If he retired after the 2013 Championship he’s going down as one of the greatest college coaches of all time. Unfortunately, other people’s agendas eventually kill the old King. Rage against the “light” all you want. Better get out of the way or be destroyed is the lesson to be learned here folks. That “light” can be a kid with a magnifying glass and you are too late realizing you are nothing more than an ant.

Umm are you not aware of the general consensus of most who are not UoL backers that RP was considered dirty long before 2013? Ok "Dirty" may be harsh - Morally Challenged.....

(02-22-2018 10:39 AM)Dasville Wrote:  If he retired after the 2013 Championship he’s going down as one of the greatest college coaches of all time. Unfortunately, other people’s agendas eventually kill the old King. Rage against the “light” all you want. Better get out of the way or be destroyed is the lesson to be learned here folks. That “light” can be a kid with a magnifying glass and you are too late realizing you are nothing more than an ant.

Pitino had a national championship, millions of dollars, and had sex with Karen Sypher. I do not have a national championship, do not have millions of dollars, and did not have sex with Karen Sypher. I figured that put me well ahead of Pitino.

He still has millions of dollars, which are extremely unlikely to be clawed back. There's still the whole sexual humiliation thing, but he prospered from his wrongdoing. This is why so many believe the system to be rigged: even when caught, wrongdoers in a position of public trust usually come out of it pretty good.

(02-22-2018 10:48 AM)Eldonabe Wrote:  Umm are you not aware of the general consensus of most who are not UoL backers that RP was considered dirty long before 2013? Ok "Dirty" may be harsh - Morally Challenged.....

Expect high levels of retirement in the coaching ranks.

(02-22-2018 10:48 AM)Eldonabe Wrote:  Umm are you not aware of the general consensus of most who are not UoL backers that RP was considered dirty long before 2013? Ok "Dirty" may be harsh - Morally Challenged.....

But someone else would have taken the fall for his dirtiness had he retired in 2013.

Not that retirement was a reasonable course from his perspective. It's the crap-shooter's mentality: He got away with it over and over again, so why stop now?

How many successful people do you know who are ready to retire at 61 these days? Hindsight is a wonderful tool. Most of us acquire it too late.

(02-22-2018 10:58 AM)ken d Wrote:  How many successful people do you know who are ready to retire at 61 these days? Hindsight is a wonderful tool. Most of us acquire it too late.

How old is EVERYONE named in the FBI expose? Agents? How about the reporters?
Sure, “Rage against the “light””all you want. Might want to look in the mirror. Left is right and right is left. You might also see someone coming up behind you.

(02-22-2018 10:52 AM)58-56 Wrote:  

(02-22-2018 10:48 AM)Eldonabe Wrote:  Umm are you not aware of the general consensus of most who are not UoL backers that RP was considered dirty long before 2013? Ok "Dirty" may be harsh - Morally Challenged.....

But someone else would have taken the fall for his dirtiness had he retired in 2013.

Not that retirement was a reasonable course from his perspective. It's the crap-shooter's mentality: He got away with it over and over again, so why stop now?

New “players” always ruin the dice or the cards don’t they? Same as someone leaving a table that new how to play. Expect multiple retirements.

NBA will go the way of boxing. Unless it changes the game.

(02-22-2018 10:50 AM)58-56 Wrote:  This is why so many believe the system to be rigged: even when caught, wrongdoers in a position of public trust usually come out of it pretty good.

You aren't kidding. At Penn State, while Spanier and Paterno were put out of their primary jobs, both held tenured roles. So, the two still collected from those roles because they weren't expelled from them.

This was something the school did as a way to retain top personnel at the school. Double-dip with a dual role. It wouldn't surprise me if Barron gets that, coming back to the institution where he used to teach and then serve as Dean. And just try to get Penn State to open up about it...you'll find you're in for quite the fight. That, too, was a legacy for Spanier, leading the charge with one hand right in the state's face for its funding, never loosening the grip on its ledgers' privacy with the other. Our state is to blame for not cutting off PSU from the PSERS teat. Pretty sure the state of Kentucky will be paying for Pitino's life after coaching for quite some time, too.

Pitino is an amazing basketball coach. His basketball mind is the equal of Coach K and Calhoun, and better than Roy Williams, even though Williams has three titles. The aforementioned are his equal, but you have to go back to John Wooden to find a coach with a bigger hoops IQ. I first learned that 30 years ago, when he out-foxed an at-peak John Thompson in a regional final to deprive Georgetown of a Final 4 appearance.

But IMO, his ethical problems at Louisville are a product of the status of Louisville in the college hoops realm.

UL fans will say the reason Pitino, and Calipari, never got in trouble at Kentucky is because Kentucky is one of the "untouchables" while UL is not. That UK is just as shady but they have NCAA teflon.

I don't think so. IMO, it's because UK is in the blue-blood inner circle such that a coach doesn't need to cheat to build national title teams there. The same recruits that require strippers or some cash to go to UL will go to UK "for free" so top speak.

UL has very high status in college hoops, they are probably around #8 in terms of the pecking order.

But UL fans want ultra-blue blood results. They want the same results as Duke, UK, and UNC. And to get the recruits needed to produce them, their coaches, even a genius like Pitino, have to cut some corners that those schools don't.

(02-22-2018 11:25 AM)Dasville Wrote:  Expect multiple retirements.

I don't expect that. None of the other elite head coaches who have also prospered from shady recruiting tactics will retire unless they are as cornered as Pitino was. They all think that their luck will never run out and that they can continue to "get away with it" or that the only ones who have to pay a price will be unlucky assistants like Tony Bland or Book Richardson or Andre McGee.

