(04-16-2018 10:54 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(04-16-2018 10:45 AM)Wedge Wrote:  

(04-16-2018 10:27 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(04-16-2018 09:40 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(04-16-2018 08:34 AM)bullet Wrote:  And the logical conference to split would be the ACC... But they have GORs to 2036.

...and a license to hunt!

Which should scare the crap out of you because when Swofford has gone hunting he's typically looked like this:



and been about as successful.

I think Swofford has done a good job. It's easy to be Delany, or Slive when he was the SEC commissioner; that's like sitting at a poker table with a hand of aces over kings. Of course you look like a good poker player when you always have hands like that. Swofford has sat down at the table with just a pair of fours in his hand and done pretty well considering that. It's not like Alabama or Ohio State was ever going to join the ACC.

Easy for you to say. Being the only game in town on the left coast makes it to where you aren't competing on a daily basis with two 800lb gorillas. Swofford made it where we were trying to do that with one hand tied behind out back so his son could keep his job, and when time came to add value we added two schools with low ceilings and the unwanted sports programs of another. It was only after a revolt that any real athletic value was added to this conference.

Kap when you analyze what ESPN has purchased and holds already ignore conference boundaries and look at the regions and states within them which are included for the AAC, Ivy, ACC, & SEC. Then look at the Big 12. Everything from the Rio Grande up the Chisolm and Sedalia trails across from Kansas through Kentucky and into to Virginia inclusive of the entire Southeast and the Atlantic Seaboard would belong to ESPN if they land the Big 12 properties.

ESPN isn't cutting the ACC loose, especially not now. Considering that Northern ACC (with N.D.) puts them in most Northern cities from Philadelphia to Chicago and up to Detroit nobody is in a better position to sell both cable and a complimentary streaming app for College sports than ESPN. That is the marriage of two large and growing markets (Southwest & Southeast / Atlantic Coast) to two of the top 3 most rabid fan bases with at least a 45% stake in the 2nd most rabid fan base.

If ESPN parsed the Big 12 between the ACC and SEC, or even between those two and the Big 10 they walk away from the table with access to the schools with the fans that would not only hold their linear packages, but would be the most likely to add ESPN Plus. And that's what they are business for. What's more if advertisers want to reach those demographics they really have no other option but to pay ESPN. And that's the name of this game.

If the PAC goes along well good. If not, nobody looses any sleep over it in Bristol.

So the SEC/ACC aren't going anywhere, but we could be used to grow the reach and hold of ESPN over the most profitable college sports regions of the nation.

Even the West coast Tech companies are now saying that some kinds of rights plunge could be coming within the next 2 years (but so far they are looking more toward pro sports). When all the players are this jumpy and ESPN has the ability to sew up much of it prior to the expiration of the GOR, you better believe they are looking at how best to do it.

I think if ESPN bets on college sports they'll be the big winner. College fans are for life, Pro fans are more fickle. College fans stick with the school when things are tight. Pro fans don't do that as much.

JR, with John Swofford at the helm I have zero faith that even if ESPN were to pick apart the Big XII for it's partners that we would get anything of value. It would be typical Swofford if we ended up with the two Kansas schools, Iowa State, Baylor and Texas Tech. From his bungling of expansion to his forced marriage to Raycom (which will continue to haunt us as they are evidently serving a role in the ACC Network and rest assured their part of the pie wasn't cut from ESPN's share) to his mediocre TV rights deal to the God awful Orange Bowl deal when we held all the cards to his even worse bowl agreements there is absolutely nothing in his past that says he is capable of negotiating a solid deal for the ACC.

(04-16-2018 12:13 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  JR, with John Swofford at the helm I have zero faith that even if ESPN were to pick apart the Big XII for it's partners that we would get anything of value. It would be typical Swofford if we ended up with the two Kansas schools, Iowa State, Baylor and Texas Tech. From his bungling of expansion to his forced marriage to Raycom (which will continue to haunt us as they are evidently serving a role in the ACC Network and rest assured their part of the pie wasn't cut from ESPN's share) to his mediocre TV rights deal to the God awful Orange Bowl deal when we held all the cards to his even worse bowl agreements there is absolutely nothing in his past that says he is capable of negotiating a solid deal for the ACC.

