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Will the P5 pull out of NCAA in 2024?
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JHS55 Offline
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Post: #21
Will the P5 pull out of NCAA in 2024?
Gosh man, you da man, I could not agree more from what you said here and I've never been the same as a football fan sense we had to kick out bud Adams, I only just kinda started watching pro football, sometimes...
(This post was last modified: 05-13-2017 08:47 AM by JHS55.)
05-13-2017 02:11 AM
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JHS55 Offline
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Post: #22
Will the P5 pull out of NCAA in 2024?
So it looks like the p5ers can't or will not pull out of the NCAA for many reasons
05-14-2017 09:35 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Will the P5 pull out of NCAA in 2024?
But, you could get a major backlash from fans from the other schools that are not in the P5 which would get politicians involved. We have seen in recent years that politicians lobbying for schools to get into a P5 conference like Southern Illinois-Edwardsville, SMU, Houston, Memphis,East Carolina, Rice, Tulane, UCF, USF, Cincinnati, Utah, Baylor and so forth. With many political figures in powerful places would dictate the P5 schools to accept them.
There seems to be a threat of an antitrust lawsuit against the Power 5 conferences from schools that could not get in. I think Politicians are behind this, and maybe Liberty made a threat to have a antitrust lawsuit against the FBS as well. If there are antitrust lawsuits impending? Could we see the AAC and MWC file an antitrust lawsuit against the Power 5 to include them as a power 7 conference? Could we see lawsuits from FCS conferences to move up as a whole for FBS status like MVFC forming a new all-sports FBS level conference? Could we see D2 schools that wants to move up, but can't file an antitrust lawsuit?

The threat of legal lawsuits could keep the P5 in check. With many of the P5 schools being sued right now for rape of women and children? Those schools are paying a bunch of money to victims, and they can not leave the NCAA right now. They could go broke. Many of these schools are paying settlement cases to victims, former players, former coaches and so forth. Many of the P5 schools are going broke in debt like Michigan and California.
05-16-2017 03:05 AM
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DavidSt Offline
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RE: Will the P5 pull out of NCAA in 2024?
http://www.sbnation.com/college-football...wne-alston
Quote:The NCAA and Power 5 conference have agreed to pay members of a class-action lawsuit a $208.7 million settlement to players who played before cost of attendance stipend were implemented or did not receive one since they have been. It boils down to over $6,700 dollars per athlete, provided they played four years between 2009-2017. The lawsuit was initially filed by a former West Virginia running back, and the payout is not limited to just football players.

That is more money they lost as well. P5 is actually losing money in lawsuits big time. That is why talks about schools like Boise State, Hawaii, Colorado State, San Diego State, New Mexico, UNR and UNLV to the PAC 12 is more for travel costs to save money to go towards fcoas to avoid anymore of these lawsuits.
05-16-2017 03:16 AM
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TheBasketBallOpinion Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Will the P5 pull out of NCAA in 2024?
Football might do their own thing

NCAA tourney is too much of a cash cow to ruin
05-16-2017 07:47 AM
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Eldonabe Offline
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RE: Will the P5 pull out of NCAA in 2024?
(05-12-2017 07:38 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  To be honest the Men's NCAA basketball tournament would be more interesting without the P5. More interesting mid majors that fans want to see in the tourney over the boring old P5 schools.

Are you smoking crack? THE best part of the tournament is the non-P5 beating the P5 for a round or three. No P5 makes that tournament the CBI - maybe ....
05-17-2017 07:58 AM
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RE: Will the P5 pull out of NCAA in 2024?
I'm an AState fan no matter what, I went to games when we were College Division I, the short stop in Division II as we transitioned into Division I football after the new structure was adopted, Division I, Division I-A, Division I-AA, then I-A/FBS again.

All that said.

No one has ever put forward a compelling argument as to WHY they would break away.
The dollars gained from the CFP not sharing are negligible and the dollars gained from taking over the NCAA Tournament are nice but don't add up to a huge amount of money, less than playing in a top bowl game.

The issue of low scholarship programs blocking things the P5 want because the low scholies don't think it is fair for the P5 to do something they cannot afford is resolved with autonomy.

