(02-08-2017 02:51 PM)UpperTiger Wrote:  

(02-08-2017 02:26 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(02-08-2017 01:51 PM)HoopDreams Wrote:  

(02-08-2017 01:46 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  Can you be seen as a failure in recruiting if your teams win at a high level?

I don't think anyone expects to get back to 2008, but I think most expect to be on par with Dayton or Gonzaga (this year being an exception) or Wichita State or similar.

Miller's Dayton, or historical Dayton?
Few's Gonzaga, or historical Gonzaga?
Marshall's Wichita, or historical Wichita?

I'm sure you mean the current versions of those programs - which happen to be the most successful in their histories.

You say no one expects 2008, but you compare to other G5's at the historical peaks.

2005-2008 is higher than the historical peak for any of those schools. So yes, its reasonable to expect to be at their level while not expecting 2008.

Mark Few has reached 0 final fours.
Gregg Marshall has made the NCAA 5 of 9 seasons, with 1 Final Four. Archie Miller has made the NCAA 3 of 6 seasons, with 1 Elite Eight.

The expectations for Memphis basketball compare favorably to the historical peak of most other G5/Mid Majors schools.

Exactly. Thanks.

You have the facilities, the corporate support, coaching salaries and the recruiting base to be one of the top G5 schools year in and year out.

It's that simple

I do believe recruiting is really the only thing he lacks. He will get some good players and make them better players. What he won't generally get are the top 25 guys. To me that helps you in 2 ways. One you usually get a good player. Two it creates some excitement and helps fill the stands if you know you have some really good players coming in for the next season. Helps next years season ticket sales as well.

(02-08-2017 03:17 PM)mairving Wrote:  I do believe recruiting is really the only thing he lacks. He will get some good players and make them better players. What he won't generally get are the top 25 guys. To me that helps you in 2 ways. One you usually get a good player. Two it creates some excitement and helps fill the stands if you know you have some really good players coming in for the next season. Helps next years season ticket sales as well.

They key for him being highly successful here with his lack of recruiting chops is the city producing high level prospects often and them remaining home.

(02-08-2017 02:26 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(02-08-2017 01:51 PM)HoopDreams Wrote:  

(02-08-2017 01:46 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  Can you be seen as a failure in recruiting if your teams win at a high level?

I don't think anyone expects to get back to 2008, but I think most expect to be on par with Dayton or Gonzaga (this year being an exception) or Wichita State or similar.

Miller's Dayton, or historical Dayton?
Few's Gonzaga, or historical Gonzaga?
Marshall's Wichita, or historical Wichita?

I'm sure you mean the current versions of those programs - which happen to be the most successful in their histories.

You say no one expects 2008, but you compare to other G5's at the historical peaks.

I agree with you. The criticism Tubby is receiving is unwarranted. Additionally, I wanted to bring to your attention that the "G5" label is strictly for football ... "there are a lot more NCAA Div 1 Men's B'Ball conferences than just five (5)."

(02-08-2017 04:04 PM)TonyTiger06 Wrote:  

(02-08-2017 02:26 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(02-08-2017 01:51 PM)HoopDreams Wrote:  

(02-08-2017 01:46 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  Can you be seen as a failure in recruiting if your teams win at a high level?

I don't think anyone expects to get back to 2008, but I think most expect to be on par with Dayton or Gonzaga (this year being an exception) or Wichita State or similar.

Miller's Dayton, or historical Dayton?
Few's Gonzaga, or historical Gonzaga?
Marshall's Wichita, or historical Wichita?

I'm sure you mean the current versions of those programs - which happen to be the most successful in their histories.

You say no one expects 2008, but you compare to other G5's at the historical peaks.

I agree with you. The criticism Tubby is receiving is unwarranted. Additionally, I wanted to bring to your attention that the "G5" label is strictly for football ... "there are a lot more NCAA Div 1 Men's B'Ball conferences than just five (5)."

What criticism is he receiving? In the media? Players? Who?

This thread is a massive stroke off to him, so it sure can't be here, either? Roar?

(02-08-2017 04:07 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(02-08-2017 04:04 PM)TonyTiger06 Wrote:  

(02-08-2017 02:26 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(02-08-2017 01:51 PM)HoopDreams Wrote:  

(02-08-2017 01:46 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  Can you be seen as a failure in recruiting if your teams win at a high level?

I don't think anyone expects to get back to 2008, but I think most expect to be on par with Dayton or Gonzaga (this year being an exception) or Wichita State or similar.

