(09-11-2017 06:26 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  I'm Catholic and the Pope can go F himself.

I'm Lutheran. We told the pope to suck it back in the 16th Century.

(09-11-2017 01:28 PM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  Sometimes I'm embarrassed to be Catholic.

Then why stay in the religion...? It sounds like you wear your religion like a bumper sticker.

(09-11-2017 04:35 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  This pope doesn't even believe Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the LIFE, and the only way to the Father.

He has told billions of Muslims, Hindus, atheists, etc that they do not even need Christ to be forgiven by God.

That is 1000000000000000000000000000000000 times more important than DACA

Francis has a lot of issues with his views on temporal matters. However, when it comes to the faith itself, he is accurate. You have a major misunderstanding of what Francis was talking about when he said it would still be possible for someone to make it to heaven even if they did not understand how Christ fit into the picture.

Actually, it's this stance that Francis takes that makes the "problem of evil" solvable for Christianity. Otherwise, God would immoral and very arbitrary with his views.

(09-12-2017 09:31 AM)JDTulane Wrote:  

(09-11-2017 01:28 PM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  Sometimes I'm embarrassed to be Catholic.

Then why stay in the religion...? It sounds like you wear your religion like a bumper sticker.

I would assume because it's entirely plausible to separate the fundamental tenants of a religion from the humans that currently "control" it.

I would never deny my beliefs based on the socio-political views of a pastor. Similarly, I doubt TB4Ever would deny their Catholicism based on the socio-political views of a sitting pope. There's always an element of personal relationship between ourselves and God that control our belief that can easily disregard another human's viewpoints.

(09-12-2017 08:47 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(09-11-2017 06:46 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(09-11-2017 03:43 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(09-11-2017 02:01 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(09-11-2017 11:43 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  They already are.

Without paperwork? You can just walk in and stay permanently? You and I both know thats not the case. Again, no nation does what DACA does---especially without the consent of the government (ie-congress). Im Catholic, and can tell you that Pope Francis is clueless on this. He clearly has no idea that DACA could have been immediately ended with no protection at all for the participants had the threatened court case gone forward. Trump literally saved the program by giving it 6 months of life and stopping action from the courts. If DACA is this popular, then Congress should have no trouble acting in next 6 months.

I'd like to add that rescinding DACA is not pro-nuke either---another issue thats equally as unrelated to DACA as the pro-life stance.

As a proclaimed Catholic, your knowledge of Vatican City is somewhat disturbing. It does not have walls along its entire border and only about 800 people live there and just over half have Vatican citizenship. It's not exactly a burgeoning country teeming with opportunity for immigrants. And your knowledge of Catholicism is even worse is you can't see what the church has done for immigrants over its history.

Correct. It has a wall, around 100 acres, its own security force, and only allows about half its residents to become citizens. It also has a net revenue of 308 million, giving it per capita earnings $356,796---meaning it is the richest state in the world per capita. Go walk into the Vatican and set up shop with no intent of leaving. Let me know how that goes. I'll give you a hint, you cant do there what the Pope is advocating the US do. In fact, you cant cross the border illegally and gain legal citizenship in ANY nation---so his disagreement with US immigration policy would be true of every country on earth--including Mexico---who shoots immgirants attempting to illegally enter Mexico from poorer countries south of their borders.

Im a Catholic, but I disagree with the Church all the time. Classifying homosexuality as a moral disorder and refusing to allow women to become priests is wrong in my opinion. Catholics are not monolithic---especially American Catholics.

But you're missing the point, there's no reason for anyone to even do this. There is no worthwhile opportunity there for an immigrant to even think about doing something like you suggest, so that makes your argument moot...a strawman if you will.

Wow.......that "opportunity" clearly exists for 50% of the inhabitants of the Vatican that dont recieve citizenship. THAT IS the point.

(09-12-2017 09:09 AM)appst89 Wrote:  

(09-12-2017 08:47 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(09-11-2017 06:46 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(09-11-2017 03:43 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(09-11-2017 02:01 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Without paperwork? You can just walk in and stay permanently? You and I both know thats not the case. Again, no nation does what DACA does---especially without the consent of the government (ie-congress). Im Catholic, and can tell you that Pope Francis is clueless on this. He clearly has no idea that DACA could have been immediately ended with no protection at all for the participants had the threatened court case gone forward. Trump literally saved the program by giving it 6 months of life and stopping action from the courts. If DACA is this popular, then Congress should have no trouble acting in next 6 months.

