(03-14-2017 03:09 AM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  Wiki agrees w/ me the CIAA and MEAC agreed w/ me

Only if your stance is that WSSU was never a member of NCAA DI.

That's a fact, that you can't hand-waive away.

(03-14-2017 08:54 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(03-14-2017 03:09 AM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  Wiki agrees w/ me the CIAA and MEAC agreed w/ me

Only if your stance is that WSSU was never a member of NCAA DI.

That's a fact, that you can't hand-waive away.

FYI Charleston made the 1994 tournament as a provisional member, they weren't allowed to play in the conference tournament and get an AQ b/c they were provisional. Also you didn't answer any of my questions because they all prove you wrong. You say sh*t but have no proof. I have the proof you always lack.

Provisional doesn't = NOT. That's a fact. WSSU playing in the D-I MEAC is a fact. NCAA and the MEAC counted their wins and losses as D-I wins/losses that's a fact. After the 1 exploratory year and 3 years of being D-I they decided it was better to go back to the CIAA. You can't go back unless you left, which they did.

Conference membership is irrelevant. WSSU was never a member of DI. Fact.

(03-14-2017 08:18 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Conference membership is irrelevant. WSSU was never a member of DI. Fact.

Wrong as usual. Fact

Compromise, they were never a full fledged D-I member.

Lets get back on topic, and stop arguing with others about Winston Salem State. They were D1 and enough said.

(03-14-2017 10:16 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  Wrong

You know as well as anyone that WSSU was never a member of DI, as they decided to turn back at the end of their exploratory period.

Pretty much makes you a liar.

(03-15-2017 03:03 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  they were never a full fledged D-I member.

Correct.

That's what I said.

And why his list is false to include them.

Getting this back on track, Chicago State's well is drying up.

Quote:The athletic department has suffered from state funding cuts. Lacking sufficient funding, the program operates on $5.6 million, according to The New York Times. Compared to the $9 million paid to Michigan football’s head coach Jim Harbaugh, this is hardly enough to cover costs. Many employees have had to rely on student fees, money from games and other non-state funds to pay their salaries, and head coaches may not even see a paycheck beyond this year.

Shut it down.

The MBB coach is also the school's interim president.

No joke.


It is time to end this farce. There may perhaps yet be some public benefit to keeping the south Chicago campus open to students, but athletics funding must be cut to zero.

(03-15-2017 10:47 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(03-14-2017 10:16 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  Wrong

You know as well as anyone that WSSU was never a member of DI, as they decided to turn back at the end of their exploratory period.

Pretty much makes you a liar.

(03-15-2017 03:03 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  they were never a full fledged D-I member.

Correct.

That's what I said.

And why his list is false to include them.

you don't even know the difference between exploratory and provisional. Their 1+4 back then, per NCAA rules, was the 1 exploratory year they completed before joining the MEAC for the next 3 years during their provisional period. Tell the 1994 C of C team they were not D-I when they got an at large bid as a provisional member of the TAAC(now A-Sun) UCF got the AQ for winning the tourney. I can't imagine a A-Sun school ever getting an at large now, and they did it while still in the process of moving up.

(03-15-2017 12:34 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  Getting this back on track, Chicago State's well is drying up.

Quote:The athletic department has suffered from state funding cuts. Lacking sufficient funding, the program operates on $5.6 million, according to The New York Times. Compared to the $9 million paid to Michigan football’s head coach Jim Harbaugh, this is hardly enough to cover costs. Many employees have had to rely on student fees, money from games and other non-state funds to pay their salaries, and head coaches may not even see a paycheck beyond this year.

Shut it down.

So they're done. GCU will be eligible for post season next yr. The WAC needs to find PWC, RMAC or GNAC schools to replace them. They'll be down to 8 and you always have to worry about Big Sky or Summit plucking one. SLC even if NMSU drops to FCS

(03-15-2017 05:16 PM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  Their 1+4 back then, per NCAA rules, was the 1 exploratory year they completed before joining the MEAC for the next 3 years during their provisional period.

Thank you for confirming what I have been saying all along is in fact correct: WSSU was never a member of DI.

They had their time to evaluate the possibility, and decided they did not want to become DI members.

(03-15-2017 05:59 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(03-15-2017 05:16 PM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  Their 1+4 back then, per NCAA rules, was the 1 exploratory year they completed before joining the MEAC for the next 3 years during their provisional period.

Thank you for confirming what I have been saying all along is in fact correct: WSSU was never a member of DI.

They had their time to evaluate the possibility, and decided they did not want to become DI members.

Provisional is still D-I, exploratory isn't, you don't even know what the difference is. Argue w/ me forever I'm never EVER changing my stance since it's the NCAA's stance. Keep your alternative facts and answer the questions I presented to you. You can't because all of them involve you answering with the Answer D-I.

"Reclassifying Teams in Rating Percentage Index (RPI) and Statistics
An institution that is changing divisions goes through a multi-year process to enter another division. The process is the same whether
the school is moving up or down in divisions. The first year of this process is called an “exploratory year”. If moving to Division I, the
second year after the exploratory year the institution must be playing a Division I schedule and will be included in the RPI. An
institution that arranges a Division I schedule the year following its exploratory year could be included in the RPI if it notifies the
NCAA by September 15."

(03-16-2017 03:46 AM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  Provisional is still D-I

Provisional is not a member of DI, per the NCAA's rules.

(03-16-2017 03:46 AM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  "Reclassifying Teams in Rating Percentage Index (RPI) and Statistics

Being included in RPI and statistics does not make you a member of DI, per the NCAA's rules.

(03-16-2017 03:46 AM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  If moving to Division I

Right -- "if moving to" means "not there yet".

