(05-14-2017 08:44 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-14-2017 08:28 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  The most likely scenario for Notre Dame joining the ACC in football, IMO:
1. The Irish go many years without a playoff berth, while the ACC champ keeps making it
2. The ACC beats the Irish on a regular basis, making it look less like a step down
3. NBC signs up a conference like the AAC for football, making ND less important
4. ACC media rights continue to increase in value.

All of these are plausible, and together put ND in a "why not join" situation. The ACC will not attempt to "force" ND to join for football, however.

JMO

Mark I think they join sooner rather than later and I don't think it will take 15 years. And if you beat them regularly they might look at the Big 10. But, I would expect that NBC might be one of the bidders on the SEC T1 rights in 2022 when we are getting ready for renewal with CBS. But, NBC won't be the only bidder.

Notre Dame really has a decision to make this time. They can take the ACC plunge and help to be a catalyst for the increased value of your media rights, remain secure by helping to secure the last conference in which they can find a comfortable fit, the right mix of sports (outside of hockey), and schools with compatible missions. Or, they can wait in the wings as demographics slowly constrain all of their objectives.

In other words it's bend or break time. I think South Bend bends South.

I predict that ND does nothing, JR. There is too much opposition and inertia at ND about this subject.

I think that the current discussion is all Brando running his mouth again, like last year.

But, you are correct that IF ND football joins a conference, it will be the ACC.

It sure as hell would not be the Big Ten. That is not even remotely in the cards.

As I said in the post above, in a worse case scenario, ND can milk indy status unless/until its football program is ruined, then activate the contract and join the ACC.

I am still talking years from now, even in a worse case scenario----not that I believe such a scenario will occur.

For all the talk about how bad ND has been, it won 12 games in 2012, 9 in 2013, 8 in 2014 and 10 in 2015. Not elite, but not as bad a recent record as others would have one believe.

I do not see the status quo changing for the moment and do not think there is anything serious pushing the Irish into football membership right now. The ACC has no leverage to, the other big conferences have no desire to see the Irish strengthen the ACC, the alumni would revolt if the school took football membership over a similar type offer from the Big 12 (and again the ACC cannot force a move there), and I do not think the Notre Dame administration sees recruiting or other type of advantages from joining a conference (I do not either, Notre Dame's uniqueness I think actually helps).

I think they are set until such a time that we have a major organizational change and I do not see any push for one right now. With time, in tough economic times (coming, but none of the powers that be ever seem to see), we might aee a merger of conferences into a single organization (to give them maximium power in neogications, but this will be a desperation move by the bigger powers) and then there might be no choice, but for now i see them safe as independent.

It's weird that ND just announced their 5-game-per-year ACC deal recently. I don't think they would go through that charade...and then join the ACC next year. If anything, ND fans are going to feel so much a part of the ACC that by 2032, it won't be a big deal for them to go from 5-game to 8-game ACC schedule.

(05-14-2017 11:45 AM)micahandme Wrote:  It's weird that ND just announced their 5-game-per-year ACC deal recently. I don't think they would go through that charade...and then join the ACC next year. If anything, ND fans are going to feel so much a part of the ACC that by 2032, it won't be a big deal for them to go from 5-game to 8-game ACC schedule.

ND was a Big East member from 1995 until 2012.

ND fans did not "feel so much part of" that conference, either.

I think there is a general presumption that , if the CFP were to formally adopt a conference champions only model, that would be the the final straw for Notre Dame, and they would exercise their option to join the ACC for football.

I'm sure I am going against the grain when I say I'm not so sure they would. I don't think that being the CFP champion is one of their university's goals. For many years, the Irish declined to even play in any post season bowl game, despite what I am sure was at least some pressure to do so (especially when they were very highly ranked).

It would not surprise me in the least if ND simply accepted that they would never be invited to the playoffs, and continued on their present course.

(05-14-2017 08:49 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(05-14-2017 08:28 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  The most likely scenario for Notre Dame joining the ACC in football, IMO:
1. The Irish go many years without a playoff berth, while the ACC champ keeps making it
2. The ACC beats the Irish on a regular basis, making it look less like a step down
3. NBC signs up a conference like the AAC for football, making ND less important
4. ACC media rights continue to increase in value.

