It was first noticed in the pop warner leagues. Now it appears high schools are starting to feel the pinch too. While it's one anecdote, the numbers appear to be moving in the wrong direction overall. When we start seeing this phenomenon hit the college level, I suspect what we'll see is the "circle the wagons" defense that will set the P5 apart from the G5 significantly more than we currently see. However, it may ultimately be significantly worse for everyone.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/hi...0efc973267

Quote:WEST WINDSOR TOWNSHIP, N.J. — The nationwide forces that are beginning to uproot football have converged at a place called High School North.

Demographic shifts, concussions, single-sport specialization and cost — among the same issues that have caused youth football numbers to plummet around the country in recent years — have led West Windsor-Plainsboro High School North to drop varsity football this season. The Knights, with a roster of 37 players, will play a junior varsity schedule.

High School South, the other secondary school in the district, might have to do the same next year, along with high schools from four other neighboring jurisdictions, West Windsor-Plainsboro Schools Superintendent David Aderhold said.

The moves reflect a crisis for football all over the country, but one that has accelerated in this New York City bedroom community.

“We’re the leading edge of a much larger iceberg when it comes to what’s coming in youth athletics,” Aderhold said.

Football participation has dropped precipitously for some time. High school football enrollment is down 4.5 percent over the past decade, according to the National Federation of State High School Associations.

4.5 percent is "plummeting". How much is enrollment down? From what im seeing full contact football is being delayed so that most kids don't play it a super early age. Starting play in middle school is plenty early enough---probably even waiting until HS is fine.

(08-23-2017 08:24 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  4.5 percent is "plummeting". How much is enrollment down? From what im seeing full contact football is being delayed so that most kids don't play it a super early age. Starting play in middle school is plenty early enough---probably even waiting until HS is fine.

Read further into that article. Youth football participation is down by 30%. That is plummeting. It is just now beginning to show at the high school level. Take a look at the map Michigan lost 9% of its HS football teams. That will become the new norm in most of the Northern states.

I wouldn't worry too much. Because, all the colleges (at all levels) will do is hold tryouts to play football for their school and there will be less 'scouting'. It may become a more truer student-athlete sport.

I like these articles.

My kid is getting started with non-tackle football as soon as possible. Less competition for my kid to get a scholarship.

Cheerleading and Soccer have higher concussion rates than football, with Girls Soccer having the highest rate of any sport.

I wonder if headgear will be mandatory in Girls Soccer soon.

(08-23-2017 08:24 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  4.5 percent is "plummeting". How much is enrollment down? From what im seeing full contact football is being delayed so that most kids don't play it a super early age. Starting play in middle school is plenty early enough---probably even waiting until HS is fine.

In the 2016-17 academic year, there were 25,901 fewer participants in HS football nationally than in 15-16. It still has the most participants than any HS sport and 61 school started programs last year.

Last year, California participation dropped by 3% alone and 10% in the last decade.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/27261...ll-players

http://www.sfchronicle.com/sports/articl...736944.php

These statistics came out this morning in the Omaha newspaper:

"Since 2003 the state’s high school enrollment has grown about 1 percent but football participation has declined 13.8 percent — from 14,544 in 2003 to 12,541 in 2016."

Growing up in the height of the Cornhuskers glory years (70s-90s) that would have been unthinkable. Partly this could be due to the decline of the Univ. of Nebraska these past years, but I think something else is going on culturally.

I live in a rural area outside of the metro. A local small high school cancelled 1 or 2 games last year because due to injuries they couldn't put a team on the field. I went to one of their home games and saw lots of boys in the stands. But they chose to be "watchers" not "players".

I have a nephew starting high school who is a very good athlete. His father is actually urging him to go out for football, but the boy has no interest. He chooses to focus on baseball. He likes to watch football, but is not interested in being a player.

It is probably not one thing. It is probably multiple things (safety, scandals, technology, etc.). But it seems to me a cultural shift away from playing football is underway among the young generation.

