(03-29-2017 11:32 AM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(03-29-2017 11:32 AM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(03-29-2017 10:03 AM)HoustonCajun Wrote:  

(03-28-2017 11:54 AM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(03-27-2017 06:05 PM)USM@FTL Wrote:  Appy State
Charlotte
Old Dominion
Marshall
Western Kentucky
Middle Tennessee

Georgia Southern
Georgia State
Florida Atlantic
Florida International
South Alabama
Troy

ULaLa
ULaMo
UAB
USM
Louisiana Tech
Arkansas State

Rice
North Texas
Texas-San Antonio
Texas-El Paso
Texas State
NMSU

Yours looks good as well but you omitted Coastal Carolina of the Belch for NM St.

I included both Coastal and NMSU. The realignment as indicated has 12 teams in each conference, as an All Sports conference (left out UALR and UTA). I didn't include ULM for 2 reasons. ULM is the odd team out primarily because their budget ($12M) will not sustain them in the long run in FBS and LA Tech would not be in a conference with them (won't even play them in any sport).

I didn't realize LT won't play Monroe in any sport....

Looking at schedules from the current athletic year:
ULM @ LTU (WVB) 10/4/16
LTU @ ULM (WBB) 11/29/16
ULM @ LTU (BB) 3/28/17
LTU @ ULM (BB) 4/11/17
LTU @ ULM (SB) 4/12/17
ULM @ LTU (SB) 4/26/17

I could find more in the other minor sports, but that's what I've found so far.

(03-29-2017 01:54 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  The other problem is that people assume that the Belt is just going to say..."sure...we will vote to disband simply so we can play with some CUSA members". The order of how a vote happens is critical. Is CUSA going to vote to expel its Western members? No. Are half the Belt schools going to vote to disband so they can play with UTSA and UTEP? Are UTA and UALR (who have a full vote) going to vote to go back to the Southland?

I get it. Some people in CUSA would like App. But if the Belt isn't disbanding and CUSA isn't ejecting members, then what CUSA has to offer App is the 15th conference slot where they'll be in a conference with a few local teams in a huge conference that would still be massively unstable, will continue to stretch across three time zones, that has a football, baseball, and basketball product that is no better, and where they'll be no more money, no more TV exposure, and they'll have to pay a million bucks to the Belt as an exit fee. App currently has 3 conference members within 350 miles. Join CUSA, and they'd have 4. Big friggin' whoop.

CUSA had a chance to take App. They picked first and picked UNCC.

Oh I don't think the thing will happen amiably. And really what's the exit fee for the Sun Belt $1 million? No you're not going to get the 2 conferences to play red rover until everyone's happy. There will be people who are unhappy enough to want to make a change. They'd probably have to get a waiver from the NCAA to form a new conference and get the autobids but another conference would probably die in the horse trading.

(03-29-2017 02:18 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Lets take into account that the Big 12 and the other P5 conferences decides to raid again.

AAC could grab these teams.

UMass.
Old Dominion
Rice
Southern Mississippi
Wichita State all sports including football in the future.
Dayton
VCU

MWC could grab these teams.
UTEP
UTSA
Portland State
Gonzaga
Saint Mary's
Sacramento State
Chaminade to give a travel partner for Hawaii.
Hawaii for all sports
Long Beach State
Cal.-Davis
Cal. Poly
Northern Arizona
Montana
Montana State
either Colorado State-Pueblo or Colorado Mesa down the road if they lose both Colorado State and Air Force.
North Dakota State
South Dakota State

C-USA could split in half.
West:
La. Tech
North Texas
New Mexico State
West Texas A&M (only D2 school that does have a FBS size stadium that is ready to join FBS, and would be a travel partner for New Mexico State as close as they are.)
Northern Illinois?
Arkansas State
Little Rock or they could join the WAC.
La.-Lafayette
Texas State
UTA or they could join the WAC.
Illinois State? Travel partner for Northern Illinois
Missouri State
Northern Iowa
North Dakota
Sam Houston State
SFA
South Dakota

East:
UAB would miss USM.
FAU
FIU
Marshall
Mid. Tennessee State
Charlotte
Western Kentucky
Buffalo
Toledo
Georgia State
South Alabama
James Madison
Delaware
Stony Brook
Towson
Vermont
George Mason
College of Charleston
George Washington
Saint Joseph's

SBC:East:
Appalachian State
Coastal Carolina
Georgia Southern
Troy
Eastern Kentucky
Jacksonville State
Chattanooga
North Florida

SBC WEST:
La.-Monroe
Tenn. State
Central Arkansas
McNeese State
Lamar
Jackson State
UTRGV with football
Drury or UMKC

How many ways can "NO" be said?

