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What if the Big West would have taken advantage of the MWC leaving the WAC?
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Fighting Muskie Online
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What if the Big West would have taken advantage of the MWC leaving the WAC?
So as we all know, prior to the 1999 season a handful of university of presidents met at the Denver airport and half of the WAC quit and formed their own spinoff conference.

This make an awkward geographic situation even more awkward because of the the schools that were left their was a giant expanse between them--out west there was Hawaii, San Jose St, and Fresno St. Then you had another pod consisting of UTEP, Tulsa, SMU, TCU, and Rice.

What if the Big West would have jumped in and tried to solve the western schools' geography conundrum. Instead of Nevada and then Boise St joining the WAC, Hawaii and the two CA schools join a football Big West that includes Nevada, Boise St, Utah St, New Mexico St, North Texas, and Idaho and a CA centric non-FB league of UCSB, UC Irvine, Pacific, Cal St Fullerton, Long Beach St, and Cal Poly (or just the FB schools move, abandoning the other 6).

Meanwhile in the other block they either try to pry away teams from the new C-USA or schools like Arkansas St, ULL, and LA Tech.

Essentially the 2005-2010 WAC forms 6 yrs earlier (minus LA Tech plus UNT & maybe some CA basketball friends). FBS Sunbelt never happens.

In the Central Time zone the Big East raid on C-USA in 2005 creates a scenario where probably the Texas-centric WAC competes with C-USA for members, C-USA having ECU, UAB, USM, Tulane, Houston, and Memphis.
07-17-2017 07:35 PM
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Nerdlinger Offline
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RE: What if the Big West would have taken advantage of the MWC leaving the WAC?
(07-17-2017 07:35 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  So as we all know, prior to the 1999 season a handful of university of presidents met at the Denver airport and half of the WAC quit and formed their own spinoff conference.

This make an awkward geographic situation even more awkward because of the the schools that were left their was a giant expanse between them--out west there was Hawaii, San Jose St, and Fresno St. Then you had another pod consisting of UTEP, Tulsa, SMU, TCU, and Rice.

What if the Big West would have jumped in and tried to solve the western schools' geography conundrum. Instead of Nevada and then Boise St joining the WAC, Hawaii and the two CA schools join a football Big West that includes Nevada, Boise St, Utah St, New Mexico St, North Texas, and Idaho and a CA centric non-FB league of UCSB, UC Irvine, Pacific, Cal St Fullerton, Long Beach St, and Cal Poly (or just the FB schools move, abandoning the other 6).

Meanwhile in the other block they either try to pry away teams from the new C-USA or schools like Arkansas St, ULL, and LA Tech.

Essentially the 2005-2010 WAC forms 6 yrs earlier (minus LA Tech plus UNT & maybe some CA basketball friends). FBS Sunbelt never happens.

In the Central Time zone the Big East raid on C-USA in 2005 creates a scenario where probably the Texas-centric WAC competes with C-USA for members, C-USA having ECU, UAB, USM, Tulane, Houston, and Memphis.

Very interesting. I can't speak with too much authority on the subject, but wasn't the WAC deemed a tier above the Big West, even after the MWC schools left?
07-17-2017 08:16 PM
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RE: What if the Big West would have taken advantage of the MWC leaving the WAC?
Yep. The hierarchy never changes. Or, it rarely changes, as we're seeing between the Sun Belt and C-USA. C-USA obviously overexpanded.

The only way the Big West matters again is if they restart football, both the conferences and schools. But if the football programs like CSULB had still been around five years ago, they'd be in the WAC. Thus, the hierarchy pretty much never changes.
07-17-2017 08:38 PM
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jdgaucho Offline
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RE: What if the Big West would have taken advantage of the MWC leaving the WAC?
North Texas just seemed out of place. I think they, and Pacific, would have left regardless.

The Big West only had one guaranteed bowl bid when the BCS era started. For everyone to have stay put it would have required more bowl berths. But with multiple California teams it might have worked.

