(02-14-2017 02:25 AM)pono Wrote:  Josh Lemons is the pg at Valdosta St a good D2 program with 4 or 5 D1 transfers. averages about 10/4/3 nd is holding the ball in the team photo.

I really liked Lemons. He was quick and loved to play defense. His stats don't tell the whole story.

(02-13-2017 07:46 PM)RocketJeff Wrote:  

(02-13-2017 05:54 PM)Terry Wrote:  

(02-13-2017 05:16 PM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  

(02-12-2017 04:49 PM)Terry Wrote:  [quote='RocketJeff' pid='14081850' dateline='1486852784']
When it comes to recruiting errors there was none bigger than Nichols passing on Ron Harper. I remember an interview Harper did about how he came to play for Miami and he said that he was all set to sign with Toledo but they backed off and made no contact with him the last few weeks before he signed.

I thought that was Eric Newsome whose dad was a professor at Toledo. Instead played with Harper at Miami.
[/quote

Manny Newsome was Dean of Student Affairs at UT.

I remember he had an important position on campus but went with "professor" because that was easier to explain......

At any rate, it was Harper because it was an interview in a national publication as I recall. As a result, quite a few fans started to encourage Nichols to retire.

Nichols backed off Newsome also.......

(02-14-2017 12:10 PM)Terry Wrote:  

(02-13-2017 07:46 PM)RocketJeff Wrote:  

(02-13-2017 05:54 PM)Terry Wrote:  

(02-13-2017 05:16 PM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  

(02-12-2017 04:49 PM)Terry Wrote:  [quote='RocketJeff' pid='14081850' dateline='1486852784']
When it comes to recruiting errors there was none bigger than Nichols passing on Ron Harper. I remember an interview Harper did about how he came to play for Miami and he said that he was all set to sign with Toledo but they backed off and made no contact with him the last few weeks before he signed.

I thought that was Eric Newsome whose dad was a professor at Toledo. Instead played with Harper at Miami.
[/quote

Manny Newsome was Dean of Student Affairs at UT.

I remember he had an important position on campus but went with "professor" because that was easier to explain......

At any rate, it was Harper because it was an interview in a national publication as I recall. As a result, quite a few fans started to encourage Nichols to retire.

Nichols backed off Newsome also.......

Bob Nichols backed off a lot of kids... The game started passing him by... UT in hiring Wade Houston(who wanted the job) instead of Jay Eck, would have put the Rocket program on the map...

(02-14-2017 01:47 PM)FMRocket Wrote:  

(02-14-2017 12:10 PM)Terry Wrote:  

(02-13-2017 07:46 PM)RocketJeff Wrote:  

(02-13-2017 05:54 PM)Terry Wrote:  

(02-13-2017 05:16 PM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  I thought that was Eric Newsome whose dad was a professor at Toledo. Instead played with Harper at Miami.
[/quote

Manny Newsome was Dean of Student Affairs at UT.

I remember he had an important position on campus but went with "professor" because that was easier to explain......

At any rate, it was Harper because it was an interview in a national publication as I recall. As a result, quite a few fans started to encourage Nichols to retire.

Nichols backed off Newsome also.......

Bob Nichols backed off a lot of kids... The game started passing him by... UT in hiring Wade Houston(who wanted the job) instead of Jay Eck, would have put the Rocket program on the map...

Kept the program on the map

(02-14-2017 01:47 PM)FMRocket Wrote:  

(02-14-2017 12:10 PM)Terry Wrote:  

(02-13-2017 07:46 PM)RocketJeff Wrote:  

(02-13-2017 05:54 PM)Terry Wrote:  

(02-13-2017 05:16 PM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  I thought that was Eric Newsome whose dad was a professor at Toledo. Instead played with Harper at Miami.
[/quote

Manny Newsome was Dean of Student Affairs at UT.

I remember he had an important position on campus but went with "professor" because that was easier to explain......