I'd like to add that rescinding DACA is not pro-nuke either---another issue thats equally as unrelated to DACA as the pro-life stance.

As a proclaimed Catholic, your knowledge of Vatican City is somewhat disturbing. It does not have walls along its entire border and only about 800 people live there and just over half have Vatican citizenship. It's not exactly a burgeoning country teeming with opportunity for immigrants. And your knowledge of Catholicism is even worse is you can't see what the church has done for immigrants over its history.

Correct. It has a wall, around 100 acres, its own security force, and only allows about half its residents to become citizens. It also has a net revenue of 308 million, giving it per capita earnings $356,796---meaning it is the richest state in the world per capita. Go walk into the Vatican and set up shop with no intent of leaving. Let me know how that goes. I'll give you a hint, you cant do there what the Pope is advocating the US do. In fact, you cant cross the border illegally and gain legal citizenship in ANY nation---so his disagreement with US immigration policy would be true of every country on earth--including Mexico---who shoots immgirants attempting to illegally enter Mexico from poorer countries south of their borders.

Im a Catholic, but I disagree with the Church all the time. Classifying homosexuality as a moral disorder and refusing to allow women to become priests is wrong in my opinion. Catholics are not monolithic---especially American Catholics.

But you're missing the point, there's no reason for anyone to even do this. There is no worthwhile opportunity there for an immigrant to even think about doing something like you suggest, so that makes your argument moot...a strawman if you will.

So why should an illegal immigrant have that opportunity here?

It's America?

But that's not really the point here. We're talking about kids who did not make a conscious choice to come here illegally. They were brought here and have since become model Americans just like the rest of us, and in many cases, better than the rest of us.

(09-12-2017 10:11 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(09-12-2017 09:09 AM)appst89 Wrote:  

(09-12-2017 08:47 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(09-11-2017 06:46 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(09-11-2017 03:43 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  As a proclaimed Catholic, your knowledge of Vatican City is somewhat disturbing. It does not have walls along its entire border and only about 800 people live there and just over half have Vatican citizenship. It's not exactly a burgeoning country teeming with opportunity for immigrants. And your knowledge of Catholicism is even worse is you can't see what the church has done for immigrants over its history.

Correct. It has a wall, around 100 acres, its own security force, and only allows about half its residents to become citizens. It also has a net revenue of 308 million, giving it per capita earnings $356,796---meaning it is the richest state in the world per capita. Go walk into the Vatican and set up shop with no intent of leaving. Let me know how that goes. I'll give you a hint, you cant do there what the Pope is advocating the US do. In fact, you cant cross the border illegally and gain legal citizenship in ANY nation---so his disagreement with US immigration policy would be true of every country on earth--including Mexico---who shoots immgirants attempting to illegally enter Mexico from poorer countries south of their borders.

Im a Catholic, but I disagree with the Church all the time. Classifying homosexuality as a moral disorder and refusing to allow women to become priests is wrong in my opinion. Catholics are not monolithic---especially American Catholics.

But you're missing the point, there's no reason for anyone to even do this. There is no worthwhile opportunity there for an immigrant to even think about doing something like you suggest, so that makes your argument moot...a strawman if you will.

So why should an illegal immigrant have that opportunity here?

It's America?

But that's not really the point here. We're talking about kids who did not make a conscious choice to come here illegally. They were brought here and have since become model Americans just like the rest of us, and in many cases, better than the rest of us.

A lady in the Memphis metro area was recently arrested for years of embezzling from her employer. She was arrested and is awaiting trial.

Should her children be able to continue to live in their home? They were not involved in her criminal activity. They may not have even been aware of her actions.

(09-12-2017 10:15 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(09-12-2017 10:11 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(09-12-2017 09:09 AM)appst89 Wrote:  

(09-12-2017 08:47 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(09-11-2017 06:46 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Correct. It has a wall, around 100 acres, its own security force, and only allows about half its residents to become citizens. It also has a net revenue of 308 million, giving it per capita earnings $356,796---meaning it is the richest state in the world per capita. Go walk into the Vatican and set up shop with no intent of leaving. Let me know how that goes. I'll give you a hint, you cant do there what the Pope is advocating the US do. In fact, you cant cross the border illegally and gain legal citizenship in ANY nation---so his disagreement with US immigration policy would be true of every country on earth--including Mexico---who shoots immgirants attempting to illegally enter Mexico from poorer countries south of their borders.