Miller's Dayton, or historical Dayton?
Few's Gonzaga, or historical Gonzaga?
Marshall's Wichita, or historical Wichita?

I'm sure you mean the current versions of those programs - which happen to be the most successful in their histories.

You say no one expects 2008, but you compare to other G5's at the historical peaks.

I agree with you. The criticism Tubby is receiving is unwarranted. Additionally, I wanted to bring to your attention that the "G5" label is strictly for football ... "there are a lot more NCAA Div 1 Men's B'Ball conferences than just five (5)."

What criticism is he receiving? In the media? Players? Who?

This thread is a massive stroke off to him, so it sure can't be here, either? Roar?

You didn't put on knee pads and immediately bow down the day he was hired...therefore, org poster logic dictates that as crushing, unfair criticism.

(02-08-2017 04:13 PM)HoopDreams Wrote:  

(02-08-2017 04:07 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(02-08-2017 04:04 PM)TonyTiger06 Wrote:  

(02-08-2017 02:26 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(02-08-2017 01:51 PM)HoopDreams Wrote:  I don't think anyone expects to get back to 2008, but I think most expect to be on par with Dayton or Gonzaga (this year being an exception) or Wichita State or similar.

Miller's Dayton, or historical Dayton?
Few's Gonzaga, or historical Gonzaga?
Marshall's Wichita, or historical Wichita?

I'm sure you mean the current versions of those programs - which happen to be the most successful in their histories.

You say no one expects 2008, but you compare to other G5's at the historical peaks.

I agree with you. The criticism Tubby is receiving is unwarranted. Additionally, I wanted to bring to your attention that the "G5" label is strictly for football ... "there are a lot more NCAA Div 1 Men's B'Ball conferences than just five (5)."

What criticism is he receiving? In the media? Players? Who?

This thread is a massive stroke off to him, so it sure can't be here, either? Roar?

You didn't put on knee pads and immediately bow down the day he was hired...therefore, org poster logic dictates that as crushing, unfair criticism.

So sweet sixteen then? I mean 11months and NO sweet sixteen, failure.

(02-08-2017 12:59 PM)HoopDreams Wrote:  

(02-08-2017 12:56 PM)BuccTiger Wrote:  Nah, if you can't turn it around in 9 months you just suck.

1 too old, he should be put down. Old people have nothing to offer society.
2 can't recruit these young guys, because he won't lie to them or pay them.
3 still young enough to play golf.

Terrible hire, death of the program.

People like to be told what they want to hear, even if it is a lie. They can't believe their lying eyes, especially if it doesn't fit their agenda.

Most people are idiots.

What made you think I was talking about you?

(02-08-2017 02:35 PM)HoopDreams Wrote:  

(02-08-2017 02:26 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(02-08-2017 01:51 PM)HoopDreams Wrote:  

(02-08-2017 01:46 PM)macgar32 Wrote:  Can you be seen as a failure in recruiting if your teams win at a high level?

I don't think anyone expects to get back to 2008, but I think most expect to be on par with Dayton or Gonzaga (this year being an exception) or Wichita State or similar.

Miller's Dayton, or historical Dayton?
Few's Gonzaga, or historical Gonzaga?
Marshall's Wichita, or historical Wichita?

I'm sure you mean the current versions of those programs - which happen to be the most successful in their histories.

You say no one expects 2008, but you compare to other G5's at the historical peaks.

Let me simplify - folks expect Memphis to be at the top of their league, especially as long as it's a G5 league AND they expect to routinely make the tournament and occasionally advance to the second weekend and/or beyond.

I can throw out VCU or St. Mary's or Butler or San Diego State or whatever you team you want...the NAME of the team wasn't important, amigo.

To put it at another angle - Memphis should NEVER be the Seton Hall or St. Bonaventure or the Air Force of the American Athletic Conference where basketball is concerned (again, feel free to pick a different school, not important to the main discussion).

Now, if you're going to argue with all of that, good for you.

Most aren't listening - THOSE are the expectations for most. Like it or not.

Well that's a bit different from your earlier post - at least how I took your earlier post. This makes much more sense.

Regardless, the thread was intended to state facts. The facts that I thought would set the record straight on the "Tubby hasn't gotten it done in 15 years" argument.

If you want affirmation of your opinion of local expectations, er, ok. Affirmation given.

I'm not sure who said Tubby hasn't gotten it done in 15 years, but okay.