(02-22-2018 10:58 AM)ken d Wrote:  How many successful people do you know who are ready to retire at 61 these days? Hindsight is a wonderful tool. Most of us acquire it too late.

Most of the successful people I know are ready to retire by age 61. But then again, I hang around mostly with Catholics, and we tend to be less job-focused than most Americans.

My Dad's company (a Fortune 100 firm) offered company-wide early retirement during the recession. He qualified because he was 57 and had worked there since he was 23 (19 if you include internships). They begged him to stay, but he didn't want to spend half his life on airplanes any more.

There are a lot of optics in play. From "who" you are to "what" you are.

The one positive thing I will say about RP is that the guy knew how to win games that many (most) others didn't - sometimes it was X's and O2's and other times it wasn't. As a Umass fan it still burns me when I think about (Umass) Calapari getting T'd up for stepping outside of the coaches box - especially when every f-ing one of those guys did it all the time (and still do). RP needed an edge and he found it - he alerted the ref's to it and they called it when THAT CALL WAS NEVER CALLED. It threw Cal off balance and that was the game....

Fortunately and unfortunately - RP did whatever it took to win.....

(02-22-2018 10:48 AM)Eldonabe Wrote:  Umm are you not aware of the general consensus of most who are not UoL backers that RP was considered dirty long before 2013? Ok "Dirty" may be harsh - Morally Challenged.....

Dirty. Pitino is Dirty and everyone who is not in denial... has known it for years.

Pitino makes make me ashamed of my Italian heritage... I loathe the son'*****.

The Billy D and Brad Stevens of the world have absolutely zero incentive to re-enter the cesspool. 50 programs mentioned in Forde/Thamel latest article? Get in, make some money, get out. To hell with development of skill and character.
Longevity is a culprit.

(02-22-2018 11:07 AM)Dasville Wrote:  

(02-22-2018 10:58 AM)ken d Wrote:  How many successful people do you know who are ready to retire at 61 these days? Hindsight is a wonderful tool. Most of us acquire it too late.

How old is EVERYONE named in the FBI expose? Agents? How about the reporters?
Sure, “Rage against the “light””all you want. Might want to look in the mirror. Left is right and right is left. You might also see someone coming up behind you.

1. Pitino is not the light. He's part of the darkness.

2. Nobody is raging against him. He killed himself reputation wise.

3. He'll be remembered like Paterno, Petrino, Bryles, and a host of folks in the administration at Michigan State.

4. It's sad you want to hold onto what was a corrupt mess at Louisville. My hope for Louisville is that it sees much better days and finds success they can cling to without holding onto that which poisons the soul.

5. If the FBI is serious maybe all of us can clean up the scudzy side of sports and have something our kids can look up to, without the parents' fearing the eventual disillusionment that these kinds of leaders inevitably create.

6. I can't believe anyone is authoring a thread defending this guy. It's as sad as the Penn State threads that did the same for Joe Pa.

(02-22-2018 12:06 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(02-22-2018 10:58 AM)ken d Wrote:  How many successful people do you know who are ready to retire at 61 these days? Hindsight is a wonderful tool. Most of us acquire it too late.

Most of the successful people I know are ready to retire by age 61. But then again, I hang around mostly with Catholics, and we tend to be less job-focused than most Americans.

My Dad's company (a Fortune 100 firm) offered company-wide early retirement during the recession. He qualified because he was 57 and had worked there since he was 23 (19 if you include internships). They begged him to stay, but he didn't want to spend half his life on airplanes any more.

Kudos to your dad! I've known too many people who have worked hard all their lives, but never lived. There is a time to put it down and enjoy your family while you still can. They are the precious moments that make life worth living. The endless pursuit of newer and bigger toys is just as destructive as lives spent pursuing drugs, alcohol, sex, and adrenaline.

(02-22-2018 11:49 AM)Wedge Wrote:  

(02-22-2018 11:25 AM)Dasville Wrote:  Expect multiple retirements.

I don't expect that. None of the other elite head coaches who have also prospered from shady recruiting tactics will retire unless they are as cornered as Pitino was. They all think that their luck will never run out and that they can continue to "get away with it" or that the only ones who have to pay a price will be unlucky assistants like Tony Bland or Book Richardson or Andre McGee.

It's actually called the "aircraft carrier" management style. All of the other smaller vessels in your battle group are there to take the torpedoes meant for the carrier. The assistants that stay with these type of CEO's in life will always take the damage. When you are working with someone with this mentality the best thing you can do for yourself (besides making detailed records) is to leave at your first success. That way you aren't an enemy, and not yet a victim.

There are oodles of football and basketball coaches who operate with the "aircraft carrier" style of management.

In just means that they are narcissistic sobs.

(02-22-2018 03:13 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(02-22-2018 11:49 AM)Wedge Wrote:  

(02-22-2018 11:25 AM)Dasville Wrote:  Expect multiple retirements.

I don't expect that. None of the other elite head coaches who have also prospered from shady recruiting tactics will retire unless they are as cornered as Pitino was. They all think that their luck will never run out and that they can continue to "get away with it" or that the only ones who have to pay a price will be unlucky assistants like Tony Bland or Book Richardson or Andre McGee.

It's actually called the "aircraft carrier" management style. All of the other smaller vessels in your battle group are there to take the torpedoes meant for the carrier. The assistants that stay with these type of CEO's in life will always take the damage. When you are working with someone with this mentality the best thing you can do for yourself (besides making detailed records) is to leave at your first success. That way you aren't an enemy, and not yet a victim.

There are oodles of football and basketball coaches who operate with the "aircraft carrier" style of management.

In just means that they are narcissistic sobs.

Excellent analogy.