(02-01-2017 08:31 PM)goofus Wrote:  If schools are doing it "right" and not running anyboy off, they should only be signing 17 to 21 players per class to scholarships.

Pretty much every program runs players off, though. It's just a matter of how many. The difference is, whether they aggressively over-recruit and then take away the scholarships of 10-15 players each year as a matter of policy, or whether they just tell a few players at overstaffed positions that they won't be getting playing time in the future and quietly giving them a chance to transfer instead of yanking their scholarships up front.

(02-01-2017 04:05 PM)TerpsNPhoenix Wrote:  Maryland had 7 early enrollees I believe. Also saw that Coach Durkin said he signed a smaller class last year so he could grab a big one this year.

Sent from my SM-N910V using CSNbbs mobile app

so if 7 players from this year's class enroll in January instead of August, then those 7 players officially count as last year's class?

do they then count last year as a redshirt year for those 7 players?

(02-01-2017 08:36 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(02-01-2017 01:37 PM)p23570 Wrote:  

(02-01-2017 01:30 PM)stever20 Wrote:  saw that 9 of the top 10 guys from the state of Texas are leaving the state.

Was a bad year for the state of Texas as far as college football goes. I remember looking at the top 25 AP poll at one point and there wasn't even a Texas team on the list.

I am shocked with Baylor recruiting class rebound. All those high school coaches they hired are already paying off big time.

Coach O seems to be back at it again.

Season ended poorly. But at one point, Texas, Texas A&M, Baylor, TCU, Houston and Arkansas from the old SWC were all ranked.

Uh, Arkansas is not in Texas and preseason/midseason rankings mean little. It's where you finish the race not where you are halfway. No idea where you pulled SWC into this.

(02-01-2017 08:38 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(02-01-2017 03:39 PM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  

(02-01-2017 12:39 PM)p23570 Wrote:  Was just doing some looking at the recruiting rankings for NSD. Anybody else paying attention? Surprises?

Texas is lower than I expected. I was expecting better from UConn. UCLA is a surprise with a couple of 5 star players. Maryland is also a huge surprise all things considered. Impressive what Richt has done at Miami.

I agree, I'm surprised Maryland is so high & that Texas is so low. I thought that Herman would have made a bigger impact.

Charlie Strong usually got most of his commitments the last two weeks. I think last year he was about #45 within a month of signing day but ended up top 10. So Herman was starting off with only 7 recruits. When Charlie was doing it he had some soft commitments, but if you don't do it publically, it quickly falls by the wayside if coaches change.

Plus, it was a small class.

Charlie left the cupboard plenty full. I have no doubt Herman will be tearing it up with the talent he has.

(02-01-2017 08:31 PM)goofus Wrote:  With redshirting 25 × 5 = 125.

If nobody leaves and everybody redshirts, you can only sign

85 ÷ 5 = 17 per class

If nobody leaves and nobody redshirts you can then sign to scholarships

85 ÷ 4 = 21 per class.

If schools are doing it "right" and not running anyboy off, they should only be signing 17 to 21 players per class to scholarships.

Well I'd give a little wiggle room there. The pre-NFL player stays 2.5 years (leaves after fall of 3rd year). The P5 programs average 2-5 such players every year. So that 17 becomes 19-22.

Then there is normal student attrition. The very best schools retain 90-95% of their Freshmen (UCLA, Duke, etc), the less selective its more like a 75% Freshman retention rate. Let's say for the sake of argument that a P5 program is for the "Football" major like an elite university. So 90-95% retention means you should only lose ~1 players a year through "normal" attrition. Some guys can't live away from home, some just hit a wall in coursework, some flake out. Others decide to change "major" (forget sports, I like Computer Programming or Chemistry or Business Marketing better and don't need to play anymore). That happens. Even a school doing it right when you multiply over 4 classes will see 3-5 players exit on their own.

Factor this in and you are between 22 and 27 slots open. Now mind you you have probably given a walk on or two a scholarship putting you right back to about 25 if you had some extras.

Then there are the 5th year senior grad transfers. You might have one of those 1 and done types. And it's not unusual for schools, even at the P5 level, to have a couple transfer players either from JuCo or another program, who have only 2 years of eligibility left. These should open up on average 2 more scholarships.

