(08-18-2017 04:24 PM)SoMs Eagle Wrote:  

(08-18-2017 04:00 PM)LaurelEagleSon Wrote:  

(08-18-2017 03:48 PM)RockTheRock Wrote:  

(08-18-2017 03:41 PM)LaurelEagleSon Wrote:  

(08-18-2017 03:40 PM)RockTheRock Wrote:  So if people are offended by, say an abortion clinic, it's OK for them to have it bulldozed, using your logic.

That sounds like your logic. Care to explain how it works?

Why tear down the statues? Because they are highly offensive to some? So are abortion clinics.

Why tear down the statues? Because they represent killing and suffering of innocents to some? So do abortion clinics.

Why tear down the statues? Because they represent oppression to some? So do abortion clinics. Thousands upon thousands of lives not merely imprisoned, but taken.

You honestly can't tell the difference between a medical facility that is protected by the constitution and provides services to women, and statues of men who fought to tear apart that constitution and the country (and lost) so they could own people? That the battle over women's rights to their bodies has been fought over, time and time again, in court and won, no matter how many times somebody has tried to circumvent it?

That men and women elected by the people of these towns, and the people of these towns themselves, have voted and made the decision to tear down these statues based on... wait for it... the will of the people? These are factors, among many others, you are ignoring to make your false equivalency?

Let's not forget, as well, that there have been plenty of men who were "offended" by abortion clinics who attempted to "bulldoze" one down with a bomb or a bullet to a doctor's chest.

So you are in favor of mob rule, anarchy and getting your way any way you can because after all, you are the moral authority? OK.

Democracy is mob rule and anarchy, now? Good to know. Can't ever keep up with these new alternate-definitions people are coming up with these days.

Everybody has a solution...but actually they are part of the problem.

...they belong in a museum.....I never heard anyone bitchin after desert storm about those statues of oppression being torn down....or the Nazi statues and stone monuments being torn down and blown up after WW2.....or the many symbols of communism that were taken down after the fall of Russia........I could go on and on.

its the same crap...they never should have been erected in the first place. It was a stupid thing to do....I mean, it really is stupid to erect monuments after a war to commemorate and celebrate the rebel side of a civil war whose main agenda was to keep the enslavement of people in place.

(08-18-2017 04:31 PM)nastybunch Wrote:  Everybody has a solution...but actually they are part of the problem.

...did you donate to the RTF fund yet?

(08-18-2017 04:27 PM)LaurelEagleSon Wrote:  

(08-18-2017 04:24 PM)SoMs Eagle Wrote:  

(08-18-2017 04:00 PM)LaurelEagleSon Wrote:  

(08-18-2017 03:48 PM)RockTheRock Wrote:  

(08-18-2017 03:41 PM)LaurelEagleSon Wrote:  That sounds like your logic. Care to explain how it works?

Why tear down the statues? Because they are highly offensive to some? So are abortion clinics.

Why tear down the statues? Because they represent killing and suffering of innocents to some? So do abortion clinics.

Why tear down the statues? Because they represent oppression to some? So do abortion clinics. Thousands upon thousands of lives not merely imprisoned, but taken.

You honestly can't tell the difference between a medical facility that is protected by the constitution and provides services to women, and statues of men who fought to tear apart that constitution and the country (and lost) so they could own people? That the battle over women's rights to their bodies has been fought over, time and time again, in court and won, no matter how many times somebody has tried to circumvent it?

That men and women elected by the people of these towns, and the people of these towns themselves, have voted and made the decision to tear down these statues based on... wait for it... the will of the people? These are factors, among many others, you are ignoring to make your false equivalency?

Let's not forget, as well, that there have been plenty of men who were "offended" by abortion clinics who attempted to "bulldoze" one down with a bomb or a bullet to a doctor's chest.

So you are in favor of mob rule, anarchy and getting your way any way you can because after all, you are the moral authority? OK.

Democracy is mob rule and anarchy, now? Good to know. Can't ever keep up with these new alternate-definitions people are coming up with these days.

You need a civics lesson. Like most of your generation.

(08-18-2017 04:35 PM)SoMs Eagle Wrote:  

(08-18-2017 04:27 PM)LaurelEagleSon Wrote:  

(08-18-2017 04:24 PM)SoMs Eagle Wrote:  

(08-18-2017 04:00 PM)LaurelEagleSon Wrote:  

(08-18-2017 03:48 PM)RockTheRock Wrote:  Why tear down the statues? Because they are highly offensive to some? So are abortion clinics.

Why tear down the statues? Because they represent killing and suffering of innocents to some? So do abortion clinics.

Why tear down the statues? Because they represent oppression to some? So do abortion clinics. Thousands upon thousands of lives not merely imprisoned, but taken.

You honestly can't tell the difference between a medical facility that is protected by the constitution and provides services to women, and statues of men who fought to tear apart that constitution and the country (and lost) so they could own people? That the battle over women's rights to their bodies has been fought over, time and time again, in court and won, no matter how many times somebody has tried to circumvent it?