There simply is no gain compared to the PR and legal minefield that a break away would create.
05-17-2017 08:38 AM
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BadgerMJ Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Will the P5 pull out of NCAA in 2024?
(05-12-2017 05:57 PM)JHS55 Wrote:  If so what then?
Just wondering if some p5ers will stay behind, mybe Nebraska in a desperate move for better recruiting, seeing as their recruiting has tanked sense moving to the big10

More likely they THREATEN to pull out in an attempt to get concessions from the NCAA.

If they do, the P5 will get the changes they want and go about their business.

Everything is a negotiation.
05-17-2017 09:21 AM
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lance99 Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Will the P5 pull out of NCAA in 2024?
(05-16-2017 07:47 AM)TheBasketBallOpinion Wrote:  Football might do their own thing

NCAA tourney is too much of a cash cow to ruin
^This.

This would be the reason why they don't. They would be forced out for ALL Sports, not to mention the big-time PR nightmare from not only the fans and the Press, but of the Students of the Schools that would break away and would never get past Anti-Trust....

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05-17-2017 09:48 AM
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DavidSt Offline
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RE: Will the P5 pull out of NCAA in 2024?
(05-17-2017 09:48 AM)lance99 Wrote:  
(05-16-2017 07:47 AM)TheBasketBallOpinion Wrote:  Football might do their own thing

NCAA tourney is too much of a cash cow to ruin
^This.

This would be the reason why they don't. They would be forced out for ALL Sports, not to mention the big-time PR nightmare from not only the fans and the Press, but of the Students of the Schools that would break away and would never get past Anti-Trust....

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P5 can't break away from the others either because states that do not have a team in the group can get the politicians on board to make threats for inclusion.

Hawaii
Boise State
Montana and Montana State
North Dakota State
South Dakota State
Wyoming
New Mexico
New York
Delaware
Rhode Island
Maine
Vermont
Alaska
Mass.
Conn.
New Hampshire

Then, you could see states that wants more public schools to be with the P5 like Texas, Illinois and so forth.
Look at all the Texas schools got politicians wanted their teams to join the Big 12 last year?
05-17-2017 09:57 AM
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MU88 Offline
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RE: Will the P5 pull out of NCAA in 2024?
(05-17-2017 08:38 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  the dollars gained from taking over the NCAA Tournament are nice but don't add up to a huge amount of money, less than playing in a top bowl game.

The NCAA received over $1 billion in revenue for the NCAA tournament. The total bowl payout from all the bowls is slightly over $500 million. The NCAA's entire budget is funded by the tournament. Plus, the stipend D2 and D3 schools receive is courtesy of the basketball tournament. Let's say the P5 and the BE split from the rest of the NCAA. If the $1 billion was split evenly, each of the school would receive around $15 million each. Clearly, there is a financial incentive to split.

BTW, if they split, there is no reason that the P5 couldn't still play body bag games against teams in the NCAA. Many of the left behind schools need the body bag games to fund their athletic programs, while the P5 wants the home games for revenue purposes. I wold suspect, those games would continue.

The only things that keep the P5 from splitting is 1) politics; and 2) some sense of history coupled with a feeling of obligation toward the other universities. Reason 2 is seems to be fading. Once the pot is high enough, I can see the P5 challenging the political establishment. Money talks.
05-17-2017 10:15 AM
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msm96wolf Offline
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RE: Will the P5 pull out of NCAA in 2024?
More likely, the P4 would happen if anything.
05-17-2017 10:37 AM
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DavidSt Offline
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RE: Will the P5 pull out of NCAA in 2024?
(05-17-2017 10:15 AM)MU88 Wrote:  
(05-17-2017 08:38 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  the dollars gained from taking over the NCAA Tournament are nice but don't add up to a huge amount of money, less than playing in a top bowl game.

The NCAA received over $1 billion in revenue for the NCAA tournament. The total bowl payout from all the bowls is slightly over $500 million. The NCAA's entire budget is funded by the tournament. Plus, the stipend D2 and D3 schools receive is courtesy of the basketball tournament. Let's say the P5 and the BE split from the rest of the NCAA. If the $1 billion was split evenly, each of the school would receive around $15 million each. Clearly, there is a financial incentive to split.

