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UCDavis adds beach volleyball and equestrian
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ken d Offline
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Post: #21
RE: UCDavis adds beach volleyball and equestrian
(04-16-2018 10:06 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  
(04-14-2018 06:04 AM)NoDak Wrote:  Equestrian hasn’t had an addition for seemingly years.

Who owns the horse?

Equestrian couldn't possibly be a cheap sport to fund.

Is it against NCAA rules for a booster to buy a meal for the horse? Or just the rider?
04-16-2018 11:38 AM
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dbackjon Offline
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Post: #22
RE: UCDavis adds beach volleyball and equestrian
So a traditionally heavily male school (because of the emphasis on agriculture) has more femaies attending. They are out of compliance with Title IX. They need to add sports.

Beach Volleyball is very popular in the area/conference. No brainer.

UC-Davis is an ag school. Already has intramural/club equestrian teams. AND a 25-acre equestrian center : https://cru.ucdavis.edu/content/64-eques...enter-.htm Again, a no brainer.

Occam's Razor folks.

this has zero to do with conference movement, FBS football or anything other than logical sports to add.
04-16-2018 11:51 AM
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Stugray2 Offline
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Post: #23
RE: UCDavis adds beach volleyball and equestrian
It's Title IX related.

It has mostly to do with the continuing trend in the US where liberal arts (LA) are increasingly dominated by women and 50% more women are attending schools than men, especially at LA heavy schools. The growth in UCs has primarily not been in STEM but LA, hence the gender shift. Also CA high impact standards result in a skew toward female due to girls typically having higher HS GPA, yet nearly identical SAT (maturity issue IMO with males -- they need a few more years to focus on average). It's a number of reasons, but a national trend.

IMO we have a major problem with boys, many are being lost in the transition to college and future higher paying jobs. But this skew is not even being discussed. (This is an example of a social issue where our politics are 30 years out of date, and it's not even noticed beyond demographers. Even as colleges are scrambling to adjust and athletic departments the most visible impact for the common Joe ... "why is my school dropping baseball and adding woemn's lacrosse?")
04-16-2018 12:57 PM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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Post: #24
RE: UCDavis adds beach volleyball and equestrian
(04-16-2018 11:38 AM)ken d Wrote:  
(04-16-2018 10:06 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  
(04-14-2018 06:04 AM)NoDak Wrote:  Equestrian hasn’t had an addition for seemingly years.

Who owns the horse?

Equestrian couldn't possibly be a cheap sport to fund.

Is it against NCAA rules for a booster to buy a meal for the horse? Or just the rider?

This opens a whole new world of questions for me?:

If the horse is a filly does she count towards title IX? How do you count a gelding?--half a male athlete?

What requirements must the horse meet for admission? Do they let horses get degrees in humanities?
04-16-2018 05:02 PM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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Post: #25
RE: UCDavis adds beach volleyball and equestrian
The fact that UC San Diego got in on the second go around with Cal St Bakersfield in tow doesn't necessarily mean UC Davis and Cal Poly plans to leave, it just means that in the interim someone was convinced to change their vote.
04-16-2018 05:12 PM
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Lord Stanley Offline
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Post: #26
RE: UCDavis adds beach volleyball and equestrian
(04-16-2018 05:02 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  If the horse is a filly does she count towards title IX? How do you count a gelding?--half a male athlete?

What happens if the horse is no good, does the athlete get a new horse like they would a new pair of shoes, or a bat?

This is much more involved than I thought.
04-16-2018 05:16 PM
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loki_the_bubba Offline
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Post: #27
RE: UCDavis adds beach volleyball and equestrian
(04-16-2018 05:02 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  
(04-16-2018 11:38 AM)ken d Wrote:  
(04-16-2018 10:06 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  
(04-14-2018 06:04 AM)NoDak Wrote:  Equestrian hasn’t had an addition for seemingly years.

Who owns the horse?

Equestrian couldn't possibly be a cheap sport to fund.

Is it against NCAA rules for a booster to buy a meal for the horse? Or just the rider?

This opens a whole new world of questions for me?:

If the horse is a filly does she count towards title IX? How do you count a gelding?--half a male athlete?

What requirements must the horse meet for admission? Do they let horses get degrees in humanities?
Can you grey shirt a horse?
What are the transfer rules?


