Wait a minute?

So our target market for someone to replace one of the top coaches in the history of baseball because for the first time in a quarter century he didn't make the post-season, is a coach who didn't make the post season?

If that's the plan, then it better be Berkman WITH Pettit and then include someone like Pope AND Hallmark... At least that way we'd get some detailed college experience to go along with the 'splash' and potential.

(05-28-2018 08:51 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  Wait a minute?

So our target market for someone to replace one of the top coaches in the history of baseball because for the first time in a quarter century he didn't make the post-season, is a coach who didn't make the post season?

If that's the plan, then it better be Berkman WITH Pettit and then include someone like Pope AND Hallmark... At least that way we'd get some detailed college experience to go along with the 'splash' and potential.

Well I think its disingenuous to suggest that making the post-season from the Southland is as easy as from Rice. Not only are the conference opponents worse, they don't have the scheduling "capital" that Rice does in the non-conference not to mention facilities, assistant salaries, etc...

Take Matt Riser for example:

2014: 38-25 (18-12 in the Southland), NCAA Regional
2015: 42-17 (25-5 in the Southland), No Postseason
2016: 40-21 (22-8 in the Southland), NCAA Regional
2017: 37-22 (20-10 in the Southland), NCAA Regional
2018: 37-22 (21-9 in the Southland), No Postseason

Any of those seasons get you in the postseason from Rice given the schedules we play.

Assuming we can't hire the coach of a current top 20 program (which we can't unless we start offering Mississippi State type money), that's the type of college candidate that's going to be in our wheelhouse.

I am in agreement with a couple of posters from a previous thread regarding the head coach at San Jac. According to their website he will enter the NJCAA Hall of Fame this year. He has 11 trips to the World Series in 18 seasons with 6 of those trips ending up on the losing end in the title game. He has a .712 winning percentage. Could it work out twice? He is certainly worthy of a long hard look, IMHO.

I'm not in the inner circle and frankly haven't spent a lot of time thinking about this, but the two guys that I really like are Heefner from DBU and Riser from SELA.

Things I care about:
1. Proven record of winning
2. Ties to Texas are helpful
3. Some level of "understanding" Rice and the challenges we face due to academics
4. Analytics capabilities or at least the recognition that they're important - because we need to find some competitive advantage. Others have passed us on facilities and potentially even on reputation and track record.

(05-28-2018 04:37 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Unlike the rest of you, I don’t have a say in the hiring. So I will just wait and support whoever it is to the best of my abilities.

Good luck to all y’all in your search.

No sweat, PassiveAggressive Owl! Us $250 Owl Club donors will choose a coach that allows you to whine to your heart’s content!

(05-28-2018 09:07 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  Well I think its disingenuous to suggest that making the post-season from the Southland is as easy as from Rice. Not only are the conference opponents worse, they don't have the scheduling "capital" that Rice does in the non-conference not to mention facilities, assistant salaries, etc...

Take Matt Riser for example:

2014: 38-25 (18-12 in the Southland), NCAA Regional
2015: 42-17 (25-5 in the Southland), No Postseason
2016: 40-21 (22-8 in the Southland), NCAA Regional
2017: 37-22 (20-10 in the Southland), NCAA Regional
2018: 37-22 (21-9 in the Southland), No Postseason

Any of those seasons get you in the postseason from Rice given the schedules we play.

Assuming we can't hire the coach of a current top 20 program (which we can't unless we start offering Mississippi State type money), that's the type of college candidate that's going to be in our wheelhouse.

I’m pretty sure Hambone was referring to Berkman.

Riser seems like a legitimate candidate, maybe even the best available candidate, but does it matter that his records from SELA, if achieved at Rice, would be enough to consistently make the tournament? How many coaches move to higher levels of competition without their record dropping? And aren’t our sights set a bit higher than just making the tournament?

(05-28-2018 10:05 PM)wheredidmypantsgo Wrote:  I'm not in the inner circle and frankly haven't spent a lot of time thinking about this, but the two guys that I really like are Heefner from DBU and Riser from SELA.

Things I care about:
1. Proven record of winning
2. Ties to Texas are helpful
3. Some level of "understanding" Rice and the challenges we face due to academics
4. Analytics capabilities or at least the recognition that they're important - because we need to find some competitive advantage. Others have passed us on facilities and potentially even on reputation and track record.

Agree on all points. I'd also add someone who is a stickler for fundamentals. As I've stated before, my top two choices are Saarloos and Riser. Saarloos because he's a proven recruiter, brings MLB experience and is perceived as an elite pitching coach. I'd love to see what he can do with Canterino, Moss, Jefferies, Garcia, Acker and Gayle, in particular. I love, love, love Riser's ultra-aggressive style of play.

