If we're going to dance, let's dance: Disband all G5 football conferences and let the teams eat what they kill. With a handful of exceptions, most G5 schools want a better situation. Maybe everyone just tries to carve their own path.

(09-19-2017 12:48 PM)ESE84 Wrote:  

(09-19-2017 10:20 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  lol...thats what I keep thinking. A Texas based core with Arky St matches the old SWC footprint. Add some Louisiana schools (maybe a Bama/Miss school or 2) and you're set. UTEP goes west to the MW. Now you have a nice neat easy travel conference that can develop some nice hate filled rivalries. The UTSA vs Tx St rivalry will be good---but that ULL vs LaTech thing could be veeeeery fun to watch. lol...they hate each other in a special way. Should be a perfect fit for a regional TV network like Fox Sports SW.

UTSA
N Texas
Texas St
Rice
Arky St
LaTech
ULL
S Miss
UAB
Troy

This is not enticing to UAB if most of the C-USA basketball powers are elsewhere. We need UTEP for basketball, and it is probably ok if the New Mexico State basketball program comes along, also.

You are going to be in a one bid league no matter how you shuffle them. Basketball is along for the ride.

If I was named college FB Czar

B1G:

East- PSU, Rutgers, Maryland, UConn, Virginia

West- Texas, OU, KU, Nebraska, Iowa

South- Indiana, Purdue, Illinois, Notre Dame, Ohio State

North- Minny, Wisc, NW, Michigan, MSU

SEC:

East- UF, FSU, UGA, USC, UNC

West- A&M, TCU, Arkansas, OSU, Mizzou

South- Bama, Auburn, Miss St, Ole Miss, LSU

North- WVU, Tennessee, Vandy, UK, VT

Pac-20:

East- Colorado, KSU, ISU, Utah, BYU

West- Cal, Stanford, USC, UCLA, Hawaii

South- ASU, UA, T Tech, Houston, UNLV

North- Oregon, OSU, Washington, WSU, Boise St.

ACC:

East- NC St, Duke, WF, ECU, Navy

West- Louisville, Cincy, Memphis, Baylor, SMU

South- Miami, GT, Clemson, UCF, USF

North- BC, Pitt, Cuse, Temple, Army

AAC:

East- James Madison, ODU, Richmond, Charolette, App State

West- Tulsa, UTSA, North Texas, Rice, Texas State

South- Tulane, USM, UAB, FIU, FAU

North- Marshall, WKU, Middle Tenn, Missouri St, Chattanooga

MWC:

East- Air Force, Wyoming, Utah State, Weber St, Colorado St

West- San Diego St, Fresno, San Jose, Cal Poly, San Diego

South- New Mexico, New Mexico St, UTEP, Northern Arizona, Nevada

North- Idaho, Eastern Washington, Montana, Portland, Montana St

CUSA:

East- Wofford, William & Mary, Liberty, Coastal Carolina, Eastern Kentucky

West- Troy, So. Alabama, Jacksonville St, Louisiana Monroe, Louisiana Lafayette

South- Georgia St, Georgia Southern, Citadel, Western Carolina, Charleston Southern

North- Arkansas State, Central Arkansas, La Tech, Sam Houston, Stephen F Austin

MAC:

East- Buffalo, UMass, Delaware, New Hampshire, Maine

West- South Dakota State, North Dakota State, Northern Iowa, N. Illinois, Ball State

South- Youngstown, Kent, Miami, Ohio, Akron

North- CMU, WMU, EMU, Toledo, Bowling Green

Quote:If I was named college FB Czar

That's a fine team/location setup -- but not feasible, having 20 teams to a conference. You can't really go lower than 3 OOC games a year.

So if 20 in a conference with 4 divisions of 5...