Why do you say Swofford bungled expansion? Under his tenure, the ACC gutted the Big East and scored Notre Dame as a partial member. Even Louisville could be considered more valuable than the school it replaced. No mean feat to me, it seems.

(04-16-2018 12:28 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(04-16-2018 12:13 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  JR, with John Swofford at the helm I have zero faith that even if ESPN were to pick apart the Big XII for it's partners that we would get anything of value. It would be typical Swofford if we ended up with the two Kansas schools, Iowa State, Baylor and Texas Tech. From his bungling of expansion to his forced marriage to Raycom (which will continue to haunt us as they are evidently serving a role in the ACC Network and rest assured their part of the pie wasn't cut from ESPN's share) to his mediocre TV rights deal to the God awful Orange Bowl deal when we held all the cards to his even worse bowl agreements there is absolutely nothing in his past that says he is capable of negotiating a solid deal for the ACC.

Why do you say Swofford bungled expansion? Under his tenure, the ACC gutted the Big East and scored Notre Dame as a partial member. Even Louisville could be considered more valuable than the school it replaced. No mean feat to me, it seems.

Swofford didn't want Louisville, he wanted UConn. Louisville was forced upon him.

Prior to that we added two low ceiling schools, and adding Notre Dame's non-football sports isn't much of an accomplishment.

(04-16-2018 01:12 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(04-16-2018 12:28 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(04-16-2018 12:13 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  JR, with John Swofford at the helm I have zero faith that even if ESPN were to pick apart the Big XII for it's partners that we would get anything of value. It would be typical Swofford if we ended up with the two Kansas schools, Iowa State, Baylor and Texas Tech. From his bungling of expansion to his forced marriage to Raycom (which will continue to haunt us as they are evidently serving a role in the ACC Network and rest assured their part of the pie wasn't cut from ESPN's share) to his mediocre TV rights deal to the God awful Orange Bowl deal when we held all the cards to his even worse bowl agreements there is absolutely nothing in his past that says he is capable of negotiating a solid deal for the ACC.

Why do you say Swofford bungled expansion? Under his tenure, the ACC gutted the Big East and scored Notre Dame as a partial member. Even Louisville could be considered more valuable than the school it replaced. No mean feat to me, it seems.

Swofford didn't want Louisville, he wanted UConn. Louisville was forced upon him.

Prior to that we added two low ceiling schools, and adding Notre Dame's non-football sports isn't much of an accomplishment.

At least Virginia Tech and Miami were worthy adds, no? And getting even 5 games a year out of ND is impressive, I'd think.

(04-16-2018 01:12 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(04-16-2018 12:28 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(04-16-2018 12:13 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  JR, with John Swofford at the helm I have zero faith that even if ESPN were to pick apart the Big XII for it's partners that we would get anything of value. It would be typical Swofford if we ended up with the two Kansas schools, Iowa State, Baylor and Texas Tech. From his bungling of expansion to his forced marriage to Raycom (which will continue to haunt us as they are evidently serving a role in the ACC Network and rest assured their part of the pie wasn't cut from ESPN's share) to his mediocre TV rights deal to the God awful Orange Bowl deal when we held all the cards to his even worse bowl agreements there is absolutely nothing in his past that says he is capable of negotiating a solid deal for the ACC.

Why do you say Swofford bungled expansion? Under his tenure, the ACC gutted the Big East and scored Notre Dame as a partial member. Even Louisville could be considered more valuable than the school it replaced. No mean feat to me, it seems.

Swofford didn't want Louisville, he wanted UConn. Louisville was forced upon him.

