(09-17-2017 05:58 PM)CMUprof Wrote:  Reading the article it looked like CMU voted to allow for a vote to take place that would let a member to drop football then abstained when EMU was considered to be the one to be dropped. Kind of like McCain voting to allow the repeal of the ACA to take place but then voting against it (sort of like that anyway). At the very least it seems CMU didn't vote to retain EMU but also didn't vote to expel since they abstained. At least that's the way I interpreted the article. Thanks for digging it up masttg.

Just fyi.... it's going on our bulletin board that CMU wanted EMU out of the MAC. Should be a good game at CMU and we look forward to our visit there this season.

(09-17-2017 09:23 PM)Luckeyone Wrote:  

(09-17-2017 05:58 PM)CMUprof Wrote:  Reading the article it looked like CMU voted to allow for a vote to take place that would let a member to drop football then abstained when EMU was considered to be the one to be dropped. Kind of like McCain voting to allow the repeal of the ACA to take place but then voting against it (sort of like that anyway). At the very least it seems CMU didn't vote to retain EMU but also didn't vote to expel since they abstained. At least that's the way I interpreted the article. Thanks for digging it up masttg.

Just fyi.... it's going on our bulletin board that CMU wanted EMU out of the MAC. Should be a good game at CMU and we look forward to our visit there this season.

Something that happened almost 35 years ago?

(09-18-2017 03:43 AM)emu steve Wrote:  

(09-17-2017 09:23 PM)Luckeyone Wrote:  

(09-17-2017 05:58 PM)CMUprof Wrote:  Reading the article it looked like CMU voted to allow for a vote to take place that would let a member to drop football then abstained when EMU was considered to be the one to be dropped. Kind of like McCain voting to allow the repeal of the ACA to take place but then voting against it (sort of like that anyway). At the very least it seems CMU didn't vote to retain EMU but also didn't vote to expel since they abstained. At least that's the way I interpreted the article. Thanks for digging it up masttg.

Just fyi.... it's going on our bulletin board that CMU wanted EMU out of the MAC. Should be a good game at CMU and we look forward to our visit there this season.

Something that happened almost 35 years ago?

Ancient history...this was WELL DOCUMENTED back in 1987 when EMU won the MAC and then the California Bowl...No one is in a position of power at either school from those days. LET-IT-GO. Completely irrelevant. EMU, CMU, and WMU are all fine, outstanding institutions.

(09-17-2017 09:23 PM)Luckeyone Wrote:  

(09-17-2017 05:58 PM)CMUprof Wrote:  Reading the article it looked like CMU voted to allow for a vote to take place that would let a member to drop football then abstained when EMU was considered to be the one to be dropped. Kind of like McCain voting to allow the repeal of the ACA to take place but then voting against it (sort of like that anyway). At the very least it seems CMU didn't vote to retain EMU but also didn't vote to expel since they abstained. At least that's the way I interpreted the article. Thanks for digging it up masttg.

Just fyi.... it's going on our bulletin board that CMU wanted EMU out of the MAC. Should be a good game at CMU and we look forward to our visit there this season.

Reminds me of the scene from "Dumb and Dumber" when Lloyd looks at a framed newspaper of the US landing on the moon from 1969 and yells, "We landed on the moon!"

I agree Bob, there are things worth arguing about essentially CURRENT issues, whatever they may be, but things which happened SO FAR in the past should be left alone unless there is good reason.

The point being what relevance TODAY does something which happened over 30 years ago and has no bearing today?

I doubt the MAC commissioner, EMU president, EMU AD, etc. are even familiar with the issue.

(09-18-2017 09:48 AM)emu steve Wrote:  I agree Bob, there are things worth arguing about essentially CURRENT issues, whatever they may be, but things which happened SO FAR in the past should be left alone unless there is good reason.

The point being what relevance TODAY does something which happened over 30 years ago and has no bearing today?

I doubt the MAC commissioner, EMU president, EMU AD, etc. are even familiar with the issue.

Probably not. Scott Wetherbee would have been in the first grade.

(09-18-2017 09:56 AM)Bob Wickersham Wrote:  

(09-18-2017 09:48 AM)emu steve Wrote:  I agree Bob, there are things worth arguing about essentially CURRENT issues, whatever they may be, but things which happened SO FAR in the past should be left alone unless there is good reason.

The point being what relevance TODAY does something which happened over 30 years ago and has no bearing today?

I doubt the MAC commissioner, EMU president, EMU AD, etc. are even familiar with the issue.

Probably not. Scott Wetherbee would have been in the first grade.

Exactly. That is my point.

Completely irrelevant to 'decision makers' today.

