(03-27-2017 09:03 PM)ken d Wrote:  Realignment wise, this does nothing for UNLV. They are so far down anybody's list, they aren't getting called up during the lifetimes of at least 90% of the posters on this site.

I'm not sure it does UNLV any good in any other aspect of athletics either.

My biggest question would be, at $650 million to build, how is this not a huge albatross around Las Vegas' neck? How many times a year would it get used?

Well thats it guys, shut it down. A UNC fan has spoken.

8 (possibly 9 soon) regular season NFL games, 6 UNLV games, a bowl game, possible Pac-12 CCG, the occasional Superbowl, concerts etc. I'm sure Vegas can figure out ways to use it.

(03-27-2017 09:10 PM)bluesox Wrote:  PAC 12 needs to move thier title game to Vegas. Also, the perfect spot for a PAC 18-20 title game if they landed big 12 members. I think the raiders take away from unlv football some though and defiantly from the NHL team, they might as well move. Las Vegas is to small of a market to have multiple pro teams

How? How does it take away? Most of the Raiders fans will still be coming from CA. NHL season runs a lot longer than the FB season. The NHL team is more for local fans while the Raiders are mostly going to be out of state fans.

(03-28-2017 08:58 AM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  

(03-27-2017 09:03 PM)ken d Wrote:  Realignment wise, this does nothing for UNLV. They are so far down anybody's list, they aren't getting called up during the lifetimes of at least 90% of the posters on this site.

I'm not sure it does UNLV any good in any other aspect of athletics either.

My biggest question would be, at $650 million to build, how is this not a huge albatross around Las Vegas' neck? How many times a year would it get used?

Well thats it guys, shut it down. A UNC fan has spoken.

8 (possibly 9 soon) regular season NFL games, 6 UNLV games, a bowl game, possible Pac-12 CCG, the occasional Superbowl, concerts etc. I'm sure Vegas can figure out ways to use it.

Not sure where the hostility is coming from. And, BTW, not everyone who lives in North Carolina is a UNC fan.

What you describe is about what I figured as far as usage (though I added preseason NFL games and an annual Pro Bowl in my reckoning). Still doesn't look like it pays (unless maybe you assume you are filling the stadium with mostly out-of-towners who wouldn't come to Vegas otherwise).

(03-28-2017 09:07 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(03-28-2017 08:58 AM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  

(03-27-2017 09:03 PM)ken d Wrote:  Realignment wise, this does nothing for UNLV. They are so far down anybody's list, they aren't getting called up during the lifetimes of at least 90% of the posters on this site.

I'm not sure it does UNLV any good in any other aspect of athletics either.

My biggest question would be, at $650 million to build, how is this not a huge albatross around Las Vegas' neck? How many times a year would it get used?

Well thats it guys, shut it down. A UNC fan has spoken.

8 (possibly 9 soon) regular season NFL games, 6 UNLV games, a bowl game, possible Pac-12 CCG, the occasional Superbowl, concerts etc. I'm sure Vegas can figure out ways to use it.

Not sure where the hostility is coming from. And, BTW, not everyone who lives in North Carolina is a UNC fan.

What you describe is about what I figured as far as usage (though I added preseason NFL games and an annual Pro Bowl in my reckoning). Still doesn't look like it pays (unless maybe you assume you are filling the stadium with mostly out-of-towners who wouldn't come to Vegas otherwise).

Maybe pretty much acting like were all nuts for even suggesting this help UNLV? Maybe that was it. Like we were talking about Buffalo to the B1G.

Thats about as much or more than most NFL stadiums. How do they get paid off? Naming rights alone should take a nice chunk off of that.

I think UNLV has three strikes right now.
1. The academics don't fit the Pac-12's perception of itself.
2. Basketball isn't the national powerhouse it once was.
3. Football isn't so strong that it has a strong national brand.

A whomping huge stadium doesn't fix any of those issues. Maybe the football staff could parlay playing in the megadome to improve football but until they do it, they haven't done it.

UNLV ticks off the right boxes in market size and geographic fit but they really have to get the research dollars up and have to get the incoming freshman profile up to scratch any itch the Pac-12 has.