Schedule Breakdown:
3 - OCC
4 - Divisional Games
5 - Outer-Divisional Games Among *15*

Playing only 1 division's worth out of 3 other divisions in your conference -- just makes one want to split the conference. IMO, conferences shouldn't be more than 12. 14 I roll my eyes at, but whatever. 16+ is where it gets weird. The winner of the conference isn't So convincingly the winner, when it's a dogfight to the top. You're almost having like a mini NFC & AFC within the same conference. Unless they'd make regular season 16 games and not 12, I wouldn't like a 20-team-conference setup.

(09-19-2017 04:48 PM)toddjnsn Wrote:  

Quote:If I was named college FB Czar

That's a fine team/location setup -- but not feasible, having 20 teams to a conference. You can't really go lower than 3 OOC games a year.

So if 20 in a conference with 4 divisions of 5...

Schedule Breakdown:
3 - OCC
4 - Divisional Games
5 - Outer-Divisional Games Among *15*

Playing only 1 division's worth out of 3 other divisions in your conference -- just makes one want to split the conference. IMO, conferences shouldn't be more than 12. 14 I roll my eyes at, but whatever. 16+ is where it gets weird. The winner of the conference isn't So convincingly the winner, when it's a dogfight to the top. You're almost having like a mini NFC & AFC within the same conference. Unless they'd make regular season 16 games and not 12, I wouldn't like a 20-team-conference setup.

Well the thread I came up with this list originally for I stated the season would be extended to 13 games and no more FBS vs FCS games would be allowed.

4 division games and a H&H with two teams from each other division gives you 10 conference games and 3 OOC games.

In this type of set up it's all about winning you division and getting into the conference playoff. The divisional games all become much more heated. Rivalries blossom since you have less teams you play every single year, so the few you do become much more important to the program. It lets the bad blood build up.

(09-19-2017 03:08 PM)DETLTU Wrote:  Football competitiveness
Basketball Competitiveness
Geographic proximity
Academic/ Brand prestige

If you realign for any one of these reasons, you are going to get a mixed bag on the others.
Past realignment also factored in Market size and growth potential. Market size is for sure a bust as it hasn't helped with TV deals or fan interest. Growth potential has been a mixed bag.

It's honestly astonishing how bad CUSA got by expanding. I bet the MWC is happy they did not go through with that horrid merger idea.

So. There are some good programs.. and some traditional programs... so CUSA still has some strengths. Marshall and Southern Miss have been very strong football programs traditionally. Rice has a hell of a football history and some good success under Bailiff. La Tech has been strong recently and has some decent history. You have some up and comers like WKU and Middle Tennessee... not to mention ODU and UTSA

There are some good things about the conference but overall there are too many teams... bad bowl tie ins and the Florida teams are just not bringing anything to the table... If CUSA could drop down to 9 or ten teams it might be much stronger.

Quote:In this type of set up it's all about winning you division and getting into the conference playoff. The divisional games all become much more heated.

Yeah, that's a good point. Would change the nature of college football, that's for sure. But obviously with that positive. Each conference would be like having two smaller conferences in One.

So 13 regular season games + 2 potential Conf Championship Games (instead of 1). So basically, not Up to 13 like now, but Up to 15 total games.

I don't think the non-FCS rule would matter in said scheme -- and I don't think it would be actually feasible, to be quite honest (for the G5s). IMO, that part's neither here nor there.

PERSONALLY, I like to see a lot of conference vs conference games. Bottling up even a higher % of games within a conference, with a higher amount of teams in said conference, IMO, takes away from things some. But that setup would be interesting to see play out.

G6 idea:

WAC invites UNM, Air Force, UTSA, North Texas, UTEP, Rice, SMU, Houston, Navy (football only). NMSU obviously stays put, and UMKC, Grand Canyon, and UTRGV stay behind as non-football members.

