(04-10-2017 03:46 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(04-10-2017 03:20 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  Muslims. Go figure.

No....

State Authorities, under the direct control of Vladimir Putin. Full Stop.

Source?

I've heard Chechens/ Muslims.

(04-10-2017 03:46 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(04-10-2017 03:26 PM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  OH MUH PUTIN!

We are talking about genocide here.

Well...That is what much of the Islamic world seeks when it it comes to homosexuals.

(04-10-2017 04:06 PM)LeFlâneur Wrote:  This is an issue that should be addressed by the United Nations Commission on Human Rights.

Yup. Should be.

Soon as they're freed up from their latest resolution condemning Israel, of course. So maybe late 2019? Give/take?

(04-10-2017 04:11 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(04-10-2017 03:46 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(04-10-2017 03:26 PM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  OH MUH PUTIN!

We are talking about genocide here.

Well...That is what much of the Islamic world seeks when it it comes to homosexuals.

Last time I checked the two people in control of Chechnya are both Russian Orthodox.

(04-10-2017 04:11 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(04-10-2017 03:46 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(04-10-2017 03:26 PM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  OH MUH PUTIN!

We are talking about genocide here.

Well...That is what much of the Islamic world seeks when it it comes to homosexuals.

shhh... dont burst his bubble. Tom thinks that they are lovely and peaceful.

(04-10-2017 04:13 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(04-10-2017 04:11 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(04-10-2017 03:46 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(04-10-2017 03:26 PM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  OH MUH PUTIN!

We are talking about genocide here.

Well...That is what much of the Islamic world seeks when it it comes to homosexuals.

Last time I checked the two people in control of Chechnya are both Russian Orthodox.

Non-practicing I'm sure. They were born into the religion like I was born into Catholicism. That still doesn't make them Orthodox. Christians don't murder if they're really Christian.

(04-10-2017 04:13 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(04-10-2017 04:11 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(04-10-2017 03:46 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(04-10-2017 03:26 PM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  OH MUH PUTIN!

We are talking about genocide here.

Well...That is what much of the Islamic world seeks when it it comes to homosexuals.

Last time I checked the two people in control of Chechnya are both Russian Orthodox.

Ramzan Kadyrov is Muslim, the son of an imam.

(04-10-2017 04:17 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  

(04-10-2017 04:13 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(04-10-2017 04:11 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(04-10-2017 03:46 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(04-10-2017 03:26 PM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  OH MUH PUTIN!

We are talking about genocide here.

Well...That is what much of the Islamic world seeks when it it comes to homosexuals.

Last time I checked the two people in control of Chechnya are both Russian Orthodox.

Non-practicing I'm sure. They were born into the religion like I was born into Catholicism. That still doesn't make them Orthodox. Christians don't murder if they're really Christian.

Putin and Medvedyev are both members in good standing. I haven't seen the ROC step up on this.

(04-10-2017 04:19 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(04-10-2017 04:13 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(04-10-2017 04:11 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(04-10-2017 03:46 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(04-10-2017 03:26 PM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  OH MUH PUTIN!

We are talking about genocide here.

Well...That is what much of the Islamic world seeks when it it comes to homosexuals.

Last time I checked the two people in control of Chechnya are both Russian Orthodox.

Ramzan Kadyrov is Muslim, the son of an imam.

Who serves under the direct control of Medvedyev and Putin...

(04-10-2017 04:22 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(04-10-2017 04:19 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(04-10-2017 04:13 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(04-10-2017 04:11 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(04-10-2017 03:46 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  We are talking about genocide here.

Well...That is what much of the Islamic world seeks when it it comes to homosexuals.

Last time I checked the two people in control of Chechnya are both Russian Orthodox.

Ramzan Kadyrov is Muslim, the son of an imam.

Who serves under the direct control of Medvedyev and Putin...

Link from a reputable source?

(04-10-2017 04:21 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(04-10-2017 04:17 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  

(04-10-2017 04:13 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(04-10-2017 04:11 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(04-10-2017 03:46 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  We are talking about genocide here.

Well...That is what much of the Islamic world seeks when it it comes to homosexuals.

Last time I checked the two people in control of Chechnya are both Russian Orthodox.

Non-practicing I'm sure. They were born into the religion like I was born into Catholicism. That still doesn't make them Orthodox. Christians don't murder if they're really Christian.

Putin and Medvedyev are both members in good standing. I haven't seen the ROC step up on this.

What's ROC? Roman Orthodox Church? I think you mean the Greek Orthodox Church. But, I could be wrong.

(04-10-2017 04:24 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  

(04-10-2017 04:21 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(04-10-2017 04:17 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  

(04-10-2017 04:13 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(04-10-2017 04:11 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  Well...That is what much of the Islamic world seeks when it it comes to homosexuals.

Last time I checked the two people in control of Chechnya are both Russian Orthodox.

Non-practicing I'm sure. They were born into the religion like I was born into Catholicism. That still doesn't make them Orthodox. Christians don't murder if they're really Christian.

Putin and Medvedyev are both members in good standing. I haven't seen the ROC step up on this.

