(01-12-2018 03:19 PM)Duke Dawg Wrote:  

(01-12-2018 03:10 PM)GOMRDS Wrote:  Given the downsides to FBS for existing G5 programs (rising costs, irrelevant bowl games, lack of fan support), why don't more schools move to FCS? They would save a ton of money (44 'ships and lower coaches salaries), be more competitive, and would have a chance at a real post-season instead of eating $1M in expenses for a bowl game nobody cares about.

Why don't they do it? And please, surprise me by letting this thread get 10 posts before it goes downhill...

they might start soon.

2 years ago, G5 conferences were getting $1m a year in TV revenue. That is down 75% and likely going down further in the coming years.

add that to the COA that needs to be paid at FBS level and the finances will kill more programs just like it did Idaho and (almost) UAB.

it's coming. I'd bet money more programs drop down or kill football all together.

We now get more money from the CFP Payout than we did from TV revenue lol

(01-21-2018 07:36 PM)herdfan129 Wrote:  

(01-12-2018 03:19 PM)Duke Dawg Wrote:  

(01-12-2018 03:10 PM)GOMRDS Wrote:  Given the downsides to FBS for existing G5 programs (rising costs, irrelevant bowl games, lack of fan support), why don't more schools move to FCS? They would save a ton of money (44 'ships and lower coaches salaries), be more competitive, and would have a chance at a real post-season instead of eating $1M in expenses for a bowl game nobody cares about.

Why don't they do it? And please, surprise me by letting this thread get 10 posts before it goes downhill...

they might start soon.

2 years ago, G5 conferences were getting $1m a year in TV revenue. That is down 75% and likely going down further in the coming years.

add that to the COA that needs to be paid at FBS level and the finances will kill more programs just like it did Idaho and (almost) UAB.

it's coming. I'd bet money more programs drop down or kill football all together.

We now get more money from the CFP Payout than we did from TV revenue lol

And P5 teams are getting that playoff money and still getting the big bucks from TV. The G5 is getting squeezed out. It sucks, and I hope somehow the "P5" get the sh*t sued out of them.

(01-13-2018 02:44 PM)DoubleDDuke Wrote:  

(01-12-2018 09:33 PM)Dukeman2 Wrote:  Haven't we concluded that the economics are actually better in FBS?

All depends on the school, the fan base, what road games you play and the payouts, etc.

I think in the next 5 years we'll start to see some type of blend of the FCS and the G5. I don't know exactly how it will manifest itself because it is pretty damn complicated, but the almighty dollar speaks louder than anything. There's no TV money for the G5 anymore. It's really that simple.

Your blend is who.... Who else is moving down, lets see your list... ODU, MTSU, WKU, not happening, Miami OH, Akron, Kent State and even EMU isn't gonna happen.

There are only 3 that maaaay happen and 2 that is a more possibility. New Mexico State and UMass are probably actual possibilities, the MWC isn't taking NMSU anytime soon and neither is the AAC or CUSA taking UMass anytime. The only other program that maaaaay move is ULM, they have the smallest athletic budget in IA, but then again they have a stable conference.

OOOO Yeah Marshall isn't moving down either. All we have done since moving up is go 11-2 in bowl games (.854 win% -- highest bowl win% -- min of 10 bowls), finished ranked 7 times, had 3 Hiesman trophy candidates, 1 top 10 finish, 4 IA All Americans and I'm sure I'm missing somethings.

So again lets see that big list that's moving down to play with JMU in the next 10 years.

The list is pretty small and will happen about the same time the P5 breaks away from the NCAA, which is never.

You and a few others here live in "Fantasy Land"...

Spending on athletics is way out of hand. At some point, there will be quite a few schools that won’t be able to keep up. I don’t think Marshall will be one of these schools.

Have you look in the stands at a lot of the G5 schools during games? Where is the revenue coming from to fund athletics at these schools. It’s not TV nor ticket sales. How is this business model sustainable for them?

I honestly believe JMU could fund FBS football. Bring in better competition and they would sell more tickets. The fan support and funding is there for the increased scholarships. I think private funds would increase if we became FBS. Could it grow enough to keep pace with the escalating costs? I am not 100% sure of that but I believe it is possible. Being in an FBS league with travel costs comparable to the CAA, would make funding the move up a sure thing. That league doesn’t exist right now.

I would have to believe there are way more FCS schools close to shutting down their football program than there are FBS moving down or stopping their program altogether. I really don't see how half the schools in our conference can pay their bills with average attendance of less than 8K while trying to keep pace with us on the field.

James Madison FBS Athletics Feasibility Study:

• “the financial data indicates that the athletics generated revenue will grow at a larger percentage than expense with a move to an FBS conference” (Page VII-50)
• “this will decrease the reliance on student fees” (Page VII – 50)

Appalachian State Final Report of the Athletics Feasibility Committee:

• “Data shows that FBS athletic departments use a substantially smaller percentage of their total spending from student fees than those at FCS level”
• “ A recent study shows that student fees as a source for athletics is 72 percent for FCS and 20% for FBS””
• “the committee believes that the best opportunity for success is in a conference of public universities that share similar missions and support for athletics”
• “according to the committees analysis, ASU athletic will have to raise its yearly budget by about $6 million; however, the committee concluded that a move to FBS will open new revenue streams that will cover the costs”

(01-23-2018 09:45 AM)Dukeman2 Wrote:  James Madison FBS Athletics Feasibility Study:

• “the financial data indicates that the athletics generated revenue will grow at a larger percentage than expense with a move to an FBS conference” (Page VII-50)
• “this will decrease the reliance on student fees” (Page VII – 50)

Appalachian State Final Report of the Athletics Feasibility Committee:

• “Data shows that FBS athletic departments use a substantially smaller percentage of their total spending from student fees than those at FCS level”
• “ A recent study shows that student fees as a source for athletics is 72 percent for FCS and 20% for FBS””
• “the committee believes that the best opportunity for success is in a conference of public universities that share similar missions and support for athletics”
• “according to the committees analysis, ASU athletic will have to raise its yearly budget by about $6 million; however, the committee concluded that a move to FBS will open new revenue streams that will cover the costs”

Given the shifting landscape, the data in the 2013 study is probably stale.