MWC stays at 10
American invites UMass (all sports) and VCU (no football)
C-USA stays at 10
MAC stays at 12
SBC stays at 10 (plus non-football members Little Rock and Texas-Arlington)

As far as the rest of the WAC:
Mountain West invites Seattle (no football)
Big Sky invites Utah Valley and Cal Baptist after Northern Colorado joins the Summit
Big West invites CSU Bakersfield, plus UCSD from Division II

The G6 conferences all play 8 conference games. The six regular season champions face each other with one of the three winners landing in the New Year's Six. The other two "bracket buster" winners play each other in another bowl game.

(09-19-2017 09:07 PM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  

(09-19-2017 03:08 PM)DETLTU Wrote:  Football competitiveness
Basketball Competitiveness
Geographic proximity
Academic/ Brand prestige

If you realign for any one of these reasons, you are going to get a mixed bag on the others.
Past realignment also factored in Market size and growth potential. Market size is for sure a bust as it hasn't helped with TV deals or fan interest. Growth potential has been a mixed bag.

It's honestly astonishing how bad CUSA got by expanding. I bet the MWC is happy they did not go through with that horrid merger idea.

Conference records of CUSA additions two seasons prior to admission
Round 1.
UNT 7-9 (Sun Belt)
FIU 11-5 (Sun Belt)
LTU 10-5 (WAC)
ODU 6-2 (CAA FCS conference)
UTSA 4-2 (FCS independent)
Charlotte 0-0 (non-football)

Round 2
MTSU 7-9 (Sun Belt)
FAU 2-14 (Sun Belt)

Round 3
WKU 11-5

FIU was trending downward (went 2-6 year after accepting CUSA), UNT was a mess (3-5 after accepting CUSA), FAU just was bad (2-6 final SBC year), La Tech was transitioning great year in 2011 ahead of accepting after Boise left. 2012 went 4-2 in WAC lacking Boise, Nevada, Fresno).

Of the 6 added that were already FBS La.Tech, MTSU, WKU were trending well, UNT, FIU, FAU trending poorly.
UTSA and ODU were having to transition to FBS while Charlotte was working on adding football.

Three resume adds, six adds based on markets/potential.

(09-20-2017 09:00 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  Three resume adds, six adds based on markets/potential.

I reckon the F_U's also based on recruiting grounds after losing UCF. But you simply trim the FIU's, swing UAB to the East, you have a stronger conference and two more coherent divisions. Plus play everyone in your division four times in a four year cycle & cross division twice in a four year cycle.

(09-20-2017 09:42 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(09-20-2017 09:00 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  Three resume adds, six adds based on markets/potential.

I reckon the F_U's also based on recruiting grounds after losing UCF. But you simply trim the FIU's, swing UAB to the East, you have a stronger conference and two more coherent divisions. Plus play everyone in your division four times in a four year cycle & cross division twice in a four year cycle.

exactly. Charlotte needs to go as well. UTEP is dying in the new CUSA... they would do much better in the MWC...imo.

There are probably individual schools in CUSA that would be better off being independent for football versus being in CUSA. With no TV money, the only thing they would be missing out on is the CFP share of funds and Access Bowl opportunity.

I wonder what Marshall, UAB, USM, Rice, and UTEP would have done if they knew they'd be the ones left in C-USA after the expansion?

It's not like they lost all 7 members at once--first it was Houston, UCF, & SMU, then came the Memphis announcement, later ECU and Tulane got the call up, and last came Tulsa. Each time they lost a school they hurried to announce a replacement without knowing what the end picture was going to look like.

Knowing what we know now Marshall might have decided the MAC was a more suitable option while Rice and UTEP might have wiggled their way into the MWC, leaving USM and UAB to join the Sunbelt.

Or perhaps we see a rebuild that is less aggressive and more about building a stable product for the future than a scramble to replace markets. ECU was pushing hard for Charlotte and ODU so they had more schools in the footprint near them. Without ECU around are these adds even necessary? Then there are the Florida schools--I think that everyone in C-USA panicked when they lost UCF and there was an urgency to get back in the state at all costs and the cost was picking up not one but two programs with "potential" but very little fan support on field success that stretched the footprint to very southern tip of Florida.