It's Fresno St Alum's list of a dozen or so schools since '85. He can define it however the hell he wants. No need to split hairs for 4 pages. He is not submitting it to the NCAA.

You are exactly correct.

AND, he never needed to reply to me, a single time. He's choosing to engage this conversation.

(03-15-2017 12:34 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  Getting this back on track, Chicago State's well is drying up.

Quote:The athletic department has suffered from state funding cuts. Lacking sufficient funding, the program operates on $5.6 million, according to The New York Times. Compared to the $9 million paid to Michigan football’s head coach Jim Harbaugh, this is hardly enough to cover costs. Many employees have had to rely on student fees, money from games and other non-state funds to pay their salaries, and head coaches may not even see a paycheck beyond this year.

Shut it down.

Actually the NYT article had some additional background, where apparently WAC and Chicago State people, not quoted, said the actual budget was closer to $2.8m. WAC's Hurd also when asked would not say the WAC will keep Chicago State (their contract with the WAC expires after 2017-18). I am 99% sure they are not going to get any renewal. The writing is on the wall, as they are not in compliance with the league contract, and they were not asked to participate in any way with the recruitment of Cal Baptist (UTRGV was, indicating they have successfully transition from contract to full member). Further it would be extremely unusual for a contract to be renewed in the final lame duck year, and no renewal has occurred this year. Projections for fall enrollment are approximately 3000, a decline of 18% or more again for the 3rd straight year (applications are 2,600 to date, yield is typically 10%, which projects lower than the 296 students they got this last fall). The undergraduate enrollment could dip below 2,000 this fall. That might be OK for a high end private school, but for a public to spend the requisite $6m on Athletics to be in D1 (and as called for in the WAC contract) would require a $3,000 subsidy per undergraduate student -- CSU has no athletic fee, all athletics are paid through transfer of tuition. That is an absurd amount of money to transfer.

So yes they should shut it down. They wont have a conference anyway come 2018-19 (Cal Baptist will replace them). The only question is will they have a program at all in fall? Or do they honor the WAC contract and play out another year?

I think the WAC should ask the NCAA for a waiver to call up D2 schools in places while they drop Chicago State.

Azusa Pacific
Western Washington
Dixie State
Colorado Mesa
Drury
West Texas A&M
Tarleton State
Northwest Nazarene
Metro State
Colorado State-Pueblo
Cal.-San Diego

All could be partner up with the schools already in the WAC.

Western Washington/Seattle
Dixie State/Utah Valley
West Texas A&M/New Mexico State
Colorado Mesa/Northwest Nazarene
Metro State/Colorado State Pueblo
Cal. Baptist/Bakersfield State
Azusa Pacific/Cal.-San Diego
Grand Canyon U./Dixie State/Utah Valley
Drury/UMKC
UTRGV/Tarleton State

WAC then could start football again. A couple of schools could be FBS ready in a few years Like Azusa Pacific, West Texas A&M and Tarleton State. Dixie State have been getting donations to upgrade their stadium, and they could even get more to be FBS compliant.

(03-16-2017 11:42 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  You are exactly correct.

AND, he never needed to reply to me, a single time. He's choosing to engage this conversation.

You are choosing to run your mouth about my list and won't give it up. You refuse to answer anyone of my questions because they all prove you wrong. I sent you fact after fact of current and former provisional members even a provisional member that played in the NCAA D-I tourney that wasn't allowed to play in their conference tourney. So did Wake beat C of C in the D-II tourney or the D-I tourney in 1994? Hmm so you play in the D-I tourney and play in a D-I conference yet you say they don't count. Your twist of the NCAA rules still makes you WRONG WRONG WRONG.

Don't act like this is on me you never STFU about anything w/ anyone and I will relentlessly post until you give it up or this gets locked or we get banned. I choose to stand up to your BS!

(03-16-2017 03:09 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  Actually the NYT article had some additional background, where apparently WAC and Chicago State people, not quoted, said the actual budget was closer to $2.8m. WAC's Hurd also when asked would not say the WAC will keep Chicago State (their contract with the WAC expires after 2017-18). I am 99% sure they are not going to get any renewal. The writing is on the wall, as they are not in compliance with the league contract, and they were not asked to participate in any way with the recruitment of Cal Baptist (UTRGV was, indicating they have successfully transition from contract to full member). Further it would be extremely unusual for a contract to be renewed in the final lame duck year, and no renewal has occurred this year. Projections for fall enrollment are approximately 3000, a decline of 18% or more again for the 3rd straight year (applications are 2,600 to date, yield is typically 10%, which projects lower than the 296 students they got this last fall). The undergraduate enrollment could dip below 2,000 this fall. That might be OK for a high end private school, but for a public to spend the requisite $6m on Athletics to be in D1 (and as called for in the WAC contract) would require a $3,000 subsidy per undergraduate student -- CSU has no athletic fee, all athletics are paid through transfer of tuition. That is an absurd amount of money to transfer.

So yes they should shut it down. They wont have a conference anyway come 2018-19 (Cal Baptist will replace them). The only question is will they have a program at all in fall? Or do they honor the WAC contract and play out another year?

Oh, I'm not surprised by things being so bad there in Chicago. In another thread, I posted a link to minutes from a board meeting where the school hinted at the same issues. Their contract is up next year. They are out of compliance. They are studying their options. They are not doing well with money.

Everything points to the WAC saying: "Finish out the contract. Nice knowing you. Good bye." And, really, I think Chicago State and the conference are in deeper crap if CSU can't finish out its final year. Folks will go after both for damages, and then the WAC will go after CSU.

I couldn't buy into the hype that the WAC was suddenly becoming stronger as a conference during that "hey, football will rise us up from the grave" thing some time back. Think about the conference merely doing business with Chicago State AND Grand Canyon. Talk about a gasp away from the grave...