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Presbyterian Football in trouble? (may drop, go Pioneer
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Presbyterian Football in trouble? (may drop, go Pioneer
GSC probably is what the minds at AS and BS consider when they are depleted, though. Half that list isn't terrible; it's done its share of feeding D1. SAC, on the other hand...with enrollments like those within it, ANY of those schools would be in Presbyterian's shoes right now if they were the ones who went up to D1. Even Catawba, who puts itself out there for D1 games.

Slippery Rock? They may not even survive as a school; one of the few tossed out there to merge with another to make up for dipping enrollments. Maybe the school that comes from a merge between them and Cali-Pa might bring some consideration...SR on its own is sadly dying. A lot of the PASSHE schools aren't doing so hot. West Chester's the crown jewel...if they aren't going D1, nobody else in PASSHE will, either.
10-26-2017 04:41 AM
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TexanMark Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Presbyterian Football in trouble? (may drop, go Pioneer
(10-26-2017 04:41 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  GSC probably is what the minds at AS and BS consider when they are depleted, though. Half that list isn't terrible; it's done its share of feeding D1. SAC, on the other hand...with enrollments like those within it, ANY of those schools would be in Presbyterian's shoes right now if they were the ones who went up to D1. Even Catawba, who puts itself out there for D1 games.

Slippery Rock? They may not even survive as a school; one of the few tossed out there to merge with another to make up for dipping enrollments. Maybe the school that comes from a merge between them and Cali-Pa might bring some consideration...SR on its own is sadly dying. A lot of the PASSHE schools aren't doing so hot. West Chester's the crown jewel...if they aren't going D1, nobody else in PASSHE will, either.

IUP does fairly well too...I could see them going FCS...but as you mentioned it is all about money
10-26-2017 07:40 AM
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Presbyterian Football in trouble? (may drop, go Pioneer
(10-26-2017 07:40 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  IUP does fairly well too...I could see them going FCS...but as you mentioned it is all about money

IUP advertises hard, but their enrollment has slipped a bit over the years. If Clarion or Lock Haven were a little closer, one (or both) would/should be absorbed by IUP.
10-26-2017 08:59 AM
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utpotts Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Presbyterian Football in trouble? (may drop, go Pioneer
(10-25-2017 11:10 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  
(10-25-2017 10:46 PM)AZcats Wrote:  
(10-25-2017 08:45 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  I do think that both A-Sun and Big South do some invites from D2 schools.
Valdosta State
West georgia
Florida Tech
West Florida
Catawba
Carson Newmann
Slippey Rocky
Indiana, PA.
Kutztown
Bellarmine
All could go somewhere.

Ask and ye shall receive a DavidSt fantasy list.

I found pure gold...Slippey Rocky vs Carson Newmann

TV execs will clamor to get a chance to put this game on Facebook Live.

Come on now. That's going to be an ESPN prime time game.
10-26-2017 10:10 AM
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Fighting Muskie Online
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Post: #25
RE: Presbyterian Football in trouble? (may drop, go Pioneer
(10-25-2017 08:45 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  I do think that both A-Sun and Big South do some invites from D2 schools.
Valdosta State
West georgia
Florida Tech
West Florida
Catawba
Carson Newmann
Slippey Rocky
Indiana, PA.
Kutztown
Bellarmine
All could go somewhere.

A couple of those might have a chance at moving up someday but we are not going to see a MLS movement of a dozen schools to DI
10-26-2017 10:40 AM
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NoDak Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Presbyterian Football in trouble? (may drop, go Pioneer
West Georgia has a $120 mil renovation plan, including athletic facilites. Their President has promised that it won't pursue DI until at least 2020.
10-26-2017 10:54 AM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Presbyterian Football in trouble? (may drop, go Pioneer
(10-26-2017 08:59 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  
(10-26-2017 07:40 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  IUP does fairly well too...I could see them going FCS...but as you mentioned it is all about money

IUP advertises hard, but their enrollment has slipped a bit over the years. If Clarion or Lock Haven were a little closer, one (or both) would/should be absorbed by IUP.


IUP did mentioned that they would like to go to D1 one day.

GSC former schools that went to D1?

Central Arkansas
Jacksonville State
New Orleans for 1 season, and reverse coursed.
Nicholls state
Northwestern State, La.
Southeastern La.
Tennessee-Martin
Troy
UNA

Conference Carolinas does have Limestone at 3300 enrollment. They do need a football home for their team. They are the largest school in the conference.

Former CCC members.
Appalachian State
East Carolina
Elon
High Point
Western Carolina
Presbyterian
Longwood

Limestone might move up. After adding football, their enrollment went up.

