I'm talking about where schools actually get money from. UMKC had 17k students paying tuition. CSUB had 9k. You guys play in a high school gym. You rely on California for so much of your school costs and they have higher debt than the state of Missouri. Nobody gets rich off WAC basketball. It just supports the other sports. A conference wants to see how you improve their revenue. A big way CSUB could do that would be win a tournament game. The only way Chicago st survives.

No response to how I completely destroyed your absolute gross lie about attendance? Pathetic.

I was talking school attendance. Never mentioned game attendance. If you had 7k fans showing up that one thing but your building can't even hold that.

The bottom line is that if the WAC dies CSUB is going D2 too unless you miraculously make the sweet 16.

You were not talking about that lmao. CSUB going D2?! What a delusional person you are. You have absolutely no clue what you are talking about. I know you are jealous of a successful program whose trajectory keeps going up but meanwhile UMKC's is going in the toilet. You probably still think UMKC can still get into the Valley of the Horizon. You will be lucky if the Summit welcomes you back with open arms after you bolted. Not going to engage further. Have a nice day.

http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances/

Data says it is from 14-15. Subsidy percentages are right side column.

You have to be a school before you can have division 1 athletics. 53% of CSUB revenue comes from California. The new UMKC budget 40% of revenue comes from Missouri. We have a 300 Million dollar budget you have a 166 million dollar budget to actually operate the school. Chicago St in the Mid 2000s was a similar school to us. Look where they are now. You have to be smart with your finances first before you can sustain division 1 athletics. There are no Kansas or Kentucky or UCLA in the WAC.

Btw the new Athletic budget is down to 12.2 million.

(07-03-2017 03:52 PM)RoosHouse Wrote:  

(07-03-2017 03:12 PM)Clarity Wrote:  UMKC will be back in D2 soon with their budget problems. I think that is their future.

Clarity you have no idea. I would be more worried about California's high debt than Missouri's low debt and AAA bond rating. Our endowment is almost 10x the endowment of CSUB. If UMKC wants to go D2 it will be by choice because they want to focus on academics. If you drive a mile around UMKC its is in one of the biggest building booms the city has seen.

Nobody ever uses their endowment money for athletics. It is for the development of the campus and funding scholarships and research. That is a stupid argument about athletics.

The endowment is looked at in realignment as part of the peer evaluation, whether a school matches those in the league they are applying for.

USAToday for 2105 shows UMKC collected $76,209 in ticket sales, charged students $1,245,347, collected $1,370,440 in donations (largest year ever, a huge surge over prior years ... was there a one time $500K donor?), but needed $10,831,814 in tax payer funds for higher education to be transferred to athletics from the Institution.

CSUB numbers are weak, but better in every category
$172,910 ticket sales
$3,306,622 student fees
$1,591,399 in donations (pretty average)
$6,194,887 in school funds

They also manage on a smaller budget with more sports. CSUB is on a much better financial standing than UMKC. They would not go D-II, but would return to Indy unless they are partnered with UCSD to get a Big West birth (which would be ideal).

The WAC is also evolving favor of CSUB with Cal Baptist in relatively nearby Riverside coming on board, and the possibility of even closer Asuza Pacific coming in a few years after, and the possibility that UC San Diego might also if their Big West plans (with CSUB in tow) fail. Combine with the likelihood of far away Chicago State leaving, you should see a dramatic reduction in CSUB's expenses, while an improvement in their ability to recruit with more SoCal schools.

Missouri learned from Illinois. You are borrowing a massive amount of money to operate CSUB. I would lend money to almost every other school in the WAC besides Chicago st than too CSUB.

You have no idea what you are talking about. Just stop it's embarrassing.

Clarity, I forget about bertbly11's posts on the UMKC board. He is a lone voice on the UMKC board. Kind of like the opposite of sweetsixteen of NMSU on this board. Sweet sixteen looks at NMSU getting kicked out of the Sunbelt as the perfect opportunity for NMSU to join the SEC in football. bertbly11 is always predicting UMKC will leave Division 1. I am glad bertbly11 posts on the UMKC board though.