At any rate, it was Harper because it was an interview in a national publication as I recall. As a result, quite a few fans started to encourage Nichols to retire.

Nichols backed off Newsome also.......

Bob Nichols backed off a lot of kids... The game started passing him by... UT in hiring Wade Houston(who wanted the job) instead of Jay Eck, would have put the Rocket program on the map...

Quote:Houston's overall record at Tennessee was 65–90, for an average record of 13–18 over five seasons. In five years, he twice tied the all-time single-season record for losses at UT (22), including the school's all-time worst record of 5–22 in 1994, his final season.[2]

Which map?

(02-14-2017 04:45 PM)eastisbest Wrote:  

(02-14-2017 01:47 PM)FMRocket Wrote:  

(02-14-2017 12:10 PM)Terry Wrote:  

(02-13-2017 07:46 PM)RocketJeff Wrote:  

(02-13-2017 05:54 PM)Terry Wrote:  I remember he had an important position on campus but went with "professor" because that was easier to explain......

At any rate, it was Harper because it was an interview in a national publication as I recall. As a result, quite a few fans started to encourage Nichols to retire.

Nichols backed off Newsome also.......

Bob Nichols backed off a lot of kids... The game started passing him by... UT in hiring Wade Houston(who wanted the job) instead of Jay Eck, would have put the Rocket program on the map...

Quote:Houston's overall record at Tennessee was 65–90, for an average record of 13–18 over five seasons. In five years, he twice tied the all-time single-season record for losses at UT (22), including the school's all-time worst record of 5–22 in 1994, his final season.[2]

Which map?

Here's the deal on Houston. His son, Allen, was a high school All-American who would have ended up at UT. Same class as Jimmy Jackson. With Allen Houston in the fold, Jackson may have decided that home town UT was a real possibility for him since they knew each other well from all-star games.

I don't know how good Wade Houston would have been as a MAC coach, but with two first team high school All-Americans, college All-Americans and future NBA players it could have turned UT into destination for more players and completely changed the program.

(02-14-2017 05:39 PM)DetroitRocket Wrote:  

(02-14-2017 04:45 PM)eastisbest Wrote:  

(02-14-2017 01:47 PM)FMRocket Wrote:  Bob Nichols backed off a lot of kids... The game started passing him by... UT in hiring Wade Houston(who wanted the job) instead of Jay Eck, would have put the Rocket program on the map...

Quote:Houston's overall record at Tennessee was 65–90, for an average record of 13–18 over five seasons. In five years, he twice tied the all-time single-season record for losses at UT (22), including the school's all-time worst record of 5–22 in 1994, his final season.[2]

Which map?

Here's the deal on Houston. His son, Allen, was a high school All-American who would have ended up at UT. Same class as Jimmy Jackson. With Allen Houston in the fold, Jackson may have decided that home town UT was a real possibility for him since they knew each other well from all-star games.

I don't know how good Wade Houston would have been as a MAC coach, but with two first team high school All-Americans, college All-Americans and future NBA players it could have turned UT into destination for more players and completely changed the program.

I see the dots connected but I don't see them forming a line. He didn't even stay in the coaching biz (Eck did). Louisville didn't miss a beat without him. Tenn sucked even with Allen Houston. Jimmy Jackson didn't follow him to Tenn, instead staying "home" at OSU... so don't see why he'd stay in Toledo. He'd be the one to ask. But more likely, we'd ended up with a good basketball Dad but a sucky coach.

I guess no real way of knowing.

(02-14-2017 05:59 PM)eastisbest Wrote:  

(02-14-2017 05:39 PM)DetroitRocket Wrote:  

(02-14-2017 04:45 PM)eastisbest Wrote:  

(02-14-2017 01:47 PM)FMRocket Wrote:  Bob Nichols backed off a lot of kids... The game started passing him by... UT in hiring Wade Houston(who wanted the job) instead of Jay Eck, would have put the Rocket program on the map...