CACC may have a couple that could move up. Wilmington in Delaware and Post in Connecticut. Not sure they want two for profit schools up in D1 with Post.

Could the Big South land 2 HBCUs? Bowie State with their blue football turf and Virginia State.

Peach Belt does have UNC-Pembroke who might like to have all their sports in one conference. The other is Columbus State who are weighing to move to D1 or add football. They could do both.

PSAC do have schools with more than 10,000.
Indiana, PA. close to 15,000
Kutztown over 10,600
West Chester over 16,000

Slippery Rock is at 8,800. It is around the size of UNA. Some of the schools could benefit if they do move up to D1.
10-26-2017 12:16 PM
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NoDak Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Presbyterian Football in trouble? (may drop, go Pioneer
IUP and West Chester should consider DI hockey before DI everything else. Both Pittsburgh and Philly can support DI hockey.
10-26-2017 01:15 PM
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AZcats Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Presbyterian Football in trouble? (may drop, go Pioneer
This thread is officially hijacked now.

(10-26-2017 12:16 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  GSC former schools that went to D1?

Central Arkansas
Jacksonville State
New Orleans for 1 season, and reverse coursed.
Nicholls state
Northwestern State, La.
Southeastern La.
Tennessee-Martin
Troy
UNA

Conference Carolinas does have Limestone at 3300 enrollment. They do need a football home for their team. They are the largest school in the conference.

Former CCC members.
Appalachian State
East Carolina
Elon
High Point
Western Carolina
Presbyterian
Longwood

Limestone might move up. After adding football, their enrollment went up.

New Orleans doesn't count; none of this is relevant anyway.

Quote:CACC may have a couple that could move up. Wilmington in Delaware and Post in Connecticut. Not sure they want two for profit schools up in D1 with Post.

Could the Big South land 2 HBCUs? Bowie State with their blue football turf and Virginia State.

Not going to happen for a variety of reasons. Bowie State does not have a blue turf and why would they when their colors are black and gold.

Quote:Peach Belt does have UNC-Pembroke who might like to have all their sports in one conference. The other is Columbus State who are weighing to move to D1 or add football. They could do both.

Both schools have dropped multiple sports over the last two years due to budget tightening; they do not have the funds for D1.

Quote:IUP did mentioned that they would like to go to D1 one day.

PSAC do have schools with more than 10,000.
Indiana, PA. close to 15,000
Kutztown over 10,600
West Chester over 16,000

Slippery Rock is at 8,800. It is around the size of UNA. Some of the schools could benefit if they do move up to D1.

IUP is one of a majority of PASSHE schools where enrollment is stagnate or declining. As was stated earlier, if West Chester isn't going D1 then no one is.
10-26-2017 03:48 PM
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Presbyterian Football in trouble? (may drop, go Pioneer
(10-26-2017 12:16 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  PSAC do have schools with more than 10,000.
Indiana, PA. close to 15,000
Kutztown over 10,600
West Chester over 16,000

Slippery Rock is at 8,800. It is around the size of UNA. Some of the schools could benefit if they do move up to D1.

Combined graduate and undergraduate, though. And while those numbers look healthy for schools from a robust state education system, compare those numbers to the 90's, 00's, and the start of the current decade. They used to be bigger.

And where they're getting utterly crushed is in the education and business majors. Those schools used to be teacher generators. Penn State then got in the game of putting those programs at their satellite campuses, and it's been ripping the PASSHE schools apart. "Hey, hire me because I went to PENN STATE...Du Bois" still sounds better than "Hey, hire me because I went to Clarion."
10-26-2017 04:03 PM
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chidave Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Presbyterian Football in trouble? (may drop, go Pioneer
We played down there in our first year and I would hate to see this happen. It's a nice little town, decent tailgate area, and hey the Scotsman statue is pretty cool.
10-27-2017 02:44 PM
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Cyniclone Offline
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RE: Presbyterian Football in trouble? (may drop, go Pioneer
It would hinder the ability for their programs to schedule FBS bodybag games, but the Big South should seriously consider going the NEC limited-scholarship route, or even going all-out nonscholarship. That might be enough to keep Presby in the fold while giving Davidson, Jacksonville and Stetson a more geographically friendly option than the Pioneer.
(This post was last modified: 10-27-2017 03:36 PM by Cyniclone.)
10-27-2017 03:35 PM
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Fighting Muskie Online
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Post: #33
RE: Presbyterian Football in trouble? (may drop, go Pioneer
(10-27-2017 03:35 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  It would hinder the ability for their programs to schedule FBS bodybag games, but the Big South should seriously consider going the NEC limited-scholarship route, or even going all-out nonscholarship. That might be enough to keep Presby in the fold while giving Davidson, Jacksonville and Stetson a more geographically friendly option than the Pioneer.