This now puts you at 24 to 29, more likely the latter. So without doing anything wrong, you walk into fall able to give away 2 or 3 scholarships to preferred walk-ons, or guys who simply earned a spot the year before with play.

The 25 number doesn't look so ridiculous for doing it the right way.

(02-01-2017 10:03 PM)goofus Wrote:  

(02-01-2017 04:05 PM)TerpsNPhoenix Wrote:  Maryland had 7 early enrollees I believe. Also saw that Coach Durkin said he signed a smaller class last year so he could grab a big one this year.

Sent from my SM-N910V using CSNbbs mobile app

so if 7 players from this year's class enroll in January instead of August, then those 7 players officially count as last year's class?

do they then count last year as a redshirt year for those 7 players?

The 7 players who are now on campus do count toward last years class but I honestly don't know if it is counted as a redshirt year or how they do it. SBN article that says:

"The more common term for a greenshirt is "early enrollee." A greenshirt is a player who graduates high school in December of their senior year and opts to enroll in college before Signing Day. Athletes who greenshirt still have five years to play four seasons, so they can still redshirt.

There are many benefits to greenshirting. These players can get ahead on their classes. They are on full scholarship in the spring and are allowed to participate in spring practice and work out with the team; Alabama used an early enrollee quarterback to prepare for Clemson in this year's National Championship.

Greenshirting has become much more common in recent years, as players are looking to get college-ready quicker."

http://www.sbnation.com/college-football...hirt-rules

I don't follow Signing Day closely (or at all for that matter) but curious:

Historically which FCS schools have the best Signing Days?

(02-01-2017 04:10 PM)utpotts Wrote:  

(02-01-2017 03:54 PM)utpotts Wrote:  

(02-01-2017 03:48 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(02-01-2017 03:39 PM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  

(02-01-2017 12:39 PM)p23570 Wrote:  Was just doing some looking at the recruiting rankings for NSD. Anybody else paying attention? Surprises?

Texas is lower than I expected. I was expecting better from UConn. UCLA is a surprise with a couple of 5 star players. Maryland is also a huge surprise all things considered. Impressive what Richt has done at Miami.

I agree, I'm surprised Maryland is so high & that Texas is so low. I thought that Herman would have made a bigger impact.

Looks like Maryland signed a ton of players. Scout says 29, that is a huge class.

I believe Michigan is up to 29 as well.

My bad.... Michigan is up to 30 with the commitment of Nico Collins out of Alabama.

Rutgers with 29 as well. Flood did a terrible job the past few years after taking over a roster rich with Schiano's NFL talent and then crapping the bed recruiting and coaching. Ash had to save whatever was left of the decent talents last year so we had a lot of spots open. Missed out on some good recruits this year where we were finalists thanks to competition with Penn State, Maryland and Iowa but won almost all of the ones where we were finalists and we're finally on the path back to competitiveness again.

(02-02-2017 06:05 AM)TerpsNPhoenix Wrote:  

(02-01-2017 10:03 PM)goofus Wrote:  

(02-01-2017 04:05 PM)TerpsNPhoenix Wrote:  Maryland had 7 early enrollees I believe. Also saw that Coach Durkin said he signed a smaller class last year so he could grab a big one this year.

Sent from my SM-N910V using CSNbbs mobile app

so if 7 players from this year's class enroll in January instead of August, then those 7 players officially count as last year's class?

do they then count last year as a redshirt year for those 7 players?

The 7 players who are now on campus do count toward last years class but I honestly don't know if it is counted as a redshirt year or how they do it. SBN article that says:

"The more common term for a greenshirt is "early enrollee." A greenshirt is a player who graduates high school in December of their senior year and opts to enroll in college before Signing Day. Athletes who greenshirt still have five years to play four seasons, so they can still redshirt.

There are many benefits to greenshirting. These players can get ahead on their classes. They are on full scholarship in the spring and are allowed to participate in spring practice and work out with the team; Alabama used an early enrollee quarterback to prepare for Clemson in this year's National Championship.

Greenshirting has become much more common in recent years, as players are looking to get college-ready quicker."

http://www.sbnation.com/college-football...hirt-rules

Ok I guess that is only fair that they should get 5 years to play 4 seasons, but then I don't understand why they would count as last year's class instead of this year's class.

