(10-11-2017 11:37 AM)Bull Wrote:  Firstly, you elitist blue blood CFP fans crack me up... Times change, get with it, grow up, deal with it. You now have BIG universities playing football that have the capacity to routinely beat 'Power' schools. Deal with it. The arbitrary and artificial line that separates the 'P5' is just that... We all know the obvious hangers on in the P conferences... and we all know the obvious 'power programs' in the 'G5', as defined by enrollment, facilities, on the field success.

It might be an "artificial" line between the P5 and G5, but it certainly isn't arbitrary. It's about as crystal clear of a line as there can be.

Quote:Houston beat 7 of its last 8 'P5' opponents... they were perfect until they lost by a field goal to Texas Tech. Grow up and deal with the new reality, it's 2017 for crissakes. Understand that 95% of real fans in the seats and on TV DO NOT FOLLOW TV CONTRACTS. That's just you message board wonks... Most fans understand that if UH and UCF win New Years bowls against TOP 'P5' teams... then your arbitrary conference lines are (speaking of the AAC primarily, and perhaps some MWC schools) a fantasy created to protect MONEY. Too bad it's not working out so well...

Of course 95% of the fans don't follow this stuff, but it's not about the message board wonks. The university presidents that determine the futures of conferences and schools are the ones that follow this stuff... and they're the only ones that matter.

Quote:Regarding USF and UCF, I would much rather see the AAC with a playoff path, than I would see one or two AAC schools get some sort of 'golden ticket'. That's a real solution to the obvious problem. Figure out a way to include SDSU, Boise, Houston, Cinci, USF, UCF, etc etc... and you will have had a fair realignment. Keeping it turf and politics, and greed, creates the current obvious nonsense...

How is the AAC getting a playoff path, which I take to mean "power" status? It takes a New Year's Six contract bowl... and that is determined PURELY on money, TV contracts, prestige and power. These bowls didn't even want to associate themselves with the old Big East that still had West Virginia, Syracuse, Pitt and Louisville under the old BCS system! Plus, look how far Boise State has gotten with all of its on-the-field success over the past decade EVEN with excellent TV ratings (which is actually something that university presidents care more about than wins and losses): absolutely nowhere when it comes to the conference realignment game.

And that's exactly what it is: a GAME. That game simply isn't set up based on the on-the-field criteria that most G5 schools want no matter how much people want to argue that it should be played by different rules. This is how we could conceivably get a school like Tulane actually being a more viable P5 candidate than a whole slew of superior on-the-field schools. So, I understand the frustration that this is how the game is played, but it is what it is.

B-12 was bluffing [or at the least appearance of it] with Tulane
how can you be smart enough to run Rice, but dumb enough to think B-12 wants to talk
horse & pony show to extort more money from TV,

Looking at the P5 + Notre Dame .... what's in a name?

Public using state name related athletic brand - (46)
Wash, Wash St, Oregon, OR St, Cal, AZ, AZ St, Utah, Colorado
Iowa St, Kansas, K St, OU, Okla St, Texas, Texas Tech, West Virginia
Minnesota, Iowa, Nebraska, Wisconsin, Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Mich St, Ohio St, Penn St, Maryland
Virginia, Virginia Tech, North Carolina, NC St, GA Tech, FL St
Missouri, Kentucky, Texas A&M, Arkansas, LSU, Ole Miss, Miss St, Alabama, Tennessee, Georgia, Florida, South Carolina

Public using state - city acronym athletic brand - (1)
UCLA

Public using city name related athletic brand - (2)
Louisville, Pittsburgh

Public otherwise using school name athletic brand - (4)
Purdue, Auburn, Clemson, Rutgers

Private using state name related athletic brand - (2)
U Southern Cal, Texas Christian

Private using state - city acronym athletic brand - (0)
none

Private using city name related athletic brand - (3)
Syracuse, Boston College, Miami

Private otherwise using school name athletic brand - (7)
Stanford, Baylor, Northwestern, Duke, Wake Forest, Notre Dame, Vanderbilt

(10-11-2017 12:10 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Looking at the P5 + Notre Dame .... what's in a name?