All of these are plausible, and together put ND in a "why not join" situation. The ACC will not attempt to "force" ND to join for football, however.

JMO

If all of these dire predictions and the suggested decline/collapse of ND football occur, you guys are stuck with a depleted, declined, lessened ND.

Because that contract about ND joining the ACC in football works both ways. ND has to join the ACC and (the 30 year lawyer in me says) that contract says the ACC has to accept ND football, no matter what lousy shape it is in.

It is a bilateral contract. That is first year law school contracts. Do you think ND signed an agreement that only obligates them, but not the ACC, to do something, a one way deal?

Why would the ACC want to root for that outcome? Does it want another BC or Wake?

ACC guys should root for the status quo instead. ND won't join unless it has a gun to its head and has no other choice. If it joins, that means the football program has pretty much collapsed.

Terry, I disagree. All four scenarios that HokieMark mentioned could take place without ND football being ruined or collapsing:

1) ND could realistically go another 5 years without making the playoffs. That plus the first 3 years that ND has already missed the playoffs make 8 years which, in cfb terms, equals many years. Meanwhile, Clemson, FSU are recruiting at a level that could realistically keep both of them taking turns in getting to the playoffs the next 5 years. Thats not even considering what the new coaches at Miami and VT are doing.

2)The ACC has upgraded its coaching ranks big time, and I can see a scenario where ND goes .500 or below, against the ACC the next 5 years. That doesnt however mean that ND's fb has collapsed.

3)With only ND football to broadcast fulltime, if NBC wanted to bring in a conference like the aac to compliment its ND package, thats not a knock on ND. NBC could use ND football to prop up ratings for a league like the AAC.

4) This is the most likely scenario. The ACC will likely see a large increase in its TV deal once the network gets going full time. Again, that has nothing to do with ND's football being ruined or collapsing.

ND is already contractually obligated to play 5 ACC teams per season. If you think thats football independence then I totally disagree. But I can say this, if ND didnt need to be contractually obligated to play 5 ACC teams a year, they wouldnt do it. But they do do it. And their football is not ruined or collapsing. Like someone else says, its not a far cry for ND to play an additional 3 games per season.

(05-14-2017 12:10 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(05-14-2017 11:45 AM)micahandme Wrote:  It's weird that ND just announced their 5-game-per-year ACC deal recently. I don't think they would go through that charade...and then join the ACC next year. If anything, ND fans are going to feel so much a part of the ACC that by 2032, it won't be a big deal for them to go from 5-game to 8-game ACC schedule.

ND was a Big East member from 1995 until 2012.

ND fans did not "feel so much part of" that conference, either.

But ND only played one Big East team per year then, Pitt, with no obligation to do so. Now its 5 games with the ACC. Big difference!

(05-13-2017 12:52 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-13-2017 11:55 AM)Villecard Wrote:  On this shortened edition of LSL, Fox Sports’ Tim Brando (7:05) joined the program to discuss UofL hoops and football and the ACC. He also explained why he thinks Notre Dame will join the ACC in football. We reminisced about the Metro conference and the always entertaining Louisville-Memphis State games.

Listen HERE

It merely verified what I was told by a guy who has extremely well placed connections at N.D. He said that N.D. would join in concert with the ACCN's debut in 2019 and that they wanted Cincinnati as a travel partner.

So when I listened to the pod cast last night I could hear Brando resonating what I had been told.

It bodes very well for the ACCN's debut if it proves to be reliable.

Why on earth Cincy? Navy has the history with the Irish.

No offense to U of C or their fan base.

(05-14-2017 12:46 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(05-14-2017 12:10 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(05-14-2017 11:45 AM)micahandme Wrote:  It's weird that ND just announced their 5-game-per-year ACC deal recently. I don't think they would go through that charade...and then join the ACC next year. If anything, ND fans are going to feel so much a part of the ACC that by 2032, it won't be a big deal for them to go from 5-game to 8-game ACC schedule.

ND was a Big East member from 1995 until 2012.

ND fans did not "feel so much part of" that conference, either.

