Interesting article that talks with Doug Elgin from the MVC. I still don't think they go to 12 unless someone they really really want drops into their lap (SLU and Belmont). Elgin also discusses academics and geography. The MVC are who they are. A tight knit bus league who are not going to expand to far out of their geographical comfort zone.

http://www.cbssports.com/college-basketb...PS5Q1tQXY0

The 2nd school (besides Murray State) has to be a St. Louis, Dayton, or Belmont. Short of one of those it wont happen. From all indication those three are not interested.

The comment from Jacksfan29 about the MVC not using travel partners for MBB, but does in other team sports -especially women's- also can be applied in other leagues such as the Horizon. They however have even numbers in non-Basketball team sports (8 except Baseball is 6) right now with 9 in MBB and WBB. But the MBB and WBB schedules are parallel. So for this league odd will work for sports better than even. But again just like the comment about the MVC where quality over quantity, the Horizon lacks two good schools to add, or even one "must" add. An emergency expansion by the Horizon with a lesser school is predicated on the MVC taking another member, but that is extremely remote.

We are done with expansion for the time being. The Horizon and the Missouri Valley will evaluate candidates but that is likely as far as it goes for the next few years.

(05-11-2017 12:50 PM)jacksfan29 Wrote:  Elgin also discusses academics and geography.

I don't envy the guy. A bunch of his members don't want to be there anymore because others play the "poor little old me" bit and pick and choose when this is about basketball, being that it is an athletic conference, and when it expects Elgin to make this about academics and geography.

This is about making sure the conference is 50/50 public/private split. I hope, really hope, I am wrong about that, but, I doubt it. If a quasi-selective flagship public school applies, it will be too far away. If there's a regional public one with a basketball pulse, the academics won't be there. But, darn it, there's room for Belmont, even if it pushes the footprint greater and isn't as selective as other prospective public schools closer by, just not for Murray, who would actually still make the conference a bus league AND push the conference into a basketball-crazy state with a school that knows how to find the NCAA Tournament well enough.

Again, hope I'm wrong.

(05-11-2017 02:44 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(05-11-2017 12:50 PM)jacksfan29 Wrote:  Elgin also discusses academics and geography.

I don't envy the guy. A bunch of his members don't want to be there anymore because others play the "poor little old me" bit and pick and choose when this is about basketball, being that it is an athletic conference, and when it expects Elgin to make this about academics and geography.

This is about making sure the conference is 50/50 public/private split. I hope, really hope, I am wrong about that, but, I doubt it. If a quasi-selective flagship public school applies, it will be too far away. If there's a regional public one with a basketball pulse, the academics won't be there. But, darn it, there's room for Belmont, even if it pushes the footprint greater and isn't as selective as other prospective public schools closer by, just not for Murray, who would actually still make the conference a bus league AND push the conference into a basketball-crazy state with a school that knows how to find the NCAA Tournament well enough.

Again, hope I'm wrong.

I think a lot of people are pumping up Murray State into some type of mid-major power when that's simply not the case. If you ask the average sports fan who has the higher profile basketball program, most would probably name Valpo before they'd name Murray State (if only because Valpo has some high profile NCAA Tournament history). This isn't a matter of the MVC passing up a Kentucky-based version of Wichita State here. Adding Murray State isn't going to suddenly turn the MVC into a perennial multi-bid conference again.

Also, I don't believe that the public/private split within the MVC really seems that relevant. I *do* think that the MVC wants schools that are located in larger markets, which speaks to their interest in UWM and UNO (along with UIC in the past, all of which are public schools) plus Belmont. This seems to be a much larger factor (as indicated by who the MVC has visited over the years) than simply a public/private dichotomy.

Finally, to suggest that university presidents are going to ignore off-the-court factors like academics and market size is to ignore what drives conference realignment altogether. This is like asking a football coach to not talk about football. Academics are where university presidents are the EXPERTS (and highly-paid experts, at that), so there shouldn't be a shock that academics get talked about a lot in realignment decisions (even if it's a post-hoc justification for a decision that makes the most money, anyway). I'm not sure people why anyone is surprised as to why a school like Murray State gets passed over: it is a CLASSIC case of a school being favored by fans much more than the university presidents. It may not be fair in the eyes of some fans, but that's the game that's being played here.

(05-11-2017 03:12 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(05-11-2017 02:44 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(05-11-2017 12:50 PM)jacksfan29 Wrote:  Elgin also discusses academics and geography.

I don't envy the guy. A bunch of his members don't want to be there anymore because others play the "poor little old me" bit and pick and choose when this is about basketball, being that it is an athletic conference, and when it expects Elgin to make this about academics and geography.