(03-29-2017 02:58 PM)AZcats Wrote:  

(03-29-2017 02:18 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Lets take into account that the Big 12 and the other P5 conferences decides to raid again.

AAC could grab these teams.

UMass.
Old Dominion
Rice
Southern Mississippi
Wichita State all sports including football in the future.
Dayton
VCU

MWC could grab these teams.
UTEP
UTSA
Portland State
Gonzaga
Saint Mary's
Sacramento State
Chaminade to give a travel partner for Hawaii.
Hawaii for all sports
Long Beach State
Cal.-Davis
Cal. Poly
Northern Arizona
Montana
Montana State
either Colorado State-Pueblo or Colorado Mesa down the road if they lose both Colorado State and Air Force.
North Dakota State
South Dakota State

C-USA could split in half.
West:
La. Tech
North Texas
New Mexico State
West Texas A&M (only D2 school that does have a FBS size stadium that is ready to join FBS, and would be a travel partner for New Mexico State as close as they are.)
Northern Illinois?
Arkansas State
Little Rock or they could join the WAC.
La.-Lafayette
Texas State
UTA or they could join the WAC.
Illinois State? Travel partner for Northern Illinois
Missouri State
Northern Iowa
North Dakota
Sam Houston State
SFA
South Dakota

East:
UAB would miss USM.
FAU
FIU
Marshall
Mid. Tennessee State
Charlotte
Western Kentucky
Buffalo
Toledo
Georgia State
South Alabama
James Madison
Delaware
Stony Brook
Towson
Vermont
George Mason
College of Charleston
George Washington
Saint Joseph's

SBC:East:
Appalachian State
Coastal Carolina
Georgia Southern
Troy
Eastern Kentucky
Jacksonville State
Chattanooga
North Florida

SBC WEST:
La.-Monroe
Tenn. State
Central Arkansas
McNeese State
Lamar
Jackson State
UTRGV with football
Drury or UMKC

How many ways can "NO" be said?

How many times people want to include teams that could be gone before any split happens? UTEP could be gone to the MWC before any split do happen. Same with Old Dominion and USM.

(03-29-2017 10:55 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(03-18-2017 08:48 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  This 14 member behemoth just seems to be too big and unwieldily and sent delivering the kind of tv contract the old line up did. I think it's time to consider splitting the east and west apart and having each side pick up 3 additional members to create two 10 member leagues.

Possible additions
WEST: UL Lafayette, Arkansas St, Texas St (others include NMSU and S Alabama)
EAST: James Madison, Georgia St, Georgia Southern, App St, S Alabama

i don't think the current continuity rules would prohibit both sides from autobids.

Ok...Lets go through this.

1) CUSA cannot split into two conferences and have both conferences retain bids without waivers.
2) Any split must be approved by a 2/3rds majority of all CUSA members. Basically everyone must be happy. This is the bigger problem. How do you split it up? Remember the rules. UAB wants to stay with USM. La Tech wants to stay with USM. MTSU and WKU need to stay together. Marshall needs to stay with at least one Florida school and both Florida schools need to stay together. So you'd get the following best case scenario for a split.

MTSU, WKU, Marshall, UNCC ODU, FIU, FAU. and UAB, Rice, LTU, UTEP, UTSA, UNT, and USM. I suppose its possible, but MTSU and WKU recruit the West and USM might not like it either.

And then who would join either of those conferences? James Madison? Maybe. Texas State? Maybe. Beyond that, I'm not seeing a whole lot of interest. There'd be no more money in it.

And then there's the problem that the two new conferences would be a LOT more at risk than they are together. What does the "East" conference look like if WKU and MTSU try to return to the Belt. What happens if USM or Rice get called to the AAC?

Dude, why do you have to claim that something is impossible just because you don't like it?