But ND only played one Big East team per year then, Pitt, with no obligation to do so. Now its 5 games with the ACC. Big difference!

With all of the talk over the last twenty years, all that has happened is that ND exchanged three games a year with the Big Ten (Michigan, Michigan State and Purdue) and two with the Big East (Pitt and BC) for five games with the ACC.

Ten to fifteen years ago, ND had bowl ties with the Big East. Now, it is with the ACC. Same as it ever was.

(05-14-2017 12:36 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(05-14-2017 08:49 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(05-14-2017 08:28 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  The most likely scenario for Notre Dame joining the ACC in football, IMO:
1. The Irish go many years without a playoff berth, while the ACC champ keeps making it
2. The ACC beats the Irish on a regular basis, making it look less like a step down
3. NBC signs up a conference like the AAC for football, making ND less important
4. ACC media rights continue to increase in value.

All of these are plausible, and together put ND in a "why not join" situation. The ACC will not attempt to "force" ND to join for football, however.

JMO

If all of these dire predictions and the suggested decline/collapse of ND football occur, you guys are stuck with a depleted, declined, lessened ND.

Because that contract about ND joining the ACC in football works both ways. ND has to join the ACC and (the 30 year lawyer in me says) that contract says the ACC has to accept ND football, no matter what lousy shape it is in.

It is a bilateral contract. That is first year law school contracts. Do you think ND signed an agreement that only obligates them, but not the ACC, to do something, a one way deal?

Why would the ACC want to root for that outcome? Does it want another BC or Wake?

ACC guys should root for the status quo instead. ND won't join unless it has a gun to its head and has no other choice. If it joins, that means the football program has pretty much collapsed.

Terry, I disagree. All four scenarios that HokieMark mentioned could take place without ND football being ruined or collapsing:

1) ND could realistically go another 5 years without making the playoffs. That plus the first 3 years that ND has already missed the playoffs make 8 years which, in cfb terms, equals many years. Meanwhile, Clemson, FSU are recruiting at a level that could realistically keep both of them taking turns in getting to the playoffs the next 5 years. Thats not even considering what the new coaches at Miami and VT are doing.

2)The ACC has upgraded its coaching ranks big time, and I can see a scenario where ND goes .500 or below, against the ACC the next 5 years. That doesnt however mean that ND's fb has collapsed.

3)With only ND football to broadcast fulltime, if NBC wanted to bring in a conference like the aac to compliment its ND package, thats not a knock on ND. NBC could use ND football to prop up ratings for a league like the AAC.

4) This is the most likely scenario. The ACC will likely see a large increase in its TV deal once the network gets going full time. Again, that has nothing to do with ND's football being ruined or collapsing.

ND is already contractually obligated to play 5 ACC teams per season. If you think thats football independence then I totally disagree. But I can say this, if ND didnt need to be contractually obligated to play 5 ACC teams a year, they wouldnt do it. But they do do it. And their football is not ruined or collapsing. Like someone else says, its not a far cry for ND to play an additional 3 games per season.

I think that you miss my point. There was talk in this thread about how lousy ND's program is and will be as an independent.

ND is not (absent P4 champs only playoff legislation) going to join a football conference unless and until its program is so damaged it has no other choice.

Do you want such a program then? Why?

(05-14-2017 01:15 PM)murrdcu Wrote:  

(05-13-2017 12:52 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-13-2017 11:55 AM)Villecard Wrote:  On this shortened edition of LSL, Fox Sports’ Tim Brando (7:05) joined the program to discuss UofL hoops and football and the ACC. He also explained why he thinks Notre Dame will join the ACC in football. We reminisced about the Metro conference and the always entertaining Louisville-Memphis State games.

Listen HERE

It merely verified what I was told by a guy who has extremely well placed connections at N.D. He said that N.D. would join in concert with the ACCN's debut in 2019 and that they wanted Cincinnati as a travel partner.

So when I listened to the pod cast last night I could hear Brando resonating what I had been told.

It bodes very well for the ACCN's debut if it proves to be reliable.

Why on earth Cincy? Navy has the history with the Irish.

No offense to U of C or their fan base.