Dear Friends,
Some of you are willing to forget the issue that I brought up. I am not. You can go about cheering for Central, that's your prerogative. Most of you were not around Eastern when this came to a head, so I can understand your ambivalence. Please don't kid yourselves though, about how Central people view Eastern athletically.
Just remember this quote: "Those that do not know their history, are bound to repeat it". Eastern came close just a few years ago to be kicked out of the MAC, because of our poor showing in football, and in football attendance. I would be willing to bet that there are half a dozen schools in The MAC right now, if asked about Eastern remaining in the league, they would say kick them out.

(09-18-2017 10:51 AM)Ken Barna Wrote:  Dear Friends,
Some of you are willing to forget the issue that I brought up. I am not. You can go about cheering for Central, that's your prerogative. Most of you were not around Eastern when this came to a head, so I can understand your ambivalence. Please don't kid yourselves though, about how Central people view Eastern athletically.
Just remember this quote: "Those that do not know their history, are bound to repeat it". Eastern came close just a few years ago to be kicked out of the MAC, because of our poor showing in football, and in football attendance. I would be willing to bet that there are half a dozen schools in The MAC right now, if asked about Eastern remaining in the league, they would say kick them out.

I have a solution. It is going to sound radical, but here it goes.

1. Win/keep winning. 2. Students, put down the phone, turn off the video game, turn off the U-M game on TV and actually show up and support your fellow student/athletes who are busting their asses to represent your school.

Do those 2 things and I guarantee you, nobody is going to want to kick EMU out of the MAC. This is an issue entirely of our own making.

Dear Bob and steve,
Of course this was of my making because I felt it important for those who were not aware, should be aware. How many people that are in attendance at Eastern today know who was Elton Rynearson? Probably no one. Using your suggestion of forget, why not change the name of the stadium, as others have done, and name it after a bank, or pizza chain.
What you fail to grasp is this is a part of our history, whether you want to reflect on it, as I said, is up to you. You both feel that it is not relevant. I've already said you can do what you want.

(09-18-2017 10:51 AM)Ken Barna Wrote:  Dear Friends,
Some of you are willing to forget the issue that I brought up. I am not. You can go about cheering for Central, that's your prerogative. Most of you were not around Eastern when this came to a head, so I can understand your ambivalence. Please don't kid yourselves though, about how Central people view Eastern athletically.
Just remember this quote: "Those that do not know their history, are bound to repeat it". Eastern came close just a few years ago to be kicked out of the MAC, because of our poor showing in football, and in football attendance. I would be willing to bet that there are half a dozen schools in The MAC right now, if asked about Eastern remaining in the league, they would say kick them out.

Really? That came up on message boards, but was it really a topic for the MAC powers-that-be? I mean, I'm a football fan but I would think they would consider all the sports, in which case EMU doesn't have a problem.

Dear NIU007,
You are correct. I should have expressed myself better.

(09-18-2017 03:10 PM)Ken Barna Wrote:  Dear Bob and steve,
Of course this was of my making because I felt it important for those who were not aware, should be aware. How many people that are in attendance at Eastern today know who was Elton Rynearson? Probably no one. Using your suggestion of forget, why not change the name of the stadium, as others have done, and name it after a bank, or pizza chain.
What you fail to grasp is this is a part of our history, whether you want to reflect on it, as I said, is up to you. You both feel that it is not relevant. I've already said you can do what you want.

Thanks Ken, I appreciated the history lesson. Don't waste any more of your time arguing with our in-house CMU troll.

(09-18-2017 05:14 PM)EagleTough Wrote:  

(09-18-2017 03:10 PM)Ken Barna Wrote:  Dear Bob and steve,
Of course this was of my making because I felt it important for those who were not aware, should be aware. How many people that are in attendance at Eastern today know who was Elton Rynearson? Probably no one. Using your suggestion of forget, why not change the name of the stadium, as others have done, and name it after a bank, or pizza chain.
What you fail to grasp is this is a part of our history, whether you want to reflect on it, as I said, is up to you. You both feel that it is not relevant. I've already said you can do what you want.

Thanks Ken, I appreciated the history lesson. Don't waste any more of your time arguing with our in-house CMU troll.

Unlike you, my family has degrees from EMU, CMU, MSU, and WMU...both parents have Masters from U-M. So...anyhoo, we weren't "arguing" we were debating. It is what smart people do. Don't you have a Trump rally to get to?