Public using state name related athletic brand - (46)
Wash, Wash St, Oregon, OR St, Cal, AZ, AZ St, Utah, Colorado
Iowa St, Kansas, K St, OU, Okla St, Texas, Texas Tech, West Virginia
Minnesota, Iowa, Nebraska, Wisconsin, Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Mich St, Ohio St, Penn St, Maryland
Virginia, Virginia Tech, North Carolina, NC St, GA Tech, FL St
Missouri, Kentucky, Texas A&M, Arkansas, LSU, Ole Miss, Miss St, Alabama, Tennessee, Georgia, Florida, South Carolina

Public using state - city acronym athletic brand - (1)
UCLA

Public using city name related athletic brand - (2)
Louisville, Pittsburgh, Auburn, Clemson

Public otherwise using school name athletic brand - (4)
Purdue, Rutgers

Private using state name related athletic brand - (2)
U Southern Cal, Texas Christian

Private using state - city acronym athletic brand - (0)
none

Private using city name related athletic brand - (3)
Syracuse, Boston College, Miami

Private otherwise using school name athletic brand - (7)
Stanford, Baylor, Northwestern, Duke, Wake Forest, Notre Dame, Vanderbilt

FIFY

Also to note, Wake Forest used to be in Wake Forest, North Carolina

I can buy that Alabama Polytech was renamed Auburn after the name of the city, in the 1960's.

But Clemson very clearly does not have a similar history. The city of Clemson was renamed in the 1940's, after the university, which was founded in the late 1800's with the name Clemson, the family name of the university's founder.

If anything, that data leads more evidence towards a separation, not an inclusion:

The AAC is 4-9 against P5 schools this year, and 27-66 since organizing in 2013 against the P5. The AAC has only placed two teams (2013 UCF - Fiesta, and 2015 Houston - Peach) in NY6 Bowl games, and carries a dreadful 8-17 record in bowl games in that time span.

(10-11-2017 01:22 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  If anything, that data leads more evidence towards a separation, not an inclusion:

The AAC is 4-9 against P5 schools this year, and 27-66 since organizing in 2013 against the P5. The AAC has only placed two teams (2013 UCF - Fiesta, and 2015 Houston - Peach) in NY6 Bowl games, and carries a dreadful 8-17 record in bowl games in that time span.

So the conference has struggled with 1/4 of the exposure, budget, and access from people who aspire to keep it that way; I'm shocked, shocked I tell you.

i'm not sure name of school matters
USF) young program, not drawing well, acadmics, tv ratings[?], fla schools holding them back, # of alumni, endowment
ECU) would be 5th school from NC
SoMiss) TV market

i like all 3 schools, i'm just sayen there other holes in resume
USF can grow into p6 school, B-12 desperate, thier getting close

(10-11-2017 01:22 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  If anything, that data leads more evidence towards a separation, not an inclusion:

The AAC is 4-9 against P5 schools this year, and 27-66 since organizing in 2013 against the P5. The AAC has only placed two teams (2013 UCF - Fiesta, and 2015 Houston - Peach) in NY6 Bowl games, and carries a dreadful 8-17 record in bowl games in that time span.

Let's not forget in 2013, it was the last year of the BCS and the AAC champ regardless of record, was contracted to play the Big East's automatic bid. In the CFP era, Boise State, Houston and Western Michigan have played in NY6 bowls.

Do they keep their coaches more than 2-3 years would be the key answer to this question. Many thank Frost will be gone this year. If Strong has a good year after Flowers, does he turn down a P5 offer?

(10-11-2017 01:57 PM)msm96wolf Wrote:  Do they keep their coaches more than 2-3 years would be the key answer to this question. Many thank Frost will be gone this year. If Strong has a good year after Flowers, does he turn down a P5 offer?

Frost will only leave for a high profile P5 job. Oregon state or those like them, the bottom feeders of the P5 need not apply

(10-11-2017 11:53 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(10-11-2017 11:37 AM)Bull Wrote:  Firstly, you elitist blue blood CFP fans crack me up... Times change, get with it, grow up, deal with it. You now have BIG universities playing football that have the capacity to routinely beat 'Power' schools. Deal with it. The arbitrary and artificial line that separates the 'P5' is just that... We all know the obvious hangers on in the P conferences... and we all know the obvious 'power programs' in the 'G5', as defined by enrollment, facilities, on the field success.

It might be an "artificial" line between the P5 and G5, but it certainly isn't arbitrary. It's about as crystal clear of a line as there can be.

Quote:Houston beat 7 of its last 8 'P5' opponents... they were perfect until they lost by a field goal to Texas Tech. Grow up and deal with the new reality, it's 2017 for crissakes. Understand that 95% of real fans in the seats and on TV DO NOT FOLLOW TV CONTRACTS. That's just you message board wonks... Most fans understand that if UH and UCF win New Years bowls against TOP 'P5' teams... then your arbitrary conference lines are (speaking of the AAC primarily, and perhaps some MWC schools) a fantasy created to protect MONEY. Too bad it's not working out so well...

Of course 95% of the fans don't follow this stuff, but it's not about the message board wonks. The university presidents that determine the futures of conferences and schools are the ones that follow this stuff... and they're the only ones that matter.