BTW, if they split, there is no reason that the P5 couldn't still play body bag games against teams in the NCAA. Many of the left behind schools need the body bag games to fund their athletic programs, while the P5 wants the home games for revenue purposes. I wold suspect, those games would continue.

The only things that keep the P5 from splitting is 1) politics; and 2) some sense of history coupled with a feeling of obligation toward the other universities. Reason 2 is seems to be fading. Once the pot is high enough, I can see the P5 challenging the political establishment. Money talks.


P5 could become mega-conferences if they split.

MWC could be split between PAC 12 and Big 12. San Jose State might be the only team left behind.
AAC could be split between Big 12, Big 10, AAC and SEC.
Arkansas State, Northern Illinois, Buffalo, Western Michigan, Toledo, Bowling Green, Western Kentucky, UTEP, Rice, UTSA, Georgia Southern, Appalachian State, Eastern Washington, Northern Arizona, BYU, Gonzaga, St. Mary's, Missouri State, Illinois State, Delaware, Stony Brook, Montana, North Dakota State, South Dakota State, UMass., New Hampshire, Alaska, Vermont, URI, Maine, VCU, Dayton, College of Charleston, Davidson, D1 Hockey schools, Johns Hopkins and maybe some others could be split from the rest as well. You grab the best of football, basketball, hockey, baseball and so forth. I could throw in teams like North Florida, FGCU, Mercer, Georgia State and other good hoops teams that beaten P5 schools.
05-17-2017 10:46 AM
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Post: #34
RE: Will the P5 pull out of NCAA in 2024?
(05-17-2017 10:15 AM)MU88 Wrote:  
(05-17-2017 08:38 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  the dollars gained from taking over the NCAA Tournament are nice but don't add up to a huge amount of money, less than playing in a top bowl game.

The NCAA received over $1 billion in revenue for the NCAA tournament. The total bowl payout from all the bowls is slightly over $500 million. The NCAA's entire budget is funded by the tournament. Plus, the stipend D2 and D3 schools receive is courtesy of the basketball tournament. Let's say the P5 and the BE split from the rest of the NCAA. If the $1 billion was split evenly, each of the school would receive around $15 million each. Clearly, there is a financial incentive to split.

BTW, if they split, there is no reason that the P5 couldn't still play body bag games against teams in the NCAA. Many of the left behind schools need the body bag games to fund their athletic programs, while the P5 wants the home games for revenue purposes. I wold suspect, those games would continue.

The only things that keep the P5 from splitting is 1) politics; and 2) some sense of history coupled with a feeling of obligation toward the other universities. Reason 2 is seems to be fading. Once the pot is high enough, I can see the P5 challenging the political establishment. Money talks.

Most of the NCAA budget goes to pay for services that the P5 schools make heavy use of. They break they are still going to want those services and it is easier to create/hire one national body to handle those things than it is to delegate them to the conferences to perform.

The other five distribution funds other than basketball tend to be skewed toward the power conferences.

If you took 100% of the basketball tournament revenue and quit worrying about having rule making and enforcement bodies or education programs or doing research on medical issues... yeah its some serious money but they are still going to want someone to manage 26 or so national championship events, compile stats, handle eligibility reviews etc so it gets eaten up.
05-17-2017 11:10 AM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Will the P5 pull out of NCAA in 2024?
(05-17-2017 11:10 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(05-17-2017 10:15 AM)MU88 Wrote:  
(05-17-2017 08:38 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  the dollars gained from taking over the NCAA Tournament are nice but don't add up to a huge amount of money, less than playing in a top bowl game.

The NCAA received over $1 billion in revenue for the NCAA tournament. The total bowl payout from all the bowls is slightly over $500 million. The NCAA's entire budget is funded by the tournament. Plus, the stipend D2 and D3 schools receive is courtesy of the basketball tournament. Let's say the P5 and the BE split from the rest of the NCAA. If the $1 billion was split evenly, each of the school would receive around $15 million each. Clearly, there is a financial incentive to split.