(02-08-2017 04:07 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  This thread is a massive stroke off to him, so it sure can't be here, either? Roar?

Link?

What do you disagree with? I thought you loved to show facts. Is it just because it doesn't fit your narrative?

Just calm down. All I'm doing is showing that he always meets or exceeds expectations. So maybe he will here too.

(02-08-2017 04:13 PM)HoopDreams Wrote:  

(02-08-2017 04:07 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(02-08-2017 04:04 PM)TonyTiger06 Wrote:  

(02-08-2017 02:26 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(02-08-2017 01:51 PM)HoopDreams Wrote:  I don't think anyone expects to get back to 2008, but I think most expect to be on par with Dayton or Gonzaga (this year being an exception) or Wichita State or similar.

Miller's Dayton, or historical Dayton?
Few's Gonzaga, or historical Gonzaga?
Marshall's Wichita, or historical Wichita?

I'm sure you mean the current versions of those programs - which happen to be the most successful in their histories.

You say no one expects 2008, but you compare to other G5's at the historical peaks.

I agree with you. The criticism Tubby is receiving is unwarranted. Additionally, I wanted to bring to your attention that the "G5" label is strictly for football ... "there are a lot more NCAA Div 1 Men's B'Ball conferences than just five (5)."

What criticism is he receiving? In the media? Players? Who?

This thread is a massive stroke off to him, so it sure can't be here, either? Roar?

You didn't put on knee pads and immediately bow down the day he was hired...therefore, org poster logic dictates that as crushing, unfair criticism.

I have asked before but didn't get an answer. Who are the posters who act or conduct themselves this way,(the bow down kiss the ring the day he was hired)? I would love to know who these folks are. For I don't read every post in every thread, but I tried asking this before, however, no answer was provided. Maybe there are posters here like that, but I sure don't know who they are. If there are posters like this I must say that's ridiculous to think like that, but it's just ridiculous to only post criticism too.

(02-08-2017 04:07 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  What criticism is he receiving? In the media? Players? Who?

Tubby has received very little criticism overall. Most of the criticism that he has received has come from message board turds whining about his recruiting and calling him old and lazy.

(02-08-2017 05:15 PM)HoopDreams Wrote:  I'm not sure who said Tubby hasn't gotten it done in 15 years, but okay.

Well, there's PL for one explicitly this week. Politics make funny bed fellers for you.

Then there have been plenty of insinuations - if not outright claims. Some say he cares nothing about recruiting any more. Some say he's just cashing a check. One even has a golden parachute in his signature.

This is meant to show a benchmarked perspective and a bigger picture.

(02-08-2017 05:21 PM)3601 Wrote:  

(02-08-2017 04:07 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  What criticism is he receiving? In the media? Players? Who?

Tubby has received very little criticism overall. Most of the criticism that he has received has come from message board turds whining about his recruiting and calling him old and lazy.

Ouch

(02-08-2017 04:13 PM)HoopDreams Wrote:  

(02-08-2017 04:07 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(02-08-2017 04:04 PM)TonyTiger06 Wrote:  

(02-08-2017 02:26 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(02-08-2017 01:51 PM)HoopDreams Wrote:  I don't think anyone expects to get back to 2008, but I think most expect to be on par with Dayton or Gonzaga (this year being an exception) or Wichita State or similar.

Miller's Dayton, or historical Dayton?
Few's Gonzaga, or historical Gonzaga?
Marshall's Wichita, or historical Wichita?

I'm sure you mean the current versions of those programs - which happen to be the most successful in their histories.

You say no one expects 2008, but you compare to other G5's at the historical peaks.

I agree with you. The criticism Tubby is receiving is unwarranted. Additionally, I wanted to bring to your attention that the "G5" label is strictly for football ... "there are a lot more NCAA Div 1 Men's B'Ball conferences than just five (5)."

What criticism is he receiving? In the media? Players? Who?

This thread is a massive stroke off to him, so it sure can't be here, either? Roar?

You didn't put on knee pads and immediately bow down the day he was hired...therefore, org poster logic dictates that as crushing, unfair criticism.

See, that is where your perspective is skewed because...you wanted someone else in the job?

Fans get excited with coaching hires. They just do. I don't think there was any bowing down, just some excitement from some fans. Many were giddy just because of the circumstances.

But the reason you get put in the "criticism" category, is not because of what you didn't do. You didn't have to bow or even get excited. It's because of what you did - and still do.