Prior to that we added two low ceiling schools, and adding Notre Dame's non-football sports isn't much of an accomplishment.

There are no more Florida State-level football programs available to the ACC.

Do you think that the ACC should have just stopped after adding Miami and Virginia Tech?

Way more fun and shock value when nothing leaks. Hope you’re right.

Maryland to the Big Ten was the best kept realignment secret in recent memory. That came out of NOWHERE.

(04-16-2018 01:24 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(04-16-2018 01:12 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(04-16-2018 12:28 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(04-16-2018 12:13 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  JR, with John Swofford at the helm I have zero faith that even if ESPN were to pick apart the Big XII for it's partners that we would get anything of value. It would be typical Swofford if we ended up with the two Kansas schools, Iowa State, Baylor and Texas Tech. From his bungling of expansion to his forced marriage to Raycom (which will continue to haunt us as they are evidently serving a role in the ACC Network and rest assured their part of the pie wasn't cut from ESPN's share) to his mediocre TV rights deal to the God awful Orange Bowl deal when we held all the cards to his even worse bowl agreements there is absolutely nothing in his past that says he is capable of negotiating a solid deal for the ACC.

Why do you say Swofford bungled expansion? Under his tenure, the ACC gutted the Big East and scored Notre Dame as a partial member. Even Louisville could be considered more valuable than the school it replaced. No mean feat to me, it seems.

Swofford didn't want Louisville, he wanted UConn. Louisville was forced upon him.

Prior to that we added two low ceiling schools, and adding Notre Dame's non-football sports isn't much of an accomplishment.

At least Virginia Tech and Miami were worthy adds, no? And getting even 5 games a year out of ND is impressive, I'd think.

He didn't want Virginia Tech either.

And 2.5 home games a year vs ND isn't worth it. For that they get access to our depleted bowl lineup at the expense of a full member school complete with a full cut of bowl money and we have to send our non-revenue sports to South Bend, like earlier this month when Clemson baseball played on a plastic field in freezing conditions.

(04-16-2018 01:57 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(04-16-2018 01:24 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(04-16-2018 01:12 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(04-16-2018 12:28 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(04-16-2018 12:13 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  JR, with John Swofford at the helm I have zero faith that even if ESPN were to pick apart the Big XII for it's partners that we would get anything of value. It would be typical Swofford if we ended up with the two Kansas schools, Iowa State, Baylor and Texas Tech. From his bungling of expansion to his forced marriage to Raycom (which will continue to haunt us as they are evidently serving a role in the ACC Network and rest assured their part of the pie wasn't cut from ESPN's share) to his mediocre TV rights deal to the God awful Orange Bowl deal when we held all the cards to his even worse bowl agreements there is absolutely nothing in his past that says he is capable of negotiating a solid deal for the ACC.

Why do you say Swofford bungled expansion? Under his tenure, the ACC gutted the Big East and scored Notre Dame as a partial member. Even Louisville could be considered more valuable than the school it replaced. No mean feat to me, it seems.

Swofford didn't want Louisville, he wanted UConn. Louisville was forced upon him.

Prior to that we added two low ceiling schools, and adding Notre Dame's non-football sports isn't much of an accomplishment.

At least Virginia Tech and Miami were worthy adds, no? And getting even 5 games a year out of ND is impressive, I'd think.

He didn't want Virginia Tech either.

And 2.5 home games a year vs ND isn't worth it. For that they get access to our depleted bowl lineup at the expense of a full member school complete with a full cut of bowl money and we have to send our non-revenue sports to South Bend, like earlier this month when Clemson baseball played on a plastic field in freezing conditions.

Interesting. Fair points.

Do you think the ACC should have stopped after adding VT and Miami? Maybe taken Syracuse instead of BC?

(04-16-2018 01:54 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  Way more fun and shock value when nothing leaks. Hope you’re right.

Maryland to the Big Ten was the best kept realignment secret in recent memory. That came out of NOWHERE.