Quote:Regarding USF and UCF, I would much rather see the AAC with a playoff path, than I would see one or two AAC schools get some sort of 'golden ticket'. That's a real solution to the obvious problem. Figure out a way to include SDSU, Boise, Houston, Cinci, USF, UCF, etc etc... and you will have had a fair realignment. Keeping it turf and politics, and greed, creates the current obvious nonsense...

How is the AAC getting a playoff path, which I take to mean "power" status? It takes a New Year's Six contract bowl... and that is determined PURELY on money, TV contracts, prestige and power. These bowls didn't even want to associate themselves with the old Big East that still had West Virginia, Syracuse, Pitt and Louisville under the old BCS system! Plus, look how far Boise State has gotten with all of its on-the-field success over the past decade EVEN with excellent TV ratings (which is actually something that university presidents care more about than wins and losses): absolutely nowhere when it comes to the conference realignment game.

And that's exactly what it is: a GAME. That game simply isn't set up based on the on-the-field criteria that most G5 schools want no matter how much people want to argue that it should be played by different rules. This is how we could conceivably get a school like Tulane actually being a more viable P5 candidate than a whole slew of superior on-the-field schools. So, I understand the frustration that this is how the game is played, but it is what it is.

If you think there is a "crystal clear" line between the P5 and the G5, with the AAC racking up wins against the P5... then I cannot help you. You routinely use vague terms like 'Prestige' and 'Power'... taking the discussion out of fact-based and purely into opinion. You are welcome to believe whatever you choose, even if the scoreboard shows the contrary!

(10-11-2017 02:25 PM)otown Wrote:  

(10-11-2017 01:57 PM)msm96wolf Wrote:  Do they keep their coaches more than 2-3 years would be the key answer to this question. Many thank Frost will be gone this year. If Strong has a good year after Flowers, does he turn down a P5 offer?

Frost will only leave for a high profile P5 job. Oregon state or those like them, the bottom feeders of the P5 need not apply

A&M, Tennessee, Nebraska, LSU (next year), Arkansas (maybe), Texas Tech (maybe not), UNC (maybe), UCLA

(10-11-2017 02:25 PM)otown Wrote:  

(10-11-2017 01:57 PM)msm96wolf Wrote:  Do they keep their coaches more than 2-3 years would be the key answer to this question. Many thank Frost will be gone this year. If Strong has a good year after Flowers, does he turn down a P5 offer?

Frost will only leave for a high profile P5 job. Oregon state or those like them, the bottom feeders of the P5 need not apply

Given his experience at UT, one would think that if Strong left USF it would have to be for only one of a handful of jobs where he either:

(A) has a personal connection (i.e. Florida, where he was a longtime DC or Arkansas, as he is from there and played at UCA);
(B) where there are strong recruiting grounds and a chance to win conference titles but apathetic fans, hence less pressure (i.e. Miami after Richt hangs it up); or
© or another basketball-first P-5 school, like Louisville, without a long football tradition where staying above .500 in conference and making a bowl every year or two will suffice (Duke, UNC, Virginia, Kansas or the like).

Agree 100% on Frost. If Nebraska fires Mike Reilly or otherwise "suggests" that he should pursue a third go-round in Corvallis I hope Frost has the good sense to to NOT take the Huskers job. He'd be much better off waiting out SEC job --- Ole Miss is open already, the Vols may have an opening by year end, and Arkansas and Mizzou, the two teams in conference in his familiar Midwest region may well fire their coaches. Alternatively, if/when "mama calls" Dabo to replace Saban at Bama Frost could easily be candidate for Clemson given his recruiting skills. Likewise, if he wants to go back out west it don't think it will be too much longer before either UCLA, ASU or Zona have job openings.

(10-11-2017 02:43 PM)wavefan12 Wrote:  

(10-11-2017 02:25 PM)otown Wrote:  

(10-11-2017 01:57 PM)msm96wolf Wrote:  Do they keep their coaches more than 2-3 years would be the key answer to this question. Many thank Frost will be gone this year. If Strong has a good year after Flowers, does he turn down a P5 offer?

Frost will only leave for a high profile P5 job. Oregon state or those like them, the bottom feeders of the P5 need not apply

A&M, Tennessee, Nebraska, LSU (next year), Arkansas (maybe), Texas Tech (maybe not), UNC (maybe), UCLA

See one, maybe two high profile jobs on that list. He isn't going to the others. Wildcard is Nebraska.