This is about making sure the conference is 50/50 public/private split. I hope, really hope, I am wrong about that, but, I doubt it. If a quasi-selective flagship public school applies, it will be too far away. If there's a regional public one with a basketball pulse, the academics won't be there. But, darn it, there's room for Belmont, even if it pushes the footprint greater and isn't as selective as other prospective public schools closer by, just not for Murray, who would actually still make the conference a bus league AND push the conference into a basketball-crazy state with a school that knows how to find the NCAA Tournament well enough.

Again, hope I'm wrong.

I think a lot of people are pumping up Murray State into some type of mid-major power when that's simply not the case. If you ask the average sports fan who has the higher profile basketball program, most would probably name Valpo before they'd name Murray State (if only because Valpo has some high profile NCAA Tournament history). This isn't a matter of the MVC passing up a Kentucky-based version of Wichita State here. Adding Murray State isn't going to suddenly turn the MVC into a perennial multi-bid conference again.

Also, I don't believe that the public/private split within the MVC really seems that relevant. I *do* think that the MVC wants schools that are located in larger markets, which speaks to their interest in UWM and UNO (along with UIC in the past, all of which are public schools) plus Belmont. This seems to be a much larger factor (as indicated by who the MVC has visited over the years) than simply a public/private dichotomy.

Finally, to suggest that university presidents are going to ignore off-the-court factors like academics and market size is to ignore what drives conference realignment altogether. This is like asking a football coach to not talk about football. Academics are where university presidents are the EXPERTS (and highly-paid experts, at that), so there shouldn't be a shock that academics get talked about a lot in realignment decisions (even if it's a post-hoc justification for a decision that makes the most money, anyway). I'm not sure people why anyone is surprised as to why a school like Murray State gets passed over: it is a CLASSIC case of a school being favored by fans much more than the university presidents. It may not be fair in the eyes of some fans, but that's the game that's being played here.

It appears Murray had the support of Missouri State and Southern Illinois because Murray State filled perceived needs they had, but expansion in the Valley is presumably like most other leagues with a school needing to gain 7 affirmative votes (3/4ths) and either Murray State didn't tick the boxes with enough schools or their transition lead time was a deal breaker. At least some Missouri State folks believe the lead time was the deal breaker and they will be in if an acceptable 12th is found.

If a simple majority is needed, the Sun Belt would have added New Mexico State. The Aggies could get a majority but not 3/4ths.

A friend who ought to know the score had said after the BE/AAC 3+1 raid of CUSA that CUSA was going to 9 or 10, taking either North Texas or North Texas and Florida International but the deal never came together supposedly because ECU, Marshall, and UAB wouldn't let either of those combinations pass without ODU and Charlotte being added as well but UNT, FIU, ODU, Charlotte couldn't reach 6 affirmative votes either leading to UTSA and La.Tech being part of the deal.

The supermajority requirement probably made Sun Belt more harmonious because the eastern opposition was fierce and things got hung up with the west not budging on Liberty or Eastern Kentucky and the east not budging on NMSU, then the move to Coastal Carolina happened and it sailed through.

Murray State had 29 consecutive winning seasons.
They've hired Gottfried, Cronin, Kennedy & Prohm.
They travel better than any true mid major in the midwest.
They've reached a top 10 ranking apex.
They've had 2 teams finish in the regular season top 25 this decade.
They've won 2 NCAA games this decade.

Quick review of some NCAA losses:
Lost in OT as 16 seed to 1 seed Michigan St
Lost by 3 to National Champion Kansas - Kansas' tightest game
Lost by 3 to Duke
Lost by 4 to North Carolina
Lost by 2 to National Runner-Up Butler - Butler's tightest game

A lot of Murray teams were good enough for deeper runs if not handicapped by OVC seeding.

Make no mistake - Murray St historically is the best mid major program not in a top 11 conference. If there's 1 non-top 11 program that's historically a midmajor power, it's Murray St.

If MVC doesn't add Murray next spring, they are not interested in being a multibid league.

(05-09-2017 10:58 AM)jacksfan29 Wrote:  

(05-09-2017 10:23 AM)Stay Cool Wrote:  

(05-09-2017 10:20 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  MAC, Sun Belt, and C-USA offices are getting some calls for the forseeable future.

I can believe the conference would do this. Sad this is the result. Completely validates Wichita. I wasn't a fan of them wanting to go to the AAC, felt selfish and wanted them to go to the A10, but, if this was the best the Valley could do, run. Just run.

The schools have to be WANTED by those conferences they call... realistically, who will find a home in an FBS league? Nobody in those conferences wants to split their already small piece of the pie even smaller.