That shocked me mainly because I didn't think they ever would leave the ACC, although as I recall, the news of it being a distinct possibility was out there months prior.

Cheers,
Neil

(04-16-2018 12:13 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  JR, with John Swofford at the helm I have zero faith that even if ESPN were to pick apart the Big XII for it's partners that we would get anything of value. It would be typical Swofford if we ended up with the two Kansas schools, Iowa State, Baylor and Texas Tech. From his bungling of expansion to his forced marriage to Raycom (which will continue to haunt us as they are evidently serving a role in the ACC Network and rest assured their part of the pie wasn't cut from ESPN's share) to his mediocre TV rights deal to the God awful Orange Bowl deal when we held all the cards to his even worse bowl agreements there is absolutely nothing in his past that says he is capable of negotiating a solid deal for the ACC.

The reason the ACC is still standing as a conference is because of Swofford.

(04-16-2018 01:12 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(04-16-2018 12:28 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(04-16-2018 12:13 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  JR, with John Swofford at the helm I have zero faith that even if ESPN were to pick apart the Big XII for it's partners that we would get anything of value. It would be typical Swofford if we ended up with the two Kansas schools, Iowa State, Baylor and Texas Tech. From his bungling of expansion to his forced marriage to Raycom (which will continue to haunt us as they are evidently serving a role in the ACC Network and rest assured their part of the pie wasn't cut from ESPN's share) to his mediocre TV rights deal to the God awful Orange Bowl deal when we held all the cards to his even worse bowl agreements there is absolutely nothing in his past that says he is capable of negotiating a solid deal for the ACC.

Why do you say Swofford bungled expansion? Under his tenure, the ACC gutted the Big East and scored Notre Dame as a partial member. Even Louisville could be considered more valuable than the school it replaced. No mean feat to me, it seems.

Swofford didn't want Louisville, he wanted UConn. Louisville was forced upon him.

Prior to that we added two low ceiling schools, and adding Notre Dame's non-football sports isn't much of an accomplishment.

UNC Chancellor Holden Thorp wanted UConn.
I have never heard or seen written anywhere that said that Swofford preferred UConn to Louisville.
Do you have a link that would confirm or at least lend credence to your accusation?

Even if Uconn was on Swoffords list, he's smart enough to know that after 3 rounds of not getting the votes (2004, 2005, 2011), Uconn goes on the back burner.

If you want to blame Swofford for all those other things then you have to give him credit for one thing - he kept the FSU and Clemson in the ACC and got them to sign multiple GoRs.

(04-16-2018 01:59 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(04-16-2018 01:57 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(04-16-2018 01:24 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(04-16-2018 01:12 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(04-16-2018 12:28 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  Why do you say Swofford bungled expansion? Under his tenure, the ACC gutted the Big East and scored Notre Dame as a partial member. Even Louisville could be considered more valuable than the school it replaced. No mean feat to me, it seems.

Swofford didn't want Louisville, he wanted UConn. Louisville was forced upon him.

Prior to that we added two low ceiling schools, and adding Notre Dame's non-football sports isn't much of an accomplishment.

At least Virginia Tech and Miami were worthy adds, no? And getting even 5 games a year out of ND is impressive, I'd think.

He didn't want Virginia Tech either.

And 2.5 home games a year vs ND isn't worth it. For that they get access to our depleted bowl lineup at the expense of a full member school complete with a full cut of bowl money and we have to send our non-revenue sports to South Bend, like earlier this month when Clemson baseball played on a plastic field in freezing conditions.

Interesting. Fair points.

Do you think the ACC should have stopped after adding VT and Miami? Maybe taken Syracuse instead of BC?

We shouldn't have moved north of Maryland to begin with. There's nothing of value up there in the sport that matters.

(04-16-2018 02:59 PM)XLance Wrote:  The reason the ACC is still standing as a conference is because of Swofford.

For that reason alone he should be hated. Backwards ass, stuck in the 1950's conference.