Cal State Northridge stays in the Big Sky, and UC Davis and UC Riverside both remain in D2.
07-17-2017 08:43 PM
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Kittonhead Offline
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RE: What if the Big West would have taken advantage of the MWC leaving the WAC?
I can tell you why it didn't happen. The WAC in the mid 90's was a quasi-major conference and the Big West champion played the MAC champ when the MAC was a quasi-FCS conference.

Perception.
07-17-2017 08:51 PM
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Nittany_Bearcat Offline
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RE: What if the Big West would have taken advantage of the MWC leaving the WAC?
(07-17-2017 08:16 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  Very interesting. I can't speak with too much authority on the subject, but wasn't the WAC deemed a tier above the Big West, even after the MWC schools left?

Exactly right as regards the tiers.

SJSU had left the Big West very recently (after 1995). Fresno State left the Big West within the past decade (after 1991). They were generally at the top of the Big West/PCAA and were ambitiously trying to move up in the college football world. They didn't want to go BACK. It was still better to stick it out in a geographically weird conference of 3 schools very near the Pacific Ocean and 5 schools in Texas/Oklahoma.

As for Hawaii, they never were in the Big West, but they certainly were proud and thought themselves a step above. And for fairly good reason: they did win the WAC in 1992.

Also recall that the Big West was fairly actively shedding college football teams in the 1990s. Long Beach State, Pacific, Fullerton. That made the conference even less an option among schools that had options (Boise State, Idaho and UNT had no real options, it was Big West or nothing).
(This post was last modified: 07-17-2017 09:04 PM by Nittany_Bearcat.)
07-17-2017 08:57 PM
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RE: What if the Big West would have taken advantage of the MWC leaving the WAC?
(07-17-2017 07:35 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  So as we all know, prior to the 1999 season a handful of university of presidents met at the Denver airport and half of the WAC quit and formed their own spinoff conference.

This make an awkward geographic situation even more awkward because of the the schools that were left their was a giant expanse between them--out west there was Hawaii, San Jose St, and Fresno St. Then you had another pod consisting of UTEP, Tulsa, SMU, TCU, and Rice.

What if the Big West would have jumped in and tried to solve the western schools' geography conundrum. Instead of Nevada and then Boise St joining the WAC, Hawaii and the two CA schools join a football Big West that includes Nevada, Boise St, Utah St, New Mexico St, North Texas, and Idaho and a CA centric non-FB league of UCSB, UC Irvine, Pacific, Cal St Fullerton, Long Beach St, and Cal Poly (or just the FB schools move, abandoning the other 6).

Meanwhile in the other block they either try to pry away teams from the new C-USA or schools like Arkansas St, ULL, and LA Tech.

Essentially the 2005-2010 WAC forms 6 yrs earlier (minus LA Tech plus UNT & maybe some CA basketball friends). FBS Sunbelt never happens.

In the Central Time zone the Big East raid on C-USA in 2005 creates a scenario where probably the Texas-centric WAC competes with C-USA for members, C-USA having ECU, UAB, USM, Tulane, Houston, and Memphis.

Back then the WAC had a very respected name. They may be the 20 or 30th best conference now, but back then they were probably 5th. Right at that time, the WAC had a Cotton Bowl bid and a NCAA basketball finalist. Big West was a very minor league at the time in football. Much Less respected than the Sun Belt football conference is today. The left behinds of the WAC airport meeting were still very solid SWC teams like TCU, SMU & Rice, and Hawaii and Fresno were bigger names back then. They weren't going to play with Big West newbies and schools with high school gymnasiums. Not even a consideration.
(This post was last modified: 07-17-2017 09:21 PM by billybobby777.)
07-17-2017 09:18 PM
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RE: What if the Big West would have taken advantage of the MWC leaving the WAC?
(07-17-2017 08:43 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  North Texas just seemed out of place. I think they, and Pacific, would have left regardless.

The Big West only had one guaranteed bowl bid when the BCS era started. For everyone to have stay put it would have required more bowl berths. But with multiple California teams it might have worked.