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04-16-2018 05:30 PM
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NoDak Offline
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Post: #28
RE: UCDavis adds beach volleyball and equestrian
College equestrian is not like competive equestrian, as horses do not travel. A jockey has to pick a horse from a group that the “home” team provides. Never bothered to look up the rules, but that’s what’s been told. The “sport”attracts serious horse lovers that are reasonably in shape but is not a Jr circuit by any stretch.

Land grant schools often have horse barns on campus, so they are the majority of equestrian schools. Most of the jockey “athletes” have to put serious time in at the horse barn to clean their stalls, excercise the horses, and feed and groom them, so the u save considerable money be avoiding paying help.
04-16-2018 05:46 PM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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Post: #29
RE: UCDavis adds beach volleyball and equestrian
(04-16-2018 05:16 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  
(04-16-2018 05:02 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  If the horse is a filly does she count towards title IX? How do you count a gelding?--half a male athlete?

What happens if the horse is no good, does the athlete get a new horse like they would a new pair of shoes, or a bat?

This is much more involved than I thought.

Since you mentioned shoes--is there enough room on a horse shoe for a Nike swoosh or some adidas stripes?
(This post was last modified: 04-16-2018 07:27 PM by Fighting Muskie.)
04-16-2018 05:52 PM
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NoDak Offline
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Post: #30
RE: UCDavis adds beach volleyball and equestrian
(04-16-2018 05:12 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  The fact that UC San Diego got in on the second go around with Cal St Bakersfield in tow doesn't necessarily mean UC Davis and Cal Poly plans to leave, it just means that in the interim someone was convinced to change their vote.

And why the delay in accepting them? UCSD and Bake don’t start competing in the Big West until 2020.

Why was Sacramento St not selected? Sac St academics are higher than Bake and SAC has many more students and a bigger media area and is a rival and could be a travel partner for UCDavis.

Logic often isn’t used in California, but a money and status issue among Presidents usually forces logic upon them.
04-16-2018 05:53 PM
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dbackjon Offline
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Post: #31
RE: UCDavis adds beach volleyball and equestrian
(04-16-2018 05:53 PM)NoDak Wrote:  
(04-16-2018 05:12 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  The fact that UC San Diego got in on the second go around with Cal St Bakersfield in tow doesn't necessarily mean UC Davis and Cal Poly plans to leave, it just means that in the interim someone was convinced to change their vote.

And why the delay in accepting them? UCSD and Bake don’t start competing in the Big West until 2020.

Why was Sacramento St not selected? Sac St academics are higher than Bake and SAC has many more students and a bigger media area and is a rival and could be a travel partner for UCDavis.

Logic often isn’t used in California, but a money and status issue among Presidents usually forces logic upon them.

1) To give UCSD time to successfully plan the transition, and to not leave the WAC completely wacked
2) Sacramento State isn't interested.
04-16-2018 05:57 PM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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Post: #32
RE: UCDavis adds beach volleyball and equestrian
(04-16-2018 05:30 PM)loki_the_bubba Wrote:  
(04-16-2018 05:02 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  
(04-16-2018 11:38 AM)ken d Wrote:  
(04-16-2018 10:06 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  
(04-14-2018 06:04 AM)NoDak Wrote:  Equestrian hasn’t had an addition for seemingly years.

Who owns the horse?

Equestrian couldn't possibly be a cheap sport to fund.

Is it against NCAA rules for a booster to buy a meal for the horse? Or just the rider?

This opens a whole new world of questions for me?:

If the horse is a filly does she count towards title IX? How do you count a gelding?--half a male athlete?

What requirements must the horse meet for admission? Do they let horses get degrees in humanities?
Can you grey shirt a horse?
What are the transfer rules?


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using CSNbbs mobile app

In horse RACING you can put all sorts of colored shirts on the horse so I'm guessing grey is admissible.

Transferring I'm not so sure about--I don't think schools want the reputation of being horse traders when it comes to their athletes.

What sways a horse to a particular school? Quality of barns? Meal plan?

What kind of carrot can a coach use to recruit? if said carrot is an actual carrot is it an inappropriate benefit? If the horse ever competed for money are they ruled ineligible since they've lost their amateur status?
04-16-2018 06:03 PM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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Post: #33
RE: UCDavis adds beach volleyball and equestrian
(04-16-2018 05:53 PM)NoDak Wrote:  
(04-16-2018 05:12 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  The fact that UC San Diego got in on the second go around with Cal St Bakersfield in tow doesn't necessarily mean UC Davis and Cal Poly plans to leave, it just means that in the interim someone was convinced to change their vote.

And why the delay in accepting them? UCSD and Bake don’t start competing in the Big West until 2020.

