(02-26-2018 09:28 PM)Gary Miller Wrote:  

(02-26-2018 07:23 PM)bricksnivy Wrote:  I want more Billy Donlon updates.

Mark Byington has Georgia Southern prime for the post season. Don't sleep on them during the Sun Belt Tournament

So no one is interested in the Mark Byington topic. Very sad

Blaming Brownell for what we were left with is a freaking joke. The guy was put in a lame-duck scenario, and forced out in the last year of his contract. What recruit was going to come here knowing the coach had no long-term security whatsoever?

What was Brownell supposed to say to kids he visited under those circumstances? "Look, uh, I know the donors and administration hate me for some reason, and despite doing nothing wrong don't have a new contract yet. But sure, I'll be here the next 4 years. Of course I will."

Blame Rosemary DePaolo, Mike Capaccio, and Kelly Mehrtens for what Benny Moss and then Buzz Peterson walked into. Under Chancellor Leutze and Peg, none of that mess would have ever happened.

Meanwhile, Buzz deserves credit for cleaning up the program from the APR stuff, and leaving it in a better place than he found it. We didn't win under him, but he set the table for Keatts.

We're all in agreement that Keatts did great things here on the court. But he shouldn't be in the "ring of honor" with guys like Wainwright and Brownell.

(02-27-2018 10:35 AM)Seahawk Nation 08 Wrote:  Blaming Brownell for what we were left with is a freaking joke. The guy was put in a lame-duck scenario, and forced out in the last year of his contract. What recruit was going to come here knowing the coach had no long-term security whatsoever?

What was Brownell supposed to say to kids he visited under those circumstances? "Look, uh, I know the donors and administration hate me for some reason, and despite doing nothing wrong don't have a new contract yet. But sure, I'll be here the next 4 years. Of course I will."

Blame Rosemary DePaolo, Mike Capaccio, and Kelly Mehrtens for what Benny Moss and then Buzz Peterson walked into. Under Chancellor Leutze and Peg, none of that mess would have ever happened.

Meanwhile, Buzz deserves credit for cleaning up the program from the APR stuff, and leaving it in a better place than he found it. We didn't win under him, but he set the table for Keatts.

We're all in agreement that Keatts did great things here on the court. But he shouldn't be in the "ring of honor" with guys like Wainwright and Brownell.

You guys seem to have a hard time with facts, and instead prefer to wallow in emotion. I answered a simple question. Were we left in a better situation when Brownell left than when Keatts left? I provided FACTS related to the question. I'm not blaming anyone for anything. If you want to dispute the facts, feel free. But, you cannot claim we were left in a better position when Brownell left vs. Keatts if you look at the facts. Give me some facts to prove i'm wrong. Otherwise, you're just emoting and should maybe get on Oprah.

I even provided facts based on locker room renovation, better housing and flights vs. bus trips, all led by Keatts. And what do I get back? Whining. You also fail to recognize that Keatts motivated donors to support the program where Brownell failed miserably.

Also, there are two sides to every story. There is quite a bit i'm aware of that you may not be aware of based on the treatment of Keatts as he left as well. So let's not pretend we have a good guy v. bad guy situation.

Keatts never treated UNCW as a 2nd. rate school that couldn't compete for recruits or compete against major schools on the court. It's the reason we got the players we got, and the reason we faced UVA and Duke fearlessly in the NCAA. If we want to play against the big boys, we have to be a big boy. And he set about changing our program to compete for the long term. Stuff that will pay dividends for years to come.

This is an interesting discussion. I am not 100% certain where I stand on Keatts' legacy. On the court, I'm certainly appreciative of all that he accomplished and the quality young men he recruited here.

My only complaint regarding the Keatts' praise is the constant comparison between he and McGrath. The reminders that Keatts had a better record his inaugural season, or that Keatts would do better with this team are tiresome. CB inherited different circumstances (we can all agree that the circumstances were different), some better and some worse. If some people have differing opinions on Keatts' legacy, I can live with that. Nation's analogy to an ex-girlfriend seemed to be appropriate. Keatts has moved on. He has a new bride (even if she's ugly as hell) and they seem to happy together.

Tony Sporano said "remember when" is the worst form of flattery. Keatts isn't coming back, and we likely only have 2-3 games left with Talley and Bryan. I'd rather focus on the CAA tournament than "remember when" nostalgia. As much as I was looking forward to analyzing hand sizes and junk worshiping this off season, I hope we can focus on the direction of the program. We have a good group of guys that can be the next piece to our already solid tradition.

(02-27-2018 12:24 PM)82hawk Wrote:  

(02-27-2018 10:35 AM)Seahawk Nation 08 Wrote:  Blaming Brownell for what we were left with is a freaking joke. The guy was put in a lame-duck scenario, and forced out in the last year of his contract. What recruit was going to come here knowing the coach had no long-term security whatsoever?