(09-18-2017 05:27 PM)Bob Wickersham Wrote:  

(09-18-2017 05:14 PM)EagleTough Wrote:  

(09-18-2017 03:10 PM)Ken Barna Wrote:  Dear Bob and steve,
Of course this was of my making because I felt it important for those who were not aware, should be aware. How many people that are in attendance at Eastern today know who was Elton Rynearson? Probably no one. Using your suggestion of forget, why not change the name of the stadium, as others have done, and name it after a bank, or pizza chain.
What you fail to grasp is this is a part of our history, whether you want to reflect on it, as I said, is up to you. You both feel that it is not relevant. I've already said you can do what you want.

Thanks Ken, I appreciated the history lesson. Don't waste any more of your time arguing with our in-house CMU troll.

Unlike you, my family has degrees from EMU, CMU, MSU, and WMU...both parents have Masters from U-M. So...anyhoo, we weren't "arguing" we were debating. It is what smart people do. Don't you have a Trump rally to get to?

fly

(09-17-2017 05:58 PM)CMUprof Wrote:  Reading the article it looked like CMU voted to allow for a vote to take place that would let a member to drop football then abstained when EMU was considered to be the one to be dropped. Kind of like McCain voting to allow the repeal of the ACA to take place but then voting against it (sort of like that anyway). At the very least it seems CMU didn't vote to retain EMU but also didn't vote to expel since they abstained. At least that's the way I interpreted the article. Thanks for digging it up masttg.

Ken, my apologies for calling you a liar. What you stated was half true, what I stated was half true. We can meet in the middle. Thanks to Matt for finding that article.

Yeah so it looks like history got mixed up a little bit. It was 8-2 to allow the vote, then CMU abstained from voting when it was EMU. So I was wrong in saying there was not a preliminary vote. But CMU did not vote to kick EMU out of the MAC. It clearly states when EMU was named CMU abstained.

(09-19-2017 08:47 AM)george14 Wrote:  

(09-17-2017 05:58 PM)CMUprof Wrote:  Reading the article it looked like CMU voted to allow for a vote to take place that would let a member to drop football then abstained when EMU was considered to be the one to be dropped. Kind of like McCain voting to allow the repeal of the ACA to take place but then voting against it (sort of like that anyway). At the very least it seems CMU didn't vote to retain EMU but also didn't vote to expel since they abstained. At least that's the way I interpreted the article. Thanks for digging it up masttg.

Ken, my apologies for calling you a liar. What you stated was half true, what I stated was half true. We can meet in the middle. Thanks to Matt for finding that article.

Yeah so it looks like history got mixed up a little bit. It was 8-2 to allow the vote, then CMU abstained from voting when it was EMU. So I was wrong in saying there was not a preliminary vote. But CMU did not vote to kick EMU out of the MAC. It clearly states when EMU was named CMU abstained.

I think we should absolve or largely absolve CMU and put this baby to bed.

I find it hard to blame CMU when the explicitly abstained during the critical vote.

The measure failed and EMU continues in the MAC.

I like the metaphor as to Senator McCain on Obamacare. he voted to allow proposed legislation (several bills) to advance but ultimately voted against the last one to be presented.

Dear steve,
The point was that Central voted with others to have Eastern drop football. Their reasons I'm sure were self serving. One less Michigan member in the MAC, and that would strengthen their position with recruiting, as well as one less Michigan school to play every year.
You may find Central blameless, but I will not change my feelings about them. How long do think Eastern would have stayed in the MAC without football?
You also mentioned on the critical vote they abstained. Why didn't they vote no?

(09-19-2017 12:17 PM)Ken Barna Wrote:  Dear steve,
The point was that Central voted with others to have Eastern drop football. Their reasons I'm sure were self serving. One less Michigan member in the MAC, and that would strengthen their position with recruiting, as well as one less Michigan school to play every year.
You may find Central blameless, but I will not change my feelings about them. How long do think Eastern would have stayed in the MAC without football?
You also mentioned on the critical vote they abstained. Why didn't they vote no?

I read the article and do not agree with your characterizations.

The first vote did not specific EMU as a target (WMU and other non qualifiers could have been a target) and CMU abstained at the 2nd vote.

I would aim my fire at the 7 schools who voted to dismiss EMU (i.e., make us the sacrifice - there were other schools who were not in NCAA compliance).

Folks, is my characterization correct????

Bottom line on these actions is that the conference or NCAA can threaten action but affected institutions can appeal or sue.

abstaining is a weak cop-out.

and i get that this was 30+ years ago, but we're fans. the enjoyment of fandom comes from holding onto grudges and getting a rise out of bulletin board material. i don't want EMU as an institution to do anything about that vote. it's irrelevant as a university issue and an athletic dept issue. but as a fan, to hell with CMU for this and 300 other reasons.