(11-20-2016 11:06 AM)Love and Honor Wrote:  

(11-20-2016 04:49 AM)perimeterpost Wrote:  ask yourself- is WMU an ELITE program? Is the MAC an ELITE conference? there's no way the Billy Mays of football is ever going to settle for staying at somewhere that isn't ELITE any longer than he has to. its not about the money, its about being ELITE.

Everyone
Leaves
In
The
End

Pretty much. As much as we want to think that our hot young head coach is Bill Snyder and will stick around to take us from obscurity to a national power, it just doesn't happen hardly at all. We live in a world where Michigan State was a springboard for Nick Saban, how the hell is WMU going to keep Fleck?

Because WMU will pay Fleck to stay more than Saban was getting to start at LSU when he made a jump.

Fleck is 35 years old and only has 5 kids to feed so doesn't need as much as another coach with 8 or 9 children.

(11-20-2016 04:49 AM)perimeterpost Wrote:  ask yourself- is WMU an ELITE program? Is the MAC an ELITE conference? there's no way the Billy Mays of football is ever going to settle for staying at somewhere that isn't ELITE any longer than he has to. its not about the money, its about being ELITE.

Everyone
Leaves
In
The
End

I don't disagree. If the tradeoff, though, is a capstone season with a MAC championship, wins over two B1G teams, a College Gameday appearance in Kalamazoo, and potentially a NY6 bowl, I'd accept that tradeoff any day in a heartbeat.

The most important part of all of that, though, is the MAC title. If he takes care of that and wants to go elsewhere, I'm totally fine with that. The list of MAC coaches who have moved on to supposedly greener pastures is littered with names that failed to win a MAC title before departing (Urban Meyer, Brady Hoke, and Darrell Hazell, just to name a few). Winning the MAC is anything but a given. Toledo will be a very tough opponent, as they always are. Get past Toledo, and we've all seen the crazy upsets that have happened in MACCs past. I take nothing for granted moving forward.

As for P.J. leaving, his stock may never be higher than it is now, which is certainly a big factor to consider. On the other hand, he's so young that he doesn't need to jump at the first high-paying, low-level P5 offer (hello, Purdue) that comes his way. If the LSU and Oregons of the world come offering, I'd be shocked if he stays. He's got a boatload of talent here waiting in the wings, though, he's already the highest-paid coach in the MAC, and the school is looking to do what it can to pay him and his staff more. Will it be enough to keep him to stay? In the long run, probably not. In the short term? Possibly, depending on who comes calling. The grass isn't always greener on the other side. Ask Hazell.

Just win the MAC. As a Bronco fan, that's all I ask.

Most coaches do the simple math that they will have a financial security even if they fail in 4-5 years that they won't have if they stay at the MAC school for 10. Plus they have 4+ years to figure out the next move: usually a highly paid P5 assistant gig, also more than the MAC head job.

It's not really some agonizing choice, despite the tearful farewells.

Fleck's gotten enough success and money ($800k-1m annually) out of WMU that his next contract at the P5 will probably be better than Hazell (1.75m) or Campbell ($2m) at their dead end P5 spots. He can hold for a less dead end jump or get a bigger contract in the 2.5m range from same dead end move

ISU is not a dead end job. They damn near have the best fans in the BIG12 and support the crap out of that team. They also have experienced very little success so a mere bowl game would be terrific for the Cyclones. They beat Texas Tech by 40 yesterday.

(11-19-2016 03:01 PM)Nacho Wrote:  I don't know if you noticed but during the segment where they bring up local food to the desk, there was a person wearing a U of M hat bringing up the food. The WMU fan base got pissed and the restaurant had to issue an official apology on facebook. Typically no one bats an eye at people wearing MSU/U of M gear at WMU/CMU/EMU events. Seeing people pissed off was awesome.

I noticed this and got pissed off, even as a Toledo fan. It was disrespectful, WMU shouldn't have invited that business. I love the fact that WMU made enough noise to warrant an apology on social media, good stuff. What was the restaurant's name, do you know?

(11-19-2016 04:38 PM)perimeterpost Wrote:  that was an awesome Fleck-for-hire infomercial, I mean WMU College Gameday broadcast this morning.

That's exactly what it was. Still a great showcase for WMU in general...but we gotta be real here, everything showcased was Fleck-related. The whole 'row the boat' slogan goes away once Fleck leaves, yet you'd think that was the official motto of WMU by watching GameDay. Since Fleck has the slogan trademarked, I heard the whole locker room and everything will have to be renovated...again.

WMU owns the trademark for RTB for what it's worth.

(11-20-2016 01:47 PM)inductchuck16 Wrote:  

(11-19-2016 04:38 PM)perimeterpost Wrote:  that was an awesome Fleck-for-hire infomercial, I mean WMU College Gameday broadcast this morning.

That's exactly what it was. Still a great showcase for WMU in general...but we gotta be real here, everything showcased was Fleck-related. The whole 'row the boat' slogan goes away once Fleck leaves, yet you'd think that was the official motto of WMU by watching GameDay. Since Fleck has the slogan trademarked, I heard the whole locker room and everything will have to be renovated...again.

Wrong, wrong, and wrong again.

