(04-25-2017 11:22 AM)AlwaysSunny Wrote:  It's funny seeing people posts topics like this and the comments when people know themselves that it's not realistic lol. Yea they won't give you a dime but they're going to include you in a split lol.

Not very intelligent.

1) They can not exclude the Academies that opens them up to a lawsuit and to Congress (Not what the P5 wants)

2) They also need a conference to play in non-conference that they see as less powerful (Even if that may not be true)

3) They need a conference to look down on. The last thing the P5 conferences want to do is separate themselves and the Big 12 or Pac-12 be the lower conference in the new division. They could end up having the majority of Big 12 and Pac-12 schools with losing records as they would not have another conference to play in non-conference and would just get destroy the conferences winning percentage. Imagine a division with only P5s, schools like Kansas, Indiana, or Purdue could possibly never win another game in football or a school like Wake Forest would have no teams to pad their schedule and would always have loosing records. Plus SEC teams with big followings like Ole Miss, Mississippi State, Arkansas, etc who get by and keep boosters happy by going 8-4 (4-4 in conference) each year. With no teams left to play they have a good shot at going 5-7 most years as non-conferences game would now consist of Oklahoma, Nebraska, Texas, etc. instead of ULM, North Texas, UTSA.

Our helmets and our commissioner says P6, we are P6

I'd be careful about any split that leaves a large number of teams that are willing to spend money to stay relevant. You could see some teams just leave the NCAA and start spending stupid money on paying players.

Sure, the P5 teams can afford it better, but the impact would be to blow up the P5, where the Alabamas and the Oregons would swamp the Vandys and the Illinoises. Basically you'd see 20 schools be relevant....and none of them would be in the AAC.

The problem is that if there's a split in the NCAA, it could upset the entire applecart. Not just for the G5 schools. And I'm not sure that a 20 team superleague of top level football teams actually works well for even them.

(04-25-2017 03:57 PM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote:  

(04-25-2017 11:22 AM)AlwaysSunny Wrote:  It's funny seeing people posts topics like this and the comments when people know themselves that it's not realistic lol. Yea they won't give you a dime but they're going to include you in a split lol.

Not very intelligent.

1) They can not exclude the Academies that opens them up to a lawsuit and to Congress (Not what the P5 wants)

2) They also need a conference to play in non-conference that they see as less powerful (Even if that may not be true)

3) They need a conference to look down on. The last thing the P5 conferences want to do is separate themselves and the Big 12 or Pac-12 be the lower conference in the new division. They could end up having the majority of Big 12 and Pac-12 schools with losing records as they would not have another conference to play in non-conference and would just get destroy the conferences winning percentage. Imagine a division with only P5s, schools like Kansas, Indiana, or Purdue could possibly never win another game in football or a school like Wake Forest would have no teams to pad their schedule and would always have loosing records. Plus SEC teams with big followings like Ole Miss, Mississippi State, Arkansas, etc who get by and keep boosters happy by going 8-4 (4-4 in conference) each year. With no teams left to play they have a good shot at going 5-7 most years as non-conferences game would now consist of Oklahoma, Nebraska, Texas, etc. instead of ULM, North Texas, UTSA.

Dang it Low Country, you took most of my thoughts, and did a nice job with it. Oh well, here goes. Splitting is stupid. If P5* teams only play other P5* teams (as some conferences would like to do for all of their OOC) then half of them will suck. Too much inbreeding. 100 years or more of football tradition would be thrown out in lots of cases. Powerhouse teams like Alabama or Ohio State would continue to prosper while the number of P5* bottom feeders would grow and degenerate. The growing number of bottom feeders would have to be content with their TV money and lousy football programs, with little hope of advancement.

I didn't include P6 in this comment because the idea of shrinking your football gene pool is too dumb, and I wouldn't want to be a part of it (think more Rutgers, Virginia, Purdue). If ESPN is pushing this idea, they are killing the goose that laid the golden egg. To answer BC#1's question, no G4s. If I had to pick a conference, I would go with the Sun Belt because the name sounds happy.

P5* split:
Bad for TV
Bad for the P5*
Bad for football

With all that being said, I would not be surprised if a split occurred.

P5* - asterisk means fake designation. Think of the one they gave Roger Maris.