Im a Catholic, but I disagree with the Church all the time. Classifying homosexuality as a moral disorder and refusing to allow women to become priests is wrong in my opinion. Catholics are not monolithic---especially American Catholics.

But you're missing the point, there's no reason for anyone to even do this. There is no worthwhile opportunity there for an immigrant to even think about doing something like you suggest, so that makes your argument moot...a strawman if you will.

So why should an illegal immigrant have that opportunity here?

It's America?

But that's not really the point here. We're talking about kids who did not make a conscious choice to come here illegally. They were brought here and have since become model Americans just like the rest of us, and in many cases, better than the rest of us.

A lady in the Memphis metro area was recently arrested for years of embezzling from her employer. She was arrested and is awaiting trial.

Should her children be able to continue to live in their home? They were not involved in her criminal activity. They may not have even been aware of her actions.

Relevance?

(09-12-2017 10:15 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(09-12-2017 10:11 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(09-12-2017 09:09 AM)appst89 Wrote:  

(09-12-2017 08:47 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(09-11-2017 06:46 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Correct. It has a wall, around 100 acres, its own security force, and only allows about half its residents to become citizens. It also has a net revenue of 308 million, giving it per capita earnings $356,796---meaning it is the richest state in the world per capita. Go walk into the Vatican and set up shop with no intent of leaving. Let me know how that goes. I'll give you a hint, you cant do there what the Pope is advocating the US do. In fact, you cant cross the border illegally and gain legal citizenship in ANY nation---so his disagreement with US immigration policy would be true of every country on earth--including Mexico---who shoots immgirants attempting to illegally enter Mexico from poorer countries south of their borders.

Im a Catholic, but I disagree with the Church all the time. Classifying homosexuality as a moral disorder and refusing to allow women to become priests is wrong in my opinion. Catholics are not monolithic---especially American Catholics.

But you're missing the point, there's no reason for anyone to even do this. There is no worthwhile opportunity there for an immigrant to even think about doing something like you suggest, so that makes your argument moot...a strawman if you will.

So why should an illegal immigrant have that opportunity here?

It's America?

But that's not really the point here. We're talking about kids who did not make a conscious choice to come here illegally. They were brought here and have since become model Americans just like the rest of us, and in many cases, better than the rest of us.

A lady in the Memphis metro area was recently arrested for years of embezzling from her employer. She was arrested and is awaiting trial.

Should her children be able to continue to live in their home? They were not involved in her criminal activity. They may not have even been aware of her actions.

Good luck getting an answer. I asked essentially the same question in the DACA thread and as usual when they don't have their media-supplied talking points the leftists ignored the question.

(09-12-2017 09:31 AM)JDTulane Wrote:  

(09-11-2017 01:28 PM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  Sometimes I'm embarrassed to be Catholic.

Then why stay in the religion...? It sounds like you wear your religion like a bumper sticker.

You're never *sometimes* embarrassed to be a member of a certain group but other times you like being in that group?

Or was this just a chance to welsh on your wager and insult a persons faith at the same time?

(09-12-2017 10:15 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  A lady in the Memphis metro area was recently arrested for years of embezzling from her employer. She was arrested and is awaiting trial.

Should her children be able to continue to live in their home? They were not involved in her criminal activity. They may not have even been aware of her actions.

A woman broke into someone elses house and decided to live there with her kids. The kids did nothing wrong. should they be allowed to continue living in the house while the mother is on trial?

(09-12-2017 10:17 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(09-12-2017 10:15 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(09-12-2017 10:11 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(09-12-2017 09:09 AM)appst89 Wrote:  

(09-12-2017 08:47 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  But you're missing the point, there's no reason for anyone to even do this. There is no worthwhile opportunity there for an immigrant to even think about doing something like you suggest, so that makes your argument moot...a strawman if you will.

So why should an illegal immigrant have that opportunity here?

It's America?

But that's not really the point here. We're talking about kids who did not make a conscious choice to come here illegally. They were brought here and have since become model Americans just like the rest of us, and in many cases, better than the rest of us.

A lady in the Memphis metro area was recently arrested for years of embezzling from her employer. She was arrested and is awaiting trial.