The sad thing for C-USA is that post expansion the paradigm changed. Markets didn't mean crap for G5s anymore and the playoff money went from being capped at 1 million/school for up to 12 schools to 1 million/school for up to 10. It no longer paid to be big and all of the new "projects" they took in were no longer carrying their weight.

Texas makes a deal with the ACC similar to Notre Dame's. Oklahoma and Kansas join the SEC (Missouri moves to the West, Alabama and Auburn move to the East).

The Big XII, no longer considered a major conference, adds Cincinnati, Houston and Memphis. The AAC adds Rice. C-USA and the Sun Belt reorganize:

Sun Belt

Appalachian State
Coastal Carolina
Georgia Southern
Georgia State
James Madison
Marshall
Middle Tennessee
North Carolina-Charlotte
Old Dominion
Western Kentucky

Conference USA

Alabama-Birmingham
Arkansas State
North Texas
Louisiana Tech
Louisiana-Lafayette
South Alabama
Southern Mississippi
Texas State
Texas-San Antonio
Troy

Rice - gone to AAC

Left out:

FAU, FIU - Atlantic Sun/FBS Independent
ULM - Southland
UTEP - WAC/FBS Independent

(09-20-2017 04:49 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I wonder what Marshall, UAB, USM, Rice, and UTEP would have done if they knew they'd be the ones left in C-USA after the expansion?

It's not like they lost all 7 members at once--first it was Houston, UCF, & SMU, then came the Memphis announcement, later ECU and Tulane got the call up, and last came Tulsa. Each time they lost a school they hurried to announce a replacement without knowing what the end picture was going to look like.

Knowing what we know now Marshall might have decided the MAC was a more suitable option while Rice and UTEP might have wiggled their way into the MWC, leaving USM and UAB to join the Sunbelt.

Or perhaps we see a rebuild that is less aggressive and more about building a stable product for the future than a scramble to replace markets. ECU was pushing hard for Charlotte and ODU so they had more schools in the footprint near them. Without ECU around are these adds even necessary? Then there are the Florida schools--I think that everyone in C-USA panicked when they lost UCF and there was an urgency to get back in the state at all costs and the cost was picking up not one but two programs with "potential" but very little fan support on field success that stretched the footprint to very southern tip of Florida.

The sad thing for C-USA is that post expansion the paradigm changed. Markets didn't mean crap for G5s anymore and the playoff money went from being capped at 1 million/school for up to 12 schools to 1 million/school for up to 10. It no longer paid to be big and all of the new "projects" they took in were no longer carrying their weight.

Based on a number of conversations, I don't believe "markets" were driving things as much as was claimed but rather a means to explain how a committee tasked with drawing a horse produced a camel.

I've talked to a friend at ESPN Events (formerly ESPN Regional) an administrator at a CUSA school, and a retired administrator and they say the expansion process started with a general consensus they would add North Texas to get to 9 but might compromise and FIU to make it 10.

Two things intervened.
One. Terry Holland secured the support of Marshall and ECU to block expansion unless two more eastern teams were added. ODU and Charlotte were the front-runners but MTSU, FAU, James Madison and App State were others considered in the event anything derailed one or both of the others. They envisioned an Eastern Division of: ECU, Marshall, FIU, Charlotte, ODU, and UAB with the West being: UTEP, Rice, Tulane UNT, Tulsa, USM.
Two. Louisiana Tech had been dismissed in the initial consideration because they were smaller market wise and feared they would be blamed for collapsing the WAC, Craig Thompson informed Bankowsky they were moving on the WAC and the mood changed.

Much like the infamous WAC meeting to go to 12 that resulted in going to 16, going to 14 became the easiest way to sort things out.

Replacing ECU and Tulane with MTSU and FAU was to a degree a knee-jerk reaction and to a degree keeping the league in position to go to 16 which remained on the table as an option.

Then WKU replaced Tulsa.