Quote:Houston's overall record at Tennessee was 65–90, for an average record of 13–18 over five seasons. In five years, he twice tied the all-time single-season record for losses at UT (22), including the school's all-time worst record of 5–22 in 1994, his final season.[2]

Which map?

Here's the deal on Houston. His son, Allen, was a high school All-American who would have ended up at UT. Same class as Jimmy Jackson. With Allen Houston in the fold, Jackson may have decided that home town UT was a real possibility for him since they knew each other well from all-star games.

I don't know how good Wade Houston would have been as a MAC coach, but with two first team high school All-Americans, college All-Americans and future NBA players it could have turned UT into destination for more players and completely changed the program.

I see the dots connected but I don't see them forming a line. He didn't even stay in the coaching biz (Eck did). Louisville didn't miss a beat without him. Tenn sucked even with Allen Houston. Jimmy Jackson didn't follow him to Tenn, instead staying "home" at OSU... so don't see why he'd stay in Toledo. He'd be the one to ask. But more likely, we'd ended up with a good basketball Dad but a sucky coach.

I guess no real way of knowing.

Wade Houston with son Allen, and possibly Jimmy Jackson in the fold, would have set the foundation for years to come. UT, then may have winded up in stature, basketball-wise, like the Cincys and Louisvilles of the world. But hey, Eck did give us crap shootin Tike Branch and 2 years of Tom Best...

(02-14-2017 06:13 PM)FMRocket Wrote:  Wade Houston with son Allen, and possibly Jimmy Jackson in the fold, would have set the foundation for years to come. UT, then may have winded up in stature, basketball-wise, like the Cincys and Louisvilles of the world. But hey, Eck did give us crap shootin Tike Branch and 2 years of Tom Best...

That would have been really, really nice right about now. Instead, our men's basketball program seems to be doing all the right things to make it 36 consecutive years without relevancy.

We chose Eck over Rick Majerus too. Ball State hire him the following year. I believe Huggins was a candidate too.

(02-14-2017 07:44 PM)RocketJeff Wrote:  We chose Eck over Rick Majerus too. Ball State hire him the following year. I believe Huggins was a candidate too.

I think Huggins was just speculation or he has no interest, I don't remember Majerus being mentioned I thought he went from Marquette to Ball State.

Some one bought a basket of hype on Eck. A lot of talking heads were in Eck's corner. That was not the best hire to say the least. We went for style over substance. Even with Nichols slipping at the time, we still could have gotten on track with a different hire. If I remember there was a slick talking assistant in the picture at the time who ended up a So Cal. Oh what could have been.

Ron Harper was never on Toledo's recruiting radar. Newsome and his father both despised Nichols and he never would've come here. Jimmy Jackson and his NBA buddy would've come here if we hired WHO?! Who went on to do WHAT? (Nothing) Did someone legalize recreational marijuana for use on this board?

On the other hand you're right about what a bad hire Eck was. Al McGuire got in John Savage's ear and we got four years of better-than-Cross but worse than everybody else coaching. Since Eck left we've usually been solid to good, but never ...

(02-14-2017 07:16 PM)inductchuck16 Wrote:  

(02-14-2017 06:13 PM)FMRocket Wrote:  Wade Houston with son Allen, and possibly Jimmy Jackson in the fold, would have set the foundation for years to come. UT, then may have winded up in stature, basketball-wise, like the Cincys and Louisvilles of the world. But hey, Eck did give us crap shootin Tike Branch and 2 years of Tom Best...

That would have been really, really nice right about now. Instead, our men's basketball program seems to be doing all the right things to make it 36 consecutive years without relevancy.