(04-25-2017 02:19 PM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  

(04-25-2017 09:09 AM)megadrone Wrote:  

(04-25-2017 07:46 AM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  

(04-25-2017 07:14 AM)dave108 Wrote:  

(04-25-2017 06:47 AM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  If there were a split, I have to think it will be:
-ACC
-Big East
-Big Ten
-Big XII
-Ivy League
-PAC 12
-SEC

And perhaps parts of the AAC, MW, WCC, and Indy. Maximum of 80 football schools and a maximum of 128 BB programs.

just curious - why include the ivy league?

They are too big, too rich, and too powerful to get left out.

And remember, their current status in FB is self-selected. They don't have to change their FB status (i.e. The Big East) but they could...in a second...if they wanted to.

They couldn't as a conference meet the attendance requirements, so I don't think the 1A option was open to them. They also don't offer scholarships, but I'm not sure if that has or would have had an impact. Dartmouth and Columbia have small stadia, probably Brown as well. When Palmer (Princeton) was renovated, it went from approximately 45K seating to 27K.

They self-selected out of the 1-AA/FCS playoffs.

They do not offer FB scholarships...right now...and that was their own selection. If they (the Ivy) decided to do something else, it wouldn't be a financial strain at all for them. The Ivy ***has*** changed it's BB scholarships to be more competitive.

Stadiums are less an issue for the Ivies than for the other conferences... They are elite schools; they don't NEED mega-sized stadiums. Besides which, each of the current "Power" conferences has at least one "smaller" stadium. But again...different conference, different needs. The SEC thrives on the "Mega" stadia. The Ivy is all about history, tradition, and prestige; smaller stadiums fit here. (And you do have the Yale Bowl which is 64k...)

The Ivy has exempted themselves out of the FCS playoffs...because they are non-scholarship FB at this point. I think there has been some discussion of a game with the Pioneer conference, which is also FCS-Non Scholarship.

As for any other metric...I can't see how the Ivy couldn't easily meet it.

EDIT:
So I looked it up, and here are the Ivy's FB stadium capacities...
Brown (Brown Stadium): 20k
Columbia (Wien Stadium): 17k
Cornell (Schoellkopf Field): 25.5k
Dartmouth (Memorial): 15.6k (recently reduced from 22k)
Harvard (Harvard Stadium): 30k
Penn (Franklin Field): 52.5k
Princeton (Princeton University Stadium): 27k
Yale (Yale Bowl): 64k

Currently, the NCAA FBS rules stipulate that you are supposed to average a minimum of 15k across two seasons. That has never been enforced...as Idaho had a sub-15k stadium before finally renovating an endzone and getting above 15k for the Kibbie Dome. Even then, there was no way Idaho averaged 15k for a season. But the point is that, in theory at least, the Ivy ***could*** meet the basic FBS requirements.

And this is all "theory" and hypothesis, after all.

From what I recall, the Ivy league was forced down to 1AA status. Here's the article from the New York Times in 1981 (The Ivy was reclassified along with the Southern Conference and the MAC):

New York Times report about the Ivy League

Apparently the schools didn't want to go to 1AA but were voted down and weren't given an exemption for the schools with smaller stadia or attendance problems.

The NCAA may not enforce the attendance requirements now, but they certainly wanted to back then.

why would we get to tag along?

Sent from my SM-J700T using CSNbbs mobile app

(04-25-2017 06:26 AM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  Will any of the G4 conferences be invited in the split? We have seen that there is potential one day for the P6 to split off from the ncaa altogether and start a new associate or get the NCAA to agree to allow for this split within the NCAA itself.

Either way, let's for a second assume the split happens. Which G4 conference would be invited if one is invited?

Candidates:
MWC
Sun Belt
MAC
CUSA


The question is, in the split will the teams that make up the current P6 be enough? One could argue yes. One could also argue that an additional conference would be called up to the big leagues.

IF an additional conference is needed, which G4 conference would get the call up and why?

Discuss

Easy one. The MWC they have some flagships, better academics and bigger budgets than the G3. They also provide more western fanbases / viewers.

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(04-25-2017 08:32 PM)Hood-rich Wrote:  why would we get to tag along?

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No offense Hood-rich but I think you are just a contrary person which is different from the average ECU fans on these boards. Let me ask you this. If you feel that the AAC is so screwed up and bad then where do you think your "supposed " team can go and do better or be better? I see you and a hand full of other "fans" run around any and every board making damn sure that no one says a doggone thing positive about this conference without yourselves coming down to "keep it real" for those of us trying to debate things with at least a positive attitude. We get it. We ain't ish so stop having hope, right?

(04-25-2017 11:49 PM)Tigersmoke3 Wrote:  

(04-25-2017 08:32 PM)Hood-rich Wrote:  why would we get to tag along?