Cal State Northridge stays in the Big Sky, and UC Davis and UC Riverside both remain in D2.

I agree about Pacific. After they dropped football the WCC with other private schools was a much better fit.

As for UNT they are a bit out of place but I doubt SMU and TCU would have permitted them in their league hence being in an awkward west coast league.

I think perception is why instead of the three schools I mentioned in the OP stay in an league that was a bad geographic fit than revert to their old league (Hawaii only ever had women's sports in the league).

What's ironic is that the other 5 schools ultimately ended up bailing on them and saddling them with a geographic outlier in LA Tech that was brought in for their benefit.
07-17-2017 09:26 PM
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chargeradio Offline
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RE: What if the Big West would have taken advantage of the MWC leaving the WAC?
There would still be another FBS league in the southeast, as schools like FIU and Troy aren't moving up to join the Big West. Even if the remnant WAC schools could pull from C-USA, which in my opinion would have been highly unlikely, it does nothing to prevent the Big East from raiding C-USA for schools like Louisville and Cincinnati.

My guess is that this is what it would have looked like in 2000-01:

Big West
Football (9) - Hawaii, SJSU, Fresno State, Boise State, Idaho, Nevada, Utah State, NMSU, North Texas
Non-football (6) - UC Santa Barbara, UC Irvine, Cal Poly, Long Beach State, Fullerton State, Pacific
Football only: Arkansas State

Conference USA
West - TCU, UTEP, Tulsa, Rice, Houston, SMU
East - USF, Cincinnati, Louisville, Memphis, USM, Tulane
Non-football - Saint Louis, DePaul, Charlotte, Marquette, UAB

Sun Belt
All sports (no change) - South Alabama, Louisiana, Lousiana Tech, Arkansas State, FIU, WKU, Denver, New Orleans, UALR

The WAC is dead as it fell below six members, costing it the autobid in basketball (the "6/5 rule").

Louisiana, Louisiana Tech, North Texas, and Arkansas State continue to play football in the Big West. Middle Tennessee joins the Sun Belt. Eventually FAU and Troy join, FIU moves to I-A, and the Sun Belt is at eight for football for the 2005 season.

Of course C-USA gets raided by the Big East, so it loses Louisville, Cincinnati, USF, DePaul, and Marquette. It also loses TCU to the Mountain West. None of its three additions (UCF, Marshall, East Carolina, UAB football) impact the Sun Belt.

In 2011, Utah and BYU leave the Mountain West, and the Mountain West adds Boise State. TCU heads to the Big East-wait we mean the Big 12 the next year, and then the Mountain West adds five of the seven remaining Big West football schools. New Mexico State joins the Sun Belt for football only, which adds Texas State and UTSA for all sports (Texas-Arlington never left the Southland).

It's possible the Big West might have coaxed a school like Montana or Sacramento State out of FCS (not to mention UC Davis or Cal Poly), but in all likelihood Big West football would hve met the same fate as WAC football.
07-17-2017 09:28 PM
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Stugray2 Offline
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RE: What if the Big West would have taken advantage of the MWC leaving the WAC?
There was nothing to go back to in the Big West. UOP, Cal State Fullerton, and Long Beach State dropped football, and neither New Mexico State nor

UNLV, Fresno State, San Jose State all left to join the WAC in football in the prior years. The airport 8, which consisted of 7 old time schools (BYU, Utah, New Mexico, Air Force, Colorado State, Wyoming, SDSU) and UNLV, broke off to get away from what they saw as the less resourced schools like SJSU and Fresno State, as well as the southwestern schools UTEP, Rice, SMU, TCU, Tulsa, and hard to get to Hawaii. UNLV was the net winner, UTEP and Hawaii the losers. TCU was pulled in a few years later.