I think it comes down to this. Sometimes the most obvious transaction is the most likely. UMKC belongs in the Summit. The Summit needs Division 1 teams. Fort Wayne of the Summit seems destined for the Horizon next year and UNO and Denver are being courted by others. The Dakota schools are not ready to move up to FBS football. It is a huge financial undertaking and the resources are not there yet. Plus it would be hard to go from always a threat to win the FCS championship to hoping for a bowl game.

UMKC dreams of HL and MVC. Summit League dreams of anyone in Division 1 that is breathing. Some Summit posters dream of NMSU and GCU, (but many of the Summit League teams are having to reduce their budgets (like UMKC) as well. This will remove this possibility) UMKC and Summit will probably end up together.

UMKC may wind up in the Summit. But two things have to happen
1. a new Chancellor who can start a rapprochement with the Summit League
2. changing the sports mix to include Baseball

Technically UMKC does not help the WAC meet NCAA membership per 20.02.5.2 (b)
A minimum of seven members shall sponsor men’s basketball. A minimum of six members shall sponsor
fie other sports, including football or two additional men’s team sports;

UMKC only sponsors Basketball and Soccer. They lack a 3rd team sport. So they do not count for those 6 schools. So UMKC needs to figure out how to still have 3 other men's sports (they can drop Men's Tennis or Golf and still meet the 6 sport minimum if they add Baseball)

But until they do those two things I can't see any conference wanting them.

Denver needs to get over themselves and move back to the WAC and UMKC needs to go back to the Slummit as does Chicago State. The WAC will be western once again. Gotta try to convince Oral Roberts, New Orleans and Texas A&M-Corpus Christi to move to WAC as well.

I gotta agree with Clarity on this one. Talk of CSUB going back to Div. 2 is absurd. CSUB just made the final 4 in the NIT, won both regular season and WAC tourney titles the last two years. Please stop Roo. You're embarrassing yourself.

CSUB has their flaws, but will always be in the WAC. They are a successful program and perfect geographically for the WAC. UMKC should go back to the Summit, but will always be in the WAC unless an invite to SL/HL/MVC ever comes. The WAC needs members, and if both UMKC/CSUB have conf. membership with an auto bid, neither will drop to D2

Wow some UMKC-Bako smack?! Only in the offseason.

Bako is doing quite well in the WAC, why anyone would claim they should go D2 clearly hasn't been paying attention.

WAC should try to pry ORU away from the Summit...I think they could swing it...then offer Denver, only to retract it shortly thereafter.

(07-04-2017 01:18 AM)SDHornet Wrote:  Wow some UMKC-Bako smack?! Only in the offseason.

Bako is doing quite well in the WAC, why anyone would claim they should go D2 clearly hasn't been paying attention.

WAC should try to pry ORU away from the Summit...I think they could swing it...then offer Denver, only to retract it shortly thereafter.

Oral Roberts benefit in baseball from a move to the WAC, but is that enough to justify their move? Basketball perhaps as I cant recall TSL's conference RPI last year.

IMHO, this next year in the WAC, the quality of MBB will determine a lot, not just of conference members sticking around but potential new members interests, waiting to see if the WAC's quality sticks and is not just a flash in the pan.

My comment on D2 is if the WAC fails. No conference wants CSUB. The big west all has 20k+ plus students and 100 mill+ endowment. What does CSUB add to the revenue of the conference? They would have no conference and be forced to be independent with D2 on the horizon at that point with out Ncaa Tournament slot money. Clarity couldn't dispute that and tell me what conference he thought they would go to.

Paranoia definitely sets in when there are rumors about a conference member leaving!
Please avoid personal attacks on others if they disagree with your opinion. It's a discussion board for a reason. Let's discuss.

Perhaps a new topic is necessary is this continues to tail off into "WAC what-ifs."