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

MAC and CUSA won't take a call from any MVC schools. Why would they. The SBC would only look at MSU if either or both non-FB playing schools decide to leave (not happening).

No MVC school playing FCS FB is going to get an invite to an FBS conference anytime soon.

I don't know about the MAC, but C-USA might be willing to entertain some overtures from Missouri State, especially if the conference lost a member. Unlike a lot of other conferences, C-USA has shown a willingness to keep its options open. Very wise move on its part.

Adding Valparaiso might not bring enough for men's basketball for RPI. Yes, they are good, but not good enough like Wichita State. North Dakota State and South Dakota State would have helped MVC out in that department. I do see Illinois State, Indiana State, Missouri State and Northern Iowa trying to talk to join an FBS conference. If they can't find a conference? Would they pushed like a Liberty deal to prove that they can get games to play FBS? I know all 4 could get P5 schools to schedule them, and G5 schools as well.

MAC East:
Buffalo
Ohio
Miami
Akron
Bowling Green
Kent State
Toledo

MAC West:
Central Michigan
Eastern Michigan
Western Michigan
Ball State
Indiana State
Northern Illinois
Illinois State

Travel partners for olympic sports.

Buffalo/Kent State
Akron/Ohio
Toledo/Eastern Michigan
Miami/Bowling Green
Western Michigan/Central Michigan
Indiana State/Ball State
Northern Illinois/Illinois State

If you add 2 more?
Buffalo/Stony Brook
Akron/Kent State
Ohio U./Bowling Green
Toledo/Miami
Milwaukee (if they add football)/Western Michigan
Central Michigan/Eastern Michigan

Not sure why Northern Michigan did not stay in D1?

http://www.nmuwildcats.com/information/superior_dome

The Superior Dome opened in 1991 and could hold up to 16,000 fans. That is big enough to be FBS.

Now, MVC have to be worry if the football schools do leave. We already have three that have expressed interests in the past to go FBS. Missouri State already did some upgrading of their stadium. If those four leaves? Would Southern Illinois leave for OVC with Eastern Illinois?

That would leave these schools.
Bradley
Drake
Evansville
Loyola-Chicago
Valparaiso

Now, MVC could be in danger like the WAC and Summit. They are unstable right now. They needed to add more than one school.

Big 12 and MVC are actually sister conferences, and the both of them are endanger to become extinct if they do not expand.

Horizon, Big South, ASun, Summit, MVC, WAC and any other conferences with smaller numbers do have schools having eyes for moving out.

(05-11-2017 08:38 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  Murray State had 29 consecutive winning seasons.
They've hired Gottfried, Cronin, Kennedy & Prohm.
They travel better than any true mid major in the midwest.
They've reached a top 10 ranking apex.
They've had 2 teams finish in the regular season top 25 this decade.
They've won 2 NCAA games this decade.

Quick review of some NCAA losses:
Lost in OT as 16 seed to 1 seed Michigan St
Lost by 3 to National Champion Kansas - Kansas' tightest game
Lost by 3 to Duke
Lost by 4 to North Carolina
Lost by 2 to National Runner-Up Butler - Butler's tightest game

A lot of Murray teams were good enough for deeper runs if not handicapped by OVC seeding.

Make no mistake - Murray St historically is the best mid major program not in a top 11 conference. If there's 1 non-top 11 program that's historically a midmajor power, it's Murray St.

If MVC doesn't add Murray next spring, they are not interested in being a multibid league.

Yup. It's sad that people have to be reminded of this. They were decent when I started watching college hoops back in the early/mid 90's.

We'll see. I really hope things aren't as bleak as Wichita folks make it seem. In a couple of months, here's hoping the conference picks these guys up, and bring some good hoops back into the conference instead of potential and markets.

If the Summit wants a divorce from Valley football, maybe the Valley should add Eastern Kentucky:

Northern Iowa/Drake
Missouri State/Southern Illinois
Illinois State/Bradley
Valparaiso/Loyola Chicago
Indiana State/Evansville
Eastern Kentucky/Murray State
Football only: Youngstown State

(05-12-2017 08:12 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  If the Summit wants a divorce from Valley football, maybe the Valley should add Eastern Kentucky:

Northern Iowa/Drake
Missouri State/Southern Illinois
Illinois State/Bradley
Valparaiso/Loyola Chicago
Indiana State/Evansville
Eastern Kentucky/Murray State
Football only: Youngstown State

Mo St wants someone closer, like Omaha, UMKC, or ORU. EKU wants to mimic WKU and FBS and the MVC doesn't deliver that.

