http://www.objectobot.com/?p=929

Quote:Bernie Sanders for instance says this all the time. “The U.S. is the only major country on earth that doesn’t guarantee healthcare for all as a right.”

Healthcare of course is not a right, it is a commodity or a service. Take the right to free speech for instance. No one needs to produce free speech in order for you to have it, you simply have the right to free speech. Healthcare on the other hand, whether drugs, or hospitals, needs to be produced by doctors or other healthcare professionals. So healthcare is definitely not a right. So why does Bernie and others use this rhetoric when talking about healthcare, or other commodities or services that they desire? Lets think back to the right to free speech again. When you hear that the right to free speech is being denied somewhere, you automatically understand that some sort of injustice is being done. Bernie wants you to have the same emotional response when thinking about healthcare, if someone doesn’t have healthcare, that means that something unjust is being done, and you should feel bad or guilty. You see guilt is the leftists stock and trade, and the inducing of guilt is their only means of self perpetuation. If the public is not kept under a stream of demeaning accusations, we might look around and put an end of all this unnecessary self guilt.

However, if we drop the emotional rhetoric, what Bernie is really saying, is that the U.S. does not guarantee healthcare to everybody as a matter of law.

If FDR had his say it would be.

(02-10-2017 06:09 PM)john01992 Wrote:  If FDR had his say it would be.

Lets dust him off and ask him.

Seriously, there is nothing affordable about it. My health insurance company has revised it about 4 times since the law took effect. Paying nearly 300 dollars more than before the ACA. The only reason I stay with them is because they are attached to a hospital network that has the best facilities and doctors where I live.

Is it in the Constitution?

No, it is not.

End of story.

(02-10-2017 06:26 PM)HarmonOliphantOberlanderDevine Wrote:  Is it in the Constitution?

No, it is not.

End of story.

This. Pretty simple.

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It depends on how you look at rights, I guess. The federal constitution operates under the notion of negative rights, not positive ones.

No. You never have a right to another person's labor.

(02-10-2017 06:30 PM)Hood-rich Wrote:  

(02-10-2017 06:26 PM)HarmonOliphantOberlanderDevine Wrote:  Is it in the Constitution?

No, it is not.

End of story.

This. Pretty simple.

Not simple enough for liberals though...

Okay. Perhaps it's not a god given right.

But as the wealthiest nation in the history of mankind, I personally believe affordable healthcare should be available to all Americans. Some people just have the dumb luck to be born with some genetic problems that are very expensive to treat. I have never shared this in the Spin Room, but my older brother was racked with medical conditions all throughout his life. This culminated in him requiring a heart transplant in his early 30's. At that point in his life, he was working at a small company that manufactured conveyor belts and that did not provide health insurance for their employees. He had tons of preexisting conditions that prevented him from affordable healthcare.

As many of you folks can guess, heart transplants are not cheap.

So if someone is born with a condition of which they had no choosing, why are they denied the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness? The fact that we can afford to spend trillions on fighting wars in the Middle East, yet we can't afford to provide life saving medical treatments to our own is an issue I feel very passionately about.

(02-10-2017 07:31 PM)BobcatEngineer Wrote:  Okay. Perhaps it's not a god given right.

The rights which we are endowed by are creator are the only rights. Everything else is an entitlement.

Quote:But as the wealthiest nation in the history of mankind, I personally believe affordable healthcare should be available to all Americans.

Quote:So if someone is born with a condition of which they had no choosing, why are they denied the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness?

The problem I have with this logic is that it's a loop hole big enough to drive any program through.

(02-10-2017 07:31 PM)BobcatEngineer Wrote:  Okay. Perhaps it's not a god given right.

But as the wealthiest nation in the history of mankind, I personally believe affordable healthcare should be available to all Americans. Some people just have the dumb luck to be born with some genetic problems that are very expensive to treat. I have never shared this in the Spin Room, but my older brother was racked with medical conditions all throughout his life. This culminated in him requiring a heart transplant in his early 30's. At that point in his life, he was working at a small company that manufactured conveyor belts and that did not provide health insurance for their employees. He had tons of preexisting conditions that prevented him from affordable healthcare.