Bankowsky then began lobbying to go on to 16 wanting Arkansas State and Louisiana-Lafayette to permit UAB to go east. The eastern members balked wanting JMU to be added with only one western school and with that expansion fizzled out.

Now had Boise and SDSU returned to MWC sooner and Big 10 grabbed Maryland sooner would things have gone differently? Most likely so.

(09-20-2017 04:49 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  The sad thing for C-USA is that post expansion the paradigm changed. Markets didn't mean crap for G5s anymore and the playoff money went from being capped at 1 million/school for up to 12 schools to 1 million/school for up to 10. It no longer paid to be big and all of the new "projects" they took in were no longer carrying their weight.

I am not defending the C-USA decisions, but noting two of the added "project" programs, UTSA and Old Dominion, look to have been very good additions.

(09-21-2017 05:49 AM)ESE84 Wrote:  

(09-20-2017 04:49 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  The sad thing for C-USA is that post expansion the paradigm changed. Markets didn't mean crap for G5s anymore and the playoff money went from being capped at 1 million/school for up to 12 schools to 1 million/school for up to 10. It no longer paid to be big and all of the new "projects" they took in were no longer carrying their weight.

I am not defending the C-USA decisions, but noting two of the added "project" programs, UTSA and Old Dominion, look to have been very good additions.

I think they are quality additions if your target is to add schools who can be competitive, but the spin when they were added was about maximizing television revenue. Under that measure there was no one CUSA could convince to join that would preserve or enhance television value so all additions beyond 10 were bad choices.

(09-15-2017 10:08 AM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote:  Yes, USM, MT, La Tech, ODU, Marshall and wkcc need to start putting plans in place to split off picking up three or four other programs (at least one would have to come from current C-USA).

Here's the problem. The revised NCAA by-laws require continuity between seven teams over eight years for automatic bids. Depending on how you interpret that it means that either the new league would not be able to receive an auto-big until eight years after the league was formed OR it means continuity between programs can be established in a current league so long as the seven have been together for eight years. I interpret as the latter, because there is nothing in the by-laws that strictly states a new conference has to wait eight years after forming.

So, for us that would mean 2021 at the earliest (or 2022 if wkcc is the seventh - which isn't likely since the make up of a new conference would almost definitely include a mix of UAB or Charlotte or one of the Fla schools).

Reshuffling C-USA with Sun Belt does not fix the broader problem, which is a combination of terrible performance at the bottom of the conference plus sprawling geographic membership. All a reshuffle would do would be to fix the sprawling issue, but both would still have terrible performance at the bottom.

You may have a different opinion on the schools, but I believe the six I listed above are the six that are most committed to field competitive football and basketball and know how to do it. There is maybe one or two teams out of the Sun Belt or MAC that would be worth targeting to fill out the league (like Ohio). Perhaps Appy or South Alabama?? Those three or four teams would be hard to pick, but if you took the best of C-USA and dropped down to only a nine or 10 team conference you have a very competitive and competent league.

Not if you revise each conference along geographical lines. The conferences remain in tact as do the bids.

Sun Belt - Western based conference

Ark State, N. Texas, LA Tech, UAB, S. Miss, S. Alabama, Louisiana, Rice, TX State, UTSA, UTEP, NMSU

CUSA - Eastern based conference

Marshall, MT, WKU, ODU, Charlotte, App State, GA State, GA Southern, Coastal Carolina, FIU, FAU, Troy

(09-21-2017 12:54 PM)HoustonCajun Wrote:  Not if you revise each conference along geographical lines. The conferences remain in tact as do the bids.

Sun Belt - Western based conference

Ark State, N. Texas, LA Tech, UAB, S. Miss, S. Alabama, Louisiana, Rice, TX State, UTSA, UTEP, NMSU

CUSA - Eastern based conference

Marshall, MT, WKU, ODU, Charlotte, App State, GA State, GA Southern, Coastal Carolina, FIU, FAU, Troy

Swap UAB and Troy.