The WAC was a football conference, the Big West was saddled with a lot Basketball schools (UOP, Long Beach State, CSUF, UCSB, UCI and FCS Cal Poly). Going back to join Nevada, NMSU, USU, Idaho and North Texas was not appealing. Remember also the Big West had lost it's "Big Monday" contract with ESPN. The big days of Tark's teams and having 3-4 top 25 ranked teams was gone.

Karl Benson kept the 8 left behind (Hawaii, SJSU, Fresno State, UTEP, TCU, SMU, Tulsa, Rice) together. He quickly brought Nevada (then Nevada-Reno) in just a year later (that invite went out immediately), and Boise State and Louisiana Tech the year after when TCU joined the MWC. Benson is and always was quick on his feet. Nobody wanted to go backwards.
07-17-2017 09:32 PM
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RE: What if the Big West would have taken advantage of the MWC leaving the WAC?
(07-17-2017 09:18 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  
(07-17-2017 07:35 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  So as we all know, prior to the 1999 season a handful of university of presidents met at the Denver airport and half of the WAC quit and formed their own spinoff conference.

This make an awkward geographic situation even more awkward because of the the schools that were left their was a giant expanse between them--out west there was Hawaii, San Jose St, and Fresno St. Then you had another pod consisting of UTEP, Tulsa, SMU, TCU, and Rice.

What if the Big West would have jumped in and tried to solve the western schools' geography conundrum. Instead of Nevada and then Boise St joining the WAC, Hawaii and the two CA schools join a football Big West that includes Nevada, Boise St, Utah St, New Mexico St, North Texas, and Idaho and a CA centric non-FB league of UCSB, UC Irvine, Pacific, Cal St Fullerton, Long Beach St, and Cal Poly (or just the FB schools move, abandoning the other 6).

Meanwhile in the other block they either try to pry away teams from the new C-USA or schools like Arkansas St, ULL, and LA Tech.

Essentially the 2005-2010 WAC forms 6 yrs earlier (minus LA Tech plus UNT & maybe some CA basketball friends). FBS Sunbelt never happens.

In the Central Time zone the Big East raid on C-USA in 2005 creates a scenario where probably the Texas-centric WAC competes with C-USA for members, C-USA having ECU, UAB, USM, Tulane, Houston, and Memphis.

Back then the WAC had a very respected name. They may be the 20 or 30th best conference now, but back then they were probably 5th. Right at that time, the WAC had a Cotton Bowl bid and a NCAA basketball finalist. Big West was a very minor league at the time in football. Much Less respected than the Sun Belt football conference is today. The left behinds of the WAC airport meeting were still very solid SWC teams like TCU, SMU & Rice, and Hawaii and Fresno were bigger names back then. They weren't going to play with Big West newbies and schools with high school gymnasiums. Not even a consideration.

If you are ranking conferences based on stability I'd would put the modern WAC at 32 of 32. Basketball RPI is a bit higher than that.

The name WAC did mean a lot back then so I guess that's why San Jose St, Fresno St, and Hawaii stuck with it even though their conference mates were almost all on Central Time.
07-17-2017 09:34 PM
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RE: What if the Big West would have taken advantage of the MWC leaving the WAC?
(07-17-2017 09:28 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  There would still be another FBS league in the southeast, as schools like FIU and Troy aren't moving up to join the Big West. Even if the remnant WAC schools could pull from C-USA, which in my opinion would have been highly unlikely, it does nothing to prevent the Big East from raiding C-USA for schools like Louisville and Cincinnati.

My guess is that this is what it would have looked like in 2000-01:

Big West
Football (9) - Hawaii, SJSU, Fresno State, Boise State, Idaho, Nevada, Utah State, NMSU, North Texas
Non-football (6) - UC Santa Barbara, UC Irvine, Cal Poly, Long Beach State, Fullerton State, Pacific
Football only: Arkansas State

Conference USA
West - TCU, UTEP, Tulsa, Rice, Houston, SMU
East - USF, Cincinnati, Louisville, Memphis, USM, Tulane
Non-football - Saint Louis, DePaul, Charlotte, Marquette, UAB

Sun Belt
All sports (no change) - South Alabama, Louisiana, Lousiana Tech, Arkansas State, FIU, WKU, Denver, New Orleans, UALR

The WAC is dead as it fell below six members, costing it the autobid in basketball (the "6/5 rule").