BTW, if they split, there is no reason that the P5 couldn't still play body bag games against teams in the NCAA. Many of the left behind schools need the body bag games to fund their athletic programs, while the P5 wants the home games for revenue purposes. I wold suspect, those games would continue.

The only things that keep the P5 from splitting is 1) politics; and 2) some sense of history coupled with a feeling of obligation toward the other universities. Reason 2 is seems to be fading. Once the pot is high enough, I can see the P5 challenging the political establishment. Money talks.

Most of the NCAA budget goes to pay for services that the P5 schools make heavy use of. They break they are still going to want those services and it is easier to create/hire one national body to handle those things than it is to delegate them to the conferences to perform.

The other five distribution funds other than basketball tend to be skewed toward the power conferences.

If you took 100% of the basketball tournament revenue and quit worrying about having rule making and enforcement bodies or education programs or doing research on medical issues... yeah its some serious money but they are still going to want someone to manage 26 or so national championship events, compile stats, handle eligibility reviews etc so it gets eaten up.

They could save quite a bit of money that would be distributed to the schools instead of absorbed by the NCAA.

Yes, they would need infrastructure to replace the NCAA. But it would be managing far fewer universities and athletic programs, it wouldn't have nearly as much bureaucratic bloat to begin with, and it wouldn't be squirreling away big chunks of the annual March Madness revenue in bank accounts just for bureaucratic self-preservation like the NCAA does now.

The big obstacle is just the time and effort needed to create a replacement for the NCAA. The people who would have to do that - university administrators, athletic directors, etc. - already have full-time jobs. This would be a heckuva lot of additional work on top of their full-time jobs. Given the choice between finding a lot of people willing to work 70 hours/week instead of 50, on the one hand, and grudgingly tolerating the current NCAA bloat, on the other hand, the decisionmakers will choose the latter.
05-17-2017 11:29 AM
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Post: #36
RE: Will the P5 pull out of NCAA in 2024?
(05-17-2017 10:15 AM)MU88 Wrote:  
(05-17-2017 08:38 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  the dollars gained from taking over the NCAA Tournament are nice but don't add up to a huge amount of money, less than playing in a top bowl game.

The NCAA received over $1 billion in revenue for the NCAA tournament. The total bowl payout from all the bowls is slightly over $500 million. The NCAA's entire budget is funded by the tournament. Plus, the stipend D2 and D3 schools receive is courtesy of the basketball tournament. Let's say the P5 and the BE split from the rest of the NCAA. If the $1 billion was split evenly, each of the school would receive around $15 million each. Clearly, there is a financial incentive to split.

BTW, if they split, there is no reason that the P5 couldn't still play body bag games against teams in the NCAA. Many of the left behind schools need the body bag games to fund their athletic programs, while the P5 wants the home games for revenue purposes. I wold suspect, those games would continue.

The only things that keep the P5 from splitting is 1) politics; and 2) some sense of history coupled with a feeling of obligation toward the other universities. Reason 2 is seems to be fading. Once the pot is high enough, I can see the P5 challenging the political establishment. Money talks.


A P6 sole tourney is not worth 1 billion.
05-17-2017 01:51 PM
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RE: Will the P5 pull out of NCAA in 2024?
(05-17-2017 11:10 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(05-17-2017 10:15 AM)MU88 Wrote:  
(05-17-2017 08:38 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  the dollars gained from taking over the NCAA Tournament are nice but don't add up to a huge amount of money, less than playing in a top bowl game.

The NCAA received over $1 billion in revenue for the NCAA tournament. The total bowl payout from all the bowls is slightly over $500 million. The NCAA's entire budget is funded by the tournament. Plus, the stipend D2 and D3 schools receive is courtesy of the basketball tournament. Let's say the P5 and the BE split from the rest of the NCAA. If the $1 billion was split evenly, each of the school would receive around $15 million each. Clearly, there is a financial incentive to split.

BTW, if they split, there is no reason that the P5 couldn't still play body bag games against teams in the NCAA. Many of the left behind schools need the body bag games to fund their athletic programs, while the P5 wants the home games for revenue purposes. I wold suspect, those games would continue.