(08-23-2017 09:05 AM)Chappy Wrote:  Cheerleading and Soccer have higher concussion rates than football, with Girls Soccer having the highest rate of any sport.

I wonder if headgear will be mandatory in Girls Soccer soon.

The above is a lie. I can see this become a political creed however

(08-23-2017 08:41 AM)mikeinsec127 Wrote:  

(08-23-2017 08:24 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  4.5 percent is "plummeting". How much is enrollment down? From what im seeing full contact football is being delayed so that most kids don't play it a super early age. Starting play in middle school is plenty early enough---probably even waiting until HS is fine.

Read further into that article. Youth football participation is down by 30%. That is plummeting. It is just now beginning to show at the high school level. Take a look at the map Michigan lost 9% of its HS football teams. That will become the new norm in most of the Northern states.

It also says this---

Demographic changes have drawn families here who are less familiar with American football. Sixty-one percent of High School North’s 1,500-some students are Indian American and Asian American. Some of those families have clashed previously with other families, many of them white, over the role of extracurricular activities in the school district.


“We didn’t grow up with football being part of the culture,” High School North booster club president Sandy Johnson said. Johnson is Chinese American and married to Olin Johnson, who is white and coaches one of West Windsor’s youth football teams. “It’s a struggle when parents don’t know the sport.”

For me personally---I see that issue----we are becoming a more immigrant, more hispanic based democgraphic---so that will lower participation rates a bit. We are also seeing a downturn in growth in that age group as well.

That said, there is no doubt that concussions and the resultant concern for long term brain damage is going to reduce participation----for a while. I didnt push my sons toward youth tackle football simply because its hard on the body. One chose to play in middle school---but was a very good pitcher (so he concentrated on baseball in HS). At the time I was making those decisions, the concussion thing was really still pretty new and unknown---but it didnt take a genius to know it was tough on the body. Having played youth and HS football with no major injuries, I knew I still have minor issues from relatively minor injuries during that period of my life.

Once people learn that soccer, hockey, lacross, and other sports actually have similar risk profiles the fear will fade. Id also add that there is now early research indicating that the cumulative effect of the huge number of micro impacts created by distance running may actually cause damage as well. lol...We will probably end up finding that the cumulative effect of life causes degradation of health and eventual death.

(08-23-2017 10:47 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  

(08-23-2017 09:05 AM)Chappy Wrote:  Cheerleading and Soccer have higher concussion rates than football, with Girls Soccer having the highest rate of any sport.

I wonder if headgear will be mandatory in Girls Soccer soon.

The above is a lie. I can see this become a political creed however

https://consumers.healthday.com/cognitiv...20657.html

Most of the articles citing football as the most dangerous were early studies in 2012 and a bit later. The article cited is from March 2017. A wider variety of sports besides football were researched for high schools. The results showed that Women's Soccer was indeed the sport that suffered the highest % of concussions among participants.

I'm sure just as it has been with every health related caution that there are studies all over the place on this topic, but none of them has women's soccer lower than 3rd in causation.

Editorial note: For some reason this link won't work. Just Google "Which High School Sports suffer the most concussions" and look for the March issue of Consumer Health Day. Sorry for the inconvenience.

But Stug is correct in as much as it will be politicized. Which may become the #1 cause of concussion as many Americans will wind up banging their head against the wall over the issue.

(08-23-2017 11:15 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-23-2017 10:47 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  

(08-23-2017 09:05 AM)Chappy Wrote:  Cheerleading and Soccer have higher concussion rates than football, with Girls Soccer having the highest rate of any sport.

I wonder if headgear will be mandatory in Girls Soccer soon.

The above is a lie. I can see this become a political creed however

https://consumers.healthday.com/cognitiv...20657.html

Most of the articles citing football as the most dangerous were early studies in 2012 and a bit later. The article cited is from March 2017. A wider variety of sports besides football were researched for high schools. The results showed that Women's Soccer was indeed the sport that suffered the highest % of concussions among participants.