That men and women elected by the people of these towns, and the people of these towns themselves, have voted and made the decision to tear down these statues based on... wait for it... the will of the people? These are factors, among many others, you are ignoring to make your false equivalency?

Let's not forget, as well, that there have been plenty of men who were "offended" by abortion clinics who attempted to "bulldoze" one down with a bomb or a bullet to a doctor's chest.

So you are in favor of mob rule, anarchy and getting your way any way you can because after all, you are the moral authority? OK.

Democracy is mob rule and anarchy, now? Good to know. Can't ever keep up with these new alternate-definitions people are coming up with these days.

You need a civics lesson. Like most of your generation.

You need a lesson on how to explain your logic instead of writing nonsensical statements and insults, like most everyone who's ever had a debate before in history.

(08-18-2017 04:00 PM)LaurelEagleSon Wrote:  

(08-18-2017 03:48 PM)RockTheRock Wrote:  

(08-18-2017 03:41 PM)LaurelEagleSon Wrote:  

(08-18-2017 03:40 PM)RockTheRock Wrote:  

(08-18-2017 03:27 PM)LaurelEagleSon Wrote:  Some might say the same about people defending participation trophies erected during the Jim Crow era to frighten people of color as they were fighting for equal rights.

Time to tear em down, quit living in the past, and move on.

So if people are offended by, say an abortion clinic, it's OK for them to have it bulldozed, using your logic.

That sounds like your logic. Care to explain how it works?

Why tear down the statues? Because they are highly offensive to some? So are abortion clinics.

Why tear down the statues? Because they represent killing and suffering of innocents to some? So do abortion clinics.

Why tear down the statues? Because they represent oppression to some? So do abortion clinics. Thousands upon thousands of lives not merely imprisoned, but taken.

You honestly can't tell the difference between a medical facility that is protected by the constitution and provides services to women, and statues of men who fought to tear apart that constitution and the country (and lost) so they could own people? That the battle over women's rights to their bodies has been fought over, time and time again, in court and won, no matter how many times somebody has tried to circumvent it?

That men and women elected by the people of these towns, and the people of these towns themselves, have voted and made the decision to tear down these statues based on... wait for it... the will of the people? These are factors, among many others, you are ignoring to make your false equivalency?

Let's not forget, as well, that there have been plenty of men who were "offended" by abortion clinics who attempted to "bulldoze" one down with a bomb or a bullet to a doctor's chest.

When mob rule prevails, the rule of law is no longer effective. You wave the constitution selectively. In mob rule, the constitution and laws no longer matter. Yes, it's illegal to take down an abortion clinic. It's also illegal to pull down those statues. The real point is, once certain groups start ignoring some laws because something offends them, the rule of law goes out the window. It's a slippery slope, and it works both ways.

Are we equating the people who voted to have the statues torn down, and the people who are breaking the law and ripping them down on their own? Because those are two completely different things.

Or are you saying that voting for the statues to be torn down is now considered mob rule? Cause if you think that is mob rule, I've got some sad, sad news for you about democracy in general.

...you know I like ya Rock, but your comparison of taking down memorabilia of a war to tearing down an abortion clinic is a far out doozy.

(08-18-2017 04:45 PM)Nuggets Ghost Wrote:  

(08-18-2017 04:41 PM)RockTheRock Wrote:  It's also illegal to pull down those statues.

..it is?

Evidently.

(08-18-2017 04:49 PM)RockTheRock Wrote:  

(08-18-2017 04:45 PM)Nuggets Ghost Wrote:  

(08-18-2017 04:41 PM)RockTheRock Wrote:  It's also illegal to pull down those statues.

..it is?

Evidently.

It helps people follow your logic when you tell them you're switching topics.

(08-18-2017 04:45 PM)LaurelEagleSon Wrote:  Are we equating the people who voted to have the statues torn down, and the people who are breaking the law and ripping them down on their own? Because those are two completely different things.

Or are you saying that voting for the statues to be torn down is now considered mob rule? Cause if you think that is mob rule, I've got some sad, sad news for you about democracy in general.

I'm talking about those who tear them down and those do violence only because they are offended. Think about what happens if anyone offended gets a mob together and goes off with pitchforks and torches.

I'm not trying to argue or be personal- just debating points and I think we're talking past each other. I think all the groups in Virginia last week are complete knuckleheads, but what if other groups adopt their tactics because they were offended? Seriously, what if a few hundred thousand anti-abortion protesters in DC go rouge and start tearing down building, and are met by another few hundred thousand pro-abortion protesters? That's mob rule, and that's dangerous.

Now if a group of people or a government vote democratically to take down monuments, that's their business.

(08-18-2017 04:58 PM)RockTheRock Wrote:  

(08-18-2017 04:45 PM)LaurelEagleSon Wrote:  Are we equating the people who voted to have the statues torn down, and the people who are breaking the law and ripping them down on their own? Because those are two completely different things.