Getting a great recruit doesn't generally change a program for decades to come. Ohio had Gary Trent. Miami had Wally Sczerbiak and Ron Harper. Bowling Green had Antonio Daniels. After those guys left, Ohio, Miami and Bowling Green were still just regular old MAC schools, not national powers. The what-ifs in the Houston/Jackson scenario are a bit far-fetched. And even if they both had come here, that wouldn't make us a better team in 2017.

(02-15-2017 12:04 AM)Dwight Wrote:  

(02-14-2017 07:16 PM)inductchuck16 Wrote:  

(02-14-2017 06:13 PM)FMRocket Wrote:  Wade Houston with son Allen, and possibly Jimmy Jackson in the fold, would have set the foundation for years to come. UT, then may have winded up in stature, basketball-wise, like the Cincys and Louisvilles of the world. But hey, Eck did give us crap shootin Tike Branch and 2 years of Tom Best...

That would have been really, really nice right about now. Instead, our men's basketball program seems to be doing all the right things to make it 36 consecutive years without relevancy.

Getting a great recruit doesn't generally change a program for decades to come. Ohio had Gary Trent. Miami had Wally Sczerbiak and Ron Harper. Bowling Green had Antonio Daniels. After those guys left, Ohio, Miami and Bowling Green were still just regular old MAC schools, not national powers. The what-ifs in the Houston/Jackson scenario are a bit far-fetched. And even if they both had come here, that wouldn't make us a better team in 2017.

OK, I will retract my initial statement and have come to the assertion that having two Parade all-americans would have brought the UT program down to a sub par level. Back to the topic at hand, I"ll give TK a solid B in his recruiting. This incoming class brought it up a notch...

(02-14-2017 04:45 PM)eastisbest Wrote:  

(02-14-2017 01:47 PM)FMRocket Wrote:  

(02-14-2017 12:10 PM)Terry Wrote:  

(02-13-2017 07:46 PM)RocketJeff Wrote:  

(02-13-2017 05:54 PM)Terry Wrote:  I remember he had an important position on campus but went with "professor" because that was easier to explain......

At any rate, it was Harper because it was an interview in a national publication as I recall. As a result, quite a few fans started to encourage Nichols to retire.

Nichols backed off Newsome also.......

Bob Nichols backed off a lot of kids... The game started passing him by... UT in hiring Wade Houston(who wanted the job) instead of Jay Eck, would have put the Rocket program on the map...

Quote:Houston's overall record at Tennessee was 65–90, for an average record of 13–18 over five seasons. In five years, he twice tied the all-time single-season record for losses at UT (22), including the school's all-time worst record of 5–22 in 1994, his final season.[2]

Which map?

Nichols had us on the map with the tourney appearances and great players in the 60s 70s and early 80s. It came to an end by 84 or so. UT still had relevance as we drew large crowds. Eck ushered in an era of mediocrity at best.

(02-15-2017 08:32 AM)UT! Wrote:  

(02-14-2017 04:45 PM)eastisbest Wrote:  

(02-14-2017 01:47 PM)FMRocket Wrote:  

(02-14-2017 12:10 PM)Terry Wrote:  

(02-13-2017 07:46 PM)RocketJeff Wrote:  At any rate, it was Harper because it was an interview in a national publication as I recall. As a result, quite a few fans started to encourage Nichols to retire.

Nichols backed off Newsome also.......

Bob Nichols backed off a lot of kids... The game started passing him by... UT in hiring Wade Houston(who wanted the job) instead of Jay Eck, would have put the Rocket program on the map...

Quote:Houston's overall record at Tennessee was 65–90, for an average record of 13–18 over five seasons. In five years, he twice tied the all-time single-season record for losses at UT (22), including the school's all-time worst record of 5–22 in 1994, his final season.[2]

Which map?

Nichols had us on the map with the tourney appearances and great players in the 60s 70s and early 80s. It came to an end by 84 or so. UT still had relevance as we drew large crowds. Eck ushered in an era of mediocrity at best.

Eck took us to the the MACC game in his last year. The only time I was torn between hoping for a UT win and wanting to lose so we didn't have to keep Eck.

