Haven't we concluded that the economics are actually better in FBS?

Geography killed Idaho’s move to FBS. Just too far away from the other schools.

In speaking with the NDSU faithful, they absolutely hate North Dakota and use to have some heated games against them when they were in the same conference. ND is joining the MVC in a couple of years so the rivalry will be rekindled.

I have said it for the last 15 years. Rivalries make college sports attractive to fans. If you want butts in the seats, you need rivalries. This is what is hurting CUSA right now. There are no real rivalries to speak of in that conference. You don’t have to have 40000 people show up. 20000 is a good crowd and 15000 isn’t bad either.

Idaho will be just fine once they rekindle some of their old rivalries. Their big donors with their big egos(Rose Bowl?) might be gone but they will be replaced by donors with more realistic expectations of what Idaho football can be.

My takeaways from this thread:

JMU's short-term ceiling is Central Arkansas and Kennesaw State.

JMU's long-term ceiling is hoping Coastal Carolina and Georgia State "drop back down" to join us in Division II playoffs.

We pretend top CAA football schools like Villanova, William & Mary, and Delaware are our academic/profile peers but we're a mid-tier regional master's level institution and they are not. Our true academic/profile peers are Murray State, Towson, Grand Valley State, and Christopher Newport.

If we're stuck in FCS until the G5 reshuffles enough for this admin to get off their a$$es that's one thing- but if you all keeping talking this up like it's the next best thing to being Alabama you're either delusional or a certified admin sycophant.

I'm hoping this is just a temporary limbo, praying the day comes when we can play in a league with the likes of Navy, ECU, and Temple... or host Va Tech in a completed BFS. Some of you guys seem to be rejoicing in a future where we're competing for a small-time trophy against Northern Great Plains University and Waffle House College.

(01-12-2018 09:33 PM)Dukeman2 Wrote:  Haven't we concluded that the economics are actually better in FBS?

All depends on the school, the fan base, what road games you play and the payouts, etc.

I think in the next 5 years we'll start to see some type of blend of the FCS and the G5. I don't know exactly how it will manifest itself because it is pretty damn complicated, but the almighty dollar speaks louder than anything. There's no TV money for the G5 anymore. It's really that simple.

(01-13-2018 02:22 PM)2Buck Wrote:  My takeaways from this thread:

JMU's short-term ceiling is Central Arkansas and Kennesaw State.

JMU's long-term ceiling is hoping Coastal Carolina and Georgia State "drop back down" to join us in Division II playoffs.

We pretend top CAA football schools like Villanova, William & Mary, and Delaware are our academic/profile peers but we're a mid-tier regional master's level institution and they are not. Our true academic/profile peers are Murray State, Towson, Grand Valley State, and Christopher Newport.

If we're stuck in FCS until the G5 reshuffles enough for this admin to get off their a$$es that's one thing- but if you all keeping talking this up like it's the next best thing to being Alabama you're either delusional or a certified admin sycophant.

I'm hoping this is just a temporary limbo, praying the day comes when we can play in a league with the likes of Navy, ECU, and Temple... or host Va Tech in a completed BFS. Some of you guys seem to be rejoicing in a future where we're competing for a small-time trophy against Northern Great Plains University and Waffle House College.

Everything is temporary, 2Buck. Just a matter of how long you live.

(01-12-2018 07:04 PM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  

(01-12-2018 03:53 PM)94computerguy Wrote:  I wish more would. I think FCS would be greatly improved by having more G5-level teams. There might be more than 3 or 4 powerhouses in FCS and those would be some great games. I'm a stay-FCS guy, but the mover-uppers have a point when they talk about how sad it is to play in front of 3000 people at Maine or whatever.

Your last sentence answers the title question. Even if we don't often play in packed stadiums the attendance and atmosphere is still way better than most of FCS. From what I've read on the Sun Belt board Idaho is losing a ton of fans from this move. I know if we moved down it would be a lot harder for me to go to games. I never really followed us when were FCS and I'm not sure if I would if we went back. Hopefully that never happens.

Those whiny fans will be back if they start winning enough to qualify for the playoffs. Their attendance hasn’t been earth shattering for decades so there isn’t a whole lot for them to lose. Sometimes people just like winning.

(01-13-2018 04:53 PM)Potomac Wrote:  

(01-12-2018 07:04 PM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  

(01-12-2018 03:53 PM)94computerguy Wrote:  I wish more would. I think FCS would be greatly improved by having more G5-level teams. There might be more than 3 or 4 powerhouses in FCS and those would be some great games. I'm a stay-FCS guy, but the mover-uppers have a point when they talk about how sad it is to play in front of 3000 people at Maine or whatever.