Or are you saying that voting for the statues to be torn down is now considered mob rule? Cause if you think that is mob rule, I've got some sad, sad news for you about democracy in general.

I'm talking about those who tear them down and those do violence only because they are offended. Think about what happens if anyone offended gets a mob together and goes off with pitchforks and torches.

I'm not trying to argue or be personal- just debating points and I think we're talking past each other. I think all the groups in Virginia last week are complete knuckleheads, but what if other groups adopt their tactics because they were offended? Seriously, what if a few hundred thousand anti-abortion protesters in DC go rouge and start tearing down building, and are met by another few hundred thousand pro-abortion protesters? That's mob rule, and that's dangerous.

Now if a group of people or a government vote democratically to take down monuments, that's their business.

All I'm talking about is the lawful removal of the statues. Violence like we saw in Charlottesville is never good.

Although, I wouldn't go as far as saying all sides were knuckleheads. One side ran over 19 people in a car, killing one, and also beat the living hell out of a black man in a garage while also waving Nazi flags and giving the ole sig heil in the name of confederate statues that were legally voted on to be torn down.

(08-18-2017 04:45 PM)LaurelEagleSon Wrote:  Are we equating the people who voted to have the statues torn down, and the people who are breaking the law and ripping them down on their own? Because those are two completely different things.

Or are you saying that voting for the statues to be torn down is now considered mob rule? Cause if you think that is mob rule, I've got some sad, sad news for you about democracy in general.

OK. Do you think the final say of law in this country under our constitution is democracy? You do need a civics lesson.
And YES, democracy, practiced as 50% plus one of a vote is mob rule.

(08-18-2017 05:11 PM)SoMs Eagle Wrote:  

(08-18-2017 04:45 PM)LaurelEagleSon Wrote:  Are we equating the people who voted to have the statues torn down, and the people who are breaking the law and ripping them down on their own? Because those are two completely different things.

Or are you saying that voting for the statues to be torn down is now considered mob rule? Cause if you think that is mob rule, I've got some sad, sad news for you about democracy in general.

OK. Do you think the final say of law in this country under our constitution is democracy? You do need a civics lesson.
And YES, democracy, practiced as 50% plus one of a vote is mob rule.

So, which are you mad about? The democratic process where people of towns are voting to tear down these statues, or the republic process where their elected officials are deciding or voting to do the same?

Mob rule = democracy to you. Understood. And in your previous post you spoke disparagingly about mob rule, i.e. democracy. It seems you also don't like the republic part of our government either, because that is also how the statues are legally being torn down.

The courts are not having anything to do with it because tearing down statues that are legally decided to be torn down through votes by the people or their elected officials is not constitutional threat.

With all of this cleared up and top-of-mind, what form of government would you prefer, then, for our country?

...yes, I misunderstood, I was thinking you meant "taking them down" Rock...but then I realized what you meant and deleted the post.....yes, it is illegal for the far out left people to pull them down.

(08-18-2017 05:19 PM)LaurelEagleSon Wrote:  

(08-18-2017 05:11 PM)SoMs Eagle Wrote:  

(08-18-2017 04:45 PM)LaurelEagleSon Wrote:  Are we equating the people who voted to have the statues torn down, and the people who are breaking the law and ripping them down on their own? Because those are two completely different things.

Or are you saying that voting for the statues to be torn down is now considered mob rule? Cause if you think that is mob rule, I've got some sad, sad news for you about democracy in general.

OK. Do you think the final say of law in this country under our constitution is democracy? You do need a civics lesson.
And YES, democracy, practiced as 50% plus one of a vote is mob rule.

So, which are you mad about? The democratic process where people of towns are voting to tear down these statues, or the republic process where their elected officials are deciding or voting to do the same?

Mob rule = democracy to you. Understood. And in your previous post you spoke disparagingly about mob rule, i.e. democracy. It seems you also don't like the republic part of our government either, because that is also how the statues are legally being torn down.

The courts are not having anything to do with it because tearing down statues that are legally decided to be torn down through votes by the people or their elected officials is not constitutional threat.

With all of this cleared up and top-of-mind, what form of government would you prefer, then, for our country?

You mean they are having emergency voting over this? I live by Stone Mountain and haven't heard that. I would like to see all flags and banners removed. All statues and monuments removed and ground for rip wrap or used to make Kias. Money should have animals and no presidents. It should be collected and melted into Kias and paper money shredded for lighting grills. I want to see postpartum abortion clinics. Oui really need tons of those.

Ace...

...I went to stone mountain a couple times when I lived in Atlanta........I always laughed at that name..."Stone Mountain"............well duh shitt.

...Back to the Future was another one......."Hill Valley".........well which is it Dammit?!!!!!!!

(08-18-2017 03:27 PM)LaurelEagleSon Wrote:  Time to tear em down.

And who decides that?