Cincy is a lot closer to South Bend than Annapolis. It would also bridge a gap between ND and Louisville to the west and Pitt and Syracuse to east, and it would give the ACC a recruiting presence in talent-rich Ohio. Navy gets kudos, however, for producing outstanding naval and Marine Corps officers.

(05-14-2017 01:28 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(05-14-2017 12:36 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(05-14-2017 08:49 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(05-14-2017 08:28 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  The most likely scenario for Notre Dame joining the ACC in football, IMO:
1. The Irish go many years without a playoff berth, while the ACC champ keeps making it
2. The ACC beats the Irish on a regular basis, making it look less like a step down
3. NBC signs up a conference like the AAC for football, making ND less important
4. ACC media rights continue to increase in value.

All of these are plausible, and together put ND in a "why not join" situation. The ACC will not attempt to "force" ND to join for football, however.

JMO

If all of these dire predictions and the suggested decline/collapse of ND football occur, you guys are stuck with a depleted, declined, lessened ND.

Because that contract about ND joining the ACC in football works both ways. ND has to join the ACC and (the 30 year lawyer in me says) that contract says the ACC has to accept ND football, no matter what lousy shape it is in.

It is a bilateral contract. That is first year law school contracts. Do you think ND signed an agreement that only obligates them, but not the ACC, to do something, a one way deal?

Why would the ACC want to root for that outcome? Does it want another BC or Wake?

ACC guys should root for the status quo instead. ND won't join unless it has a gun to its head and has no other choice. If it joins, that means the football program has pretty much collapsed.

Terry, I disagree. All four scenarios that HokieMark mentioned could take place without ND football being ruined or collapsing:

1) ND could realistically go another 5 years without making the playoffs. That plus the first 3 years that ND has already missed the playoffs make 8 years which, in cfb terms, equals many years. Meanwhile, Clemson, FSU are recruiting at a level that could realistically keep both of them taking turns in getting to the playoffs the next 5 years. Thats not even considering what the new coaches at Miami and VT are doing.

2)The ACC has upgraded its coaching ranks big time, and I can see a scenario where ND goes .500 or below, against the ACC the next 5 years. That doesnt however mean that ND's fb has collapsed.

3)With only ND football to broadcast fulltime, if NBC wanted to bring in a conference like the aac to compliment its ND package, thats not a knock on ND. NBC could use ND football to prop up ratings for a league like the AAC.

4) This is the most likely scenario. The ACC will likely see a large increase in its TV deal once the network gets going full time. Again, that has nothing to do with ND's football being ruined or collapsing.

ND is already contractually obligated to play 5 ACC teams per season. If you think thats football independence then I totally disagree. But I can say this, if ND didnt need to be contractually obligated to play 5 ACC teams a year, they wouldnt do it. But they do do it. And their football is not ruined or collapsing. Like someone else says, its not a far cry for ND to play an additional 3 games per season.

I think that you miss my point. There was talk in this thread about how lousy ND's program is and will be as an independent.

ND is not (absent P4 champs only playoff legislation) going to join a football conference unless and until its program is so damaged it has no other choice.

Do you want such a program then? Why?

I dont believe that ND will be a lousy program over a prolonged period of time. But they could go thru a stretch similar to the Willingham/Davey period that would get them to more seriously consider a conference, similar to when Kevin White was leading the program.

(05-14-2017 02:28 PM)colohank Wrote:  

(05-14-2017 01:15 PM)murrdcu Wrote:  

(05-13-2017 12:52 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-13-2017 11:55 AM)Villecard Wrote:  On this shortened edition of LSL, Fox Sports’ Tim Brando (7:05) joined the program to discuss UofL hoops and football and the ACC. He also explained why he thinks Notre Dame will join the ACC in football. We reminisced about the Metro conference and the always entertaining Louisville-Memphis State games.

Listen HERE

It merely verified what I was told by a guy who has extremely well placed connections at N.D. He said that N.D. would join in concert with the ACCN's debut in 2019 and that they wanted Cincinnati as a travel partner.

So when I listened to the pod cast last night I could hear Brando resonating what I had been told.

It bodes very well for the ACCN's debut if it proves to be reliable.