Your last sentence answers the title question. Even if we don't often play in packed stadiums the attendance and atmosphere is still way better than most of FCS. From what I've read on the Sun Belt board Idaho is losing a ton of fans from this move. I know if we moved down it would be a lot harder for me to go to games. I never really followed us when were FCS and I'm not sure if I would if we went back. Hopefully that never happens.

Those whiny fans will be back if they start winning enough to qualify for the playoffs. Their attendance hasn’t been earth shattering for decades so there isn’t a whole lot for them to lose. Sometimes people just like whining.

FIFY

(01-13-2018 02:47 PM)DoubleDDuke Wrote:  

(01-13-2018 02:22 PM)2Buck Wrote:  My takeaways from this thread:

JMU's short-term ceiling is Central Arkansas and Kennesaw State.

JMU's long-term ceiling is hoping Coastal Carolina and Georgia State "drop back down" to join us in Division II playoffs.

We pretend top CAA football schools like Villanova, William & Mary, and Delaware are our academic/profile peers but we're a mid-tier regional master's level institution and they are not. Our true academic/profile peers are Murray State, Towson, Grand Valley State, and Christopher Newport.

If we're stuck in FCS until the G5 reshuffles enough for this admin to get off their a$$es that's one thing- but if you all keeping talking this up like it's the next best thing to being Alabama you're either delusional or a certified admin sycophant.

I'm hoping this is just a temporary limbo, praying the day comes when we can play in a league with the likes of Navy, ECU, and Temple... or host Va Tech in a completed BFS. Some of you guys seem to be rejoicing in a future where we're competing for a small-time trophy against Northern Great Plains University and Waffle House College.

Everything is temporary, 2Buck. Just a matter of how long you live.

In the long run we’re all dead.

(01-13-2018 06:08 PM)DBJMU2006 Wrote:  

(01-13-2018 02:47 PM)DoubleDDuke Wrote:  

(01-13-2018 02:22 PM)2Buck Wrote:  My takeaways from this thread:

JMU's short-term ceiling is Central Arkansas and Kennesaw State.

JMU's long-term ceiling is hoping Coastal Carolina and Georgia State "drop back down" to join us in Division II playoffs.

We pretend top CAA football schools like Villanova, William & Mary, and Delaware are our academic/profile peers but we're a mid-tier regional master's level institution and they are not. Our true academic/profile peers are Murray State, Towson, Grand Valley State, and Christopher Newport.

If we're stuck in FCS until the G5 reshuffles enough for this admin to get off their a$$es that's one thing- but if you all keeping talking this up like it's the next best thing to being Alabama you're either delusional or a certified admin sycophant.

I'm hoping this is just a temporary limbo, praying the day comes when we can play in a league with the likes of Navy, ECU, and Temple... or host Va Tech in a completed BFS. Some of you guys seem to be rejoicing in a future where we're competing for a small-time trophy against Northern Great Plains University and Waffle House College.

Everything is temporary, 2Buck. Just a matter of how long you live.

In the long run we’re all dead.

Except for me..
I used to caddy for the Lama

We made it 22 posts, everyone!!

(01-12-2018 08:36 PM)olddawg Wrote:  Not sure what atmosphere we are missing by not being in the Sun Belt. This is why we are not moving. If we are to undertake the process of moving "UP", we'd like to feel like we have actually moved "UP".

JMU home attendance- 6 regular season games: 24,840- FCS schedule
TSU home attendance- 6 regular season games: 17,450- FBS schedule
JMU total attendance for 11 regular season games: 20, 960...playing an FCS schedule
TSU total attendance for 12 regular season games: 19,830....playing an FBS schedule

The acronym is TXST. TSU is either Tarleton State or Texas Southern. Like I said, atmosphere is better than most of FCS. Y'all are obviously one of the few exceptions. Did y'all have a crowd of over 30k at your stadium this season? We did and it was awesome. I'm not saying y'alls atmosphere isn't great, I'm sure it is. I'm just answering the question, I didn't even make a comparison between y'all and us. So you don't think that playing away games with crowds around 20k is a move up from away games with 4 or 5k?

I don't think us averaging 17.5k is bad for a 2-10 team that has won 7 games in 3 years.

(01-13-2018 02:47 PM)DoubleDDuke Wrote:  

(01-13-2018 02:22 PM)2Buck Wrote:  My takeaways from this thread:

JMU's short-term ceiling is Central Arkansas and Kennesaw State.

JMU's long-term ceiling is hoping Coastal Carolina and Georgia State "drop back down" to join us in Division II playoffs.

We pretend top CAA football schools like Villanova, William & Mary, and Delaware are our academic/profile peers but we're a mid-tier regional master's level institution and they are not. Our true academic/profile peers are Murray State, Towson, Grand Valley State, and Christopher Newport.

