UC's Cronin: NCAA seeding all about money
Tom Groeschen , tgroeschen@enquirer.com 4:23 p.m. ET March 2, 2017


The University of Cincinnati entered Thursday night’s 2016-17 home basketball finale against Houston as a projected No. 5 NCAA Tournament seed, according to most forecasts. UC coach Mick Cronin said the pairings, in the end, are all about money.

“You may get moved a seed line if, and it may not be us, but teams could get moved around from a 4 to a 5, or an 8-9 out of that to a 7-10, to get that pod to sell more tickets," Cronin said. "Now, nobody will admit that because it’s all about the student-athlete, supposedly.”

No. 18-ranked UC entered Thursday with a 25-4 overall record, 14-2 in the American Athletic Conference. Houston entered 20-8 overall and 11-5 in the AAC. UC entered the game at No. 14 in the NCAA RPI (Ratings Percentage Index), partially because its conference generally is not rated among the top six nationally. For example, the Pomeroy College Basketball Ratings (Kenpom.com) list UC at No. 96 in strength of schedule.

Among major bracketologists, CBS Sports’ Jerry Palm has UC listed the highest, projected as a No. 4 seed. Joe Lunardi of ESPN and Shelby Mast of USA Today both see UC as a No. 5 seed. The BracketMatrix.com, a compilation of multiple forecasters, lists UC as a probable No. 5 seed.

How much does attention does Cronin pay to all of that?

“Zero,” Cronin said. “It just doesn’t matter.”

Cronin then offered an example of what he believes are sometimes incorrect seedings.

“My first year at Murray State (2003-04 season), we were a 12 seed. We played Illinois, a 5. In the same pod, Cincinnati was a 4 and played East Tennessee State. It was probably coach (Bob) Huggins’ worst (UC) NCAA Tournament team. They were in disarray late in the year. They had guys suspended, guys injured. East Tennessee State lost (to UC) at the buzzer (80-77). We played Illinois a very tough game (72-53 loss), and then they blew UC out (92-68).

“Illinois had multiple NBA players. Deron Williams was their best player. They were clearly the better team, talent-wise. It wasn’t even close. They were a 5 and Cincinnati was a 4, so you just don’t know. It’s the luck of the draw. I’m a firm believer that the NCAA Tournament committee, and everything is so financially driven, that no matter what is said on that (Selection) Sunday, they’re trying to sell tickets.”

Cronin said it is not just basketball that he is talking about. The AAC has 11 full-time members spread across nine states, from Connecticut to Texas to Florida to Oklahoma. Add in AAC football-only school Navy, and it jumps to 12 schools in 10 states.

“It’s a business,” Cronin said. “If it wasn’t a business we’d be able to have a bus trip in the conference we play in. And that goes for our women’s soccer team and our men’s team. We don’t have a bus trip, so don’t tell me it’s not all about money. That’s why you could throw all that stuff out.

“That’s a fact for everybody. It’s just business. You could move up, but you could end up playing a tougher team because the seeds are wrong. You ought to just worry about coaching your team. The rest of it is a waste of time.”

LAST ONE: Thursday marked the final UC game in Fifth Third Arena before the building undergoes an $87 million renovation. UC will play home games next season at Northern Kentucky University's BB&T Arena, then return to Fifth Third for the 2018-19 season. Construction is to begin in April.

“For me it all goes back to Bob Huggins, and the Steve Sanders shot,” Cronin said.

Sanders hit a game-winning 3-point shot at the buzzer in the first regular season game at Fifth Third (then named Shoemaker Center) on Nov. 25, 1989, for a 66-64 upset of No. 20-ranked Minnesota. It also was Huggins’ first game as UC coach, and he went on to lead UC to 14 NCAA Tournament appearances. The highlight was a 1992 Final Four berth, when UC was led by forward Herb Jones.

“Herb Jones being the key guy that turned everything around, and obviously the Final Four run,” Cronin said. “It all kick-started the resurgence of the program. That being said, I’m glad it’s the last game in Fifth Third Arena. I’m excited about the arena project, and it’s much needed. The guys that have done so much to get our program where it’s at should be proud that we’re getting a new arena.”

UC senior guard Troy Caupain said the goal was to go unbeaten at Fifth Third this season, with UC entering Thursday with a 17-0 home record in 2016-17.

“Just to go out with a bang, to end it the correct way,” Caupain said. “For the teams that played in Fifth Third 10 years ago, 15 years ago, we want to come out and leave it all on the floor. Blood, sweat and tears, have the crowd into it, keep the crowd into it. And then, knock on wood, come out victorious.”

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/c.../98650570/

Sometimes Mick says some dumb stuff. He acts like he has nothing to do with it being "all about money."

(03-02-2017 06:31 PM)Billy_Bearcat Wrote:  Sometimes Mick says some dumb stuff. He acts like he has nothing to do with it being "all about money."