I'm sure just as it has been with every health related caution that there are studies all over the place on this topic, but none of them has women's soccer lower than 3rd in causation.

Editorial note: For some reason this link won't work. Just Google "Which High School Sports suffer the most concussions" and look for the March issue of Consumer Health Day. Sorry for the inconvenience.

But Stug is correct in as much as it will be politicized. Which may become the #1 cause of concussion as many Americans will wind up banging their head against the wall over the issue.

The one thing that makes me pause is that the study concluded that baseball and girls volleyball had the largest increase in concussions. Really? Both my kids play club volleyball, school volleyball and sand volleyball. Its an 11+ month a year sport. I see way, way too much volleyball. The only, and I mean only, kid that ever saw pulled off a court and sent to the trainers for a potential concussion was my son. It was a fluke incidence and it turned out that he was fine. I am over 50 and I have seen 1 concussion in baseball and it was the result of a player slipping on wet grass in the outfield. There may be more, but its rare that one hits their head during a baseball game.

I have to honest, I question many of the diagnoses of concussion. These trainers are so, so very careful that every blow to the head or near the head is considered a concussion. Further, I think trainers are even more careful with girls. Now, I get that soccer can be a rough sport. I do think concussions happen. But, I think our definition of a concussion has expanded so much that the number of the concussions in girls soccer is a result of that expanded definition.

As for football, it is a dying sport among kids in many areas. I see concussion fears driving numbers down in suburbs, more affluent areas and ethnic areas less familiar with the sport. Football numbers are way down in cities due to other factors besides concussions. It seems to me that the numbers are still strong in rural areas. The lifestyle probably has something to do with it. Long term, I think football has a numbers problem. Baseball compensated for the lack of inner city youth playing the sport by going outside the country. Given the expense of football, it may be impossible to mimic that strategy. But, they are going to have to figure out something.

(08-23-2017 10:47 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  

(08-23-2017 09:05 AM)Chappy Wrote:  Cheerleading and Soccer have higher concussion rates than football, with Girls Soccer having the highest rate of any sport.

I wonder if headgear will be mandatory in Girls Soccer soon.

The above is a lie. I can see this become a political creed however

You'll have to take that up with Dr. Wellington Hsu. He is a professor of orthopaedics at Northwestern University.

The big difference is that football players wear helmets while soccer players do not. But then I guess you get into the debate of whether wearing a helmet leads to more concussions since you tend to get a little careless with your head.

(08-23-2017 11:56 AM)Chappy Wrote:  

(08-23-2017 10:47 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  

(08-23-2017 09:05 AM)Chappy Wrote:  Cheerleading and Soccer have higher concussion rates than football, with Girls Soccer having the highest rate of any sport.

I wonder if headgear will be mandatory in Girls Soccer soon.

The above is a lie. I can see this become a political creed however

You'll have to take that up with Dr. Wellington Hsu. He is a professor of orthopaedics at Northwestern University.

The big difference is that football players wear helmets while soccer players do not. But then I guess you get into the debate of whether wearing a helmet leads to more concussions since you tend to get a little careless with your head.

Well the collisions in soccer are part of the issue, but the header as a shot might one day vanish due to this.

I'm really not concerned about football at any level: considering the fact that I went to a preseason game (doesn't count for anything) game between the 3/5 best public school team in my city vs a very good team from Miami, 9 hours away and a standing-room only crowd of 9,000 people filled a 6,500 seat stadium including about 1500 fans from Miami who drove that whole way, plus their band. I should also mention that both teams were intercity public schools. And as a side note, high school football is generally not a huge thing here where I live.

Where you'll see the first decline is in the upper and middle class neighborhoods. Those parents will push their kids to Soccer, Baseball, Hockey (up north) and Lacrosse.

I see Football eventually become filled with athletes from the working class.