(02-08-2017 05:21 PM)3601 Wrote:  

(02-08-2017 04:07 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  What criticism is he receiving? In the media? Players? Who?

Tubby has received very little criticism overall. Most of the criticism that he has received has come from message board turds whining about his recruiting and calling him old and lazy.

I'm not sure message board "criticism" really counts in the grand scheme of things.

Mostly because:

A) It's a message board.

B) It's a message board.

C) It's a message board.

All that should matter to fans who think ANY coach walks on water is that the media loves him and so do his bosses. The rest I don't see why they worry so much about it.

(02-08-2017 05:27 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(02-08-2017 04:13 PM)HoopDreams Wrote:  

(02-08-2017 04:07 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(02-08-2017 04:04 PM)TonyTiger06 Wrote:  

(02-08-2017 02:26 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  Miller's Dayton, or historical Dayton?
Few's Gonzaga, or historical Gonzaga?
Marshall's Wichita, or historical Wichita?

I'm sure you mean the current versions of those programs - which happen to be the most successful in their histories.

You say no one expects 2008, but you compare to other G5's at the historical peaks.

I agree with you. The criticism Tubby is receiving is unwarranted. Additionally, I wanted to bring to your attention that the "G5" label is strictly for football ... "there are a lot more NCAA Div 1 Men's B'Ball conferences than just five (5)."

What criticism is he receiving? In the media? Players? Who?

This thread is a massive stroke off to him, so it sure can't be here, either? Roar?

You didn't put on knee pads and immediately bow down the day he was hired...therefore, org poster logic dictates that as crushing, unfair criticism.

See, that is where your perspective is skewed because...you wanted someone else in the job?

Fans get excited with coaching hires. They just do. I don't think there was any bowing down, just some excitement from some fans. Many were giddy just because of the circumstances.

But the reason you get put in the "criticism" category, is not because of what you didn't do. You didn't have to bow or even get excited. It's because of what you did - and still do.

That's not really the point.

The point is, he ain't getting much criticism.

Seems some sensitive souls around here.

LOL

(02-08-2017 05:23 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  

(02-08-2017 05:15 PM)HoopDreams Wrote:  I'm not sure who said Tubby hasn't gotten it done in 15 years, but okay.

Well, there's PL for one explicitly this week. Politics make funny bed fellers for you.

Then there have been plenty of insinuations - if not outright claims. Some say he cares nothing about recruiting any more. Some say he's just cashing a check. One even has a golden parachute in his signature.

This is meant to show a benchmarked perspective and a bigger picture.

Well, most people just put him on ignore...instead of writing a term paper defending the resume of a coach.

(02-08-2017 04:18 PM)Penny Lane Wrote:  

(02-08-2017 02:25 PM)Tygrys Wrote:  

(02-08-2017 02:22 PM)Penny Lane Wrote:  

(02-08-2017 02:17 PM)Tiger87 Wrote:  Tulsa:

Tubby went 79-43 in 4 years for a 65% win rate. He went to 2 NCAA tourneys (50% rate) and went 4-2 (67%). He averaged 1 win per year.

The preceding 4 years and following 4 years, saw them go 149-98 for a 60% win rate. They went to 3 NCAA tourneys (38%) and went 2-3 (40%) averaging 1 win every 4 years.

The modern era, excluding the Tubby years, had a record of 721-472 for a 60% win rate. They went to 13 NCAA tourneys (35% rate) and went 7-13 (35%) averaging 1 win every 5 years.

Other: Tubby led Tulsa to their NCAA win ever.

Summary: Tubby exceeded all expectations at Tulsa.

Grade: A

I need you to write my resumes. You could land me CEO of Apple job.

Don't flatter yourself. You would have had to actually earn notable achievements to be listed, like Tubby has done throughout his career...

You forgot to list he hung the moon. This is beyond devious that you find a way to take parts of Tubby's resume when needed but ignore those parts when they don't fit your needs; your grading is hilarious. No one who covers CBB would give him anything over a B at KY. He won the NC his FIRST year there. Virtually any KY ( and many media people) fan will tell you he won it with someone else's players

Dude, you're the one taking "11 years" of his resume to fit your narrative. I listed the entire resume.

And at KY, he did win a NC in 10 years. As I said, that's their average. He also met the averages for winning %, etc. He gets the B because he went to 10 NCAA's in 10 years. Hasn't been done before or since. And he is in their HOF. So all of that at least gets you a B.