How much you want to bet that we would do another study if/when this topic becomes relevant again.

Perhaps another degree of separation and how the stakes were just raised again between P5 and G5 - just saw in a recent RTD article that P5 schools will now also be adding medical insurance to the COA for athletes.

ODU finances “very good” per this article.

Payments from CUSA come in different forms, but they total almost $4 million per year based various payment types (yes TV is down, but football FBS bowl money is substantially higher than ever)

http://www.dailypress.com/sports/teel-bl...-post.html

(01-23-2018 10:55 AM)Dukeman2 Wrote:  ODU finances “very good” per this article.

Payments from CUSA come in different forms, but they total almost $4 million per year based various payment types (yes TV is down, but football FBS bowl money is substantially higher than ever)

http://www.dailypress.com/sports/teel-bl...-post.html

that article is almost 2 years old...

(01-23-2018 12:34 AM)JMUNation Wrote:  Spending on athletics is way out of hand....

I hear ya but didn't people say that back in the 1990s? Yet here we are and teams are spending a lot more than what they did when things were already 'way out of hand'.

(01-23-2018 02:14 AM)BleedingPurple Wrote:  I would have to believe there are way more FCS schools close to shutting down their football program than there are FBS moving down or stopping their program altogether. I really don't see how half the schools in our conference can pay their bills with average attendance of less than 8K while trying to keep pace with us on the field.

This is a good question. Are JMU/NDSU any other team that is consistently in the top five making it hard for fcs programs that play on asphalt parking lots and draw 1,300 to keep the lights on? We are their smaller scale Alabama problem.

How long till Dukeman2 forgets his password and Dukeman3 comes to spew alternative facts?

I vote for Dukeman LIVE and Engaged

(01-23-2018 02:14 AM)BleedingPurple Wrote:  I would have to believe there are way more FCS schools close to shutting down their football program than there are FBS moving down or stopping their program altogether. I really don't see how half the schools in our conference can pay their bills with average attendance of less than 8K while trying to keep pace with us on the field.

This could be accurate as well. Keep in mind that 63 scholarships is the max but that doesn’t mean all schools use all 63 scholarships. There will be other FCS schools that drop football and I won’t be surprised to see FBS schools do the same or continue to just be mediocre year in and year out.

College tuition cost is a bubble that will burst. When it does, schools will have to reduce their expenses to stay afloat. Athletics is an easy place to cut at many schools when there is no student or alumni interest in attending games.

(01-23-2018 02:46 PM)JMaddy Wrote:  

(01-23-2018 12:34 AM)JMUNation Wrote:  Spending on athletics is way out of hand....

I hear ya but didn't people say that back in the 1990s? Yet here we are and teams are spending a lot more than what they did when things were already 'way out of hand'.

Yes, they likely did and how many schools have killed football since the 90s?

The P5s have the funds to spend so no problem there. Many of the G5 do not. Many in the G5 are former FCS schools trying to spend money they don’t have to gain relevance they don’t have but desperately want. The well will eventually run dry for them.

(01-23-2018 10:52 PM)JMUNation Wrote:  

(01-23-2018 02:46 PM)JMaddy Wrote:  

(01-23-2018 12:34 AM)JMUNation Wrote:  Spending on athletics is way out of hand....

I hear ya but didn't people say that back in the 1990s? Yet here we are and teams are spending a lot more than what they did when things were already 'way out of hand'.

Yes, they likely did and how many schools have killed football since the 90s?

The P5s have the funds to spend so no problem there. Many of the G5 do not. Many in the G5 are former FCS schools trying to spend money they don’t have to gain relevance they don’t have but desperately want. The well will eventually run dry for them.

If you have the balls then name these FBS schools that are going to either move or shut down.

IA IAA schools who have dropped football since 1990

1991
Cal State Long Beach
Cal State Santa Barbara

1992
Cal State Fullerton
Santa Clara

1995
Pacific University

1997
Boston University
University of Evansville

2001
Cal State Northridge

2002
Canisius College
Fairfield University
St. John's University (New York)

2003
ETSU - Program brought back in 2015
Saint Mary's College of California
Siena College

2006
Saint Peter's University

2007
La Salle University

2008
Iona College

2009
Hofstra University
Northeastern University

January 2018

ODU record athletic fundraising in 2017 – “reducing student fees” and “nationally prominent athletics”

https://pilotonline.com/sports/college/o...22cec.html

http://www.odusports.com/ViewArticle.dbm...=211692851

(01-25-2018 12:46 PM)Dukeman2 Wrote:  January 2018

ODU record athletic fundraising in 2017 – “reducing student fees” and “nationally prominent athletics”

https://pilotonline.com/sports/college/o...22cec.html

http://www.odusports.com/ViewArticle.dbm...=211692851

most of that went to the ever shrinking "new" football stadium.

we raised $12m towards a brand new state of the art basketball arena.

(01-25-2018 12:46 PM)Dukeman2 Wrote:  January 2018

ODU record athletic fundraising in 2017 – “reducing student fees” and “nationally prominent athletics”

https://pilotonline.com/sports/college/o...22cec.html

http://www.odusports.com/ViewArticle.dbm...=211692851

1) Do you have a Google Alert setup for ODU news?
2) The actual quote is that nationally prominent athletics is their goal. That's also the goal of JMU and most other D1 schools.