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Unfortunately the NCAA's hands were tied due to UNC letting every student take fake classes. Interesting concept. Maybe Pitino should have just been handing out checks to regular students

(10-13-2017 11:20 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Unfortunately the NCAA's hands were tied due to UNC letting every student take fake classes. Interesting concept. Maybe Pitino should have just been handing out checks to regular students

The problem is their logic is flawed. If every student had crappy grades (read so poorly they would be "ineligible"), are they saying that the student athletes would get a pass on that as well? Just because normal, non student athletes had access shouldn't make it OK.

They found (or didn't find) what they wanted to find.

(09-28-2017 11:02 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  The NCAA is clearly going after the UNC, but they have a tough court battle ahead.

Looks like they chickened out.

This is the end of the NCAA. They just admitted that they are powerless.

Even if they thought they would lose in court, they should have stuck to their guns and doled out the most robust penalty in the history of college sports for UNCs infractions. At least then they could argue that they are not irrelevant.

They just accepted it, and decided to move on letting everyone know that it is perfectly okay for schools to cheat the sport, the fans, and most importantly, the "student athletes".

This is an utter embarrassment to college sports, and another feather in the cap of those who want to further corrupt the game by allowing schools to pay players, since schools and the NCAA can no longer claim that kids are being paid in the form of an education.

This is the worst thing that has ever happened to college sports. Far worse than the Adidas scandal, which also will result in no penalties for schools now that the NCAA has accepted its role as the ***** of the power programs.

Had y'all read the Wainstein report, you would have known NCAA didn't have a leg to stand on with the "paper classes". My guess is the reason the NCAA "chickened out" is because they couldn't tie football or MBB to using the classes inappropriately the same way they were able to tie WBB to it. I think the looming basketball scandal will be worse. IMHO, I don't think anyone who is an employee of a member institution or conference should be allowed to be on any NCAA investigative/discipline committee. It just gives the appearance of a conflict of interest.

No they chickened out because they probably would have lost in court even though everyone knows that basketball and football were egregiously cheating. My point is that if they wanted to show one iota of integrity they should have gone ahead with a massive punishment that is reflective of the embarrassment that UNC cast over all of higher learning, even knowing it would be overturned by a court. Then they should have forced everyone to come to the table and put a rule on the books that does not allow such detestable actions. They also ignored MANY other infractions that were uncovered during the investigation. But I guess you already know about them since you have followed this so closely. What about "Black Santa"? What about players who admitted to improper benefits that were NOT part of the MASSIVE CHEATING SCANDAL? This is the day the NCAA admitted, after a more than 1/2 decade of "investigating" that it is the corrupt, spineless entity that we always new it was.

They spent $18 million on the court battle. They just decided to cut bait because they were never winning the fake classes case (unfortunately).

A sad day for UNC, the NCAA and college athletics in general. There have been a lot of sad days for all three but really at this point we are simply waiting to see how low they can go. Even if they technically "won" UNC will forever more be UNCheat to me, my immediate family and a lot of the folks I know. I guess my basic thought on this was summed up long ago in an old book, Mark 8:36.

(10-13-2017 02:41 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  They spent $18 million on the court battle. They just decided to cut bait because they were never winning the fake classes case (unfortunately).

I honestly don't even care if they just put a cursory effort into defending whatever punishment they might have dolled out. The symbolism and public spectacle of levying a harsh penalty, even if it couldn't be enforced, would have brought far more legitimacy to the NCAA than cowering in the corner and admitting that they can't do anything about the biggest cheating scandal in the history of college athletics.

Big shocker.

Anyone think a non p-5 would have received similar treatment?

The NCAA is easily one of the most vile organizations in the entire country, arbitrarily deciding young kids futures with an iron fist and then giving slaps on the wrist to favored sons to preserve their cash cow.

Disgusting.

Never understood the UNC hate here, of all places, but whatever. No skin off my...nose. This isn't a UNC board and we all need someone to hate (I guess?).


https://twitter.com/JayBilas/status/918846670019989504


Briefly: you can't bend the by-laws to fit the facts. There is not a by-law that covers ANY of this. There were very, very similar cases at Auburn (psy) and Michigan (soc) and the NCAA determined there were no violations at those schools-- just as they did today. In the Michigan case, students just had to create a calendar to receive academic credit.

My personal opinion is that it is also jacked up to allow academic credit for for athletic performance. Zero academic rigor, but at Nebraska, for example, you can get 10% of your degree by playing a sport, where the athletic department controls both your access and your grade (both are considered no-nos). Two former ODU baseball players I know IRL have told me this was practice at ODU as well.

The NCAA absolutely does not want to be in the business of determining the suitability of classes, How does a class at ODU stack up against Shenandoah stack up against dook?

Read @WalterByers on Twitter. There's a fair amount of crap about NCAA officials, etc, to discount but he does a decent job of outlining why the NCAA had no case, the evolution of the NOA's, etc. Start way back in the beginning and work towards the present.

I don't expect to sway anyone's opinion, but it sounds like most of you forged yours from N&O headlines.

I doubt I'll weigh-in again as I know this is an unpopular opinion. Have fun storming the castle!

I admire your effort in deflecting the utterly disgusting nature of what UNC did as both an athletic program and an academic institution.