Louisiana, Louisiana Tech, North Texas, and Arkansas State continue to play football in the Big West. Middle Tennessee joins the Sun Belt. Eventually FAU and Troy join, FIU moves to I-A, and the Sun Belt is at eight for football for the 2005 season.

Of course C-USA gets raided by the Big East, so it loses Louisville, Cincinnati, USF, DePaul, and Marquette. It also loses TCU to the Mountain West. None of its three additions (UCF, Marshall, East Carolina, UAB football) impact the Sun Belt.

In 2011, Utah and BYU leave the Mountain West, and the Mountain West adds Boise State. TCU heads to the Big East-wait we mean the Big 12 the next year, and then the Mountain West adds five of the seven remaining Big West football schools. New Mexico State joins the Sun Belt for football only, which adds Texas State and UTSA for all sports (Texas-Arlington never left the Southland).

It's possible the Big West might have coaxed a school like Montana or Sacramento State out of FCS (not to mention UC Davis or Cal Poly), but in all likelihood Big West football would hve met the same fate as WAC football.

I'm not so sure that the schools that would have held the rights to the WAC name--TCU, SMU, Rice, Tulsa, and UTEP necessarily end up with C-USA, at least right away. Merging the Great Midwest and Metro to get to C-USA was very hard fought and the schools calling the shots Louisville, Memphis, and Cincinnati and their basketball allies would want to go into a Texas-centric league pre-2005. Houston, Tulane, and USM might though.

If Houston, USM, and Tulane don't join the WAC then I think the WAC takes Ark St, LA Tech, and ULL.
07-17-2017 09:53 PM
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RE: What if the Big West would have taken advantage of the MWC leaving the WAC?
Though they had fallen, TCU, Rice and SMU were major conference names that still carried weight. So why would SJSU, Fresno and Hawai'i join the Big West for what would be a minor downgrade other than travel? And remember, Boise had not made a name for itself.
(This post was last modified: 07-17-2017 09:58 PM by C2__.)
07-17-2017 09:57 PM
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RE: What if the Big West would have taken advantage of the MWC leaving the WAC?
(07-17-2017 09:57 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  Though they had fallen, TCU, Rice and SMU were major conference names that still carried weight. So why would SJSU, Fresno and Hawai'i join the Big West for what would be a minor downgrade other than travel? And remember, Boise had not made a name for itself.

Also Boise State would join only a two years after the MWC group left. Nevada joined just one year.

I remember those days vividly. It felt like a stab in the back by San Diego State We worked so hard at SJSU and raised a significant amount of money to join the WAC, to be with SDSU and Fresno State, the schools we have always viewed as our rivals. There was no way we were going back to the Big West.
07-17-2017 10:08 PM
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RE: What if the Big West would have taken advantage of the MWC leaving the WAC?
(07-17-2017 09:32 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  There was nothing to go back to in the Big West. UOP, Cal State Fullerton, and Long Beach State dropped football, and neither New Mexico State nor

UNLV, Fresno State, San Jose State all left to join the WAC in football in the prior years. The airport 8, which consisted of 7 old time schools (BYU, Utah, New Mexico, Air Force, Colorado State, Wyoming, SDSU) and UNLV, broke off to get away from what they saw as the less resourced schools like SJSU and Fresno State, as well as the southwestern schools UTEP, Rice, SMU, TCU, Tulsa, and hard to get to Hawaii. UNLV was the net winner, UTEP and Hawaii the losers. TCU was pulled in a few years later.

The WAC was a football conference, the Big West was saddled with a lot Basketball schools (UOP, Long Beach State, CSUF, UCSB, UCI and FCS Cal Poly). Going back to join Nevada, NMSU, USU, Idaho and North Texas was not appealing. Remember also the Big West had lost it's "Big Monday" contract with ESPN. The big days of Tark's teams and having 3-4 top 25 ranked teams was gone.