You make it sound like getting a waiver is about as difficult as ULM winning the FBS Playoffs. It's been done before for the Big East. They also bent some rules to allow the WAC to stay in existence. In all likelihood they are going to get that waiver based on precedent.

As far as making 2/3rds of C-USA happy I think that's going to be accomplished. Schools like UAB, UTEP, Middle Tenn, WKU, and LA Tech are going to love having an easier path to the men's NCAA basketball tournament. The Texas schools all end up together in the West. LA Tech gets Texas recruiting and USM in the West. UAB and USM get to stay together in the West. Florida schools are together in the East along with Marshall for FL recruiting WKU and Mid Tenn stick together in the East along with ODU and Charlotte. About the only two schools with much proximity to eachother that don't end up in the same league are UAB and Mid Tenn and they don't really have much history together so I don't think anyone will tear up over it.

You mention that WKU and Mid Tenn recruit the West. How many Texas kids do they have on their rosters? In the current set up in C-USA with just one home ans one away game against the other division they are maybe only getting one game in Texas every other year so they aren't losing much.

You make the Sunbelt out to be a paradise that everyone loves to be in but if it's so great why do their schools keep leaving to join C-USA? The answer is the conference is perceived to be a higher quality group of schools and athletic programs. 5 or 6 Sunbelt schools would be joining these two new C-USA leagues where they will enjoy being associated with better teams and have a better travel footprint. Arkansas St, UL Lafayette, and Texas St would jump on the C-USA West bandwagon in an instant if given the offer. The same with James Madison and any of the eastern based Sunbelt teams.

You talk about no money being in it but I think there is more money in either of these expanded C-USA divisions than in what's left of the Sunbelt after it has been raided. If schools are given the option of either jumping or getting left behind they are going to jump. UNT did. FAU did. Mid Tenn did. So did FIU and WKU.

(03-29-2017 10:55 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(03-18-2017 08:48 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  This 14 member behemoth just seems to be too big and unwieldily and sent delivering the kind of tv contract the old line up did. I think it's time to consider splitting the east and west apart and having each side pick up 3 additional members to create two 10 member leagues.

Possible additions
WEST: UL Lafayette, Arkansas St, Texas St (others include NMSU and S Alabama)
EAST: James Madison, Georgia St, Georgia Southern, App St, S Alabama

i don't think the current continuity rules would prohibit both sides from autobids.

Ok...Lets go through this.

1) CUSA cannot split into two conferences and have both conferences retain bids without waivers.
2) Any split must be approved by a 2/3rds majority of all CUSA members. Basically everyone must be happy. This is the bigger problem. How do you split it up? Remember the rules. UAB wants to stay with USM. La Tech wants to stay with USM. MTSU and WKU need to stay together. Marshall needs to stay with at least one Florida school and both Florida schools need to stay together. So you'd get the following best case scenario for a split.

MTSU, WKU, Marshall, UNCC ODU, FIU, FAU. and UAB, Rice, LTU, UTEP, UTSA, UNT, and USM. I suppose its possible, but MTSU and WKU recruit the West and USM might not like it either.

And then who would join either of those conferences? James Madison? Maybe. Texas State? Maybe. Beyond that, I'm not seeing a whole lot of interest. There'd be no more money in it.

And then there's the problem that the two new conferences would be a LOT more at risk than they are together. What does the "East" conference look like if WKU and MTSU try to return to the Belt. What happens if USM or Rice get called to the AAC?

Well---it only happens when its beneficial for most teams. The realization that its no longer worth flying across the country for a $200K a year pay day must happen first. Once that occurs, then a reorganization will happen in one of two ways.

1) The first way is organized and amicable. Most of the two groups get together after more or less reaching the decision on their own that the travel costs of a cross country conference are no longer worth it. They decide to get together, suspend entry/exit fees--and see who wants to be with who. With this set up---you can jump--you can stay. Its up to you---but the goal would be to cut costs and create a pair of travel friendly conferences where nobody gets left out an everyone is reasonably happy. This is really the best solution---because if it doesn't happen--eventually---method #2 below will be employed.

2) The schools that want to form a new geographic conference will break off and form a new conference. When that happens, only the schools THEY want will be invited and those they don't want will be left behind,(regardless of the geography) to fend for themselves. This could result in teams being isolated, stuck in conferences where they don't fit, or left out of a conference all together. This is why it kinda behooves teams to not be a pain in the butt to work with and to push for solution #1 earlier rather than later. Later might be too late.