Should her children be able to continue to live in their home? They were not involved in her criminal activity. They may not have even been aware of her actions.

Relevance?

It's there. It does require thought, though.

(09-12-2017 10:27 AM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  

(09-12-2017 09:31 AM)JDTulane Wrote:  

(09-11-2017 01:28 PM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  Sometimes I'm embarrassed to be Catholic.

Then why stay in the religion...? It sounds like you wear your religion like a bumper sticker.

You're never *sometimes* embarrassed to be a member of a certain group but other times you like being in that group?

Or was this just a chance to welsh on your wager and insult a persons faith at the same time?

It was an honest question. If I thought my soul was at stake with risk of eternal damnation I'd be concerned if I found myself frequently in disagreement with the religion's #1 figurehead.

(09-12-2017 10:11 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(09-12-2017 09:09 AM)appst89 Wrote:  

(09-12-2017 08:47 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(09-11-2017 06:46 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(09-11-2017 03:43 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  As a proclaimed Catholic, your knowledge of Vatican City is somewhat disturbing. It does not have walls along its entire border and only about 800 people live there and just over half have Vatican citizenship. It's not exactly a burgeoning country teeming with opportunity for immigrants. And your knowledge of Catholicism is even worse is you can't see what the church has done for immigrants over its history.

Correct. It has a wall, around 100 acres, its own security force, and only allows about half its residents to become citizens. It also has a net revenue of 308 million, giving it per capita earnings $356,796---meaning it is the richest state in the world per capita. Go walk into the Vatican and set up shop with no intent of leaving. Let me know how that goes. I'll give you a hint, you cant do there what the Pope is advocating the US do. In fact, you cant cross the border illegally and gain legal citizenship in ANY nation---so his disagreement with US immigration policy would be true of every country on earth--including Mexico---who shoots immgirants attempting to illegally enter Mexico from poorer countries south of their borders.

Im a Catholic, but I disagree with the Church all the time. Classifying homosexuality as a moral disorder and refusing to allow women to become priests is wrong in my opinion. Catholics are not monolithic---especially American Catholics.

But you're missing the point, there's no reason for anyone to even do this. There is no worthwhile opportunity there for an immigrant to even think about doing something like you suggest, so that makes your argument moot...a strawman if you will.

So why should an illegal immigrant have that opportunity here?

It's America?

But that's not really the point here. We're talking about kids who did not make a conscious choice to come here illegally. They were brought here and have since become model Americans just like the rest of us, and in many cases, better than the rest of us.

Doesn't America have immigration laws? Or have you advocated for ignoring them for so long that you've forgotten they exist?

(09-12-2017 10:28 AM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  

(09-12-2017 10:15 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  A lady in the Memphis metro area was recently arrested for years of embezzling from her employer. She was arrested and is awaiting trial.

Should her children be able to continue to live in their home? They were not involved in her criminal activity. They may not have even been aware of her actions.

A woman broke into someone elses house and decided to live there with her kids. The kids did nothing wrong. should they be allowed to continue living in the house while the mother is on trial?

False equivalency. Your hypothetical deals with someone's personal property rights.

(09-12-2017 11:27 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(09-12-2017 10:28 AM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  

(09-12-2017 10:15 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  A lady in the Memphis metro area was recently arrested for years of embezzling from her employer. She was arrested and is awaiting trial.

Should her children be able to continue to live in their home? They were not involved in her criminal activity. They may not have even been aware of her actions.

A woman broke into someone elses house and decided to live there with her kids. The kids did nothing wrong. should they be allowed to continue living in the house while the mother is on trial?

False equivalency. Your hypothetical deals with someone's personal property rights.

But comparing illegally entering the country to embezzlement is not a false equivalency? Really tom?

(09-12-2017 11:09 AM)JDTulane Wrote:  

(09-12-2017 10:27 AM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  

(09-12-2017 09:31 AM)JDTulane Wrote:  

(09-11-2017 01:28 PM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  Sometimes I'm embarrassed to be Catholic.

Then why stay in the religion...? It sounds like you wear your religion like a bumper sticker.

You're never *sometimes* embarrassed to be a member of a certain group but other times you like being in that group?

Or was this just a chance to welsh on your wager and insult a persons faith at the same time?

It was an honest question. If I thought my soul was at stake with risk of eternal damnation I'd be concerned if I found myself frequently in disagreement with the religion's #1 figurehead.