You try travelling every where to recruit high school kids, then develop and graduate said kids, while also keeping them out of trouble, and most importantly winning a lot of games while keeping admins, boosters, and fans happy.

His little UNLV stunt was to ensure money was put up to get 5/3rd renovated ASAP so he can continue to recruit against the big dogs while competing in the ******, American Athletic Conference that UC has been relegated to because of the shameless cash grab by the power conferences.

Mick is justly compensated.

(03-02-2017 09:09 PM)DownOnRohs Wrote:  

(03-02-2017 06:31 PM)Billy_Bearcat Wrote:  Sometimes Mick says some dumb stuff. He acts like he has nothing to do with it being "all about money."

You try travelling every where to recruit high school kids, then develop and graduate said kids, while also keeping them out of trouble, and most importantly winning a lot of games while keeping admins, boosters, and fans happy.

His little UNLV stunt was to ensure money was put up to get 5/3rd renovated ASAP so he can continue to recruit against the big dogs while competing in the ******, American Athletic Conference that UC has been relegated to because of the shameless cash grab by the power conferences.

Mick is justly compensated.

A lot of people in this country do really hard jobs and won't make in a lifetime what Mick makes in a year. I'm not a Mick hater and don't think his salary is unwarranted. My point is he sounds ignorant when he gripes about an industry, that allows him to make a boat load of money, being all about the money.

(03-02-2017 10:36 PM)Billy_Bearcat Wrote:  

(03-02-2017 09:09 PM)DownOnRohs Wrote:  

(03-02-2017 06:31 PM)Billy_Bearcat Wrote:  Sometimes Mick says some dumb stuff. He acts like he has nothing to do with it being "all about money."

You try travelling every where to recruit high school kids, then develop and graduate said kids, while also keeping them out of trouble, and most importantly winning a lot of games while keeping admins, boosters, and fans happy.

His little UNLV stunt was to ensure money was put up to get 5/3rd renovated ASAP so he can continue to recruit against the big dogs while competing in the ******, American Athletic Conference that UC has been relegated to because of the shameless cash grab by the power conferences.

Mick is justly compensated.

A lot of people in this country do really hard jobs and won't make in a lifetime what Mick makes in a year. I'm not a Mick hater and don't think his salary is unwarranted. My point is he sounds ignorant when he gripes about an industry, that allows him to make a boat load of money, being all about the money.

Having listened to the interview that was pulled from, I didn't take it as him griping. He was asked about seeding and says he worries about coaching.

I agree with what he says. Too many made for TV games that just happen to randomly get made by the committee.

(03-02-2017 10:54 PM)BigDawg Wrote:  

(03-02-2017 10:36 PM)Billy_Bearcat Wrote:  

(03-02-2017 09:09 PM)DownOnRohs Wrote:  

(03-02-2017 06:31 PM)Billy_Bearcat Wrote:  Sometimes Mick says some dumb stuff. He acts like he has nothing to do with it being "all about money."

You try travelling every where to recruit high school kids, then develop and graduate said kids, while also keeping them out of trouble, and most importantly winning a lot of games while keeping admins, boosters, and fans happy.

His little UNLV stunt was to ensure money was put up to get 5/3rd renovated ASAP so he can continue to recruit against the big dogs while competing in the ******, American Athletic Conference that UC has been relegated to because of the shameless cash grab by the power conferences.

Mick is justly compensated.

A lot of people in this country do really hard jobs and won't make in a lifetime what Mick makes in a year. I'm not a Mick hater and don't think his salary is unwarranted. My point is he sounds ignorant when he gripes about an industry, that allows him to make a boat load of money, being all about the money.

Having listened to the interview that was pulled from, I didn't take it as him griping. He was asked about seeding and says he worries about coaching.

I agree with what he says. Too many made for TV games that just happen to randomly get made by the committee.

On THAT I am totally in agreement. I may have just read it wrong.

(03-02-2017 11:04 PM)Billy_Bearcat Wrote:  

(03-02-2017 10:54 PM)BigDawg Wrote:  Having listened to the interview that was pulled from, I didn't take it as him griping. He was asked about seeding and says he worries about coaching.

I agree with what he says. Too many made for TV games that just happen to randomly get made by the committee.

On THAT I am totally in agreement. I may have just read it wrong.

Whenever this topic comes up I think A) There's a lot of tourney games. Some fun matchups with interesting side stories are bound to happen. And B) Should the committee go out of its way to avoid those games? Wouldn't that be wrong also?

(03-02-2017 11:48 PM)BeerCat Wrote:  Whenever this topic comes up I think A) There's a lot of tourney games. Some fun matchups with interesting side stories are bound to happen. And B) Should the committee go out of its way to avoid those games? Wouldn't that be wrong also?

Exactly. What makes people think the NCAA is that competent?

Guys they have been doing it for years. They seem to put Duke and Kentucky in the same side year after year when they can.