Sent from my SM-J700T using CSNbbs mobile app

No offense Hood-rich but I think you are just a contrary person

yep...he is.

(04-25-2017 03:57 PM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote:  

(04-25-2017 11:22 AM)AlwaysSunny Wrote:  It's funny seeing people posts topics like this and the comments when people know themselves that it's not realistic lol. Yea they won't give you a dime but they're going to include you in a split lol.

Not very intelligent.

1) They can not exclude the Academies that opens them up to a lawsuit and to Congress (Not what the P5 wants)

2) They also need a conference to play in non-conference that they see as less powerful (Even if that may not be true)

3) They need a conference to look down on. The last thing the P5 conferences want to do is separate themselves and the Big 12 or Pac-12 be the lower conference in the new division. They could end up having the majority of Big 12 and Pac-12 schools with losing records as they would not have another conference to play in non-conference and would just get destroy the conferences winning percentage. Imagine a division with only P5s, schools like Kansas, Indiana, or Purdue could possibly never win another game in football or a school like Wake Forest would have no teams to pad their schedule and would always have loosing records. Plus SEC teams with big followings like Ole Miss, Mississippi State, Arkansas, etc who get by and keep boosters happy by going 8-4 (4-4 in conference) each year. With no teams left to play they have a good shot at going 5-7 most years as non-conferences game would now consist of Oklahoma, Nebraska, Texas, etc. instead of ULM, North Texas, UTSA.

This doesn't really make sense to me. Why would we not still play the G4? We still play against the FCS.

(04-26-2017 06:17 AM)CoastalJuan Wrote:  

(04-25-2017 03:57 PM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote:  

(04-25-2017 11:22 AM)AlwaysSunny Wrote:  It's funny seeing people posts topics like this and the comments when people know themselves that it's not realistic lol. Yea they won't give you a dime but they're going to include you in a split lol.

Not very intelligent.

1) They can not exclude the Academies that opens them up to a lawsuit and to Congress (Not what the P5 wants)

2) They also need a conference to play in non-conference that they see as less powerful (Even if that may not be true)

3) They need a conference to look down on. The last thing the P5 conferences want to do is separate themselves and the Big 12 or Pac-12 be the lower conference in the new division. They could end up having the majority of Big 12 and Pac-12 schools with losing records as they would not have another conference to play in non-conference and would just get destroy the conferences winning percentage. Imagine a division with only P5s, schools like Kansas, Indiana, or Purdue could possibly never win another game in football or a school like Wake Forest would have no teams to pad their schedule and would always have loosing records. Plus SEC teams with big followings like Ole Miss, Mississippi State, Arkansas, etc who get by and keep boosters happy by going 8-4 (4-4 in conference) each year. With no teams left to play they have a good shot at going 5-7 most years as non-conferences game would now consist of Oklahoma, Nebraska, Texas, etc. instead of ULM, North Texas, UTSA.

This doesn't really make sense to me. Why would we not still play the G4? We still play against the FCS.

The P6 would still schedule against the G4. Just be on a limited basis though.

^Agree

2 for 1

or 1 and done with agreed 1 and 1 hoops series

(04-25-2017 11:49 PM)Tigersmoke3 Wrote:  

(04-25-2017 08:32 PM)Hood-rich Wrote:  why would we get to tag along?

Sent from my SM-J700T using CSNbbs mobile app

No offense Hood-rich but I think you are just a contrary person which is different from the average ECU fans on these boards. Let me ask you this. If you feel that the AAC is so screwed up and bad then where do you think your "supposed " team can go and do better or be better? I see you and a hand full of other "fans" run around any and every board making damn sure that no one says a doggone thing positive about this conference without yourselves coming down to "keep it real" for those of us trying to debate things with at least a positive attitude. We get it. We ain't ish so stop having hope, right?

You're not offending me any at all. I get what you're saying. FWIW, I have plenty of good things to say about this league. We're an excellent basketball league, have above average football, much better than average G5 attendance, much better TV deal, better exposure than some P5's....

I'm just asking for a reason that THEY WOULD LET US tag along. I think we have a lot of selling points but let's be honest. They're the one's that make the rules now... literally, they have a disproportional share of the vote. We're looked at as "lesser". It just is what it is.

Perhaps if my school had more positives right now my outlook would be sunnier. Right now we're a train wreck and aren't helping our argument at all.

When the P6 splits, the Group of 4 will form their own division and finally hold their own championship that the NIU AD seems to want so bad.