(03-28-2017 09:26 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  I think UNLV has three strikes right now.
1. The academics don't fit the Pac-12's perception of itself.
2. Basketball isn't the national powerhouse it once was.
3. Football isn't so strong that it has a strong national brand.

A whomping huge stadium doesn't fix any of those issues. Maybe the football staff could parlay playing in the megadome to improve football but until they do it, they haven't done it.

UNLV ticks off the right boxes in market size and geographic fit but they really have to get the research dollars up and have to get the incoming freshman profile up to scratch any itch the Pac-12 has.

My favorite era of hoops were the days of those high flyin Runnin rebels of UNLV under Tark! Fun fun basketball during a time when college basketball was very respected and players were a household name. If UNLV wants to make a first step towards the big time, i would think it would be put their $ into hoops again. A winning top 10 UNLV is something that would catch fire as all of us have fond memories of that era

(03-28-2017 10:00 AM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(03-28-2017 09:26 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  I think UNLV has three strikes right now.
1. The academics don't fit the Pac-12's perception of itself.
2. Basketball isn't the national powerhouse it once was.
3. Football isn't so strong that it has a strong national brand.

A whomping huge stadium doesn't fix any of those issues. Maybe the football staff could parlay playing in the megadome to improve football but until they do it, they haven't done it.

UNLV ticks off the right boxes in market size and geographic fit but they really have to get the research dollars up and have to get the incoming freshman profile up to scratch any itch the Pac-12 has.

My favorite era of hoops were the days of those high flyin Runnin rebels of UNLV under Tark! Fun fun basketball during a time when college basketball was very respected and players were a household name. If UNLV wants to make a first step towards the big time, i would think it would be put their $ into hoops again. A winning top 10 UNLV is something that would catch fire as all of us have fond memories of that era

Personally, I think the NCAA wronged Tarkanian terribly. He was an excellent coach who played within the rules (and like most great coaches, knew how far he could stretch them). But I'm afraid that UNLV could never hire someone like him again. They (and the Raiders, IMO) will bend over backwards to avoid criticism from those who think the very city they live in is evil personified. It's not, of course, but that won't deter the blue noses.

The PAC already gets in footprint carriage rates for Vegas. The question should be whether or not this makes UNLV more attractive to the BigXII. This is an entirely new market for the BigXII and not so much of an academic problem.

(03-28-2017 09:26 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  I think UNLV has three strikes right now.
1. The academics don't fit the Pac-12's perception of itself.
2. Basketball isn't the national powerhouse it once was.
3. Football isn't so strong that it has a strong national brand.

A whomping huge stadium doesn't fix any of those issues. Maybe the football staff could parlay playing in the megadome to improve football but until they do it, they haven't done it.

UNLV ticks off the right boxes in market size and geographic fit but they really have to get the research dollars up and have to get the incoming freshman profile up to scratch any itch the Pac-12 has.

The new stadium should help with recruiting I would hope. Likely won't get them into the 12 PAC but if they win the MWC title because they are able to get better recruits they could get an AAC invite.

The AAC would be a step up for UNLV from the MWC

(03-28-2017 11:50 AM)jrj84105 Wrote:  The PAC already gets in footprint carriage rates for Vegas. The question should be whether or not this makes UNLV more attractive to the BigXII. This is an entirely new market for the BigXII and not so much of an academic problem.

But unless the Pac can get a desirable chunk of the Big XII the pickings are slim for expansion. If they can't get Texas, Tech or OU I don't see them clamoring for KSU, ISU or Baylor.

(03-28-2017 11:54 AM)Policiious Wrote:  The AAC would be a step up for UNLV from the MWC

I think they could have gotten an AAC invite already. In late 2012/early 2013 Boise and SDSU started wavering about the AAC, and then BYU and Air Force said weren't going to come, there were talks about UNLV and Fresno joining the AAC's "western wing" to appease Boise (and SDSU). They didn't bite on it. Its a weird move anyway. Like Memphis joining the MWC; doesn't make sense for either parties. IMHO.

I demand that UNLV and Memphis be conference mates. Lone program in their region, largest city in their respective states, crap academics, BBall>CFB, Elvis. They should be rivals.

Maybe the discussion should be that UNLV is now solidly in a "Best of the Rest". AAC taking Gonzaga and all legitimacy of the WCC might be enough to force BYU to the table.