(05-12-2017 08:16 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(05-12-2017 08:12 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  If the Summit wants a divorce from Valley football, maybe the Valley should add Eastern Kentucky:

Northern Iowa/Drake
Missouri State/Southern Illinois
Illinois State/Bradley
Valparaiso/Loyola Chicago
Indiana State/Evansville
Eastern Kentucky/Murray State
Football only: Youngstown State

Mo St wants someone closer, like Omaha, UMKC, or ORU. EKU wants to mimic WKU and FBS and the MVC doesn't deliver that.

That's an idea.

Could something like UMKC and ORU work? 2 more schools to 12 and a 6/6 public/private balance.

(05-12-2017 08:31 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(05-12-2017 08:16 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(05-12-2017 08:12 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  If the Summit wants a divorce from Valley football, maybe the Valley should add Eastern Kentucky:

Northern Iowa/Drake
Missouri State/Southern Illinois
Illinois State/Bradley
Valparaiso/Loyola Chicago
Indiana State/Evansville
Eastern Kentucky/Murray State
Football only: Youngstown State

Mo St wants someone closer, like Omaha, UMKC, or ORU. EKU wants to mimic WKU and FBS and the MVC doesn't deliver that.

That's an idea.

Could something like UMKC and ORU work? 2 more schools to 12 and a 6/6 public/private balance.

Or Central Arkansas? UCA is also close to Missouri State.

But, should MVC and Summit swap schools to make an all football conference for one, and non-football for the other? As it is, several of the football schools from the MVC do have wandering eyes. They would gladly take an FBS invite to get away from a sinking ship. Southern Illinois could move over to the OVC with Eastern.

(05-12-2017 08:47 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(05-12-2017 08:31 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(05-12-2017 08:16 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(05-12-2017 08:12 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  If the Summit wants a divorce from Valley football, maybe the Valley should add Eastern Kentucky:

Northern Iowa/Drake
Missouri State/Southern Illinois
Illinois State/Bradley
Valparaiso/Loyola Chicago
Indiana State/Evansville
Eastern Kentucky/Murray State
Football only: Youngstown State

Mo St wants someone closer, like Omaha, UMKC, or ORU. EKU wants to mimic WKU and FBS and the MVC doesn't deliver that.

That's an idea.

Could something like UMKC and ORU work? 2 more schools to 12 and a 6/6 public/private balance.

Or Central Arkansas? UCA is also close to Missouri State.

But, should MVC and Summit swap schools to make an all football conference for one, and non-football for the other? As it is, several of the football schools from the MVC do have wandering eyes. They would gladly take an FBS invite to get away from a sinking ship. Southern Illinois could move over to the OVC with Eastern.

MVC has class. It has prestige.

Summit is more newbie D1. MVC doesn't want to swap with that or take a look at UCA when Little Rock has more D1 tradition.

http://www.nwitimes.com/sports/college/v...0b606.html

Quote:Elgin touched on a variety of issues throughout his 33-minute address to the media, including conference expansion. The Valley was looking for either one or three programs that were ready to make the move immediately and Valparaiso was the best fit according to the league. A committee has been established to continue to look at expansion possibilities, although Elgin didn’t go into details about what schools were being considered. Murray State, Milwaukee and Omaha all received site visits in addition to Valparaiso in the spring.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/suburbs/po...story.html

Quote:Ultimately, Elgin is excited to see where VU falls in the puzzle.

"Missouri State is probably going to be at the top of the league this year," he said. "It will be interesting to see where Valpo fits in that equation in terms of basketball."

If Missouri St wins the MVC this year ... how long will it be until that Sun Belt invite comes?

(07-19-2017 10:39 AM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  http://www.nwitimes.com/sports/college/v...0b606.html

Quote:Elgin touched on a variety of issues throughout his 33-minute address to the media, including conference expansion. The Valley was looking for either one or three programs that were ready to make the move immediately and Valparaiso was the best fit according to the league. A committee has been established to continue to look at expansion possibilities, although Elgin didn’t go into details about what schools were being considered. Murray State, Milwaukee and Omaha all received site visits in addition to Valparaiso in the spring.

I know it's just me, but I still think Valpo made a mistake by moving to the Valley. The MVC seems to be trending down in my opinion and have become a one-bid league just as the Horizon League is. Of course only time will tell, but the HL seems to, at least on paper, be on the upswing with new coaches and better recruits over the past couple years.

I say it's just a bad fit in general. The Horizon made the most sense for them.

(07-19-2017 03:54 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  I say it's just a bad fit in general. The Horizon made the most sense for them.

Agreed. I thought so too. Nothing against the Valley.

At this point, there's not much of a difference between the Valley and Horizon. It's a lateral move.