Karl Benson kept the 8 left behind (Hawaii, SJSU, Fresno State, UTEP, TCU, SMU, Tulsa, Rice) together. He quickly brought Nevada (then Nevada-Reno) in just a year later (that invite went out immediately), and Boise State and Louisiana Tech the year after when TCU joined the MWC. Benson is and always was quick on his feet. Nobody wanted to go backwards.


And ironically, by 2005 the WAC had become the Big West 2.0
07-17-2017 10:26 PM
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templefootballfan Online
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RE: What if the Big West would have taken advantage of the MWC leaving the WAC?
IF I rember correcttally
western schools wanted Nev[Reno] to balance out conf
Tex schools denied Nev, statement said will be controlling the conf
B-West started putting together 12 fb, 16 BB conf together
next day WAC flipped & invited Nev
07-17-2017 11:34 PM
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Post: #17
What if the Big West would have taken advantage of the MWC leaving the WAC?
(07-17-2017 08:57 PM)Nittany_Bearcat Wrote:  
(07-17-2017 08:16 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  Very interesting. I can't speak with too much authority on the subject, but wasn't the WAC deemed a tier above the Big West, even after the MWC schools left?

Exactly right as regards the tiers.

SJSU had left the Big West very recently (after 1995). Fresno State left the Big West within the past decade (after 1991). They were generally at the top of the Big West/PCAA and were ambitiously trying to move up in the college football world. They didn't want to go BACK. It was still better to stick it out in a geographically weird conference of 3 schools very near the Pacific Ocean and 5 schools in Texas/Oklahoma.

As for Hawaii, they never were in the Big West, but they certainly were proud and thought themselves a step above. And for fairly good reason: they did win the WAC in 1992.

Also recall that the Big West was fairly actively shedding college football teams in the 1990s. Long Beach State, Pacific, Fullerton. That made the conference even less an option among schools that had options (Boise State, Idaho and UNT had no real options, it was Big West or nothing).


Never could figure why all those Cali schools that dropped football never went FCS, they could have been good at that level.


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07-18-2017 12:42 AM
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RE: What if the Big West would have taken advantage of the MWC leaving the WAC?
(07-17-2017 09:34 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  
(07-17-2017 09:18 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  
(07-17-2017 07:35 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  So as we all know, prior to the 1999 season a handful of university of presidents met at the Denver airport and half of the WAC quit and formed their own spinoff conference.

This make an awkward geographic situation even more awkward because of the the schools that were left their was a giant expanse between them--out west there was Hawaii, San Jose St, and Fresno St. Then you had another pod consisting of UTEP, Tulsa, SMU, TCU, and Rice.

What if the Big West would have jumped in and tried to solve the western schools' geography conundrum. Instead of Nevada and then Boise St joining the WAC, Hawaii and the two CA schools join a football Big West that includes Nevada, Boise St, Utah St, New Mexico St, North Texas, and Idaho and a CA centric non-FB league of UCSB, UC Irvine, Pacific, Cal St Fullerton, Long Beach St, and Cal Poly (or just the FB schools move, abandoning the other 6).

Meanwhile in the other block they either try to pry away teams from the new C-USA or schools like Arkansas St, ULL, and LA Tech.

Essentially the 2005-2010 WAC forms 6 yrs earlier (minus LA Tech plus UNT & maybe some CA basketball friends). FBS Sunbelt never happens.

In the Central Time zone the Big East raid on C-USA in 2005 creates a scenario where probably the Texas-centric WAC competes with C-USA for members, C-USA having ECU, UAB, USM, Tulane, Houston, and Memphis.

Back then the WAC had a very respected name. They may be the 20 or 30th best conference now, but back then they were probably 5th. Right at that time, the WAC had a Cotton Bowl bid and a NCAA basketball finalist. Big West was a very minor league at the time in football. Much Less respected than the Sun Belt football conference is today. The left behinds of the WAC airport meeting were still very solid SWC teams like TCU, SMU & Rice, and Hawaii and Fresno were bigger names back then. They weren't going to play with Big West newbies and schools with high school gymnasiums. Not even a consideration.

