Xavier, despite injuries (including the starting PG), beat second seeded and more talented Arizona. It was a remarkable coaching job by Chris Mack.

You have to have the kind of kids who want to be "coached-up" and not prima-donna's who blame others for their lack of results. Basketball is a team game.

That being said, This Tiger team simply didn't have enough depth, and that lack of depth was evident as the season trudged on.

(03-24-2017 07:37 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  You have to have the kind of kids who want to be "coached-up" and not prima-donna's who blame others for their lack of results. Basketball is a team game.

That being said, This Tiger team simply didn't have enough depth, and that lack of depth was evident as the season trudged on.

I agree with you, if you can create a program of 3* talent that is willing to play as a team and stay 4 years, you can be a VERY good team, but it takes 3-4 years to develop and depth.

our fanbase doesn't have the patience or appetite for that. By the way, was he coaching down when they went out in the 2nd round as a 2 seed last year?

(03-24-2017 07:37 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  You have to have the kind of kids who want to be "coached-up" and not prima-donna's who blame others for their lack of results. Basketball is a team game.

That being said, This Tiger team simply didn't have enough depth, and that lack of depth was evident as the season trudged on.

The lack of depth is mainly attributed to Tubby's inability to recruit players able and willing to provide sufficient productivity or inability to maximize their talent. Tubby has another opportunity to find better players for the upcoming season and I hope he does it.

(03-24-2017 08:36 AM)Oman Wrote:  

(03-24-2017 07:37 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  You have to have the kind of kids who want to be "coached-up" and not prima-donna's who blame others for their lack of results. Basketball is a team game.

That being said, This Tiger team simply didn't have enough depth, and that lack of depth was evident as the season trudged on.

I agree with you, if you can create a program of 3* talent that is willing to play as a team and stay 4 years, you can be a VERY good team, but it takes 3-4 years to develop and depth.

if you look at Xavier's roster is it dominated by 4* and 3* guys and some transfers who are role players. Memphis, on the other hand, has a 5* and a 4* whose father required a job for their services, and a 4* in Markel Crawford. After that, there is a severe drop off. By all accounts, thats a toxic mix.

We can be better than Xavier but Tubby is going to have to go outside of Memphis to get his players, and then ultimately compliment that team with a talented 5 star from the city. There is no quick fix and I hope Tubby has the drive and committment to get it done.

(03-24-2017 08:48 AM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(03-24-2017 07:37 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  You have to have the kind of kids who want to be "coached-up" and not prima-donna's who blame others for their lack of results. Basketball is a team game.

That being said, This Tiger team simply didn't have enough depth, and that lack of depth was evident as the season trudged on.

The lack of depth is mainly attributed to Tubby's inability to recruit players able and willing to provide sufficient productivity or inability to maximize their talent. Tubby has another opportunity to find better players for the upcoming season and I hope he does it.

No, the lack of depth is attributed to the prior staff and its inability to maintain a roster. Tubby was handed a _hit sandwich, which some of you are confusing with steak. The Lawson situation is obviously a difficult one and the idea of recruiting quality depth in late April and May is ridiculous. Josh left behind a cancerous situation for the new coach to inherit, and there weren't enough graduate transfers to remedy it.

Take heart, gang. There's blame enough to go around on this one. No single coach got us to this point.
1. Pastner collected players based on rankings, not position, by and large. That made for an odd roster.
2. The Lawson situation is what it is. Y'all know my thoughts on that one.
3. Tubby coulda/shoulda brought in more horses.
4. That became obvious when Kessee didn't pan out and Chad got injured.
5. It's now next year, and it's time for Tubby to get with it.

(03-24-2017 07:14 AM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  Xavier, despite injuries (including the starting PG), beat second seeded and more talented Arizona. It was a remarkable coaching job by Chris Mack.

You do realize the Xavier starting five consists of four 4* and a grad transfer?

While Mack has done a fantastic job and it seems Xavier has gotten over the loss (due to injury of another 4*) of their PG, it's not like Mack has cobbled together some group of castoffs to make a miraculous run.

They were preseason #7 and have had a top 20 and two top 30 recruiting classes in the past few years. Their 2017 class is ranked #10 as of now.

It's a lot easier to do the x's and o's when you have the jimmy's and joe's.

(03-24-2017 09:19 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(03-24-2017 07:14 AM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  Xavier, despite injuries (including the starting PG), beat second seeded and more talented Arizona. It was a remarkable coaching job by Chris Mack.

You do realize the Xavier starting five consists of four 4* and a grad transfer?

While Mack has done a fantastic job and it seems Xavier has gotten over the loss (due to injury of another 4*) of their PG, it's not like Mack has cobbled together some group of castoffs to make a miraculous run.

They had some big boys and some physical players.

And very skilled - saw guards and bigs using up and under post moves and terrific footwork...very well coached somewhere along the line - either in HS and/or at Xavier.