Maybe its not that big of deal because the combined total for both years can't go over 50, but it just seems like they cheating to me. Well, at the very least, exploiting a loophole that needs to be closed. At the very least, the early enrollees should lose a redshirt year if they are counting them for last year's class.

(02-02-2017 12:23 PM)AntiG Wrote:  

(02-01-2017 04:10 PM)utpotts Wrote:  

(02-01-2017 03:54 PM)utpotts Wrote:  

(02-01-2017 03:48 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(02-01-2017 03:39 PM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  I agree, I'm surprised Maryland is so high & that Texas is so low. I thought that Herman would have made a bigger impact.

Looks like Maryland signed a ton of players. Scout says 29, that is a huge class.

I believe Michigan is up to 29 as well.

My bad.... Michigan is up to 30 with the commitment of Nico Collins out of Alabama.

Rutgers with 29 as well. Flood did a terrible job the past few years after taking over a roster rich with Schiano's NFL talent and then crapping the bed recruiting and coaching. Ash had to save whatever was left of the decent talents last year so we had a lot of spots open. Missed out on some good recruits this year where we were finalists thanks to competition with Penn State, Maryland and Iowa but won almost all of the ones where we were finalists and we're finally on the path back to competitiveness again.

I was looking at the history of Rutgers football. Wow. I knew it was bad but jeezus that's just terrible. Aside from Schiano there is just nothing, unless you go back to the other conference championship in 1895.

I'll be pulling for you to beat Nebraska this year!

If Rutgers could ever recruit in-State well they'd be a power.

The B1G added them, and what did you see? A tOSU vs Michigan game with something like 20 New Jersey kids on their rosters. It's really obvious the B1G added Rutgers for the NYC & NJ cable TV plus to dominate NJ recruiting and push the ACC and SEC out of there. They achieved both, and got the bonus of a free win every year for their East teams against Rutgers.

(02-02-2017 02:09 PM)goofus Wrote:  

(02-02-2017 06:05 AM)TerpsNPhoenix Wrote:  

(02-01-2017 10:03 PM)goofus Wrote:  

(02-01-2017 04:05 PM)TerpsNPhoenix Wrote:  Maryland had 7 early enrollees I believe. Also saw that Coach Durkin said he signed a smaller class last year so he could grab a big one this year.

Sent from my SM-N910V using CSNbbs mobile app

so if 7 players from this year's class enroll in January instead of August, then those 7 players officially count as last year's class?

do they then count last year as a redshirt year for those 7 players?

The 7 players who are now on campus do count toward last years class but I honestly don't know if it is counted as a redshirt year or how they do it. SBN article that says:

"The more common term for a greenshirt is "early enrollee." A greenshirt is a player who graduates high school in December of their senior year and opts to enroll in college before Signing Day. Athletes who greenshirt still have five years to play four seasons, so they can still redshirt.

There are many benefits to greenshirting. These players can get ahead on their classes. They are on full scholarship in the spring and are allowed to participate in spring practice and work out with the team; Alabama used an early enrollee quarterback to prepare for Clemson in this year's National Championship.

Greenshirting has become much more common in recent years, as players are looking to get college-ready quicker."

http://www.sbnation.com/college-football...hirt-rules

Ok I guess that is only fair that they should get 5 years to play 4 seasons, but then I don't understand why they would count as last year's class instead of this year's class.

Maybe its not that big of deal because the combined total for both years can't go over 50, but it just seems like they cheating to me. Well, at the very least, exploiting a loophole that needs to be closed. At the very least, the early enrollees should lose a redshirt year if they are counting them for last year's class.

I believe they can only count against the prior year's class if they signed fewer than the annual maximum of 25 that year. So, if they signed only 15 in the previous class, then they can have up to 10 greenshirts this year. If they don't have enough spots for "greenshirts" (or can't persuade enough kids to enroll early, they can require the excess in this year's class to "greyshirt" and be counted against next year's class.

(02-01-2017 04:11 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(02-01-2017 04:06 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  Illinois State signs a kid named Kobe Buffalomeat. And the winner of National Signing Day goes to...

I'm sure his parents yell out "Bison" whenever he leaves the house.

something tells me when Mr. Kobe gets married his wife isn't going to take his name.

His mom had no problems...