What was Brownell supposed to say to kids he visited under those circumstances? "Look, uh, I know the donors and administration hate me for some reason, and despite doing nothing wrong don't have a new contract yet. But sure, I'll be here the next 4 years. Of course I will."

Blame Rosemary DePaolo, Mike Capaccio, and Kelly Mehrtens for what Benny Moss and then Buzz Peterson walked into. Under Chancellor Leutze and Peg, none of that mess would have ever happened.

Meanwhile, Buzz deserves credit for cleaning up the program from the APR stuff, and leaving it in a better place than he found it. We didn't win under him, but he set the table for Keatts.

We're all in agreement that Keatts did great things here on the court. But he shouldn't be in the "ring of honor" with guys like Wainwright and Brownell.

Also, there are two sides to every story. There is quite a bit i'm aware of that you may not be aware of based on the treatment of Keatts as he left as well. So let's not pretend we have a good guy v. bad guy situation.

Did you ever stop for a second here and think that maybe some of us are aware of somethings you are not?

in your "facts" comparing the two situations you used CB's recruits to count as depth, that's laughable.

(02-27-2018 12:27 PM)bricksnivy Wrote:  As much as I was looking forward to analyzing hand sizes and junk worshiping this off season

(02-27-2018 12:24 PM)82hawk Wrote:  You guys seem to have a hard time with facts, and instead prefer to wallow in emotion. I answered a simple question. Were we left in a better situation when Brownell left than when Keatts left? I provided FACTS related to the question. I'm not blaming anyone for anything. If you want to dispute the facts, feel free. But, you cannot claim we were left in a better position when Brownell left vs. Keatts if you look at the facts.

Facts without context are meaningless. In a vacuum, yes, we were better off after Keatts than after Brownell. But what are you trying to prove by stating this?

(02-27-2018 12:24 PM)82hawk Wrote:  Also, there are two sides to every story. There is quite a bit i'm aware of that you may not be aware of based on the treatment of Keatts as he left as well. So let's not pretend we have a good guy v. bad guy situation.

Ah, so you're allowed to bring those up. But when I bring up the negatives, you say all that matters are the facts, and call the other stuff whining.

Come on man.

You're right that it's not a simple dichotomy of good vs. bad. I was wrong to say that. Yes, in many ways, Keatts is a good guy. But in the way he left, he did us wrong, and that is the sour note that he left on. That matters, whether you want to admit it or not.

(02-27-2018 10:35 AM)Seahawk Nation 08 Wrote:  We're all in agreement that Keatts did great things here on the court. But he shouldn't be in the "ring of honor" with guys like Wainwright and Brownell.

Wrong.

(02-27-2018 01:06 PM)WingsUp Wrote:  

(02-27-2018 10:35 AM)Seahawk Nation 08 Wrote:  We're all in agreement that Keatts did great things here on the court. But he shouldn't be in the "ring of honor" with guys like Wainwright and Brownell.

Wrong.

What part don't you agree with?

He is on that level. He never coached a season at UNCW where the team finished worse than tied for first place. He transformed the program from a laughing stock to nationally relevant in just 2-3 seasons. I don't have inside athletic dept info like some of you, but I will always be grateful for what he did here. My experience as a UNCW student was greatly enhanced by Coach K.

(02-27-2018 01:16 PM)WingsUp Wrote:  He is on that level. He never coached a season at UNCW where the team finished worse than tied for first place. He transformed the program from a laughing stock to nationally relevant in just 2-3 seasons. I don't have inside athletic dept info like some of you, but I will always be grateful for what he did here. My experience as a UNCW student was greatly enhanced by Coach K.

Those other guys put us on the map, and left us in a pretty decent spot. Brownell likely would have been here for several more years if not for incompetent administration. Last years coach bolted first chance he got.

Sorry, but i've been around for all of them, and i agree with 08

Sorry, but I strongly disagree. But it's water under the bridge now anyways. Heres to hoping we can make a run in Charleston

I don't know what happened as far as what 08 is referring to with Keatts leaving, so I can't address that either way. But I've not seen anyone blame Brownell for what happened in his case. Facts were used as far as comparing him with Keatts taking players with them were concerned. Brownell was done wrong.
Mehrtens was basically an afterthought with what went on. She walked into the program after most of the damage was done. She never had any power to do anything. If she had tried, she would have been shown the door just like Peg was.
The main characters who brought this program down were Capachio, DePaulo and two lawyer/donors. And a few individuals they were able to suck in.
Benny Moss walked into something that was way over his head. His second year team still had the highest APR in program history. The APR problem happened after he was relieved of his duties mid season and the players gave up. He had also recruited a solid player from Word of God school. The kid never made it on campus because Word of God lost it's accreditation, which meant he no longer had the hours to get in. And I'm not sure, but didn't he have the beast who transferred from Wake Forest, only to be caught with a broken pistol in the back floorboard of his car after returning to school after break? So, to me, Benny was a victim of a combination of being over his head as a first time coach and some bad luck.