Why was Sacramento St not selected? Sac St academics are higher than Bake and SAC has many more students and a bigger media area and is a rival and could be a travel partner for UCDavis.

Logic often isn’t used in California, but a money and status issue among Presidents usually forces logic upon them.

I think the delay is to allow UCSD time to transition and the WAC time to prepare for life after Cal St Bakersfield is gone. The Big West isn't heartless. I don't think they want the WAC to lose their conference status.

Regarding Sacramento St I think the reason they weren't included is the Big Sky was playing hard ball with them and not willing to give them affiliate status like the her two Cali schools.

Would I like to see all 3 California Big Sky schools be FBS in a rebooted WAC football? Yes. But I don't think it's in the cards.
04-16-2018 06:31 PM
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NoDak Offline
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Post: #34
RE: UCDavis adds beach volleyball and equestrian
(04-16-2018 06:31 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  
(04-16-2018 05:53 PM)NoDak Wrote:  
(04-16-2018 05:12 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  The fact that UC San Diego got in on the second go around with Cal St Bakersfield in tow doesn't necessarily mean UC Davis and Cal Poly plans to leave, it just means that in the interim someone was convinced to change their vote.

And why the delay in accepting them? UCSD and Bake don’t start competing in the Big West until 2020.

Why was Sacramento St not selected? Sac St academics are higher than Bake and SAC has many more students and a bigger media area and is a rival and could be a travel partner for UCDavis.

Logic often isn’t used in California, but a money and status issue among Presidents usually forces logic upon them.

I think the delay is to allow UCSD time to transition and the WAC time to prepare for life after Cal St Bakersfield is gone. The Big West isn't heartless. I don't think they want the WAC to lose their conference status.

Regarding Sacramento St I think the reason they weren't included is the Big Sky was playing hard ball with them and not willing to give them affiliate status like the her two Cali schools.

Would I like to see all 3 California Big Sky schools be FBS in a rebooted WAC football? Yes. But I don't think it's in the cards.
If the Big West was concerned about the WAC, they wouldn’t take them for six years DII to DI transitions take time. Losing Bake and Chicago St could put the WAC under.

The Big Sky still is bloated with too many teams. Can’t get a round robin in for many sports. Sac St if they put their foot down could get the same deal as UCDavis and Cal Poly have in football. But if there leaving for the WAC, it doesn’t matter.

Those three California schools have had seven years to get prepared for a new FBS WAC. The Big Sky offered them initially because UCDavis and Cal Poly could have gone to the WAC then, but all parties except NMSU and Idaho preferred not to rush into it. The WAC wasn’t a party to the CFP contract, so best just wait until before the next one.
04-16-2018 07:14 PM
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NoDak Offline
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Post: #35
RE: UCDavis adds beach volleyball and equestrian
Here is an article on the difference between NCAA and IHSA (International Show Horse Association) club teams. Didn’t realize Stanford has an NCAA team in equestrian too.

https://theplaidhorse.com/2017/06/17/col...a-vs-ihsa/
(This post was last modified: 04-16-2018 07:18 PM by NoDak.)
04-16-2018 07:17 PM
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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Post: #36
RE: UCDavis adds beach volleyball and equestrian
(04-14-2018 08:03 AM)NoDak Wrote:  
(04-14-2018 08:00 AM)jhn31 Wrote:  Long term goal is Pac-12, I assume?

One of the few schools that can truly aspire that high.

Circling back to this one...sure, I guess.

Then again, if Rice and Tulane really committed to athletic success, they'd be in a major conference by now. The Service Academies...even with their unique missions, probably would have no true resistance going somewhere else.

You have others out there with significant potential...Buffalo, Stony Brook...UCD is no different, even if they are loaded.

I could see a big fuss over their advancement, though, especially from the Cal State schools, like SDSU. Like, why SDSU has to wander through the wilderness while UCD just has to spend to be notice? It's not like Cal State schools are trash...and SDSU turns more people down than some of the good public schools back east here.

What UCD has to actually do is run a competitive and big athletic department. It's one thing to have these sports...you have to win, too.
(This post was last modified: 04-17-2018 02:39 PM by The Cutter of Bish.)
04-17-2018 02:37 PM
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NoDak Offline
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Post: #37
RE: UCDavis adds beach volleyball and equestrian
(04-17-2018 02:37 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  
(04-14-2018 08:03 AM)NoDak Wrote:  
(04-14-2018 08:00 AM)jhn31 Wrote:  Long term goal is Pac-12, I assume?