I'm not sure that I like how viral this has gone with CBS and ESPN both picking up the article. But comments seem to support Mick. UK and IU last year is a perfect example of poor seeds to meet the 1st weekend. Hopefully this doesn't piss off the committee and they make an example of us and either drop our seed or force us to play a vastly under-seeded team just to stick it to the Cats. Oh wait, they already do this every year. :)

I think Mick is right about the selling tickets part. Of course they keep teams close to home for that reason. That is public knowledge I believe. And since teams like UK, UL, IU, MSU and UC etc are pretty geographically close then they'll play each other. But I seriously doubt that the NCAA has to worry about ratings that first weekend of the tournament.

The part that bothers me is that Mick feels he has right to ***** about anything. Every team in the tournament is good, that's the point, so you WILL play good teams no matter your seed. The committee is not perfect or there would be no reason to play the games, they could simple give the overall number 1 the trophy and not play at all.

As usual with Mick it boils down to JUST F***ING WIN!!!!

Sorry for the caps, but I'm already getting annoyed by an early exit from either post season tourney. If Mick doesn't realize by now that the solution to every problem with UC basketball is to win big now then he won't ever realize it.

Anyone who tells you life is fair is a fool or a liar. It's not fair. Of course the rich get breaks. Work hard to beat them.

One of the things I like about Mick -- and Huggins -- is the honesty.

I think what Mick is saying is that the NCAA always wants to talk about that the only thing they care about is what is best for "student-athletes". Anyone who knows anything about the NCAA realizes that just ain't true. The ONLY thing they care about is the money. To Hell with the kids.

BTW, how many years was UC tagged to play Temple in the NCAA? It absolutely had to do with the fact that game ended up with butts in the seats and eyeballs on the tube.

(03-03-2017 02:11 PM)QSECOFR Wrote:  BTW, how many years was UC tagged to play Temple in the NCAA? It absolutely had to do with the fact that game ended up with butts in the seats and eyeballs on the tube.

Three times but we won twice so it wasn't that terrible for us.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketb...s-seedings

NCAA responds to Mick....maybe they will get soft and put us in Indy ....probably not!!!

(03-03-2017 05:18 AM)grubs Wrote:  

(03-02-2017 11:48 PM)BeerCat Wrote:  Whenever this topic comes up I think A) There's a lot of tourney games. Some fun matchups with interesting side stories are bound to happen. And B) Should the committee go out of its way to avoid those games? Wouldn't that be wrong also?

Exactly. What makes people think the NCAA is that competent?

Yeah, I thought I was on Billy's side, but then he jumped ship. Of course the whole production is about money, but I don't think it's much of an issue for the committee. How's that work, do they just get a double wink when they are selected to serve on the committee? Is it brought up explicitly in the committee discussions or does everyone "just kinda of know" who's getting set up from year to year? I think Mick is giving the ability of the committee to conduct such a conspiracy way too much credit.

When you are seeding almost 70 teams, interesting match-ups are bound to occur naturally. Heck I"d challenge anyone to arrange a bracket that doesn't have interesting match-ups throughout it. And even if you could, wouldn't that be equally wrong as beercat suggests?

You just know we will be a 7 seed in the West regional.

His example of the 2004 team doesn't even make sense. UC was the higher ranked team, and they were not a mess. They won the CUSA tournament down at the Coliseum (Depaul's Lavar Seals got kicked out of the finals for punching Tony Bobbitt in the nuts). And Illinois was good, but Deron Williams and Dee Brown and those guys were just sophomores. UC got smoked, but that was not a seeding error.

(03-03-2017 03:23 PM)cincybb51 Wrote:  http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketb...s-seedings

NCAA responds to Mick....maybe they will get soft and put us in Indy ....probably not!!!

We will almost certainly be matched up with WVU in the second round

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

(03-03-2017 01:50 PM)BeerCat Wrote:  I think Mick is right about the selling tickets part. Of course they keep teams close to home for that reason. That is public knowledge I believe. And since teams like UK, UL, IU, MSU and UC etc are pretty geographically close then they'll play each other. But I seriously doubt that the NCAA has to worry about ratings that first weekend of the tournament.

The part that bothers me is that Mick feels he has right to ***** about anything. Every team in the tournament is good, that's the point, so you WILL play good teams no matter your seed. The committee is not perfect or there would be no reason to play the games, they could simple give the overall number 1 the trophy and not play at all.

As usual with Mick it boils down to JUST F***ING WIN!!!!

Sorry for the caps, but I'm already getting annoyed by an early exit from either post season tourney. If Mick doesn't realize by now that the solution to every problem with UC basketball is to win big now then he won't ever realize it.

Mick's got every right to respond to a question with an answer that's of his opinion.

Your diatribe is tired and misplaced. If you think he's whining or making excuses, it's a figment of your imagination. Either try to read the article objectively or watch the source interview. If you still come to the same conclusion, there's no hope for you.

If you don't realize by now that we're not a blue blood, you clearly won't ever realize it.