circumstances that exist in real world sports that to some extent invalidate your large sample size stats.