(08-23-2017 11:55 AM)MU88 Wrote:  

(08-23-2017 11:15 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-23-2017 10:47 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  

(08-23-2017 09:05 AM)Chappy Wrote:  Cheerleading and Soccer have higher concussion rates than football, with Girls Soccer having the highest rate of any sport.

I wonder if headgear will be mandatory in Girls Soccer soon.

The above is a lie. I can see this become a political creed however

https://consumers.healthday.com/cognitiv...20657.html

Most of the articles citing football as the most dangerous were early studies in 2012 and a bit later. The article cited is from March 2017. A wider variety of sports besides football were researched for high schools. The results showed that Women's Soccer was indeed the sport that suffered the highest % of concussions among participants.

I'm sure just as it has been with every health related caution that there are studies all over the place on this topic, but none of them has women's soccer lower than 3rd in causation.

Editorial note: For some reason this link won't work. Just Google "Which High School Sports suffer the most concussions" and look for the March issue of Consumer Health Day. Sorry for the inconvenience.

But Stug is correct in as much as it will be politicized. Which may become the #1 cause of concussion as many Americans will wind up banging their head against the wall over the issue.

The one thing that makes me pause is that the study concluded that baseball and girls volleyball had the largest increase in concussions. Really? Both my kids play club volleyball, school volleyball and sand volleyball. Its an 11+ month a year sport. I see way, way too much volleyball. The only, and I mean only, kid that ever saw pulled off a court and sent to the trainers for a potential concussion was my son. It was a fluke incidence and it turned out that he was fine. I am over 50 and I have seen 1 concussion in baseball and it was the result of a player slipping on wet grass in the outfield. There may be more, but its rare that one hits their head during a baseball game.

I have to honest, I question many of the diagnoses of concussion. These trainers are so, so very careful that every blow to the head or near the head is considered a concussion. Further, I think trainers are even more careful with girls. Now, I get that soccer can be a rough sport. I do think concussions happen. But, I think our definition of a concussion has expanded so much that the number of the concussions in girls soccer is a result of that expanded definition.

As for football, it is a dying sport among kids in many areas. I see concussion fears driving numbers down in suburbs, more affluent areas and ethnic areas less familiar with the sport. Football numbers are way down in cities due to other factors besides concussions. It seems to me that the numbers are still strong in rural areas. The lifestyle probably has something to do with it. Long term, I think football has a numbers problem. Baseball compensated for the lack of inner city youth playing the sport by going outside the country. Given the expense of football, it may be impossible to mimic that strategy. But, they are going to have to figure out something.

It isn't just concussions. I have three brothers. We all played HS FB. We all have lingering affects (knees, hips, lower back) from the game. If I had to do it over again I would have focused on baseball and basketball. Both sports I played in college, both sports which I had to quit due to lingering hip and back injuries sustained playing football.

My son is 12. He plays soccer and is a competitive skier. He likes to watch FB, has no interest in playing. There are more options these days. Along with single sport specialization I expect FB numbers will continue to fall. Will it disappear? No.

(08-23-2017 11:55 AM)MU88 Wrote:  

(08-23-2017 11:15 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(08-23-2017 10:47 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  

(08-23-2017 09:05 AM)Chappy Wrote:  Cheerleading and Soccer have higher concussion rates than football, with Girls Soccer having the highest rate of any sport.

I wonder if headgear will be mandatory in Girls Soccer soon.

The above is a lie. I can see this become a political creed however

https://consumers.healthday.com/cognitiv...20657.html

Most of the articles citing football as the most dangerous were early studies in 2012 and a bit later. The article cited is from March 2017. A wider variety of sports besides football were researched for high schools. The results showed that Women's Soccer was indeed the sport that suffered the highest % of concussions among participants.

I'm sure just as it has been with every health related caution that there are studies all over the place on this topic, but none of them has women's soccer lower than 3rd in causation.