(04-16-2018 03:07 PM)XLance Wrote:  UNC Chancellor Holden Thorp wanted UConn.
I have never heard or seen written anywhere that said that Swofford preferred UConn to Louisville.
Do you have a link that would confirm or at least lend credence to your accusation?

The word of a Clemson BOT member.

(04-16-2018 03:26 PM)Wolfman Wrote:  Even if Uconn was on Swoffords list, he's smart enough to know that after 3 rounds of not getting the votes (2004, 2005, 2011), Uconn goes on the back burner.

If you want to blame Swofford for all those other things then you have to give him credit for one thing - he kept the FSU and Clemson in the ACC and got them to sign multiple GoRs.

Sadly even Clemson has weak leaders at times. We've rectified that and the BOT will not give current and future presidents as much leeway as they gave Barker.

(04-16-2018 03:55 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(04-16-2018 01:59 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(04-16-2018 01:57 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(04-16-2018 01:24 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(04-16-2018 01:12 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  Swofford didn't want Louisville, he wanted UConn. Louisville was forced upon him.

Prior to that we added two low ceiling schools, and adding Notre Dame's non-football sports isn't much of an accomplishment.

At least Virginia Tech and Miami were worthy adds, no? And getting even 5 games a year out of ND is impressive, I'd think.

He didn't want Virginia Tech either.

And 2.5 home games a year vs ND isn't worth it. For that they get access to our depleted bowl lineup at the expense of a full member school complete with a full cut of bowl money and we have to send our non-revenue sports to South Bend, like earlier this month when Clemson baseball played on a plastic field in freezing conditions.

Interesting. Fair points.

Do you think the ACC should have stopped after adding VT and Miami? Maybe taken Syracuse instead of BC?

We shouldn't have moved north of Maryland to begin with. There's nothing of value up there in the sport that matters.

So who should the ACC have added after VT and Miami to get to 12? Or should they have stayed at 11?

(04-16-2018 03:59 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(04-16-2018 02:59 PM)XLance Wrote:  The reason the ACC is still standing as a conference is because of Swofford.

For that reason alone he should be hated. Backwards ass, stuck in the 1950's conference.

Clemson could easily have gone down with that ship though.

(04-16-2018 02:00 PM)OrangeDude Wrote:  

(04-16-2018 01:54 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  Way more fun and shock value when nothing leaks. Hope you’re right.

Maryland to the Big Ten was the best kept realignment secret in recent memory. That came out of NOWHERE.

That shocked me mainly because I didn't think they ever would leave the ACC, although as I recall, the news of it being a distinct possibility was out there months prior.

Cheers,
Neil

Yeah, I remember hearing rumblings that the Big Ten wanted both Virginia and Maryland.

It did come out of nowhere in the sense that there weren't months and months worth of speculation and innuendo coming from the decision makers; but at the same time, the move wasn't shocking

I seem to recall another conversation where we listed about 5 schools between the ACC and Big 12 that could raise the per school payout of the Big Ten and/or SEC.

I agree that the new model is content driven--you need both quantity and quality.

The trouble with disbanding the Big 12 is you need homes for 8 schools so that someone can make a motion to disband and the votes are there to make it happen. Finding someone willing to take Texas and Oklahoma is easy. Kansas, Oklahoma St, Texas Tech, and WVU are passable if conditions are right and Texas or Oklahoma are part of the deal to sweeten the pot. But who is going to take in 2 of: TCU, Baylor, Iowa St, and Kansas St?

(04-16-2018 04:22 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  

(04-16-2018 03:59 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(04-16-2018 02:59 PM)XLance Wrote:  The reason the ACC is still standing as a conference is because of Swofford.

For that reason alone he should be hated. Backwards ass, stuck in the 1950's conference.

Clemson could easily have gone down with that ship though.

We had a lifeline. It wouldn't have been optimal but we would have been with like-minded institutions.