What's ROC? Roman Orthodox Church? I think you mean the Greek Orthodox Church. But, I could be wrong.

Russian Orthodox Church

See, I WAS wrong.

(04-10-2017 03:55 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(04-10-2017 03:53 PM)Jugnaut Wrote:  

(04-10-2017 03:46 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(04-10-2017 03:20 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  Muslims. Go figure.

No....

State Authorities, under the direct control of Vladimir Putin. Full Stop.

Chechnya is the most autonomous and border rebellious region of Russia. There's a constant tension between Putin's federal authorities and Chechen authorities. To such a degree that federal agents have been threatened and Intimidated any time they try to operate in Chechnya. So I wouldn't call it the direct control of Putin. That said, I'm sure he's not sad about it.

Not anymore. Kadyrov is Putin's appointed Governor. He controls Chechnya and the current government there. Period.

Here's what I was talking about...from Vox:
Link to Vox Article

Some key excerpts:

This year has seen a sometimes bizarre battle of wills between Kadyrov and the Kremlin, though. Kadyrov has been Putin’s man in rebellious Chechnya since 2007. He has made Chechnya a haven of relative stability in the turbulent North Caucasus.

* * *


Chechnya is a police state controlled by the so-called "Kadyrovtsy," security forces technically subordinated to Moscow but in practice loyal to Kadyrov.

* * *

The heads of the Russian security agencies, united in regarding Kadyrov as a threat, had hoped Kadyrov’s actions would be enough to persuade Putin to abandon his protégé, but ultimately Putin backed away, lest he ignite another war in Chechnya.

Rather than being humbled, Kadyrov continued to up the ante. When a politician from Siberia called him "a disgrace to Russia" on Facebook, a gang of "representatives of the Chechen people" visited him to hint that he could suffer the same fate as Nemtsov, unless he publicly apologized. Kadyrov then went on to post a video on Instagram — his favorite means of communication — showing opposition politicians in a rifle’s crosshairs.

He even warned federal law enforcement that if they tried to come into Chechnya without his permission, his men would shoot to kill.

Kadyrov’s behavior is straight out of Putin’s own playbook. Putin challenges and threatens NATO, an alliance that outspends and outguns Russia, in the expectation that the West will back away from an open confrontation. He breaks the rules of international diplomacy, relying on his opponents not daring to call his bluff, in case matters spin out of control.

Likewise, Kadyrov was challenging Moscow openly, even though Moscow controls his purse strings and has 10 soldiers for every one of his. Instead, he was relying on Putin’s unwillingness – when his forces were already mired in Ukraine and Syria – to risk a third war in Chechnya.

But being allowed to quite literally get away with murder is one thing. What Kadyrov really wanted was much bigger: a promise that he would also continue to get Moscow’s money. After all, he needs that money not just for his own entertainment but also to buy off his cronies and trigger men.

So in February this year, he shocked everyone by offering to step down, saying maybe it was time for Putin to pick a new leader, so he could devote himself to his family, to Islam, maybe even join the army.

It was a disingenuous and daring piece of blackmail. Over the years, every Chechen who posed a plausible challenge to his rule has been murdered. Chechnya’s 30,000-strong security forces are known as the "Kadyrovtsy" precisely because they swear a personal oath to him.

By daring the regime to try to find a new Chechen leader, he was in effect forcing them to acknowledge that they could not. At the time, a Russian security official told me that "if anyone there even hints that he’d be willing to take Ramzan’s place, the Kadyrovtsy would throw his body in the Sunzha [River] next morning."

* * *

(04-10-2017 07:10 PM)Jugnaut Wrote:  

(04-10-2017 03:55 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(04-10-2017 03:53 PM)Jugnaut Wrote:  

(04-10-2017 03:46 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(04-10-2017 03:20 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  Muslims. Go figure.

No....

State Authorities, under the direct control of Vladimir Putin. Full Stop.

Chechnya is the most autonomous and border rebellious region of Russia. There's a constant tension between Putin's federal authorities and Chechen authorities. To such a degree that federal agents have been threatened and Intimidated any time they try to operate in Chechnya. So I wouldn't call it the direct control of Putin. That said, I'm sure he's not sad about it.

Not anymore. Kadyrov is Putin's appointed Governor. He controls Chechnya and the current government there. Period.

Here's what I was talking about...from Vox:
Link to Vox Article

Some key excerpts:

This year has seen a sometimes bizarre battle of wills between Kadyrov and the Kremlin, though. Kadyrov has been Putin’s man in rebellious Chechnya since 2007. He has made Chechnya a haven of relative stability in the turbulent North Caucasus.

* * *


Chechnya is a police state controlled by the so-called "Kadyrovtsy," security forces technically subordinated to Moscow but in practice loyal to Kadyrov.

* * *

The heads of the Russian security agencies, united in regarding Kadyrov as a threat, had hoped Kadyrov’s actions would be enough to persuade Putin to abandon his protégé, but ultimately Putin backed away, lest he ignite another war in Chechnya.