(05-28-2018 10:09 PM)westsidewolf1989 Wrote:  

(05-28-2018 04:37 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Unlike the rest of you, I don’t have a say in the hiring. So I will just wait and support whoever it is to the best of my abilities.

Good luck to all y’all in your search.

No sweat, PassiveAggressive Owl! Us $250 Owl Club donors will choose a coach that allows you to whine to your heart’s content!

This $500 ( formerly $1000) Owl Club donor has no say and no pull. How do you do it, AggresivelySarcasticOwl?

In plain language, I think few of us have any pull, except for you, so how do you plan to manage the hiring?

And whine about what? It would help if you would post some examples. I supported Wayne, I have not called for any coach to be fired, and I am withholding judgement on Bloom until we get some actual results. What is your problem with that?

(05-28-2018 10:38 PM)Gravy Owl Wrote:  

(05-28-2018 09:07 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  Well I think its disingenuous to suggest that making the post-season from the Southland is as easy as from Rice. Not only are the conference opponents worse, they don't have the scheduling "capital" that Rice does in the non-conference not to mention facilities, assistant salaries, etc...

Take Matt Riser for example:

2014: 38-25 (18-12 in the Southland), NCAA Regional
2015: 42-17 (25-5 in the Southland), No Postseason
2016: 40-21 (22-8 in the Southland), NCAA Regional
2017: 37-22 (20-10 in the Southland), NCAA Regional
2018: 37-22 (21-9 in the Southland), No Postseason

Any of those seasons get you in the postseason from Rice given the schedules we play.

Assuming we can't hire the coach of a current top 20 program (which we can't unless we start offering Mississippi State type money), that's the type of college candidate that's going to be in our wheelhouse.

I’m pretty sure Hambone was referring to Berkman.

Riser seems like a legitimate candidate, maybe even the best available candidate, but does it matter that his records from SELA, if achieved at Rice, would be enough to consistently make the tournament? How many coaches move to higher levels of competition without their record dropping? And aren’t our sights set a bit higher than just making the tournament?

That'd be one way to look at it...

The other side of the same token would be:

-If you're winning 40+ games with the non-conference schedule that Rice plays (and has scheduled for the next couple years with series against OU, UT, and Tech just to name a few), you're hosting. That gives you a huge leg up on advancing in the tournament.
-The question on record dropping would be require more thorough data analysis while controlling for variables like resources, conference RPI, non-conference SoS, etc... Keep in mind Riser is currently coaching at a glorified JuCo (makes UH look like Harvard) that even with TOPS money, probably has the 6-7th most resources in one of the poorest states in the country with a population less than 5 million. A real argument can be made that over the last 4-5 years, SeLA has been the 2nd best program in Louisiana (ULL has faded IMO) while having less to work with than LSU, ULL, Tulane, LA Tech, ULM, and about the same as Nicholls, Northwestern St, McNeese, UNO, etc.

The real con to Berkman is he does not have enough college coaching experience.

(05-28-2018 12:48 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  Also another con to Berkman: His team this year was under .500.

(05-28-2018 08:51 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  Wait a minute?

So our target market for someone to replace one of the top coaches in the history of baseball because for the first time in a quarter century he didn't make the post-season, is a coach who didn't make the post season?

If that's the plan, then it better be Berkman WITH Pettit and then include someone like Pope AND Hallmark... At least that way we'd get some detailed college experience to go along with the 'splash' and potential.

My thoughts exactly re hiring and siging someone w/in 10-14 days implies ( or at least I infer) that they did not work w a team in the playoffs. Not exactly a big selling point, though admittedly, only a snapshot.
Based on JK's hiring record, I expect n assistant at a top program, hopefully one to broaden recruiting as we've seen in WBB, and now w Bloomgren

(05-29-2018 01:43 AM)HawaiiOwl Wrote:  

(05-28-2018 08:51 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  Wait a minute?

So our target market for someone to replace one of the top coaches in the history of baseball because for the first time in a quarter century he didn't make the post-season, is a coach who didn't make the post season?

If that's the plan, then it better be Berkman WITH Pettit and then include someone like Pope AND Hallmark... At least that way we'd get some detailed college experience to go along with the 'splash' and potential.

My thoughts exactly re hiring and siging someone w/in 10-14 days implies ( or at least I infer) that they did not work w a team in the playoffs. Not exactly a big selling point, though admittedly, only a snapshot.
Based on JK's hiring record, I expect n assistant at a top program, hopefully one to broaden recruiting as we've seen in WBB, and now w Bloomgren

We don’t need to BROADEN recruiting. We need to get the LOCAL talent and keep the dirty purple, red/black, burnt orange, and maroon hands off of them. Houston area is LOADED with talent.