The only things that keep the P5 from splitting is 1) politics; and 2) some sense of history coupled with a feeling of obligation toward the other universities. Reason 2 is seems to be fading. Once the pot is high enough, I can see the P5 challenging the political establishment. Money talks.

Most of the NCAA budget goes to pay for services that the P5 schools make heavy use of. They break they are still going to want those services and it is easier to create/hire one national body to handle those things than it is to delegate them to the conferences to perform.

The other five distribution funds other than basketball tend to be skewed toward the power conferences.

If you took 100% of the basketball tournament revenue and quit worrying about having rule making and enforcement bodies or education programs or doing research on medical issues... yeah its some serious money but they are still going to want someone to manage 26 or so national championship events, compile stats, handle eligibility reviews etc so it gets eaten up.

Another excellent point. While the P5 don't get the money directly, they get most of it indirectly.

Take softball. all 13 SEC teams made the tourney, which is partially funded from basketball money.
05-17-2017 01:53 PM
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Post: #38
RE: Will the P5 pull out of NCAA in 2024?
(05-17-2017 11:29 AM)Wedge Wrote:  
(05-17-2017 11:10 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(05-17-2017 10:15 AM)MU88 Wrote:  
(05-17-2017 08:38 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  the dollars gained from taking over the NCAA Tournament are nice but don't add up to a huge amount of money, less than playing in a top bowl game.

The NCAA received over $1 billion in revenue for the NCAA tournament. The total bowl payout from all the bowls is slightly over $500 million. The NCAA's entire budget is funded by the tournament. Plus, the stipend D2 and D3 schools receive is courtesy of the basketball tournament. Let's say the P5 and the BE split from the rest of the NCAA. If the $1 billion was split evenly, each of the school would receive around $15 million each. Clearly, there is a financial incentive to split.

BTW, if they split, there is no reason that the P5 couldn't still play body bag games against teams in the NCAA. Many of the left behind schools need the body bag games to fund their athletic programs, while the P5 wants the home games for revenue purposes. I wold suspect, those games would continue.

The only things that keep the P5 from splitting is 1) politics; and 2) some sense of history coupled with a feeling of obligation toward the other universities. Reason 2 is seems to be fading. Once the pot is high enough, I can see the P5 challenging the political establishment. Money talks.

Most of the NCAA budget goes to pay for services that the P5 schools make heavy use of. They break they are still going to want those services and it is easier to create/hire one national body to handle those things than it is to delegate them to the conferences to perform.

The other five distribution funds other than basketball tend to be skewed toward the power conferences.

If you took 100% of the basketball tournament revenue and quit worrying about having rule making and enforcement bodies or education programs or doing research on medical issues... yeah its some serious money but they are still going to want someone to manage 26 or so national championship events, compile stats, handle eligibility reviews etc so it gets eaten up.

They could save quite a bit of money that would be distributed to the schools instead of absorbed by the NCAA.

Yes, they would need infrastructure to replace the NCAA. But it would be managing far fewer universities and athletic programs, it wouldn't have nearly as much bureaucratic bloat to begin with, and it wouldn't be squirreling away big chunks of the annual March Madness revenue in bank accounts just for bureaucratic self-preservation like the NCAA does now.

The big obstacle is just the time and effort needed to create a replacement for the NCAA. The people who would have to do that - university administrators, athletic directors, etc. - already have full-time jobs. This would be a heckuva lot of additional work on top of their full-time jobs. Given the choice between finding a lot of people willing to work 70 hours/week instead of 50, on the one hand, and grudgingly tolerating the current NCAA bloat, on the other hand, the decisionmakers will choose the latter.

And the reality is, they are going to hire most of the people they bring in away from the NCAA.

The drones in Indy weren't the problem anyway, it was things like the $2000 stipend vote being over-ridden by primarily FCS and non-football schools that is the hassle.

The cost of paying for the Division II men's tennis championship and Division III cross country championship is nickels and dimes. The dollars gained aren't worth the bad optics.