(03-29-2017 05:32 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(03-29-2017 10:55 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(03-18-2017 08:48 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  This 14 member behemoth just seems to be too big and unwieldily and sent delivering the kind of tv contract the old line up did. I think it's time to consider splitting the east and west apart and having each side pick up 3 additional members to create two 10 member leagues.

Possible additions
WEST: UL Lafayette, Arkansas St, Texas St (others include NMSU and S Alabama)
EAST: James Madison, Georgia St, Georgia Southern, App St, S Alabama

i don't think the current continuity rules would prohibit both sides from autobids.

Ok...Lets go through this.

1) CUSA cannot split into two conferences and have both conferences retain bids without waivers.
2) Any split must be approved by a 2/3rds majority of all CUSA members. Basically everyone must be happy. This is the bigger problem. How do you split it up? Remember the rules. UAB wants to stay with USM. La Tech wants to stay with USM. MTSU and WKU need to stay together. Marshall needs to stay with at least one Florida school and both Florida schools need to stay together. So you'd get the following best case scenario for a split.

MTSU, WKU, Marshall, UNCC ODU, FIU, FAU. and UAB, Rice, LTU, UTEP, UTSA, UNT, and USM. I suppose its possible, but MTSU and WKU recruit the West and USM might not like it either.

And then who would join either of those conferences? James Madison? Maybe. Texas State? Maybe. Beyond that, I'm not seeing a whole lot of interest. There'd be no more money in it.

And then there's the problem that the two new conferences would be a LOT more at risk than they are together. What does the "East" conference look like if WKU and MTSU try to return to the Belt. What happens if USM or Rice get called to the AAC?

Well---it only happens when its beneficial for most teams. The realization that its no longer worth flying across the country for a $200K a year pay day must happen first. Once that occurs, then a reorganization will happen in one of two ways.

1) The first way is organized and amicable. Most of the two groups get together after more or less reaching the decision on their own that the travel costs of a cross country conference are no longer worth it. They decide to get together, suspend entry/exit fees--and see who wants to be with who. With this set up---you can jump--you can stay. Its up to you---but the goal would be to cut costs and create a pair of travel friendly conferences where nobody gets left out an everyone is reasonably happy. This is really the best solution---because if it doesn't happen--eventually---method #2 below will be employed.

2) The schools that want to form a new geographic conference will break off and form a new conference. When that happens, only the schools THEY want will be invited and those they don't want will be left behind,(regardless of the geography) to fend for themselves. This could result in teams being isolated, stuck in conferences where they don't fit, or left out of a conference all together. This is why it kinda behooves teams to not be a pain in the butt to work with and to push for solution #1 earlier rather than later. Later might be too late.

You nailed it. I like this first "the realization that it's no longer worth flying across the country for 200k a year"--I think they've all pretty come to that realization. I think the problem is that certain schools insist that they won't ever play in the same conference as another team. The LT vs Monroe example was used. It's not going to work if schools from the same state refuse to play in the same conference as another fellow state school.

If CUSA wants to split from one to two conferences more power to them. The real question is will these 2 brand new conferences be seen as a step up to SunBelt schools. Present SunBelt members will not see these 2 new conferences in the same light as CUSA was seen 4/5 years ago.

(03-29-2017 06:47 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  You nailed it. I like this first "the realization that it's no longer worth flying across the country for 200k a year"--I think they've all pretty come to that realization. I think the problem is that certain schools insist that they won't ever play in the same conference as another team. The LT vs Monroe example was used. It's not going to work if schools from the same state refuse to play in the same conference as another fellow state school.

IT's not about flying across the country, or a million or two in TV money. It's all about the snobbery, or if you will the desire to align with similar institutions. Or we'd be talking about throwing the AAC into the same meatgrinder as the rest of lower FBS, and talking about realigning the FCS and nonfootball northeastern schools with overlapping footprints.

It would be great if the Sunbelt and C-USA could all sit down at a table and decide who goes where, swap the necessary schools and be done with it. It just seems like there are a few things that get in the way:

What do you do with UTA and UALR? No one in C-USA is going to want them. On way to get around them would be be for the C-USA schools moving to the Sunbelt to move 1st. The rest of the Sunbelt could outvote them and make it happen and then the schools who are going to C-USA then leave after the vote has been made. One all the C-USA schools get to the Sunbelt they amend the bylaws and require football--forcing the unwanted pair to the curb.