Why on earth Cincy? Navy has the history with the Irish.

No offense to U of C or their fan base.

Cincy is a lot closer to South Bend than Annapolis. It would also bridge a gap between ND and Louisville to the west and Pitt and Syracuse to east, and it would give the ACC a recruiting presence in talent-rich Ohio. Navy gets kudos, however, for producing outstanding naval and Marine Corps officers.

Notre Dame wants Navy or they will not join the ACC.

(05-14-2017 03:15 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Notre Dame wants Navy or they will not join the ACC.

I see no reason for Navy not to accept an invitation if one ever materializes. They should be able to compete against the smaller and some of the mid-sized ACC schools.

(05-13-2017 05:26 PM)JRsec Wrote:  I don't know why you guys keep persisting with the "Navy" stuff? Don't you know that all three service academies have essentially agreed to stay out of the P5. Height and weight restrictions mean P5 schedules injure too many cadet and middies who are giving up an average of 80lbs a man on the line. And three weeks ago they did away with waivers for athletes getting a professional draft. All personnel will now serve their commitment before being eligible to leave for professional sports. The question is not will they enter the P conferences, but rather will they stay in the G ones.

So, are you suggesting that Navy asked to be put in the AAC West so they wouldn't have to face those bullies at Temple and UConn as often?

(05-13-2017 12:52 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-13-2017 11:55 AM)Villecard Wrote:  On this shortened edition of LSL, Fox Sports’ Tim Brando (7:05) joined the program to discuss UofL hoops and football and the ACC. He also explained why he thinks Notre Dame will join the ACC in football. We reminisced about the Metro conference and the always entertaining Louisville-Memphis State games.

Listen HERE

It merely verified what I was told by a guy who has extremely well placed connections at N.D. He said that N.D. would join in concert with the ACCN's debut in 2019 and that they wanted Cincinnati as a travel partner.

So when I listened to the pod cast last night I could hear Brando resonating what I had been told.

It bodes very well for the ACCN's debut if it proves to be reliable.

I can't express how much I want this to be true.

(05-14-2017 03:15 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(05-14-2017 02:28 PM)colohank Wrote:  

(05-14-2017 01:15 PM)murrdcu Wrote:  

(05-13-2017 12:52 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-13-2017 11:55 AM)Villecard Wrote:  On this shortened edition of LSL, Fox Sports’ Tim Brando (7:05) joined the program to discuss UofL hoops and football and the ACC. He also explained why he thinks Notre Dame will join the ACC in football. We reminisced about the Metro conference and the always entertaining Louisville-Memphis State games.

Listen HERE

It merely verified what I was told by a guy who has extremely well placed connections at N.D. He said that N.D. would join in concert with the ACCN's debut in 2019 and that they wanted Cincinnati as a travel partner.

So when I listened to the pod cast last night I could hear Brando resonating what I had been told.

It bodes very well for the ACCN's debut if it proves to be reliable.

Why on earth Cincy? Navy has the history with the Irish.

No offense to U of C or their fan base.

Cincy is a lot closer to South Bend than Annapolis. It would also bridge a gap between ND and Louisville to the west and Pitt and Syracuse to east, and it would give the ACC a recruiting presence in talent-rich Ohio. Navy gets kudos, however, for producing outstanding naval and Marine Corps officers.

Notre Dame wants Navy or they will not join the ACC.

Wow, that's a great example of a declarative sentence. You should contact Jack Swarbrick without delay to ensure that the both of you are on the same page.

(05-14-2017 08:23 PM)colohank Wrote:  

(05-14-2017 03:15 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(05-14-2017 02:28 PM)colohank Wrote:  

(05-14-2017 01:15 PM)murrdcu Wrote:  

(05-13-2017 12:52 PM)JRsec Wrote:  It merely verified what I was told by a guy who has extremely well placed connections at N.D. He said that N.D. would join in concert with the ACCN's debut in 2019 and that they wanted Cincinnati as a travel partner.

So when I listened to the pod cast last night I could hear Brando resonating what I had been told.

It bodes very well for the ACCN's debut if it proves to be reliable.

Why on earth Cincy? Navy has the history with the Irish.

No offense to U of C or their fan base.

