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(09-14-2016 08:15 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(09-14-2016 08:12 AM)FTW ODU Wrote:  To me this is simple, the VT game next year will decide Wilder's fate. If we win, he stays a long time. If we lose a close game he stays but is on the hot seat. If we get destroyed we're looking for a new coach.

Can you explain further why are coaching staff would be judged solely on a game where we are expected to lose by 20+?

The Vegas lines have already come out for a game over a year away? That's crazy! Can you link that to me please?

(09-14-2016 08:23 AM)FTW ODU Wrote:  

(09-14-2016 08:15 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(09-14-2016 08:12 AM)FTW ODU Wrote:  To me this is simple, the VT game next year will decide Wilder's fate. If we win, he stays a long time. If we lose a close game he stays but is on the hot seat. If we get destroyed we're looking for a new coach.

Can you explain further why are coaching staff would be judged solely on a game where we are expected to lose by 20+?

The Vegas lines have already come out for a game over a year away? That's crazy! Can you link that to me please?

Of course not, but that is what the line will be. We are over a 20 point dog at NC State this week.

You'd have to be crazy to judge any coach -- or employee in any industry -- on the strength of one day. Like him or not, Wilder has done a good job of building this program, despite some obvious obstacles. Thank God you don't run this athletic program; we'd be changing coaches every other week.

If the goal of the FB program in the eyes of the administration is to win a conf championship then he should have a timeline as to when to expect one. We aren't going to get one this year and probably not next year either. At some point the decision makers are going to be tired of getting curb stomped by Marshall, WKU, MTSU and the other schools in our conf that we can't seem to be able to compete with. Don't' get me wrong, a bowl game would be nice but its really a consolation prize IMO if we are still getting beaten handedly by the better teams in our conference.

Open response to the person who messaged me “how dare you start a poll and calling out our greatest football coach”

Well, I didn't base this on 1 game. See facts below.

I like to think that we are consider the 1 percenter (The diehard fans) who find their way here by looking for more insight to our beloved sports programs.

As I stated before if Wilder can’t turn the program around by the end of 2017 season we need to be looking for a new coaching staff. Wilder has done great things for us and very well could still do great things for us as our coach. I understand this is new territory (FBS) to him and his loyalty to his Maine coaches is still very strong but I think if he doesn’t make changes his loyalty will cost him his position as head coach here.

Our first FBS win vs. Idaho and hang with ECU and Pitt gave hope that we could compete at the next level. Since leaving FCS Wilder has yet to steal a big time win from a FBS program. Sure some would consider Rice and La Tech of 2014 big time wins but Rice was coming off of two weeks of getting beat by two top 20 teams before facing ODU. La Tech lost to an FCS team that year.

RICE 8-5 and La Tech 9-5 both in FBS are the only teams that ODU has beat with winning records.

Outside of Rice and La Tech Wilder has never beat a team with a winning recorded in FBS.

Wilder is 10 (wins) vs. 18 (losses) in FBS games

The FBS teams we have beat since 2013 are combined 38 wins vs. 85 losses (4 wins were vs. FCS teams). Rice and La Tech account for 17-10. To make them numbers even sadder combined is (17 wins vs. 75 loses) * with Rice and La Tech removed and (-4 fcs)

It seems every time I read or hear the media talk about ODU football they include **** was a walk on or ***** was a transfer or **** is an FCS guy or **** has earned a scholarship. That tells me Wilder and staff can coach and mold guys to play at this level but what is keeping them from turning our 2 and 3 star guys into stars?

From this poll 76% feel we need change by the end of the 2018 season if things don't turn around soon.

Selig oversaw the transition from FCS to FBS at WKU. Their early seasons record was far worse than ours and growth occurred slowly. He understands the obstacles and appreciates the steep learning curve. He will continue to be patient with BW as long as progress is being made. My point is many of us want a quantum leap forward, but what we're getting is incremental progress.
I've seen enough after 2 games to feel like this team is indeed making progress, albeit much slower than I want.
I still think he needs to look at the OC position and consider making a change there. I've seen progress and this season is still young. A couple of upper level wins this year will change most everyone's opinion of BW. I still think that can happen this year.

(09-14-2016 10:08 AM)Old Dominion Wrote:  Selig oversaw the transition from FCS to FBS at WKU. Their early seasons record was far worse than ours and growth occurred slowly. He understands the obstacles and appreciates the steep learning curve. He will continue to be patient with BW as long as progress is being made. My point is many of us want a quantum leap forward, but what we're getting is incremental progress.
I've seen enough after 2 games to feel like this team is indeed making progress, albeit much slower than I want.
I still think he needs to look at the OC position and consider making a change there. I've seen progress and this season is still young. A couple of upper level wins this year will change most everyone's opinion of BW. I still think that can happen this year.