He's 3/4 Native American

(02-02-2017 02:37 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(02-02-2017 02:09 PM)goofus Wrote:  

(02-02-2017 06:05 AM)TerpsNPhoenix Wrote:  

(02-01-2017 10:03 PM)goofus Wrote:  

(02-01-2017 04:05 PM)TerpsNPhoenix Wrote:  Maryland had 7 early enrollees I believe. Also saw that Coach Durkin said he signed a smaller class last year so he could grab a big one this year.

Sent from my SM-N910V using CSNbbs mobile app

so if 7 players from this year's class enroll in January instead of August, then those 7 players officially count as last year's class?

do they then count last year as a redshirt year for those 7 players?

The 7 players who are now on campus do count toward last years class but I honestly don't know if it is counted as a redshirt year or how they do it. SBN article that says:

"The more common term for a greenshirt is "early enrollee." A greenshirt is a player who graduates high school in December of their senior year and opts to enroll in college before Signing Day. Athletes who greenshirt still have five years to play four seasons, so they can still redshirt.

There are many benefits to greenshirting. These players can get ahead on their classes. They are on full scholarship in the spring and are allowed to participate in spring practice and work out with the team; Alabama used an early enrollee quarterback to prepare for Clemson in this year's National Championship.

Greenshirting has become much more common in recent years, as players are looking to get college-ready quicker."

http://www.sbnation.com/college-football...hirt-rules

Ok I guess that is only fair that they should get 5 years to play 4 seasons, but then I don't understand why they would count as last year's class instead of this year's class.

Maybe its not that big of deal because the combined total for both years can't go over 50, but it just seems like they cheating to me. Well, at the very least, exploiting a loophole that needs to be closed. At the very least, the early enrollees should lose a redshirt year if they are counting them for last year's class.

I believe they can only count against the prior year's class if they signed fewer than the annual maximum of 25 that year. So, if they signed only 15 in the previous class, then they can have up to 10 greenshirts this year. If they don't have enough spots for "greenshirts" (or can't persuade enough kids to enroll early, they can require the excess in this year's class to "greyshirt" and be counted against next year's class.

This is my understanding as well. As I said in an earlier post, Durkin intentionally sign a smaller class last year to be able to do this now. From what I understand, next year's class will be more of a normal size. I really hope it is because I hate the idea of greyshirts. I don't want Maryland doing that even if it would come at the cost of wins.

Sent from my SM-N910V using CSNbbs mobile app

(02-02-2017 02:42 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(02-01-2017 04:11 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(02-01-2017 04:06 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  Illinois State signs a kid named Kobe Buffalomeat. And the winner of National Signing Day goes to...

I'm sure his parents yell out "Bison" whenever he leaves the house.

something tells me when Mr. Kobe gets married his wife isn't going to take his name.

His mom had no problems...

He's 3/4 Native American

That's nothing for an indian name. I've seen stuff like "Afraid of Bear" in South Dakota.

(02-01-2017 08:47 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(02-01-2017 08:31 PM)goofus Wrote:  If schools are doing it "right" and not running anyboy off, they should only be signing 17 to 21 players per class to scholarships.

Pretty much every program runs players off, though. It's just a matter of how many. The difference is, whether they aggressively over-recruit and then take away the scholarships of 10-15 players each year as a matter of policy, or whether they just tell a few players at overstaffed positions that they won't be getting playing time in the future and quietly giving them a chance to transfer instead of yanking their scholarships up front.

Not really.

http://www.tigernet.com/story/football/S...yers-15600

Quote:“I don't know if I have the exact numbers or the exact history, but you have to look back on the retention of our players and guys that stay here at Clemson. The main reason they stay at Clemson is because of the culture and because of their experience here at Clemson University,” Streeter said in the team room of the new Clemson Football Complex. “I think that's where you're not losing guys and adding more numbers to that class or adding more numbers to the next class that you have to sign, so I do think that's a big part of it. There are schools out there that you see signing 25 every year and if you do the math, you're only getting 85 scholarships. If guys are leaving your program all of the time then that allows you to bring in more guys each and every class. That's my opinion. How it got this small - 14 guys - I'm not sure exactly other than we're retaining guys. We feel great about our kids, the ones that we have, and we do a great job, in our opinion, of developing them.”

Clemson’s numbers may be low this year and next, but a look back at the recent recruiting classes under Swinney show the Tigers have signed for than their fair share of players.