Cincy is a lot closer to South Bend than Annapolis. It would also bridge a gap between ND and Louisville to the west and Pitt and Syracuse to east, and it would give the ACC a recruiting presence in talent-rich Ohio. Navy gets kudos, however, for producing outstanding naval and Marine Corps officers.

Notre Dame wants Navy or they will not join the ACC.

Wow, that's a great example of a declarative sentence. You should contact Jack Swarbrick without delay to ensure that the both of you are on the same page.

There have been more talk in the past few years that Navy could easily get all the votes to join the ACC. Cincinnati, West Virginia and UConn does not. There seems to be a school or 2 that are blocking those three. Boston College and Syracuse could be blocking UConn because of the tv markets. I think Syracuse claims the NYC market over UConn.
West Virginia might be blocked by the Virginia schools.
Cincinnati seems not to have anybody up to bat for them.

(05-14-2017 08:35 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(05-14-2017 08:23 PM)colohank Wrote:  

(05-14-2017 03:15 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(05-14-2017 02:28 PM)colohank Wrote:  

(05-14-2017 01:15 PM)murrdcu Wrote:  Why on earth Cincy? Navy has the history with the Irish.

No offense to U of C or their fan base.

Cincy is a lot closer to South Bend than Annapolis. It would also bridge a gap between ND and Louisville to the west and Pitt and Syracuse to east, and it would give the ACC a recruiting presence in talent-rich Ohio. Navy gets kudos, however, for producing outstanding naval and Marine Corps officers.

Notre Dame wants Navy or they will not join the ACC.

Wow, that's a great example of a declarative sentence. You should contact Jack Swarbrick without delay to ensure that the both of you are on the same page.

There have been more talk in the past few years that Navy could easily get all the votes to join the ACC. Cincinnati, West Virginia and UConn does not. There seems to be a school or 2 that are blocking those three. Boston College and Syracuse could be blocking UConn because of the tv markets. I think Syracuse claims the NYC market over UConn.
West Virginia might be blocked by the Virginia schools.
Cincinnati seems not to have anybody up to bat for them.

Your final assertion may very well turn out to be true, but not for the reasons alleged. To suggest that ND will be able to dictate which potential ACC expansion candidate might accompany it if it elects to go all-in is folly. ND is but one among many members of the ACC, and it's a partial member, at that. If Navy is tapped to join the ACC, the decision will be based on merit, not because one partial member demands it. So far as I know, the ACC hasn't even signaled a desire to expand.

You have no more knowledge of ND's or the ACC's intent than anyone else. All you're doing is regurgitating bits and pieces of the ill-informed speculation that runs rampant through all these realignment threads. Most, if not all, of that speculation, including yours, is just wishful thinking.

(05-14-2017 02:28 PM)colohank Wrote:  

(05-14-2017 01:15 PM)murrdcu Wrote:  

(05-13-2017 12:52 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(05-13-2017 11:55 AM)Villecard Wrote:  On this shortened edition of LSL, Fox Sports’ Tim Brando (7:05) joined the program to discuss UofL hoops and football and the ACC. He also explained why he thinks Notre Dame will join the ACC in football. We reminisced about the Metro conference and the always entertaining Louisville-Memphis State games.

Listen HERE

It merely verified what I was told by a guy who has extremely well placed connections at N.D. He said that N.D. would join in concert with the ACCN's debut in 2019 and that they wanted Cincinnati as a travel partner.

So when I listened to the pod cast last night I could hear Brando resonating what I had been told.

It bodes very well for the ACCN's debut if it proves to be reliable.

Why on earth Cincy? Navy has the history with the Irish.

No offense to U of C or their fan base.

Cincy is a lot closer to South Bend than Annapolis. It would also bridge a gap between ND and Louisville to the west and Pitt and Syracuse to east, and it would give the ACC a recruiting presence in talent-rich Ohio. Navy gets kudos, however, for producing outstanding naval and Marine Corps officers.

Also, Notre Dame, Cincinnati and Louisville create competitive Indiana, Ohio, and Kentucky triangle in the ACC, couple with thier nearest to Pittsburgh, Virginia and Virginia Tech.