Pro Berkman

Yesterday consulted former Astro (and Rice one-year volunteer coach) Dickie Thon: "...Berkman excellent...".

Good enough for me!

(05-28-2018 08:51 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  Wait a minute?

So our target market for someone to replace one of the top coaches in the history of baseball because for the first time in a quarter century he didn't make the post-season, is a coach who didn't make the post season?

If that's the plan, then it better be Berkman WITH Pettit and then include someone like Pope AND Hallmark... At least that way we'd get some detailed college experience to go along with the 'splash' and potential.

I think it's disingenuous to suggest that the OG not making the post-season this year is the reason we decided not to renew his contract.

We've been on a steady decline for almost a decade now, as unfortunate as it is to say it, his age is now a negative for incoming recruits, and as others have alluded to, it seems as if our current players are not connecting with him as well as others used to.

College baseball has seen at least three long-time coaches step down this year (Rice, Miami, UCI). Of those three, two decided to step down because they recognized that their time had come. While we will all owe Wayne a debt forever, I do think he was a year or two late on realizing that all good things must come to an end and the torch needed to be passed.

Even the best can't be the best for forever.

(05-29-2018 09:42 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(05-28-2018 08:51 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  Wait a minute?

So our target market for someone to replace one of the top coaches in the history of baseball because for the first time in a quarter century he didn't make the post-season, is a coach who didn't make the post season?

If that's the plan, then it better be Berkman WITH Pettit and then include someone like Pope AND Hallmark... At least that way we'd get some detailed college experience to go along with the 'splash' and potential.

I think it's disingenuous to suggest that the OG not making the post-season this year is the reason we decided not to renew his contract.

We've been on a steady decline for almost a decade now, as unfortunate as it is to say it, his age is now a negative for incoming recruits, and as others have alluded to, it seems as if our current players are not connecting with him as well as others used to.

College baseball has seen at least three long-time coaches step down this year (Rice, Miami, UCI). Of those three, two decided to step down because they recognized that their time had come. While we will all owe Wayne a debt forever, I do think he was a year or two late on realizing that all good things must come to an end and the torch needed to be passed.

Even the best can't be the best for forever.

Again, for the umteenth time, most of us agree it was time for a transition. The odious way the contract situation was handled is what's causing the uproar.

(05-29-2018 08:44 AM)Viejobuho Wrote:  Pro Berkman

Yesterday consulted former Astro (and Rice one-year volunteer coach) Dickie Thon: "...Berkman excellent...".

Good enough for me!

Not good enough for me. Since HC's wear the university's uniform, they need to project the right image, including being judicious about voicing personal political views. I'm not sure he knows when to shut his mouth. Who one wants to hire a PR headache?

He has said he really wants to be a preacher. Why doesn't he just go do that?

(05-29-2018 09:45 AM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  

(05-29-2018 09:42 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(05-28-2018 08:51 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  Wait a minute?

So our target market for someone to replace one of the top coaches in the history of baseball because for the first time in a quarter century he didn't make the post-season, is a coach who didn't make the post season?

If that's the plan, then it better be Berkman WITH Pettit and then include someone like Pope AND Hallmark... At least that way we'd get some detailed college experience to go along with the 'splash' and potential.

I think it's disingenuous to suggest that the OG not making the post-season this year is the reason we decided not to renew his contract.

We've been on a steady decline for almost a decade now, as unfortunate as it is to say it, his age is now a negative for incoming recruits, and as others have alluded to, it seems as if our current players are not connecting with him as well as others used to.

College baseball has seen at least three long-time coaches step down this year (Rice, Miami, UCI). Of those three, two decided to step down because they recognized that their time had come. While we will all owe Wayne a debt forever, I do think he was a year or two late on realizing that all good things must come to an end and the torch needed to be passed.

Even the best can't be the best for forever.

Again, for the umteenth time, most of us agree it was time for a transition. The odious way the contract situation was handled is what's causing the uproar.

Yep, which is why I wanted to make it clear to Ham that it was not the OG's first miss at post-season play that caused the transition.

I do wonder how the OG's relationship with Rice as a whole will be after this bungle. Have we effectively burned this bridge?

Is it unrealistic for the Head Coach hire to bring Berkman and/or Pettite as an Asst Coach?

(05-29-2018 10:43 AM)Intellectual_Brutality Wrote:  Is it unrealistic for the Head Coach hire to bring Berkman and/or Pettite as an Asst Coach?

As I said in a previous post on another thread, Berkman and Saarloos are friends (from their days together on the Astros), and I have heard that Lance has already spoken to Saarloos, should he get the head coaching job, of his interest in coming on as a volunteer assistant and hitting coach. Why does anyone thing Pettite has any desire to be a full-time college assistant coach?

While it is fun to read these post, none of the statements are remotely accurate