Maybe the solution to keep Big South football afloat is to either to not require scholarships (potentially pulling Jacksonville and Stetson in the process) or splitting into a scholarship and non-scholarship divisions.
10-27-2017 04:08 PM
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Lord Stanley Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Presbyterian Football in trouble? (may drop, go Pioneer
(10-26-2017 12:16 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  IUP did mentioned that they would like to go to D1 one day.

I love the visual here. I've written a screenplay about it....

INT COFFEE SHOP - NIGHT

IUP, a pretty young school in the PSAC opens the door to a hip coffee shop furnished in vintage French Industrial Farmhouse Style. IUP's blouse is torn, revealing a plain football jersey. She sees her on-again, off-again vegan lover, California University of Pennsylvania, who now goes by CUP.

CUP: "The PSAC needs you to be strong, IUP. You may doubt that the PSAC hears you, but we love you."

IUP gently touches CUP's shoulder pads....

IUP: "I'd like to go D1 one day."






FIN
(This post was last modified: 10-27-2017 05:28 PM by Lord Stanley.)
10-27-2017 05:25 PM
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Michael in Raleigh Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Presbyterian Football in trouble? (may drop, go Pioneer
Wow, this could turn the Big South (for football) into the Big East and WAC circa 2011, where they're constantly trying to get new members to join while existing members are looking to get out. Seriously, if you're Charleston Southern, incoming football member Campbell, Gardner Webb, or any other football member, are you not clawing like crazy to escape to the CAA, SoCon, or even the OVC?
10-27-2017 07:22 PM
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NoDak Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Presbyterian Football in trouble? (may drop, go Pioneer
(10-27-2017 07:22 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  Wow, this could turn the Big South (for football) into the Big East and WAC circa 2011, where they're constantly trying to get new members to join while existing members are looking to get out. Seriously, if you're Charleston Southern, incoming football member Campbell, Gardner Webb, or any other football member, are you not clawing like crazy to escape to the CAA, SoCon, or even the OVC?

The Big South could just take over the southern half of the Pioneer League which is transcontinental anyway. It just needs six teams.

Charleston Southern, Campbell and GW have probably tried to escape for years to the Southern but to no avail. Liberty is still a member as they have no other conference option, yet.

VMI should go back to the Big South and all would be well.

The nonfb side can take in more schools, like Lincoln Memorial, which has been pawning for a DI invite.
10-27-2017 08:10 PM
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gosports1 Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Presbyterian Football in trouble? (may drop, go Pioneer
(10-25-2017 10:25 PM)NoDak Wrote:  
(10-25-2017 07:35 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  Presbyterian just should drop football and add Men's Lacrosse

That would make a lot of sense. But enrollment probably needs no-scholarship fb more.

Wofford just up I-26 a bit from Presbyterian has barely more enrollment but almost double the endowment. Wofford is leading the Southern as this is written.

Stayed in Clinton one might and took a driving tour of the campus. It was more impressive that I would have thought.

I feel like they had lacrosse, didn't they?
10-27-2017 08:39 PM
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chargeradio Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Presbyterian Football in trouble? (may drop, go Pioneer
Presbyterian has women's lax, but doesn't currently have men's lax.
10-27-2017 09:03 PM
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solohawks Online
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Post: #39
RE: Presbyterian Football in trouble? (may drop, go Pioneer
With liberty and coastal gone would anyone in the Big south really care if the scholly rules got more relaxed?
10-28-2017 02:22 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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RE: Presbyterian Football in trouble? (may drop, go Pioneer
(10-28-2017 02:22 PM)solohawks Wrote:  With liberty and coastal gone would anyone in the Big south really care if the scholly rules got more relaxed?


A-Sun schools may not like it. They want to have the advantage to have the scholarships at the same levels because KSU and UNA could move in the future to another conference. With those 2 in the mixed, Jacksonville and Stetson should go scholarship as well. Lets not forget High Point do want to add football in the future as well. Winthrop should have green lighted the addition of football.
Lipscomb, UNF and FGCU of the Asun have been thinking of adding football as well.
Longwood and Radford do have club teams. Maybe the Big South could sway the schools to turned the club teams to Pioneer League teams then join the Big South in the future for all sports.
10-28-2017 03:23 PM
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