Rather than being humbled, Kadyrov continued to up the ante. When a politician from Siberia called him "a disgrace to Russia" on Facebook, a gang of "representatives of the Chechen people" visited him to hint that he could suffer the same fate as Nemtsov, unless he publicly apologized. Kadyrov then went on to post a video on Instagram — his favorite means of communication — showing opposition politicians in a rifle’s crosshairs.

He even warned federal law enforcement that if they tried to come into Chechnya without his permission, his men would shoot to kill.

Kadyrov’s behavior is straight out of Putin’s own playbook. Putin challenges and threatens NATO, an alliance that outspends and outguns Russia, in the expectation that the West will back away from an open confrontation. He breaks the rules of international diplomacy, relying on his opponents not daring to call his bluff, in case matters spin out of control.

Likewise, Kadyrov was challenging Moscow openly, even though Moscow controls his purse strings and has 10 soldiers for every one of his. Instead, he was relying on Putin’s unwillingness – when his forces were already mired in Ukraine and Syria – to risk a third war in Chechnya.

But being allowed to quite literally get away with murder is one thing. What Kadyrov really wanted was much bigger: a promise that he would also continue to get Moscow’s money. After all, he needs that money not just for his own entertainment but also to buy off his cronies and trigger men.

So in February this year, he shocked everyone by offering to step down, saying maybe it was time for Putin to pick a new leader, so he could devote himself to his family, to Islam, maybe even join the army.

It was a disingenuous and daring piece of blackmail. Over the years, every Chechen who posed a plausible challenge to his rule has been murdered. Chechnya’s 30,000-strong security forces are known as the "Kadyrovtsy" precisely because they swear a personal oath to him.

By daring the regime to try to find a new Chechen leader, he was in effect forcing them to acknowledge that they could not. At the time, a Russian security official told me that "if anyone there even hints that he’d be willing to take Ramzan’s place, the Kadyrovtsy would throw his body in the Sunzha [River] next morning."

* * *

Putin put him in power and keeps him there. Putin runs Chechnya. Either way, he's in control and its more than nominal control. And Ramzan's concentration camp and killings are still going on and are consistent with Russian persecution of LGBT persons.

(04-10-2017 03:46 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(04-10-2017 03:26 PM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  OH MUH PUTIN!

We are talking about genocide here.

Isn't the whole LGBT scene a sort of genocide? There is no continuation from generation to generation.

(04-10-2017 03:47 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(04-10-2017 03:21 PM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  More like... Chechen Muslims have opened a concentration camp for gay people.

No...Vladimir Putin rules Chechnya and the authorities there from Ramzan on down are fully under his control and serve completely at his orders.

Quote:Kadyrov, who introduced Islamic rule in the Muslim-majority region, has been accused of earlier human rights violations.
He described the allegations as 'absolute lies and disinformation'.
Kadyrov's spokesman Alvi Karimov told the Interfax News Agency: 'You cannot arrest or repress people who just don't exist in the republic.
'If such people existed in Chechnya, law enforcement would not have to worry about them, as their own relatives would have sent them to where they could never return.'


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...z4duB9fFvM
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

I'm pointing out the obvious, most direct reason (as has plenty of others) for this being a Muslim caused issue. Having said that, it's wrong to do anything like this regardless of who orders it. It makes it no less heinous whether it's Muslims or Russian Orthodox people running concentration camps.

(04-10-2017 07:23 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Putin put him in power and keeps him there. Putin runs Chechnya. Either way, he's in control and its more than nominal control. And Ramzan's concentration camp and killings are still going on and are consistent with Russian persecution of LGBT persons.

Putin put him there since he's one of the few idiots that can maintain half-control of the region.

Russian LGBT issues do exist in the major cities, but it takes on a different face and isn't nearly as harsh (although it is rather unacceptable).

This is more of an extremist Muslim thing than a Putin thing. Something should be done about it, but it's hard to define what since you don't want to lose thousands trying to correct the sins against 100. Sanctions have already been in effect for a while now, so that's off the books...

Chechnya is a chithole. Meh.

(04-10-2017 10:09 PM)oliveandblue Wrote:  

(04-10-2017 07:23 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Putin put him in power and keeps him there. Putin runs Chechnya. Either way, he's in control and its more than nominal control. And Ramzan's concentration camp and killings are still going on and are consistent with Russian persecution of LGBT persons.

Putin put him there since he's one of the few idiots that can maintain half-control of the region.

Russian LGBT issues do exist in the major cities, but it takes on a different face and isn't nearly as harsh (although it is rather unacceptable).

This is more of an extremist Muslim thing than a Putin thing. Something should be done about it, but it's hard to define what since you don't want to lose thousands trying to correct the sins against 100. Sanctions have already been in effect for a while now, so that's off the books...

Chechnya is a chithole. Meh.

We can do more. We should do more. Asset seizures, bans on travel for people tied to Putin's genocidal regime, taxes on the FIFA World Cup, etc. We can also put groups materially supportive of Putin's attacks on LGBT persons on the terrorist list and make fundraising for them illegal.

This is real genocide folks. Dachau on the Don.