If we're stuck in FCS until the G5 reshuffles enough for this admin to get off their a$$es that's one thing- but if you all keeping talking this up like it's the next best thing to being Alabama you're either delusional or a certified admin sycophant.

I'm hoping this is just a temporary limbo, praying the day comes when we can play in a league with the likes of Navy, ECU, and Temple... or host Va Tech in a completed BFS. Some of you guys seem to be rejoicing in a future where we're competing for a small-time trophy against Northern Great Plains University and Waffle House College.

Everything is temporary, 2Buck. Just a matter of how long you live.

(01-13-2018 08:50 PM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  

(01-12-2018 08:36 PM)olddawg Wrote:  Not sure what atmosphere we are missing by not being in the Sun Belt. This is why we are not moving. If we are to undertake the process of moving "UP", we'd like to feel like we have actually moved "UP".

JMU home attendance- 6 regular season games: 24,840- FCS schedule
TSU home attendance- 6 regular season games: 17,450- FBS schedule
JMU total attendance for 11 regular season games: 20, 960...playing an FCS schedule
TSU total attendance for 12 regular season games: 19,830....playing an FBS schedule

The acronym is TXST. TSU is either Tarleton State or Texas Southern. Like I said, atmosphere is better than most of FCS. Y'all are obviously one of the few exceptions. Did y'all have a crowd of over 30k at your stadium this season? We did and it was awesome. I'm not saying y'alls atmosphere isn't great, I'm sure it is. I'm just answering the question, I didn't even make a comparison between y'all and us. So you don't think that playing away games with crowds around 20k is a move up from away games with 4 or 5k?

I don't think us averaging 17.5k is bad for a 2-10 team that has won 7 games in 3 years.

Party in the Endzone?

If T-State's AVERAGE is 17.5k, but that includes one game of 30k...that's HORRIBLE attendance for those other games!

(01-14-2018 09:54 AM)HyperDuke Wrote:  If T-State's AVERAGE is 17.5k, but that includes one game of 30k...that's HORRIBLE attendance for those other games!

My first thought too. I see it was UTSA, who draws well surprisingly and is what 30 minutes away, if that? I’m guessing half of that crowd was their fans. That kind of doesn’t count.
We’re drawing 26k against FCS opponents.

(01-13-2018 08:50 PM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  The acronym is TXST. TSU is either Tarleton State or Texas Southern.

Not according to the silver screen. You guys changed your name to Texas State 12 years after the movie came out. You guys are forever the Armadillos of TSU!

(01-13-2018 08:50 PM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  

(01-12-2018 08:36 PM)olddawg Wrote:  Not sure what atmosphere we are missing by not being in the Sun Belt. This is why we are not moving. If we are to undertake the process of moving "UP", we'd like to feel like we have actually moved "UP".

JMU home attendance- 6 regular season games: 24,840- FCS schedule
TSU home attendance- 6 regular season games: 17,450- FBS schedule
JMU total attendance for 11 regular season games: 20, 960...playing an FCS schedule
TSU total attendance for 12 regular season games: 19,830....playing an FBS schedule

The acronym is TXST. TSU is either Tarleton State or Texas Southern. Like I said, atmosphere is better than most of FCS. Y'all are obviously one of the few exceptions. Did y'all have a crowd of over 30k at your stadium this season? We did and it was awesome. I'm not saying y'alls atmosphere isn't great, I'm sure it is. I'm just answering the question, I didn't even make a comparison between y'all and us. So you don't think that playing away games with crowds around 20k is a move up from away games with 4 or 5k?

I don't think us averaging 17.5k is bad for a 2-10 team that has won 7 games in 3 years.

It's a valid argument. Problem is, there is no pot of gold at the end of your rainbow no matter what.

The economics for FBS teams are better than FCS.

This was the conclusion in the FBS study;and, App State has validated this (and others)

Yes TV revenues are down - but guarantee games, bowl money, and sponsorship dollars are much higher.

There are a large number of FBS programs barely keeping their heads above the stagnant waters they are in with programs regressing each year. With costs increasing each year just not sure how long this is sustainable... cutting costs to keep afloat is a downward spiral many programs are fully cognizant of but unwilling to accept the reality just yet.

(01-14-2018 02:27 PM)Dukeman2 Wrote:  The economics for FBS teams are better than FCS.

This was the conclusion in the FBS study;and, App State has validated this (and others)

Yes TV revenues are down - but guarantee games, bowl money, and sponsorship dollars are much higher.

Bowls actually end up losing money. In fairness, so do FCS playoff games. But, if you go play LSU and get $1 million, yeah you can make a case.