Well, according to the Catechism if you do not hold to everything the current Pope, the Popes before him and the Catechism espouse you are anathema to the church. Everything...and can be ousted from the Church.

Don't believe me, be like the Bereans and check it out yourself.

(09-12-2017 12:16 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  

(09-12-2017 11:09 AM)JDTulane Wrote:  

(09-12-2017 10:27 AM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  

(09-12-2017 09:31 AM)JDTulane Wrote:  

(09-11-2017 01:28 PM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  Sometimes I'm embarrassed to be Catholic.

Then why stay in the religion...? It sounds like you wear your religion like a bumper sticker.

You're never *sometimes* embarrassed to be a member of a certain group but other times you like being in that group?

Or was this just a chance to welsh on your wager and insult a persons faith at the same time?

It was an honest question. If I thought my soul was at stake with risk of eternal damnation I'd be concerned if I found myself frequently in disagreement with the religion's #1 figurehead.

Well, according to the Catechism if you do not hold to everything the current Pope, the Popes before him and the Catechism espouse you are anathema to the church. Everything...and can be ousted from the Church.

Don't believe me, be like the Bereans and check it out yourself.

Wrong. The catechism states that to be true only during times when the pope is speaking "ex cathedra". Technically speaking, that's not very often when you evaluate all the things each pope discussed in public during their tenures.

(09-12-2017 10:11 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(09-12-2017 09:09 AM)appst89 Wrote:  

(09-12-2017 08:47 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(09-11-2017 06:46 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(09-11-2017 03:43 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  As a proclaimed Catholic, your knowledge of Vatican City is somewhat disturbing. It does not have walls along its entire border and only about 800 people live there and just over half have Vatican citizenship. It's not exactly a burgeoning country teeming with opportunity for immigrants. And your knowledge of Catholicism is even worse is you can't see what the church has done for immigrants over its history.

Correct. It has a wall, around 100 acres, its own security force, and only allows about half its residents to become citizens. It also has a net revenue of 308 million, giving it per capita earnings $356,796---meaning it is the richest state in the world per capita. Go walk into the Vatican and set up shop with no intent of leaving. Let me know how that goes. I'll give you a hint, you cant do there what the Pope is advocating the US do. In fact, you cant cross the border illegally and gain legal citizenship in ANY nation---so his disagreement with US immigration policy would be true of every country on earth--including Mexico---who shoots immgirants attempting to illegally enter Mexico from poorer countries south of their borders.

Im a Catholic, but I disagree with the Church all the time. Classifying homosexuality as a moral disorder and refusing to allow women to become priests is wrong in my opinion. Catholics are not monolithic---especially American Catholics.

But you're missing the point, there's no reason for anyone to even do this. There is no worthwhile opportunity there for an immigrant to even think about doing something like you suggest, so that makes your argument moot...a strawman if you will.

So why should an illegal immigrant have that opportunity here?

It's America?

But that's not really the point here. We're talking about kids who did not make a conscious choice to come here illegally. They were brought here and have since become model Americans just like the rest of us, and in many cases, better than the rest of us.

That is sooooooo much bs. They are still here illegally, it is the parent's fault for bringing them here, if they have an issue take it up with the parents when are deported. Exception to the rule: military service, this would impact about 800 people.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

(09-12-2017 11:27 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(09-12-2017 10:28 AM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  

(09-12-2017 10:15 AM)umbluegray Wrote:  A lady in the Memphis metro area was recently arrested for years of embezzling from her employer. She was arrested and is awaiting trial.

Should her children be able to continue to live in their home? They were not involved in her criminal activity. They may not have even been aware of her actions.

A woman broke into someone elses house and decided to live there with her kids. The kids did nothing wrong. should they be allowed to continue living in the house while the mother is on trial?

False equivalency. Your hypothetical deals with someone's personal property rights.

Not really. Private property rights only exist due to law and public policy. Its the same thing that governs citizenship.

Here's some of the hoops a non-citizen has to go through to buy property in Mexico. I simply show you this because you seem to think just walking into a nation and taking up residence there is normal procedure in the world. It is not. The country that whines the loudest about this (Mexico) is quite restrictive in its immigration policies and its treatment of non-citizens. They do not allow people illegally in their country to stay PERIOD.

http://www.theyucatantimes.com/2015/01/a...in-mexico/