WMU has the slogan trademarked....

I've been curious about that. Would a new coach want to keep those slogans so associated with Fleck? Fleck can't bring RTB to a new place, nor would he want to if he could. So does he come up with a new set of slogans. ("Hey Purdue fans! Stoke the Boiler!") And does Row the Boat die with his departure?

thats the thing that has always rubbed me about RTB. A nautical theme for a land-locked school with a horse for a mascot makes zero sense. It doesn't matter that WMU owns the rights to RTB, its all going to be DOA when he leaves. There's no way the next head coach comes in and continues pushing the previous coach's schtick.

(11-20-2016 03:59 PM)perimeterpost Wrote:  thats the thing that has always rubbed me about RTB. A nautical theme for a land-locked school with a horse for a mascot makes zero sense. It doesn't matter that WMU owns the rights to RTB, its all going to be DOA when he leaves. There's no way the next head coach comes in and continues pushing the previous coach's schtick.

That's the thing. If EMU keeps on winning and Creighton moves on to another job, The Factory is still relevant for the program because it fits with Eastern and the Ypsilanti community as a whole. Unless one of the current assistants takes over, RTB is going to go down as one of those "remember when this was a thing" kind of things a decade from now.

Fleck has always made it clear that RTB is a life philosophy and that it is separate from the Broncos, which is who Western is. Where have you guys been the past four years, under a rock?? How do you not know this? We are the Broncos, RTB was never meant to replace it nor has it.

(11-20-2016 04:16 PM)Love and Honor Wrote:  

(11-20-2016 03:59 PM)perimeterpost Wrote:  thats the thing that has always rubbed me about RTB. A nautical theme for a land-locked school with a horse for a mascot makes zero sense. It doesn't matter that WMU owns the rights to RTB, its all going to be DOA when he leaves. There's no way the next head coach comes in and continues pushing the previous coach's schtick.

That's the thing. If EMU keeps on winning and Creighton moves on to another job, The Factory is still relevant for the program because it fits with Eastern and the Ypsilanti community as a whole. Unless one of the current assistants takes over, RTB is going to go down as one of those "remember when this was a thing" kind of things a decade from now.

Kind of like you have "Roll Tide" for a landlocked school with an elephant for a mascot. That doesn't make any sense at all but it made it to tradition status. Row the Boat may seem like it doesn't make sense bit it works for our students and student-athletes.

(11-20-2016 03:04 PM)MacLord Wrote:  Would a new coach want to keep those slogans so associated with Fleck?

Does Row the Boat die with his departure?

Depends on who the new coach is. If it's a coach hired from within the current staff, or with a previous tie to it, then it's possible RTB stays. If the new coach is an outsider, it likely dies out.

IMO, the longer P.J. stays, the better chance RTB has of surviving his departure. If he leaves after this year, I think it fades pretty quickly. If he sticks around for a while and continues to have anything close to approaching the level of success of this season, it has a chance to continue into the future.

WMU doesn't own the trademark because of keeping it for future coaches. If Fleck takes it that next school will pay for it. My guess is Fleck will invent a new mantra at his next stop. He makes up slogans every week.

(11-20-2016 06:46 PM)Doo Wrote:  WMU doesn't own the trademark because of keeping it for future coaches. If Fleck takes it that next school will pay for it. My guess is Fleck will invent a new mantra at his next stop. He makes up slogans every week.

Actually it was repeatedly reported this weekend that WMU did trademark it. So if or when he leaves Row the Boat stays.

(11-20-2016 01:41 PM)inductchuck16 Wrote:  

(11-19-2016 03:01 PM)Nacho Wrote:  I don't know if you noticed but during the segment where they bring up local food to the desk, there was a person wearing a U of M hat bringing up the food. The WMU fan base got pissed and the restaurant had to issue an official apology on facebook. Typically no one bats an eye at people wearing MSU/U of M gear at WMU/CMU/EMU events. Seeing people pissed off was awesome.

I noticed this and got pissed off, even as a Toledo fan. It was disrespectful, WMU shouldn't have invited that business. I love the fact that WMU made enough noise to warrant an apology on social media, good stuff. What was the restaurant's name, do you know?

Food Dance. They posted the apology on their facebook page.

(11-20-2016 08:37 PM)John52168 Wrote:  

(11-20-2016 06:46 PM)Doo Wrote:  WMU doesn't own the trademark because of keeping it for future coaches. If Fleck takes it that next school will pay for it. My guess is Fleck will invent a new mantra at his next stop. He makes up slogans every week.

Actually it was repeatedly reported this weekend that WMU did trademark it. So if or when he leaves Row the Boat stays.

I agree it's not going with Fleck.

Quote:WMU doesn't own the trademark because of keeping it for future coaches. If Fleck takes it that next school will pay for it. My guess is Fleck will invent a new mantra at his next stop. He makes up slogans every week.

I was hoping that Illinois kept Cubit for this year, and then hire Fleck after this year -- where Fleck would be dressed up as an Indian repeatedly saying "HOW, HOW, HOW" with "Row the CanYou!"

And yes, it looks like ROW THE BOAT was trademarked in reference to college athletics for WMU:

https://trademarks.justia.com/859/39/row...39783.html