(04-26-2017 09:03 AM)Hood-rich Wrote:  

(04-25-2017 11:49 PM)Tigersmoke3 Wrote:  

(04-25-2017 08:32 PM)Hood-rich Wrote:  why would we get to tag along?

Sent from my SM-J700T using CSNbbs mobile app

No offense Hood-rich but I think you are just a contrary person which is different from the average ECU fans on these boards. Let me ask you this. If you feel that the AAC is so screwed up and bad then where do you think your "supposed " team can go and do better or be better? I see you and a hand full of other "fans" run around any and every board making damn sure that no one says a doggone thing positive about this conference without yourselves coming down to "keep it real" for those of us trying to debate things with at least a positive attitude. We get it. We ain't ish so stop having hope, right?

You're not offending me any at all. I get what you're saying. FWIW, I have plenty of good things to say about this league. We're an excellent basketball league, have above average football, much better than average G5 attendance, much better TV deal, better exposure than some P5's....

I'm just asking for a reason that THEY WOULD LET US tag along. I think we have a lot of selling points but let's be honest. They're the one's that make the rules now... literally, they have a disproportional share of the vote. We're looked at as "lesser". It just is what it is.

Perhaps if my school had more positives right now my outlook would be sunnier. Right now we're a train wreck and aren't helping our argument at all.

Getting some bycatch here...

This thread........P6, etc.

Looking at all the posts by folks from other conferences it looks like the Bat Signal was initiated.

(04-26-2017 11:36 PM)Green Menace Wrote:  This thread........P6, etc.

Love these guys. ^^^ LOLOLOL

(04-25-2017 07:27 PM)megadrone Wrote:  

(04-25-2017 02:19 PM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  

(04-25-2017 09:09 AM)megadrone Wrote:  

(04-25-2017 07:46 AM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  

(04-25-2017 07:14 AM)dave108 Wrote:  just curious - why include the ivy league?

They are too big, too rich, and too powerful to get left out.

And remember, their current status in FB is self-selected. They don't have to change their FB status (i.e. The Big East) but they could...in a second...if they wanted to.

They couldn't as a conference meet the attendance requirements, so I don't think the 1A option was open to them. They also don't offer scholarships, but I'm not sure if that has or would have had an impact. Dartmouth and Columbia have small stadia, probably Brown as well. When Palmer (Princeton) was renovated, it went from approximately 45K seating to 27K.

They self-selected out of the 1-AA/FCS playoffs.

They do not offer FB scholarships...right now...and that was their own selection. If they (the Ivy) decided to do something else, it wouldn't be a financial strain at all for them. The Ivy ***has*** changed it's BB scholarships to be more competitive.

Stadiums are less an issue for the Ivies than for the other conferences... They are elite schools; they don't NEED mega-sized stadiums. Besides which, each of the current "Power" conferences has at least one "smaller" stadium. But again...different conference, different needs. The SEC thrives on the "Mega" stadia. The Ivy is all about history, tradition, and prestige; smaller stadiums fit here. (And you do have the Yale Bowl which is 64k...)

The Ivy has exempted themselves out of the FCS playoffs...because they are non-scholarship FB at this point. I think there has been some discussion of a game with the Pioneer conference, which is also FCS-Non Scholarship.

As for any other metric...I can't see how the Ivy couldn't easily meet it.

EDIT:
So I looked it up, and here are the Ivy's FB stadium capacities...
Brown (Brown Stadium): 20k
Columbia (Wien Stadium): 17k
Cornell (Schoellkopf Field): 25.5k
Dartmouth (Memorial): 15.6k (recently reduced from 22k)
Harvard (Harvard Stadium): 30k
Penn (Franklin Field): 52.5k
Princeton (Princeton University Stadium): 27k
Yale (Yale Bowl): 64k

Currently, the NCAA FBS rules stipulate that you are supposed to average a minimum of 15k across two seasons. That has never been enforced...as Idaho had a sub-15k stadium before finally renovating an endzone and getting above 15k for the Kibbie Dome. Even then, there was no way Idaho averaged 15k for a season. But the point is that, in theory at least, the Ivy ***could*** meet the basic FBS requirements.

And this is all "theory" and hypothesis, after all.

From what I recall, the Ivy league was forced down to 1AA status. Here's the article from the New York Times in 1981 (The Ivy was reclassified along with the Southern Conference and the MAC):

New York Times report about the Ivy League

bad/dead link

Always appreciate Texas Northern CC checking in. Hey tell us again how you guys took 76,000 to the Whogives-a-Crap Bowl...