Also, there were several other infractions that surfaced during the investigation that you conveniently forget to address.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

(10-13-2017 10:00 PM)Grommet Wrote:  Never understood the UNC hate here, of all places, but whatever. No skin off my...nose. This isn't a UNC board and we all need someone to hate (I guess?).


https://twitter.com/JayBilas/status/918846670019989504


Briefly: you can't bend the by-laws to fit the facts. There is not a by-law that covers ANY of this. There were very, very similar cases at Auburn (psy) and Michigan (soc) and the NCAA determined there were no violations at those schools-- just as they did today. In the Michigan case, students just had to create a calendar to receive academic credit.

My personal opinion is that it is also jacked up to allow academic credit for for athletic performance. Zero academic rigor, but at Nebraska, for example, you can get 10% of your degree by playing a sport, where the athletic department controls both your access and your grade (both are considered no-nos). Two former ODU baseball players I know IRL have told me this was practice at ODU as well.

The NCAA absolutely does not want to be in the business of determining the suitability of classes, How does a class at ODU stack up against Shenandoah stack up against dook?

Read @WalterByers on Twitter. There's a fair amount of crap about NCAA officials, etc, to discount but he does a decent job of outlining why the NCAA had no case, the evolution of the NOA's, etc. Start way back in the beginning and work towards the present.

I don't expect to sway anyone's opinion, but it sounds like most of you forged yours from N&O headlines.

I doubt I'll weigh-in again as I know this is an unpopular opinion. Have fun storming the castle!

IMO the academic situation is something that should be looked at from an accreditation standpoint, not athletics.

IF the only people who took these courses were athletes I would absolutely believe that the NCAA should have dropped the hammer, but I believe it was a 50/50 split.

I took some bird classes in college with my teammates... that we were told about by other athletes.

The fact that Donte Hill lost an entire season of eligibility because he played 8 minutes in a closed-door scrimmage while the NCAA can do nothing about 18 years of fake classes at UNC tells us the system is broken.

(10-13-2017 11:11 PM)Justanodufan Wrote:  

(10-13-2017 10:00 PM)Grommet Wrote:  Never understood the UNC hate here, of all places, but whatever. No skin off my...nose. This isn't a UNC board and we all need someone to hate (I guess?).


https://twitter.com/JayBilas/status/918846670019989504


Briefly: you can't bend the by-laws to fit the facts. There is not a by-law that covers ANY of this. There were very, very similar cases at Auburn (psy) and Michigan (soc) and the NCAA determined there were no violations at those schools-- just as they did today. In the Michigan case, students just had to create a calendar to receive academic credit.

My personal opinion is that it is also jacked up to allow academic credit for for athletic performance. Zero academic rigor, but at Nebraska, for example, you can get 10% of your degree by playing a sport, where the athletic department controls both your access and your grade (both are considered no-nos). Two former ODU baseball players I know IRL have told me this was practice at ODU as well.

The NCAA absolutely does not want to be in the business of determining the suitability of classes, How does a class at ODU stack up against Shenandoah stack up against dook?

Read @WalterByers on Twitter. There's a fair amount of crap about NCAA officials, etc, to discount but he does a decent job of outlining why the NCAA had no case, the evolution of the NOA's, etc. Start way back in the beginning and work towards the present.

I don't expect to sway anyone's opinion, but it sounds like most of you forged yours from N&O headlines.

I doubt I'll weigh-in again as I know this is an unpopular opinion. Have fun storming the castle!

IMO the academic situation is something that should be looked at from an accreditation standpoint, not athletics.

IF the only people who took these courses were athletes I would absolutely believe that the NCAA should have dropped the hammer, but I believe it was a 50/50 split.

I took some bird classes in college with my teammates... that we were told about by other athletes.

Good post and explanation of the situation. UNC haters around here (central NC) wanted championship banners taken down, needless to say they are incensed with the decision.

And for the UNC fan that is categorizng this as ODU hate, the facts are being discussed on message boards from coast to coast. But I'm confident that they are all wrong.

Same case, G5 school...no questions or delays. Let's just call it what it really is.

Larranaga says that he is coach #3, but he did not do anything wrong...
Sounds like the beginning of the end for ole Jim.

(10-13-2017 11:20 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Unfortunately the NCAA's hands were tied due to UNC letting every student take fake classes. Interesting concept. Maybe Pitino should have just been handing out checks to regular students

Even that argument is very misleading. Athletes (scholarship or not) get first choice of classes before regular students can enroll. This is so classes can fit in with their practice/game schedule. I guarantee you that these classes filled up before the general population could enroll.

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(09-27-2017 09:04 AM)jumpshooter Wrote:  So you are suggesting an across-the-board set of admission standards, applicable to every NCAA school? So UNLV and W&M would have to have the same admissions criteria? How could that possibly work?

Isn't that what we have now for athletes? W&M coaches may have to be more selective because their athletes actually have to be able to do the coursework to stay eligible (unless they have UNC type cheat programs), but admission is the same. I don't believe for a moment that if the number 1 basketball recruit with a C average wanted to go play at W&M, they wouldn't find a way for him to get in.

Some schools do play fast and loose with the numbers though, and it is a risk to bring on too many under achievers because it will bring the team GPA down.

Coaches at W&M would vehemently disagree with you. Had you used Georgetown for your example . . .

I haven't read all pages of this so if someone else said this I am not stealing. I apologize. But it all comes down to one simple thing. The NCAA has ALWAYS operated on one single guiding principle. "Money talks and integrity walks". PERIOD.