The NCAA reserve fund has come in handy at times as well. Some of the litigation that the power 5 schools would have had to pay out on got paid from the rainy day and lawyer fund. If I'm AD I much prefer to tell my president yeah what we were doing was struck down but the NCAA is paying for it than have the money in hand and budgeted and then have to pay it out.
05-17-2017 01:57 PM
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Wilkie01 Offline
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RE: Will the P5 pull out of NCAA in 2024?
(05-12-2017 06:10 PM)JHS55 Wrote:  I've seen some p5ers on here that would even " weed out the week" from their own ranks...
So how many teams does that leave them?

04-jawdrop In which week and year will the P5 weed out the "week"? Epic Applause
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05-17-2017 02:36 PM
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RE: Will the P5 pull out of NCAA in 2024?
(05-17-2017 11:29 AM)Wedge Wrote:  
(05-17-2017 11:10 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(05-17-2017 10:15 AM)MU88 Wrote:  
(05-17-2017 08:38 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  the dollars gained from taking over the NCAA Tournament are nice but don't add up to a huge amount of money, less than playing in a top bowl game.

The NCAA received over $1 billion in revenue for the NCAA tournament. The total bowl payout from all the bowls is slightly over $500 million. The NCAA's entire budget is funded by the tournament. Plus, the stipend D2 and D3 schools receive is courtesy of the basketball tournament. Let's say the P5 and the BE split from the rest of the NCAA. If the $1 billion was split evenly, each of the school would receive around $15 million each. Clearly, there is a financial incentive to split.

BTW, if they split, there is no reason that the P5 couldn't still play body bag games against teams in the NCAA. Many of the left behind schools need the body bag games to fund their athletic programs, while the P5 wants the home games for revenue purposes. I wold suspect, those games would continue.

The only things that keep the P5 from splitting is 1) politics; and 2) some sense of history coupled with a feeling of obligation toward the other universities. Reason 2 is seems to be fading. Once the pot is high enough, I can see the P5 challenging the political establishment. Money talks.

Most of the NCAA budget goes to pay for services that the P5 schools make heavy use of. They break they are still going to want those services and it is easier to create/hire one national body to handle those things than it is to delegate them to the conferences to perform.

The other five distribution funds other than basketball tend to be skewed toward the power conferences.

If you took 100% of the basketball tournament revenue and quit worrying about having rule making and enforcement bodies or education programs or doing research on medical issues... yeah its some serious money but they are still going to want someone to manage 26 or so national championship events, compile stats, handle eligibility reviews etc so it gets eaten up.

They could save quite a bit of money that would be distributed to the schools instead of absorbed by the NCAA.

Yes, they would need infrastructure to replace the NCAA. But it would be managing far fewer universities and athletic programs, it wouldn't have nearly as much bureaucratic bloat to begin with, and it wouldn't be squirreling away big chunks of the annual March Madness revenue in bank accounts just for bureaucratic self-preservation like the NCAA does now.

The big obstacle is just the time and effort needed to create a replacement for the NCAA. The people who would have to do that - university administrators, athletic directors, etc. - already have full-time jobs. This would be a heckuva lot of additional work on top of their full-time jobs. Given the choice between finding a lot of people willing to work 70 hours/week instead of 50, on the one hand, and grudgingly tolerating the current NCAA bloat, on the other hand, the decisionmakers will choose the latter.


They could waste more money because if you pull out for all sports? You have sports that do not have enough teams to have make money, but spend more for travel. The one would be hockey. Weeding out the weak P5 schools would also cause more money being spent and you could be in more debt. You need to plan to include schools for all sports.

Big West, MWC, WCC and west coast D2 schools could help by being part of this new group. Several west coast D2 are in a west coast single sport or multiple sports with the PAC 12 and others. I do think PAC 12 would love to bring UC-San Diego along because they could fill spots that they do not have enough members for sports in. PAC 12 do have teams that have water polo, and Big West, MWC and D2 California schools do have water polo. Western Washington does have rowing that is in D1 for that sport. Plus, if they leave other good teams behind? They are leaving money on the table. How much would the other schools gain on the P5 if the P5 are not in the NCAA?
05-17-2017 05:22 PM
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