If you are ranking conferences based on stability I'd would put the modern WAC at 32 of 32. Basketball RPI is a bit higher than that.

The name WAC did mean a lot back then so I guess that's why San Jose St, Fresno St, and Hawaii stuck with it even though their conference mates were almost all on Central Time.

Ok, but you get my point, the WAC name/brand was a highly thought of name in the 90's not the joke it's become today. A conference with the best schools in the Southwestern US, with a couple of west coast schools that couldn't get into the PAC. There were years in the early mid 90's when the WAC and PAC went toe to toe in football and basketball, and WAC basketball was much tougher than the SWC after Arkansas left.
07-18-2017 07:58 AM
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Post: #19
RE: What if the Big West would have taken advantage of the MWC leaving the WAC?
(07-18-2017 12:42 AM)Jjoey52 Wrote:  
(07-17-2017 08:57 PM)Nittany_Bearcat Wrote:  
(07-17-2017 08:16 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  Very interesting. I can't speak with too much authority on the subject, but wasn't the WAC deemed a tier above the Big West, even after the MWC schools left?

Exactly right as regards the tiers.

SJSU had left the Big West very recently (after 1995). Fresno State left the Big West within the past decade (after 1991). They were generally at the top of the Big West/PCAA and were ambitiously trying to move up in the college football world. They didn't want to go BACK. It was still better to stick it out in a geographically weird conference of 3 schools very near the Pacific Ocean and 5 schools in Texas/Oklahoma.

As for Hawaii, they never were in the Big West, but they certainly were proud and thought themselves a step above. And for fairly good reason: they did win the WAC in 1992.

Also recall that the Big West was fairly actively shedding college football teams in the 1990s. Long Beach State, Pacific, Fullerton. That made the conference even less an option among schools that had options (Boise State, Idaho and UNT had no real options, it was Big West or nothing).


Never could figure why all those Cali schools that dropped football never went FCS, they could have been good at that level.


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I can figure out why. The perception was at the time I-AA (FCS) wasn't/isn't "Division I" football which we all know that isn't the case.

This is where moniker I-AA hurt the other D-I sports. The perception is better to not have football than I-AA football after having I-A football. Of course IMO that's a fallacy. I will never support a school that doesn't have football. Period. I will say this, had those three not dropped football and went I-AA, it would be a great core six of potentially Big West FCS football: Sac State, ucdavis, Pacific, Cal Poly, Long Beach State and Cal State Fullerton. Heck, you could have even convinced Cal State Northridge not to drop the sport too. At that point bring in Portland State and Northern Arizona. You talk about a decent FCS western conference along with the Big Sky!
(This post was last modified: 07-18-2017 10:47 AM by SactoHornetAlum.)
07-18-2017 10:43 AM
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arkstfan Away
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Post: #20
RE: What if the Big West would have taken advantage of the MWC leaving the WAC?
The Big West fell apart as a football league because the Cali schools had grown weary of adding far flung schools just for the purpose of keeping football afloat.

At the time the MWC split off from WAC, the WAC still had 8 members. UTEP, Hawaii, Fresno, TCU, Rice, Tulsa, SMU, and San Jose State. They quickly added Nevada from the Big West and thought they were stable.

Big West in comparison had:
All Sports + Football: Pacific, Utah State, New Mexico State, Nevada, North Texas, Boise State, Idaho
Non-Football: UC Santa Barbara, Long Beach State. CS Fullerton, UC Irvine, Cal Poly SLO.

The Big West had 12 full members and 7 football (soon 11/6 with the departure of Nevada)

There simply wasn't a way Big West could raid the WAC unless the Big West booted North Texas and the remaining WAC wanted to leave the Texas/Oklahoma schools.
07-18-2017 11:16 AM
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