Could LA Tech ever learn to live in a conference with ULM? I don't have a good answer for this.

How would C-USA East feel about Coastal Carolina? I think some of those schools are going to view the Chanticleers as somewhat under qualified to be in their league especially since at least ODU and possibly others would have preferred JMU.

In all likelihood I think the more likely scenario is going to be a Denver Airport type meeting where a group of ringleaders get together, choose who else they want, and move forward.

(03-29-2017 02:21 PM)Cajunman02 Wrote:  

(03-29-2017 11:32 AM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(03-29-2017 11:32 AM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(03-29-2017 10:03 AM)HoustonCajun Wrote:  

(03-28-2017 11:54 AM)billybobby777 Wrote:  Yours looks good as well but you omitted Coastal Carolina of the Belch for NM St.

I included both Coastal and NMSU. The realignment as indicated has 12 teams in each conference, as an All Sports conference (left out UALR and UTA). I didn't include ULM for 2 reasons. ULM is the odd team out primarily because their budget ($12M) will not sustain them in the long run in FBS and LA Tech would not be in a conference with them (won't even play them in any sport).

I didn't realize LT won't play Monroe in any sport....

Looking at schedules from the current athletic year:
ULM @ LTU (WVB) 10/4/16
LTU @ ULM (WBB) 11/29/16
ULM @ LTU (BB) 3/28/17
LTU @ ULM (BB) 4/11/17
LTU @ ULM (SB) 4/12/17
ULM @ LTU (SB) 4/26/17

I could find more in the other minor sports, but that's what I've found so far.

Well, that blows the "LT won't play Monroe in any sport" comment out of the water!

(03-29-2017 07:44 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(03-29-2017 06:47 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  You nailed it. I like this first "the realization that it's no longer worth flying across the country for 200k a year"--I think they've all pretty come to that realization. I think the problem is that certain schools insist that they won't ever play in the same conference as another team. The LT vs Monroe example was used. It's not going to work if schools from the same state refuse to play in the same conference as another fellow state school.

IT's not about flying across the country, or a million or two in TV money. It's all about the snobbery, or if you will the desire to align with similar institutions. Or we'd be talking about throwing the AAC into the same meatgrinder as the rest of lower FBS, and talking about realigning the FCS and nonfootball northeastern schools with overlapping footprints.

I wouldn't go as far as to use your example with the "AAC thrown in with the rest of lower FBS". The AAC has options. Sun Belt and CUSA could "trade some teams" to make a tough situation better.

(03-29-2017 10:07 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  It would be great if the Sunbelt and C-USA could all sit down at a table and decide who goes where, swap the necessary schools and be done with it. It just seems like there are a few things that get in the way:

What do you do with UTA and UALR? No one in C-USA is going to want them. On way to get around them would be be for the C-USA schools moving to the Sunbelt to move 1st. The rest of the Sunbelt could outvote them and make it happen and then the schools who are going to C-USA then leave after the vote has been made. One all the C-USA schools get to the Sunbelt they amend the bylaws and require football--forcing the unwanted pair to the curb.

Could LA Tech ever learn to live in a conference with ULM? I don't have a good answer for this.

How would C-USA East feel about Coastal Carolina? I think some of those schools are going to view the Chanticleers as somewhat under qualified to be in their league especially since at least ODU and possibly others would have preferred JMU.

In all likelihood I think the more likely scenario is going to be a Denver Airport type meeting where a group of ringleaders get together, choose who else they want, and move forward.

Why not have CUSA and the MAC have an airport meeting. Why bring the Sun Belt into it.? Its as much the problem of the MAC as it is for the Belt that the powers that be over in CUSA-land botched realignment and created a mediocre, unwieldy, unstable, far flung mess of a conference that doesn't make sense. The Belt makes sense. So does the MAC.

Again, CUSA cannot split up without a 2/3rds vote. And without a waiver from the NCAA for the second new conference, they won't get 2/3rds. And there are plenty of conferences who would oppose such a waiver - given for the express purpose of raiding another conference, and would likely result in more call ups. Also the nBE precedent isn't as valid as one might initially think, because the winner of the nBE would be getting an at large anyway 90% of the time. So granting them a waiver didn't really take an at large from the field.