West:
SDSU, Boise, UNLV, UNM, CSU, BYU, AFA.

East:
Houston, Memphis, UCONN, Cinci, USF, UCF, Navy.

8 game schedule (6 division, 2 cross division). Fixed cross division rivals: AFA-Navy, Memphis-UNLV.

With Lake Mead at historic lows and the Colorado River seriously over-subscribed, Las Vegas is a couple of heartbeats away from running out of water. No water, no glitz. No glitz, no town. The long term outlook for that contrived, over-developed, over-populated "oasis" is bleak.

(03-27-2017 05:03 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  If we were to go strictly by pure athletics and potential market value and ignored academics, then UNLV would be a prime candidate for the Pac-12. Alas, the Pac-12 definitely has baseline academic prestige requirements that UNLV does not currently meet.

Believe me - if UNLV were in the same tier as even the bottom schools academically in the P5, then they'd be in the Pac-12. The problem is that UNLV hasn't met that academic bar yet (and who knows if they ever will in the near future).

This.

UNLV has a 41% graduation rate (6-year). A 77% freshman retention rate. Only 8500 students applied as freshman for 2016 -- over 80% were accepted. Of the freshmen who enrolled, the average SAT was 1015. 7% of undergrads live on campus. Someone noted the lack of research above.

Academic profiles move at the speed of a glacier (and academic reputations lags profile improvement). It will take at least 10 years to show significant improvement from those numbers listed above. And that's only if UNLV has made changes to improve themselves. If they haven't, they'll stay in that range.

To put that into context, most P5 schools have graduation rates of at least 65% over 6 years. A handful (about 14) are below 65% range. Only Louisville, Texas Tech, Kansas St and West Va are below 60%. Nearly all P5 schools have average SATs in excess of 1100. Nearly all do at least $150M annually in research.

And unless playing in that new stadium takes UNLV football prowess to new, never-before seen heights, then as soon as the newness wears off it will be no different than Tulane playing in front of a few thousand at the mausoleum known as the Superdome.

Lots of good discussion!

As noted above, now would be a great time for Nevadians to "invest," big-time, in improving UNLV academically with strategic, highly-achievable goals and actions that would improve its rankings.

Winning more on the court, field, etc. would help too, of course.

(03-28-2017 03:52 PM)colohank Wrote:  With Lake Mead at historic lows and the Colorado River seriously over-subscribed, Las Vegas is a couple of heartbeats away from running out of water. No water, no glitz. No glitz, no town. The long term outlook for that contrived, over-developed, over-populated "oasis" is bleak.

I used to hear that about Phoenix as a kid in the 80's. They've tripled in size since then. I remember when I was in Greenville people telling me about how all these western cities were going to be gone because there was no water. I'd ask them about their experience out West to always get the reply "I've never been there" I won't speak for Vegas but most Western towns get tons of mountain snow in the winter which melts in the spring, flows down into the city and sustains them. (Denver, Albuquerque, Salt Lake, Tahoe)....Las Vegas has mountains too, maybe not like the Front Range, but doesn't that process happen there too? Maybe I'm wrong; I realize Vegas is a hellava lot hotter than Denver and Albuquerque, Salt Lake etc.

(03-28-2017 04:20 PM)CougarRed Wrote:  

(03-27-2017 05:03 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  If we were to go strictly by pure athletics and potential market value and ignored academics, then UNLV would be a prime candidate for the Pac-12. Alas, the Pac-12 definitely has baseline academic prestige requirements that UNLV does not currently meet.

Believe me - if UNLV were in the same tier as even the bottom schools academically in the P5, then they'd be in the Pac-12. The problem is that UNLV hasn't met that academic bar yet (and who knows if they ever will in the near future).

This.

UNLV has a 41% graduation rate (6-year). A 77% freshman retention rate. Only 8500 students applied as freshman for 2016 -- over 80% were accepted. Of the freshmen who enrolled, the average SAT was 1015. 7% of undergrads live on campus. Someone noted the lack of research above.

Academic profiles move at the speed of a glacier (and academic reputations lags profile improvement). It will take at least 10 years to show significant improvement from those numbers listed above. And that's only if UNLV has made changes to improve themselves. If they haven't, they'll stay in that range.