Editorial note: For some reason this link won't work. Just Google "Which High School Sports suffer the most concussions" and look for the March issue of Consumer Health Day. Sorry for the inconvenience.

But Stug is correct in as much as it will be politicized. Which may become the #1 cause of concussion as many Americans will wind up banging their head against the wall over the issue.

The one thing that makes me pause is that the study concluded that baseball and girls volleyball had the largest increase in concussions. Really? Both my kids play club volleyball, school volleyball and sand volleyball. Its an 11+ month a year sport. I see way, way too much volleyball. The only, and I mean only, kid that ever saw pulled off a court and sent to the trainers for a potential concussion was my son. It was a fluke incidence and it turned out that he was fine. I am over 50 and I have seen 1 concussion in baseball and it was the result of a player slipping on wet grass in the outfield. There may be more, but its rare that one hits their head during a baseball game.

I have to honest, I question many of the diagnoses of concussion. These trainers are so, so very careful that every blow to the head or near the head is considered a concussion. Further, I think trainers are even more careful with girls. Now, I get that soccer can be a rough sport. I do think concussions happen. But, I think our definition of a concussion has expanded so much that the number of the concussions in girls soccer is a result of that expanded definition.

As for football, it is a dying sport among kids in many areas. I see concussion fears driving numbers down in suburbs, more affluent areas and ethnic areas less familiar with the sport. Football numbers are way down in cities due to other factors besides concussions. It seems to me that the numbers are still strong in rural areas. The lifestyle probably has something to do with it. Long term, I think football has a numbers problem. Baseball compensated for the lack of inner city youth playing the sport by going outside the country. Given the expense of football, it may be impossible to mimic that strategy. But, they are going to have to figure out something.

I'm totally with you on baseball. It has consistently had fewer concussions than other sports. Outfield collisions and hard falls being the infrequent cause of them. Batters helmets and the rules against collisions at the plate have curtailed the other more likely causes.

There is no concussion proof sport. But of the major sports baseball is one of the safest. But I'm biased. I played the three major sports and had some hockey time when I was a kid. Of the 4 I loved baseball, enjoyed defense in football, and only tolerated basketball.

Baseball doesnt have the turnout that you have in football yet AAC and CUSA are strong baseball conferences.

I don't think a decline in youth FB participation will hurt the college level very much when so many full rides are available.

Players in FBS are gunning for rhe NFL which is incentive.

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(08-23-2017 05:51 AM)miko33 Wrote:  It was first noticed in the pop warner leagues. Now it appears high schools are starting to feel the pinch too. While it's one anecdote, the numbers appear to be moving in the wrong direction overall. When we start seeing this phenomenon hit the college level, I suspect what we'll see is the "circle the wagons" defense that will set the P5 apart from the G5 significantly more than we currently see. However, it may ultimately be significantly worse for everyone.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/hi...0efc973267

Quote:WEST WINDSOR TOWNSHIP, N.J. — The nationwide forces that are beginning to uproot football have converged at a place called High School North.

Demographic shifts, concussions, single-sport specialization and cost — among the same issues that have caused youth football numbers to plummet around the country in recent years — have led West Windsor-Plainsboro High School North to drop varsity football this season. The Knights, with a roster of 37 players, will play a junior varsity schedule.

High School South, the other secondary school in the district, might have to do the same next year, along with high schools from four other neighboring jurisdictions, West Windsor-Plainsboro Schools Superintendent David Aderhold said.

The moves reflect a crisis for football all over the country, but one that has accelerated in this New York City bedroom community.

“We’re the leading edge of a much larger iceberg when it comes to what’s coming in youth athletics,” Aderhold said.

Football participation has dropped precipitously for some time. High school football enrollment is down 4.5 percent over the past decade, according to the National Federation of State High School Associations.

Its a lot easier for an athlete to earn a ride in football by a factor of 10.

With 4 years of college at a state school 100k and the average family making 1997 level income a football scholarship will still be valued for generations to come.

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