(10-11-2017 02:53 PM)otown Wrote:  

(10-11-2017 02:43 PM)wavefan12 Wrote:  

(10-11-2017 02:25 PM)otown Wrote:  

(10-11-2017 01:57 PM)msm96wolf Wrote:  Do they keep their coaches more than 2-3 years would be the key answer to this question. Many thank Frost will be gone this year. If Strong has a good year after Flowers, does he turn down a P5 offer?

Frost will only leave for a high profile P5 job. Oregon state or those like them, the bottom feeders of the P5 need not apply

A&M, Tennessee, Nebraska, LSU (next year), Arkansas (maybe), Texas Tech (maybe not), UNC (maybe), UCLA

See one, maybe two high profile jobs on that list. He isn't going to the others. Wildcard is Nebraska.

Hmm, which would not be high profile compared to UCF? A&M, TENN, NEB, LSU, Ark UCLA. I do agree UNC and TT may not be high profile but it is higher than UCF. Also, all can pay a whole lot better and probably offer better facilities and perks to the players.

(10-11-2017 03:45 PM)msm96wolf Wrote:  

(10-11-2017 02:53 PM)otown Wrote:  

(10-11-2017 02:43 PM)wavefan12 Wrote:  

(10-11-2017 02:25 PM)otown Wrote:  

(10-11-2017 01:57 PM)msm96wolf Wrote:  Do they keep their coaches more than 2-3 years would be the key answer to this question. Many thank Frost will be gone this year. If Strong has a good year after Flowers, does he turn down a P5 offer?

Frost will only leave for a high profile P5 job. Oregon state or those like them, the bottom feeders of the P5 need not apply

A&M, Tennessee, Nebraska, LSU (next year), Arkansas (maybe), Texas Tech (maybe not), UNC (maybe), UCLA

See one, maybe two high profile jobs on that list. He isn't going to the others. Wildcard is Nebraska.

Hmm, which would not be high profile compared to UCF? A&M, TENN, NEB, LSU, Ark UCLA. I do agree UNC and TT may not be high profile but it is higher than UCF. Also, all can pay a whole lot better and probably offer better facilities and perks to the players.

Look at it this way. He seems to have a Boise like machine in the making at UCF, but in a great location right smack in the middle of a fertile recruiting location. Why in the world would he jump at an Arkansas, TT, UNC etc, when he will have to start from the bottom again and he will have a tough time recruiting there against the P5 competition which include the likes of all the high profile P5 teams. Being there three to four years pulling in 5-7 win seasons will make his shelf life short. After that, he would be demoted. However, he should know he has a good thing already in UCF, has decent facilities, great recruiting, and has built a fairly powerful program over a short period of time. Have 2-3 consecutive years in a NYD bowl with 11+ win seasons at UCF and he will have his pick of the P5. Hell, he could even be interviewing at Alabama, Ohio State (when Urban Liar fakes health issues again lol), etc and become the highest paid coach.

(10-11-2017 02:27 PM)Bull Wrote:  

(10-11-2017 11:53 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(10-11-2017 11:37 AM)Bull Wrote:  Firstly, you elitist blue blood CFP fans crack me up... Times change, get with it, grow up, deal with it. You now have BIG universities playing football that have the capacity to routinely beat 'Power' schools. Deal with it. The arbitrary and artificial line that separates the 'P5' is just that... We all know the obvious hangers on in the P conferences... and we all know the obvious 'power programs' in the 'G5', as defined by enrollment, facilities, on the field success.

It might be an "artificial" line between the P5 and G5, but it certainly isn't arbitrary. It's about as crystal clear of a line as there can be.

Quote:Houston beat 7 of its last 8 'P5' opponents... they were perfect until they lost by a field goal to Texas Tech. Grow up and deal with the new reality, it's 2017 for crissakes. Understand that 95% of real fans in the seats and on TV DO NOT FOLLOW TV CONTRACTS. That's just you message board wonks... Most fans understand that if UH and UCF win New Years bowls against TOP 'P5' teams... then your arbitrary conference lines are (speaking of the AAC primarily, and perhaps some MWC schools) a fantasy created to protect MONEY. Too bad it's not working out so well...

Of course 95% of the fans don't follow this stuff, but it's not about the message board wonks. The university presidents that determine the futures of conferences and schools are the ones that follow this stuff... and they're the only ones that matter.

Quote:Regarding USF and UCF, I would much rather see the AAC with a playoff path, than I would see one or two AAC schools get some sort of 'golden ticket'. That's a real solution to the obvious problem. Figure out a way to include SDSU, Boise, Houston, Cinci, USF, UCF, etc etc... and you will have had a fair realignment. Keeping it turf and politics, and greed, creates the current obvious nonsense...