Without CUSA splitting up, raiding another conference - even the Sun Belt, might not be as valuable as you might think.

CUSA can't really pick and choose right now. They're full. And they're not going to start ejecting members into a 'no bid' conference.

The only way this happens is if a bunch of schools voluntarily leave CUSA and say "we're going to do this and we will do it even if we have to wait years for a NCAA bid'. And if they do that, they'll have an even less appealing product than they have now.

Maybe they could attract Texas State. For App, why leave the Belt so you get 1 more school within 350 miles but in return you get...no more money, worse bowl tie ins, the same or worse travel, no improvement in baseball, football, or basketball, and pay an exit fee to the Belt for the privilege? So they can play UNCC and ODU (App already had a series with ODU and has games scheduled in Charlotte). For App, such a move would be at best - lateral.

The deal is unlikely because the Belt doesn't have a problem. And I don't think App has one either. Also, I don't think anyone in the Belt has a problem with UALR or UTA either at this point. They contribute.

If the Belt makes a move first, it would probably be to ask two of MTSU, WKU, ODU, UAB, or USM to join. They probably would refuse, in which case the Belt is good to just sit at 10 teams and let CUSA be CUSA.

(03-29-2017 10:07 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  It would be great if the Sunbelt and C-USA could all sit down at a table and decide who goes where, swap the necessary schools and be done with it. It just seems like there are a few things that get in the way:

What do you do with UTA and UALR? No one in C-USA is going to want them. On way to get around them would be be for the C-USA schools moving to the Sunbelt to move 1st. The rest of the Sunbelt could outvote them and make it happen and then the schools who are going to C-USA then leave after the vote has been made. One all the C-USA schools get to the Sunbelt they amend the bylaws and require football--forcing the unwanted pair to the curb.

Could LA Tech ever learn to live in a conference with ULM? I don't have a good answer for this.

How would C-USA East feel about Coastal Carolina? I think some of those schools are going to view the Chanticleers as somewhat under qualified to be in their league especially since at least ODU and possibly others would have preferred JMU.

In all likelihood I think the more likely scenario is going to be a Denver Airport type meeting where a group of ringleaders get together, choose who else they want, and move forward.

It's funny---though the Bulldogs dislike the idea of sharing a conference with the Cajuns---I actually think that would be good for LaTech and ULL. Those fans literally hate each other. That's the kind of game that really does create value in a conference. It would be a true rivalry in no time. I'd love to know what drives that dislike. ULL feels disrespected I guess---but I have no idea why LaTech fans seem to have a special glittering dislike for the Cajuns. Anyway, im pretty sure if they were in a conference together---it wouldn't be long before that game was a "thing" in Louisiana.

(03-29-2017 11:20 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(03-29-2017 10:07 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  It would be great if the Sunbelt and C-USA could all sit down at a table and decide who goes where, swap the necessary schools and be done with it. It just seems like there are a few things that get in the way: ...

... The Belt makes sense. So does the MAC.
...
The deal is unlikely because the Belt doesn't have a problem.

Yup, that is one of the major things "getting in the way".

Another one is that, while in the abstract 12 is a better size for CUSA than 14, the benefit is not big enough to give much net benefit left over after the intrinsic costs of any realignment are taken into account.

So, yeah, one set of schools having basically no substantial reason to be interested in "swapping" each other like baseball trading cards, and the other set of schools having little substantial reason to be interested ... those are pretty big obstacles "getting in the way".

Which is why the "reshuffle CUSA and the SBC" topic always goes nowhere. This thread at least started with a different angle ... but once it was hashed out that "split the CUSA" is not workable because of the loss of the NCAA auto-bid and the CFP money for one of the two resulting conferences, it then devolved back into the endlessly recycled "swap the CUSA and SBC" discussion.

Quote: If the Belt makes a move first, it would probably be to ask two of MTSU, WKU, ODU, UAB, or USM to join. They probably would refuse, in which case the Belt is good to just sit at 10 teams and let CUSA be CUSA.

Now, to be fair, not every point has been endlessly rehashed. This is a fairly fresh angle.

