I emailed the pres and received a response from the VP for enrollment management.
Here is part of her response:

"JMU reviewed this issue for more than a year and examined a range of studies conducted by companies who administer the standardized test, as well as groups and universities not affiliated with testing companies. From all the studies, including research conducted by College Board and ACT, the committee gleaned that curriculum and grades were the best predictor of success in college. While standardized test companies claim to be able to predict freshmen grades, for JMU graduates, the impact of the SAT/ACT scores on a student’s JMU GPA is inconsequential. JMU has relied on the strength of the high school curriculum (and the availability of courses in the high schools) and grades in the core course designated on our website as better indicators of those students who will be successful at JMU. JMU’s decision to allow applicants to choose whether to submit test scores was heavily influenced by the inconsistency of the predictability of standardize tests. We believe this approach will encourage excellent students who may not excel at standardized tests to consider JMU. We will be reviewing this decision each year to evaluate the effectiveness as it relates to qualified applicants."

So, someone help us understand the consequences of this, whether positive or negative for the university.

I know many disagree, but I agree that standardized test is not a good predictor of success. How do you explain students who are not good at tests, but yet are very successful and vice versa? A test never determined my success in a college course, nor did it determine my success in my field of study. What did? My zeal to learn and achieve success in that particular field of study.

They're willing to review it annually to measure its effectiveness. As far as I'm concerned, it's an inevitable trend in higher Ed.
I had good grades but did not perform well on the SAT as many of my peers. Who knows what else I could've gotten into if it wasn't for the score probably holding me back.
Once all the aau's follow the trend (hint: they'll be the last), the critics will finally have to be silent about it.

The way this is set up seems to level the playing field for a student from a weaker school/system. If they come from a school with fewer AP and honors courses with straight A's the standardized tests can legitimize them as students. They would take the "option'' of including them. A student from a tough Nova school with a rigorous course load who makes straight A's has already proven their ability and work ethic, but a less than stellar showing will not harm them as much.

Am I missing something?

This isn't only JMU doing this. More universities are starting to drop this requirement because it just isn't as strong of a predictor of success as looking at the whole picture is. Those from poorer backgrounds especially tend to not do as well on these tests. I believe GWU and Wake Forest are two of the schools that also don't require standardized tests anymore and I would expect more to jump onboard soon.

What schools have eliminated standardized test scores from the admissions process?

This smells like something JMU would do to mask the declining scores of our incoming students relative to others.

Our acceptance rate has already gone from 28% to 64%, thank you Jon Alger and other leaders.

(06-27-2017 06:23 AM)Dukeman2 Wrote:  What schools have eliminated standardized test scores from the admissions process?

This smells like something JMU would do to mask the declining scores of our incoming students relative to others.

Our acceptance rate has already gone from 28% to 64%, thank you Jon Alger and other leaders.

Google it.

(06-27-2017 06:33 AM)Potomac Wrote:  

(06-27-2017 06:23 AM)Dukeman2 Wrote:  What schools have eliminated standardized test scores from the admissions process?

This smells like something JMU would do to mask the declining scores of our incoming students relative to others.

Our acceptance rate has already gone from 28% to 64%, thank you Jon Alger and other leaders.

Google it.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/answ...bd0f5b5b37

I dont have a problem, necessarily, with making standardized test scores an optional component of a student's portfolio. Especially in certain disciplines like art or music where a student's artistic portfolio is far more important (it should be noted, however, that great musicians are often great at math). However, I am am concerned by the near term (perhaps perceived, but still meaningful) impact this may have on the type of student that enters JMU, relative to schools we all see as our peers.

Its one thing for an Ivy or other top tier school to do this. Their low acceptance rates suggest a type of Darwinism we will not ever have at JMU. Its another thing entirely for a second tier university whose rankings have been on a slow decline since the mid 1990s to make a decision like this.

What concerns me even more than this, perhaps, is the policy the university has with certain community colleges, where automatic entrance is granted to students with pre-set academic requirements. Maybe things have changed in the last 20 years when I took a few summer classes at a local CC, but those courses were easy peasy compared to what I would have had to do at JMU.

So many amazing things are going on at JMU, but I am not sure "enrollment management" is in that category.

(06-27-2017 08:09 AM)PhillyDuke Wrote:  What concerns me even more than this, perhaps, is the policy the university has with certain community colleges, where automatic entrance is granted to students with pre-set academic requirements.

I'm pretty sure every public university in Virginia takes part in the guaranteed acceptance program, including UVA and VT.

(06-27-2017 08:14 AM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  

(06-27-2017 08:09 AM)PhillyDuke Wrote:  What concerns me even more than this, perhaps, is the policy the university has with certain community colleges, where automatic entrance is granted to students with pre-set academic requirements.

I'm pretty sure every public university in Virginia takes part in the guaranteed acceptance program, including UVA and VT.

This is true. Its not JMU policy. It is the Commonwealth's.

(06-27-2017 08:17 AM)JMU Wrote:  

(06-27-2017 08:14 AM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  

(06-27-2017 08:09 AM)PhillyDuke Wrote:  What concerns me even more than this, perhaps, is the policy the university has with certain community colleges, where automatic entrance is granted to students with pre-set academic requirements.