Clemson signed 22 in 2016, 26 in 2015, 22 in 2014, 23 in 2013, 20 in 2012, 29 in 2011, 23 in 2010 and the original Dandy Dozen in Swinney’s first recruiting class in 2009.

Swinney said Clemson’s class size comes down to simple math.

“It's simple math. I don't understand how you sign 25 every year. Twenty-five times four is 100. I don't think 25 freshmen play every year,” Swinney said. “I've never known 25 freshmen to play in a year. Usually, you redshirt a lot of those guys. If you've got 85 scholarships when you start the season and you lose 12, I don't know how you sign 25 unless you're running guys off or whatever.”

He then said he wouldn't run off players that don’t develop as fast as others.

“It's just not how we operate. We love our guys,” Swinney said. “We're committed to our guys. Our job is to develop them. It's til graduation do we part. We've got 14 spots, that's what we had, and we've got one spot left and that's going to be for whoever wins the punting job. We're going to have a heck of a little punting competition and whoever wins it is going to get that scholarship job in the fall. We have 14 to give, it's what we had. Like I said, next year we've got nine seniors and one guy leave the program. I've got 10 scholarships in my pocket for 2018."

There's been attrition at Clemson but other than players dismissed for disciplinary action Clemson doesn't "run people off".

I tell you aside from Texas having a bad class WVU is probably the biggest surprise there. Holgy just signed an extension so this is surprising coming off a pretty good season.

247Sports composite Big 12 team rankings after NSD:
8. OU 26. Texas 31. TCU 38. OkSt 39. Baylor 52 Tech 53 Iowa St 56. WVU 62 K-State. 70 KU

(02-02-2017 02:14 PM)p23570 Wrote:  

(02-02-2017 12:23 PM)AntiG Wrote:  

(02-01-2017 04:10 PM)utpotts Wrote:  

(02-01-2017 03:54 PM)utpotts Wrote:  

(02-01-2017 03:48 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  Looks like Maryland signed a ton of players. Scout says 29, that is a huge class.

I believe Michigan is up to 29 as well.

My bad.... Michigan is up to 30 with the commitment of Nico Collins out of Alabama.

Rutgers with 29 as well. Flood did a terrible job the past few years after taking over a roster rich with Schiano's NFL talent and then crapping the bed recruiting and coaching. Ash had to save whatever was left of the decent talents last year so we had a lot of spots open. Missed out on some good recruits this year where we were finalists thanks to competition with Penn State, Maryland and Iowa but won almost all of the ones where we were finalists and we're finally on the path back to competitiveness again.

I was looking at the history of Rutgers football. Wow. I knew it was bad but jeezus that's just terrible. Aside from Schiano there is just nothing, unless you go back to the other conference championship in 1895.

I'll be pulling for you to beat Nebraska this year!

Its amazing right? The Birthplace of College Football, 1895, 1978 and then the Schiano era. That's all pretty much. At least ever since the 2000s the university is finally investing and look to have hired the right AD.

(02-02-2017 09:56 PM)p23570 Wrote:  I tell you aside from Texas having a bad class WVU is probably the biggest surprise there. Holgy just signed an extension so this is surprising coming off a pretty good season.

247Sports composite Big 12 team rankings after NSD:
8. OU 26. Texas 31. TCU 38. OkSt 39. Baylor 52 Tech 53 Iowa St 56. WVU 62 K-State. 70 KU

Everybody was pretty typical except Texas and WVU. OU maybe a little better than in recent years.

Note that ESPN has Baylor in the top 40, which is more typical than top 20 like last year or #52 as in 247.

(02-03-2017 09:57 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(02-02-2017 09:56 PM)p23570 Wrote:  I tell you aside from Texas having a bad class WVU is probably the biggest surprise there. Holgy just signed an extension so this is surprising coming off a pretty good season.

247Sports composite Big 12 team rankings after NSD:
8. OU 26. Texas 31. TCU 38. OkSt 39. Baylor 52 Tech 53 Iowa St 56. WVU 62 K-State. 70 KU

Everybody was pretty typical except Texas and WVU. OU maybe a little better than in recent years.

Note that ESPN has Baylor in the top 40, which is more typical than top 20 like last year or #52 as in 247.

Baylor has certainly had some talent in recent years. I always look at the actual average * rating. Sometimes it seem that big classes get ranked higher which is deceiving IMO.