One of the few schools that can truly aspire that high.

Circling back to this one...sure, I guess.

Then again, if Rice and Tulane really committed to athletic success, they'd be in a major conference by now. The Service Academies...even with their unique missions, probably would have no true resistance going somewhere else.

You have others out there with significant potential...Buffalo, Stony Brook...UCD is no different, even if they are loaded.

I could see a big fuss over their advancement, though, especially from the Cal State schools, like SDSU. Like, why SDSU has to wander through the wilderness while UCD just has to spend to be notice? It's not like Cal State schools are trash...and SDSU turns more people down than some of the good public schools back east here.

What UCD has to actually do is run a competitive and big athletic department. It's one thing to have these sports...you have to win, too.

Legacy means a lot to P5. Perhaps am too optimistic on UCDavis. But both Tulane and Rice have blown their legacy, especially Tulane. Rice could have gone the route of TCU but chose not to.

Buffalo and Stony Brook (and UCDavis) should be at least high G5, but other sports the NY schools are lacking like lacrosse and ice hockey can be a rallying point locally.
04-17-2018 04:05 PM
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jdgaucho Offline
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Post: #38
RE: UCDavis adds beach volleyball and equestrian
http://gogriz.com/news/2010/9/7/Cal_Poly...h=football

"We worked in cooperation with Big West Conference Commissioner Dennis Farrell," Fullerton added. "The Big West fully supports this effort, as it gives its two football-playing members a home."


As NoDak pointed out, the Big Sky adding UC Davis and Cal Poly football was to prevent them (and the Montana's, maybe?) from possibly joining an FBS WAC. Here's the kicker: Big West Commissioner Farrell gave his blessing for the arrangement as it kept them around for all other sports.

So why was Cal State Bakersfield packaged with UC San Diego instead of Sac State? Simple. In exchange for the BSC providing UCD and Cal Poly with a football home, the BW likely promised not to go after Sac State. While there is nothing stating a gentleman's agreement between the two conferences, I do think one was reached.
(This post was last modified: 04-17-2018 06:07 PM by jdgaucho.)
04-17-2018 06:03 PM
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jdgaucho Offline
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Post: #39
RE: UCDavis adds beach volleyball and equestrian
Reason #2 why no Sac State: The BW doesn't want to bring back football.

For an autobid to the NCAA Tournament, a six team FCS Big West would require all three California schools, plus at least one non-CA school joining as a full member, and two other fb-only affiliates.
(This post was last modified: 04-17-2018 06:08 PM by jdgaucho.)
04-17-2018 06:07 PM
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NoDak Offline
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Post: #40
RE: UCDavis adds beach volleyball and equestrian
(04-17-2018 06:03 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  http://gogriz.com/news/2010/9/7/Cal_Poly...h=football

"We worked in cooperation with Big West Conference Commissioner Dennis Farrell," Fullerton added. "The Big West fully supports this effort, as it gives its two football-playing members a home."


As NoDak pointed out, the Big Sky adding UC Davis and Cal Poly football was to prevent them (and the Montana's, maybe?) from possibly joining an FBS WAC. Here's the kicker: Big West Commissioner Farrell gave his blessing for the arrangement as it kept them around for all other sports.

So why was Cal State Bakersfield packaged with UC San Diego instead of Sac State? Simple. In exchange for the BSC providing UCD and Cal Poly with a football home, the BW likely promised not to go after Sac State. While there is nothing stating a gentleman's agreement between the two conferences, I do think one was reached.

There is universal agreement among nearly all posters that a gentleman’s agreement exists between the Big West and Sacramento St et al when not one has never surfaced, but yet talk of those same schools going FBS, which there has been internal talk of of (google search), is doggedly denied by posters. That seems a remarkable double standard and hypocritical.

WAC 2011: None of the California schools were ready for FBS and California had serious budget shortfalls. The Montana’s were not ready but have made considerable progress since. Granted more is needed.

2020: Some California fb schools need a stadium expansion for FBS, but sports expansions are obviously possible now as proven by UCDavis. The Montana’s need sports expansion, not stadium improvement immediately. NMSU needs Texas school presence in a new FBS WAC, and the Montana’s are opposed to it. Montana and Idaho had in 2011 pursued another strategy with similar sized schools to go FBS with. The new WAC and the Montana et al will still cross schedule
(This post was last modified: 04-17-2018 09:33 PM by NoDak.)
04-17-2018 06:44 PM
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