(03-24-2017 08:58 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  

(03-24-2017 08:48 AM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(03-24-2017 07:37 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  You have to have the kind of kids who want to be "coached-up" and not prima-donna's who blame others for their lack of results. Basketball is a team game.

That being said, This Tiger team simply didn't have enough depth, and that lack of depth was evident as the season trudged on.

The lack of depth is mainly attributed to Tubby's inability to recruit players able and willing to provide sufficient productivity or inability to maximize their talent. Tubby has another opportunity to find better players for the upcoming season and I hope he does it.

No, the lack of depth is attributed to the prior staff and its inability to maintain a roster. Tubby was handed a _hit sandwich, which some of you are confusing with steak. The Lawson situation is obviously a difficult one and the idea of recruiting quality depth in late April and May is ridiculous. Josh left behind a cancerous situation for the new coach to inherit, and there weren't enough graduate transfers to remedy it.

I think Tubby should have done better. A coach should always be recruiting to cover for transfers and injuries and to enhance the present roster.

In an attempt to compare the productivity of recruits/transfers under a newly hired coach, below are the average points per game for the new players as of 2/28/17.

1. Texas Tech - 23.2 PPG
2. Ga Tech - 23.1 PPG
3. OK St - 19.2 PPG
4. Memphis - 12.6 PPG
5. UCF - 5.9 PPG

I readily acknowledge the limitations of my research (e.g., judgmental sample, my errors, and only one metric - points per game). I welcome data supporting or detracting my belief that Tubby underachieved in recruiting this past season.

Regardless, the past is dead. The focus now to me is Tubby's 2017-18 class.

(03-24-2017 09:19 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(03-24-2017 07:14 AM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  Xavier, despite injuries (including the starting PG), beat second seeded and more talented Arizona. It was a remarkable coaching job by Chris Mack.

You do realize the Xavier starting five consists of four 4* and a grad transfer?

While Mack has done a fantastic job and it seems Xavier has gotten over the loss (due to injury of another 4*) of their PG, it's not like Mack has cobbled together some group of castoffs to make a miraculous run.

They were preseason #7 and have had a top 20 and two top 30 recruiting classes in the past few years. Their 2017 class is ranked #10 as of now.

It's a lot easier to do the x's and o's when you have the jimmy's and joe's.

Good point. I did not realize it. I think, however, that AZ has a more highly rated roster than Xavier (I could be wrong). Nevertheless, I agree with your post.

(03-24-2017 09:32 AM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(03-24-2017 09:19 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(03-24-2017 07:14 AM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  Xavier, despite injuries (including the starting PG), beat second seeded and more talented Arizona. It was a remarkable coaching job by Chris Mack.

You do realize the Xavier starting five consists of four 4* and a grad transfer?

While Mack has done a fantastic job and it seems Xavier has gotten over the loss (due to injury of another 4*) of their PG, it's not like Mack has cobbled together some group of castoffs to make a miraculous run.

They were preseason #7 and have had a top 20 and two top 30 recruiting classes in the past few years. Their 2017 class is ranked #10 as of now.

It's a lot easier to do the x's and o's when you have the jimmy's and joe's.

Good point. I did not realize it. I think, however, that AZ has a more highly rated roster than Xavier (I could be wrong). Nevertheless, I agree with your post.

You are correct.

And I agree that X still played great basketball and were crisp down the end. Well coached. Mack has been incredible there.

(03-24-2017 08:58 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  Tubby was handed a _hit sandwich, which some of you are confusing with steak.

He didn't have to take the job.

(03-24-2017 08:58 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  The Lawson situation is obviously a difficult one and the idea of recruiting quality depth in late April and May is ridiculous.

Yet, some say that is what the staff will do now, just wait and watch, give him time, etc. Same time period.

Xavier has gone to the S16 or better now seven times in the past 14 years. Essentially a S16 every other year.

Been in the NCAAt 15 of last 17 years.

They are a machine.

There was one game last night (can't remember which one now) where the refs stopped the game so long to review a play, I thought the announcers were gonna have a cow.

(03-24-2017 11:38 AM)snowtiger Wrote:  There was one game last night (can't remember which one now) where the refs stopped the game so long to review a play, I thought the announcers were gonna have a cow.

That was the West Virginia-Gonzaga game.

Chris Webber is an AWFUL announcer, btw.

(03-24-2017 09:38 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  Xavier has gone to the S16 or better now seven times in the past 14 years. Essentially a S16 every other year.

Been in the NCAAt 15 of last 17 years.

They are a machine.

There is no reason why we can't do that.

To have a team like that we need a coach who will foster hair-on-fire defense and a nevah-say-die attitude--even when the other team is touted as more talented.

I haven't seen that in our current coach, but it could be he just got discouraged by the mess he found here. It could be that his best coaching is yet to come.

Sean Miller just can't get to a Final Four.