To put that into context, most P5 schools have graduation rates of at least 70% over 6 years. A handful (perhaps a dozen) are in the 60-70% range. Only Louisville is below 60%. Nearly all P5 schools have average SATs in excess of 1100. Nearly all do at least $150M annually in research.

And unless playing in that new stadium takes UNLV football prowess to new, never-before seen heights, then as soon as the newness wears off it will be no different than Tulane playing in front of a few thousand at the mausoleum known as the Superdome.

CougarRed, I agree with everything you say about UNLV. But you did say "academic profiles move at the speed of a glacier, reputations lag etc". Houston is now a R1 research school and has had its academic reputation rise dramatically in the past 10 years. Not sure your age, but you know how awful Houstons academic reputation was 20 years ago. People in Houston still say the "commuter college" stuff. "Coog high" is a message board thing obviously, but I'm just sayin, Coogs have moved up academically very very rapidly. Another great example is Louisville. 20 years ago it would be absurd to think they would ever be in the ACC. UNLV only has Nevada as competition...it's possible.

(03-27-2017 03:00 PM)PlayBall! Wrote:  Now that a big, fancy FB stadium will get built for the Raiders (very near to UNLV and the airport?), UNLV is a _sure bet_ for the PAC-12 or possibly the Big XII if UNLV has access to that stadium (and can/does have use of the new hockey facility just across The Strip to host UNLV's BB, etc.?)

A screaming deal for the first P5 conference to step up!

OK, wait...

According to SDSU fans, the Chargers LEAVING the San Diego market is a boon, since it frees up the market from football competition.

According to you, now the Raiders ENTERING the Las Vegas market is a boon for UNLV because it brings resources...

Which one is right? Wouldn't this be more akin to SDSU being relegated to second class citizen status in their own city and without their own stadium?

(03-28-2017 04:20 PM)CougarRed Wrote:  

(03-27-2017 05:03 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  If we were to go strictly by pure athletics and potential market value and ignored academics, then UNLV would be a prime candidate for the Pac-12. Alas, the Pac-12 definitely has baseline academic prestige requirements that UNLV does not currently meet.

Believe me - if UNLV were in the same tier as even the bottom schools academically in the P5, then they'd be in the Pac-12. The problem is that UNLV hasn't met that academic bar yet (and who knows if they ever will in the near future).

This.

UNLV has a 41% graduation rate (6-year). A 77% freshman retention rate. Only 8500 students applied as freshman for 2016 -- over 80% were accepted. Of the freshmen who enrolled, the average SAT was 1015. 7% of undergrads live on campus. Someone noted the lack of research above.

Academic profiles move at the speed of a glacier (and academic reputations lags profile improvement). It will take at least 10 years to show significant improvement from those numbers listed above. And that's only if UNLV has made changes to improve themselves. If they haven't, they'll stay in that range.

To put that into context, most P5 schools have graduation rates of at least 70% over 6 years. A handful (perhaps a dozen) are in the 60-70% range. Only Louisville is below 60%. Nearly all P5 schools have average SATs in excess of 1100. Nearly all do at least $150M annually in research.

And unless playing in that new stadium takes UNLV football prowess to new, never-before seen heights, then as soon as the newness wears off it will be no different than Tulane playing in front of a few thousand at the mausoleum known as the Superdome.

UNLV is the only 4 year university in Clark County/Southern Nevada which has more people than many states with multiple universities. It has a different mission in the students it serves and the flagship school is in Reno which is hundreds of miles away. Unless the Legislature in Carson City designates a new 4 year open enrollment public university in Las Vegas and gives priority in research and academics to UNLV over UNR, not much is going to change. UNLV is an interesting topic. It's in a growing TV market, it's in the top tourist destination in the country which is easy and cheap to get to, it's full of transplants who are indifferent to Rebel athletics, the football stadium is on the other side of town and its basketball won the NC a generation ago which is an eternity to kids these days. Of all the urban G5 schools, UNLV has the most challenges (probably SJSU has more) but it also has lots of potential. The Raiders will not help nor destroy the UNLV football program but the NBA would make a bigger impact to the basketball program.