How is the AAC getting a playoff path, which I take to mean "power" status? It takes a New Year's Six contract bowl... and that is determined PURELY on money, TV contracts, prestige and power. These bowls didn't even want to associate themselves with the old Big East that still had West Virginia, Syracuse, Pitt and Louisville under the old BCS system! Plus, look how far Boise State has gotten with all of its on-the-field success over the past decade EVEN with excellent TV ratings (which is actually something that university presidents care more about than wins and losses): absolutely nowhere when it comes to the conference realignment game.

And that's exactly what it is: a GAME. That game simply isn't set up based on the on-the-field criteria that most G5 schools want no matter how much people want to argue that it should be played by different rules. This is how we could conceivably get a school like Tulane actually being a more viable P5 candidate than a whole slew of superior on-the-field schools. So, I understand the frustration that this is how the game is played, but it is what it is.

If you think there is a "crystal clear" line between the P5 and the G5, with the AAC racking up wins against the P5... then I cannot help you. You routinely use vague terms like 'Prestige' and 'Power'... taking the discussion out of fact-based and purely into opinion. You are welcome to believe whatever you choose, even if the scoreboard shows the contrary!

But the reasons that UCF and USF would be invited to a P5 conference are due to opinions. The presidents would vote them in if they thought they (or any other schools) brought in more money, added new viewers, new recruiting areas, improved the academic prestige, and improved the athletic prestige of the conference. The presidents aren't going to automatically accept the schools with the highest attendance, or best records over the last ten years, or most alumni. This isn't a black and white issue. There are many variables and the P5 conferences are in no hurry to add anyone immediately (or at all) so they can be more selective in who it is they want.

(10-10-2017 03:51 PM)otown Wrote:  

(10-10-2017 03:46 PM)rednblackattack Wrote:  

(10-10-2017 01:36 PM)otown Wrote:  

(10-10-2017 11:51 AM)CardFan1 Wrote:  

(10-08-2017 04:47 PM)otown Wrote:  Strong words coming from a school that probably couldn't even get admitted to the Sun Belt if they had no current conference shelter.

One that still beat your Gators in the Sugar Bowl.

Yep, that team......and would it surprise anybody if the disgusting filth that the Louisville athletic depart swam in flowed through their football program as well? Teddy Bridgewater grew up in Miami and was committed to Miami. He ultimately decommitted from them and went to Louisville. Sorry, that school is toxic. Clint Hurtt flipped him and got quite a few from South Florida to go to Louisville. They even kept Hurtt on staff after the show cause penalty.

And that was not nearly as close as the final score indicated. Louisville broke Florida in that game

Yep, you were on a role and manhandled us that game. Doesn't change the fact that your program is/was dirty and it is quite possible that the win will be handed back to the NCAA just like the rest of the recent Louisville accomplishments.

You are as disillusional as some UCF folks on here. A couple of Basketball screw ups don't condem decades of Florida recruits coming to Louisville in Football. Btw UF was the first school I ever cheered for while growing up in Florida throughout the 1960 's so I know the state well and played HS at Nova HS in Ft. Lauderdale / Davie.

(10-11-2017 09:13 PM)CardFan1 Wrote:  

(10-10-2017 03:51 PM)otown Wrote:  

(10-10-2017 03:46 PM)rednblackattack Wrote:  

(10-10-2017 01:36 PM)otown Wrote:  

(10-10-2017 11:51 AM)CardFan1 Wrote:  One that still beat your Gators in the Sugar Bowl.

Yep, that team......and would it surprise anybody if the disgusting filth that the Louisville athletic depart swam in flowed through their football program as well? Teddy Bridgewater grew up in Miami and was committed to Miami. He ultimately decommitted from them and went to Louisville. Sorry, that school is toxic. Clint Hurtt flipped him and got quite a few from South Florida to go to Louisville. They even kept Hurtt on staff after the show cause penalty.

And that was not nearly as close as the final score indicated. Louisville broke Florida in that game

Yep, you were on a role and manhandled us that game. Doesn't change the fact that your program is/was dirty and it is quite possible that the win will be handed back to the NCAA just like the rest of the recent Louisville accomplishments.

You are as disillusional as some UCF folks on here. A couple of Basketball screw ups don't condem decades of Florida recruits coming to Louisville in Football. Btw UF was the first school I ever cheered for while growing up in Florida throughout the 1960 's so I know the state well and played HS at Nova HS in Ft. Lauderdale / Davie.

I'm sorry, but Clint Hurtt hand delivered the Miami recruits. Hell, that's why he was recruiter of the year........ until he got a show cause penalty. I don't know, it seems easy to connect the dots and it's quite obvious how impotent the NCAA is with investigating.