Note how losing any pair of these would make either one or both CUSA divisions worse than it is at present. Which kind of underlines that the sense of the present alignment as being some kind of unworkable mess does not stand up when you zoom in from just the overall footprint and think about the individual divisions.

That fact seems like the inspiration to the original angle of this thread ... but in reality, points more toward standing pat pending the next big realignment, rather than pursuing the "split the CUSA" approach.

If CUSA wants to split into 2 new conferences there is nothing stopping them from doing so, all they have to do it just do it.

WEST

UTEP
UTSA
Rice
UNT
LaTech
Western Ky
Middle Tenn
NMSU

EAST

FAU
FIU
Charlotte
Marshall
ODU
UAB
Southern Miss
Liberty or JMU

Done.
CUSA has now been split.

(03-30-2017 07:09 AM)ValleyBoy Wrote:  If CUSA wants to split into 2 new conferences there is nothing stopping them from doing so, all they have to do it just do it.

WEST
......

EAST
.......

Done.
CUSA has now been split.

Fairly certain you haven't read the thread, but just for funsies, which side keeps the automatic bid to the NCAA tournament (s), and which side is out in the cold for 8 years?

(03-30-2017 07:47 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(03-30-2017 07:09 AM)ValleyBoy Wrote:  If CUSA wants to split into 2 new conferences there is nothing stopping them from doing so, all they have to do it just do it.

WEST
......

EAST
.......

Done.
CUSA has now been split.

Fairly certain you haven't read the thread, but just for funsies, which side keeps the automatic bid to the NCAA tournament (s), and which side is out in the cold for 8 years?

Oh I have been reading the thread. One side gets the automatic bid to the NCAA tournament and the other side gets the football playoff money.

(03-30-2017 04:56 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(03-29-2017 11:20 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  

(03-29-2017 10:07 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  It would be great if the Sunbelt and C-USA could all sit down at a table and decide who goes where, swap the necessary schools and be done with it. It just seems like there are a few things that get in the way: ...

... The Belt makes sense. So does the MAC.
...
The deal is unlikely because the Belt doesn't have a problem.

Yup, that is one of the major things "getting in the way".

Another one is that, while in the abstract 12 is a better size for CUSA than 14, the benefit is not big enough to give much net benefit left over after the intrinsic costs of any realignment are taken into account.

So, yeah, one set of schools having basically no substantial reason to be interested in "swapping" each other like baseball trading cards, and the other set of schools having little substantial reason to be interested ... those are pretty big obstacles "getting in the way".

Which is why the "reshuffle CUSA and the SBC" topic always goes nowhere. This thread at least started with a different angle ... but once it was hashed out that "split the CUSA" is not workable because of the loss of the NCAA auto-bid and the CFP money for one of the two resulting conferences, it then devolved back into the endlessly recycled "swap the CUSA and SBC" discussion.

Quote: If the Belt makes a move first, it would probably be to ask two of MTSU, WKU, ODU, UAB, or USM to join. They probably would refuse, in which case the Belt is good to just sit at 10 teams and let CUSA be CUSA.

Now, to be fair, not every point has been endlessly rehashed. This is a fairly fresh angle.

Note how losing any pair of these would make either one or both CUSA divisions worse than it is at present. Which kind of underlines that the sense of the present alignment as being some kind of unworkable mess does not stand up when you zoom in from just the overall footprint and think about the individual divisions.

That fact seems like the inspiration to the original angle of this thread ... but in reality, points more toward standing pat pending the next big realignment, rather than pursuing the "split the CUSA" approach.

I'll amplify your last point. CUSA also hasn't split up because there's no realistic scenario that makes sense for them to do so from an athletic perspective. CUSA can't lose any of their better programs and maintain even perceived 'separation' from the Belt.

I think they could lose the four Texas schools and still be just fine in that dept, Tom:

- LA Tech, S Miss, and UAB will still carry on thinking themselves better than any Ark, LA, Miss, or Ala Sun Belt program
- FIU/FAU will still carry on thinking themselves better than the Sun Belt
- MTSU and WKU will still carry on thinking themselves better than the Sun Belt
- Marshall will still carry on thinking itself better than the Sun Belt


Gives a somewhat tighter footprint, and a more compact 10 schools, still enough for a CCG.


UTEP and Rice to the MWC. UTSA and N Texas, perhaps back to Sun Belt.