As many of you folks can guess, heart transplants are not cheap.

So if someone is born with a condition of which they had no choosing, why are they denied the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness? The fact that we can afford to spend trillions on fighting wars in the Middle East, yet we can't afford to provide life saving medical treatments to our own is an issue I feel very passionately about.

We can not afford to give billions to your pals in the Middle East (even though they hate us and want to kill us) and pay for health care for our people. Which do you prefer? Stop foreign aid and let all the world fend for themselves or give out free health care?

Nobody is denied the right to health care anymore than they're denied the right to a new Ferrari. I saw an uninsured patient today. They paid cash for their visit, just like if they'd gone to eat at a restaurant. No rights were violated.

You do not have a right to the services of others.

That's different than saying should we as a society supply it, which I think we should.

Ive been in healthcare for over 20 years and i have never seen or heard of anyone being denied healthcare.

Paying for the care they received is not healthcare. They received care..its just not free of charge.

Bernie, like all leftists, loves word games

Its really pretty simple.

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(02-10-2017 07:31 PM)BobcatEngineer Wrote:  Okay. Perhaps it's not a god given right.

But as the wealthiest nation in the history of mankind, I personally believe affordable healthcare should be available to all Americans. Some people just have the dumb luck to be born with some genetic problems that are very expensive to treat. I have never shared this in the Spin Room, but my older brother was racked with medical conditions all throughout his life. This culminated in him requiring a heart transplant in his early 30's. At that point in his life, he was working at a small company that manufactured conveyor belts and that did not provide health insurance for their employees. He had tons of preexisting conditions that prevented him from affordable healthcare.

As many of you folks can guess, heart transplants are not cheap.

So if someone is born with a condition of which they had no choosing, why are they denied the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness? The fact that we can afford to spend trillions on fighting wars in the Middle East, yet we can't afford to provide life saving medical treatments to our own is an issue I feel very passionately about.

I can provide affordable healthcare if you give me a perscription pad. I'd be willing to watch some You Tube videos and perform a heart transplant for $500. You can just pay me $50 per week for 10 weeks.

See the problem?

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(02-10-2017 08:08 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  You do not have a right to the services of others.

That's different than saying should we as a society supply it, which I think we should.

Yea, this. And for the most part we do. The problem is with trying to figure out who's gonna pay for it, and how do you do the most good, for the most people at lowest cost? This is where you get so many of the competing ideas.

What's for sure is a MASSIVE, one size fits all, top down approach from nameless faceless, unaccountable DeeCee bureaucrats is not the answer.

(02-10-2017 06:09 PM)john01992 Wrote:  If FDR had his say it would be.

He also would immediately end all government employee labor unions since it's a conflict of interest to be able to vote for your boss.

He also rounded up every Japanese and German American who could find and put them in interment camps.

He also threatened to add as many justices to the SCOTUS as necessary to get his way in the judiciary, effectively eliminating all checks and balances from that branch.

Got any other old morons who loved to abuse power and people you want to trot out?

(02-10-2017 08:12 PM)maximus Wrote:  Ive been in healthcare for over 20 years and i have never seen or heard of anyone being denied healthcare.

Paying for the care they received is not healthcare. They received care..its just not free of charge.

Bernie, like all leftists, loves word games

Its really pretty simple.

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Doctors will work with you if you ask them.

(02-10-2017 08:28 PM)solohawks Wrote:  

(02-10-2017 08:12 PM)maximus Wrote:  Ive been in healthcare for over 20 years and i have never seen or heard of anyone being denied healthcare.

Paying for the care they received is not healthcare. They received care..its just not free of charge.

Bernie, like all leftists, loves word games

Its really pretty simple.

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Doctors will work with you if you ask them.

Of course they will

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My take on it, access to healthcare should be a right, the healthcare itself is a service and should be treated as such. That said, something has to be done about the price gouging.