(02-15-2017 12:04 AM)Dwight Wrote:  

(02-14-2017 07:16 PM)inductchuck16 Wrote:  

(02-14-2017 06:13 PM)FMRocket Wrote:  Wade Houston with son Allen, and possibly Jimmy Jackson in the fold, would have set the foundation for years to come. UT, then may have winded up in stature, basketball-wise, like the Cincys and Louisvilles of the world. But hey, Eck did give us crap shootin Tike Branch and 2 years of Tom Best...

That would have been really, really nice right about now. Instead, our men's basketball program seems to be doing all the right things to make it 36 consecutive years without relevancy.

Getting a great recruit doesn't generally change a program for decades to come. Ohio had Gary Trent. Miami had Wally Sczerbiak and Ron Harper. Bowling Green had Antonio Daniels. After those guys left, Ohio, Miami and Bowling Green were still just regular old MAC schools, not national powers. The what-ifs in the Houston/Jackson scenario are a bit far-fetched. And even if they both had come here, that wouldn't make us a better team in 2017.

You are being very polite in saying that that scenario is "a bit far-fetched".

(02-15-2017 08:32 AM)UT! Wrote:  

(02-14-2017 04:45 PM)eastisbest Wrote:  

(02-14-2017 01:47 PM)FMRocket Wrote:  

(02-14-2017 12:10 PM)Terry Wrote:  

(02-13-2017 07:46 PM)RocketJeff Wrote:  At any rate, it was Harper because it was an interview in a national publication as I recall. As a result, quite a few fans started to encourage Nichols to retire.

Nichols backed off Newsome also.......

Bob Nichols backed off a lot of kids... The game started passing him by... UT in hiring Wade Houston(who wanted the job) instead of Jay Eck, would have put the Rocket program on the map...

Quote:Houston's overall record at Tennessee was 65–90, for an average record of 13–18 over five seasons. In five years, he twice tied the all-time single-season record for losses at UT (22), including the school's all-time worst record of 5–22 in 1994, his final season.[2]

Which map?

Nichols had us on the map with the tourney appearances and great players in the 60s 70s and early 80s. It came to an end by 84 or so. UT still had relevance as we drew large crowds. Eck ushered in an era of mediocrity at best.

If you look at the records and MAC finishes, Nicks's run of relevance ended after the '80-81 season. Didn't return until Stan started. The past ten seasons have gone from horrible to mediocre. Basketball at this level seems to be more about the talent you're putting on the floor than the impact of the coaching.

(02-15-2017 08:13 AM)FMRocket Wrote:  

(02-15-2017 12:04 AM)Dwight Wrote:  

(02-14-2017 07:16 PM)inductchuck16 Wrote:  

(02-14-2017 06:13 PM)FMRocket Wrote:  Wade Houston with son Allen, and possibly Jimmy Jackson in the fold, would have set the foundation for years to come. UT, then may have winded up in stature, basketball-wise, like the Cincys and Louisvilles of the world. But hey, Eck did give us crap shootin Tike Branch and 2 years of Tom Best...

That would have been really, really nice right about now. Instead, our men's basketball program seems to be doing all the right things to make it 36 consecutive years without relevancy.

Getting a great recruit doesn't generally change a program for decades to come. Ohio had Gary Trent. Miami had Wally Sczerbiak and Ron Harper. Bowling Green had Antonio Daniels. After those guys left, Ohio, Miami and Bowling Green were still just regular old MAC schools, not national powers. The what-ifs in the Houston/Jackson scenario are a bit far-fetched. And even if they both had come here, that wouldn't make us a better team in 2017.

OK, I will retract my initial statement and have come to the assertion that having two Parade all-americans would have brought the UT program down to a sub par level.

Fight back you coward. Don't give in to the masses!

UTLM!, UTLM!, UTLM!

Power to the peeps~!