I'm pretty sure every public university in Virginia takes part in the guaranteed acceptance program, including UVA and VT.

This is true. Its not JMU policy. It is the Commonwealth's.

Different schools have different GPA minimum requirements for acceptance. For example, iirc UVA's minimum GPA requirement is slightly higher than JMU.

(06-27-2017 05:18 AM)jmutoml757 Wrote:  The way this is set up seems to level the playing field for a student from a weaker school/system. If they come from a school with fewer AP and honors courses with straight A's the standardized tests can legitimize them as students. They would take the "option'' of including them. A student from a tough Nova school with a rigorous course load who makes straight A's has already proven their ability and work ethic, but a less than stellar showing will not harm them as much.

Am I missing something?

I agree. Basically, students with excellent transcripts (be it AP classes, IB programs, high GPAs) will still be accepted without needing a standardized test score. Those with weak transcripts won't be accepted without a SAT score. I don't see much of a change going forward (maybe effecting ~25 students each year?).

(06-27-2017 08:36 AM)JMUETC Wrote:  

(06-27-2017 08:17 AM)JMU Wrote:  

(06-27-2017 08:14 AM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  

(06-27-2017 08:09 AM)PhillyDuke Wrote:  What concerns me even more than this, perhaps, is the policy the university has with certain community colleges, where automatic entrance is granted to students with pre-set academic requirements.

I'm pretty sure every public university in Virginia takes part in the guaranteed acceptance program, including UVA and VT.

This is true. Its not JMU policy. It is the Commonwealth's.

Different schools have different GPA minimum requirements for acceptance. For example, iirc UVA's minimum GPA requirement is slightly higher than JMU.

Yep. I'm more familiar with PVCC in Charlottesville so I sampled a few from here... http://www.pvcc.edu/transfer/GAA

The quick search showed me guaranteed admissions GPA's from PVCC needing to be 3.6 to get into W&M, 3.4 for Massah Jeffuhsun's Univuhsity, 3.0 for JMU, and 2.5 for ODU. Could be some variability also by degree program entering at 4-yr program (e.g., Engineering vs Arts & Sciences...though, I did not look at it that deeply to determine).

I'm torn between knowing that the SAT isn't a guaranteed measure of scholastic aptitude & the idea that being a "bad test-taker" shouldn't matter in the admissions process.

Like it or not, students at JMU will pass or fail most courses based on their ability to pass tests. So there's that side. I choose to believe there will be an intelligent, nuanced approach to this in the admissions office. Ignoring one standardized test score doesn't mean ignoring all tests. A student's HS transcript is derived from dozens & dozens of tests over 4 years.

People freaking out about JMU doing this are either looking for a reason to get mad or are generally bothered by change in any aspect of their life. Please notice I said "freaking out" (a la Dukeman2) not questioning.

I wonder what the correlation is between people who are scared of JMU changing their admissions process and JMU moving up to FBS.

(06-27-2017 08:09 AM)PhillyDuke Wrote:  What concerns me even more than this, perhaps, is the policy the university has with certain community colleges, where automatic entrance is granted to students with pre-set academic requirements. Maybe things have changed in the last 20 years when I took a few summer classes at a local CC, but those courses were easy peasy compared to what I would have had to do at JMU.

I know for a fact that even UVA has automatic acceptance through PVCC. I know someone who went to PVCC, had a minimum GPA and certain courses, was automatically accepted as a UVA undergrad for a junior year (excuse me... third year).

Some facts from US News & World Report that are driving the value of attending community colleges for 2 years and then getting a Bachelor's with 2 more at a state university....

https://www.usnews.com/education/best-co...iversities

Here's a quick breakdown of how schools in each category performed, looking at data reported by ranked schools that were included in editions of the U.S. News Best Colleges rankings from 1995 to 2015:

-The average tuition and fees at private National Universities jumped 179 percent.

-Out-of-state tuition and fees at public universities rose 226 percent since 1995.

-In-state tuition and fees at public National Universities grew the most, increasing a staggering 296 percent.

Just throwing this out there to explain some of the "why" this route has been so popular with many students and their families. And, to a degree (npi), why it kind of became a necessity for states and many people wanting to obtain a 4-yr degree. Virginia isn't alone in this as others have stated or implied. I don't think UVA's (or any other state institutions) reputation has been affected in any way since these guaranteed admissions agreements with the VCCS began.

(06-27-2017 05:18 AM)jmutoml757 Wrote:  The way this is set up seems to level the playing field for a student from a weaker school/system. If they come from a school with fewer AP and honors courses with straight A's the standardized tests can legitimize them as students. They would take the "option'' of including them. A student from a tough Nova school with a rigorous course load who makes straight A's has already proven their ability and work ethic, but a less than stellar showing will not harm them as much.

Am I missing something?

Yes, you've missed everything.

You're off the mark with your assumption that the admissions office can't (or doesn't) distinguish between the academic rigor of different schools and school systems. The admissions office has a complete profile of the strengths of different individual schools (not just a system or district) dating back to the beginning of time. We know if a high GPA at one school is the equivalent to another school.

(06-27-2017 09:15 AM)JMUNewbill Wrote:  I wonder what the correlation is between people who are scared of JMU changing their admissions process and JMU moving up to FBS.

Zero