This is simple to me. I follow and root for Brownell and Clemson when they play anyone except UNCW. I follow and root for Keatts and NCSU when they play anyone except UNCW. I do this only because of their success at UNCW. I want both of them to have a good relationship with UNCW and can see no reason to publicly attack them. Keatts is of interest right now because it's his first season away from UNCW and at NCSU and he's exceeding expectations by any measure. I applaud that and it proves he is who we thought he was.

I'm not hoping he returns like Brownell fans did, I'm just enjoying the success of our coach last year. For the last time, feel free to ignore my updates of his success at NCSU if offends your sensibilities. This board isn't a safe space, sorry.

08 most donors were in brownell court and him leaving caused many donors to drop being in the Seahawk club

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using CSNbbs mobile app

(02-27-2018 02:16 PM)82hawk Wrote:  r. For the last time, feel free to ignore my updates of his success at NCSU if offends your sensibilities. This board isn't a safe space, sorry.

Maybe you should take your own advice, you seem to get offended anytime anyone says anything remotely negative towards your boy, even if some of it IS common sense stuff.

W are getting pub every time State plays. Nothing wrong with that. and it's not negative pub. And I definitely think it's neat that we have had three coaches, including Haith when he was at Miami, to be head coaches in the ACC. We have also had some players go on to be head coaches at various programs, including Calipari.

(02-27-2018 02:19 PM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  

(02-27-2018 02:16 PM)82hawk Wrote:  r. For the last time, feel free to ignore my updates of his success at NCSU if offends your sensibilities. This board isn't a safe space, sorry.

Maybe you should take your own advice, you seem to get offended anytime anyone says anything remotely negative towards your boy, even if some of it IS common sense stuff.

I personally look forward to the updates. I don't feel the vengeance.

(02-27-2018 02:43 PM)SEA33HAWK Wrote:  

(02-27-2018 02:19 PM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  

(02-27-2018 02:16 PM)82hawk Wrote:  r. For the last time, feel free to ignore my updates of his success at NCSU if offends your sensibilities. This board isn't a safe space, sorry.

Maybe you should take your own advice, you seem to get offended anytime anyone says anything remotely negative towards your boy, even if some of it IS common sense stuff.

I personally look forward to the updates. I don't feel the vengeance.

I don't care if he updates either, but it's something the board is clearly divided on. So when it happens, we get a few more pages of unneeded squabble.
Also, i know you have a lot of connections, ask around about the recruiting class leaving. You might be on our side sooner than you think.

(02-27-2018 12:40 PM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  

(02-27-2018 12:24 PM)82hawk Wrote:  

(02-27-2018 10:35 AM)Seahawk Nation 08 Wrote:  Blaming Brownell for what we were left with is a freaking joke. The guy was put in a lame-duck scenario, and forced out in the last year of his contract. What recruit was going to come here knowing the coach had no long-term security whatsoever?

What was Brownell supposed to say to kids he visited under those circumstances? "Look, uh, I know the donors and administration hate me for some reason, and despite doing nothing wrong don't have a new contract yet. But sure, I'll be here the next 4 years. Of course I will."

Blame Rosemary DePaolo, Mike Capaccio, and Kelly Mehrtens for what Benny Moss and then Buzz Peterson walked into. Under Chancellor Leutze and Peg, none of that mess would have ever happened.

Meanwhile, Buzz deserves credit for cleaning up the program from the APR stuff, and leaving it in a better place than he found it. We didn't win under him, but he set the table for Keatts.

We're all in agreement that Keatts did great things here on the court. But he shouldn't be in the "ring of honor" with guys like Wainwright and Brownell.

Also, there are two sides to every story. There is quite a bit i'm aware of that you may not be aware of based on the treatment of Keatts as he left as well. So let's not pretend we have a good guy v. bad guy situation.

Did you ever stop for a second here and think that maybe some of us are aware of somethings you are not?

in your "facts" comparing the two situations you used CB's recruits to count as depth, that's laughable.

And did you ever stop to think there are some facts I am aware of that you are not? Has it ever crossed your mind that maybe there was a reason Keatts felt less than obliged to do everything he could for UNCW as he left? Or, is he just a bad person who for no reason decided he shouldn't help UNCW as he exited?

And I also counted Benny's recruits his first year. What's your point?