WS also said he learned a lot from his time at WKU and he wouldn't make the same mistakes again. It took WS leaving WKU and a new coaching staff to turn WKU around.

Unless they are making egregious errors, any coaching staff should be given 5 years. They need a full 5-year recruiting cycle. While Wilder has been here longer, he's still only in year 3 of true FBS level recruits though we were able to nab some good players in 2013. If you compare us to other start ups, we have done an exceptional job. Certainly, there are some that did better, but they were generally well established great FCS teams that moved up. If you look at our record, we are one of the best teams in the country at winning close games and that is largely affected by coaching. All of our blowouts were against teams that had far superior talent.

If I was making the decision, I would want the team to be competitive against everybody in the CUSA this year. Whether they win 3 games or 7 in conference is less important than how we are competing. Next year would be the year I judge wins and losses and if we are a below .500 team next year, I would have Wilder on the hot seat. By my count, that would mean end of 2017 at the earliest for any hot seat.

However, we have done a phenomenal job with only 1 losing season. People underestimate the talent gap between FCS and FBS and the affect the number of scholarships have. You just can't go from 65 to 85 and compete against good teams on a consistent basis. Our fans seem to have unrealistic expectations or a some may be like the JMU doofus on the board who doesn't realize how inferior FCS teams are.

(09-14-2016 10:17 AM)AimHigh Wrote:  

(09-14-2016 10:08 AM)Old Dominion Wrote:  Selig oversaw the transition from FCS to FBS at WKU. Their early seasons record was far worse than ours and growth occurred slowly. He understands the obstacles and appreciates the steep learning curve. He will continue to be patient with BW as long as progress is being made. My point is many of us want a quantum leap forward, but what we're getting is incremental progress.
I've seen enough after 2 games to feel like this team is indeed making progress, albeit much slower than I want.
I still think he needs to look at the OC position and consider making a change there. I've seen progress and this season is still young. A couple of upper level wins this year will change most everyone's opinion of BW. I still think that can happen this year.

WS also said he learned a lot from his time at WKU and he wouldn't make the same mistakes again. It took WS leaving WKU and a new coaching staff to turn WKU around.

Correlation does not imply causation. Its difficult to move up. Was the record because of poor coaching or bc they were a startup FBS program?

(09-14-2016 10:25 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Unless they are making egregious errors, any coaching staff should be given 5 years. They need a full 5-year recruiting cycle. While Wilder has been here longer, he's still only in year 3 of true FBS level recruits though we were able to nab some good players in 2013. If you compare us to other start ups, we have done an exceptional job. Certainly, there are some that did better, but they were generally well established great FCS teams that moved up. If you look at our record, we are one of the best teams in the country at winning close games and that is largely affected by coaching. All of our blowouts were against teams that had far superior talent.

If I was making the decision, I would want the team to be competitive against everybody in the CUSA this year. Whether they win 3 games or 7 in conference is less important than how we are competing. Next year would be the year I judge wins and losses and if we are a below .500 team next year, I would have Wilder on the hot seat. By my count, that would mean end of 2017 at the earliest for any hot seat.

However, we have done a phenomenal job with only 1 losing season. People underestimate the talent gap between FCS and FBS and the affect the number of scholarships have. You just can't go from 65 to 85 and compete against good teams on a consistent basis. Our fans seem to have unrealistic expectations or a some may be like the JMU doofus on the board who doesn't realize how inferior FCS teams are.

I can to that... All I want is to compete. Sad to say but if we lost by 14pts and we competed on all phases I would still be happy.

(09-14-2016 10:28 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(09-14-2016 10:17 AM)AimHigh Wrote:  

(09-14-2016 10:08 AM)Old Dominion Wrote:  Selig oversaw the transition from FCS to FBS at WKU. Their early seasons record was far worse than ours and growth occurred slowly. He understands the obstacles and appreciates the steep learning curve. He will continue to be patient with BW as long as progress is being made. My point is many of us want a quantum leap forward, but what we're getting is incremental progress.
I've seen enough after 2 games to feel like this team is indeed making progress, albeit much slower than I want.
I still think he needs to look at the OC position and consider making a change there. I've seen progress and this season is still young. A couple of upper level wins this year will change most everyone's opinion of BW. I still think that can happen this year.

WS also said he learned a lot from his time at WKU and he wouldn't make the same mistakes again. It took WS leaving WKU and a new coaching staff to turn WKU around.

Correlation does not imply causation. Its difficult to move up. Was the record because of poor coaching or bc they were a startup FBS program?

WS allowed a hack job of their football schedule in 2008 with back to back byes

I also want to add Whitcomb (1 of 4 coaches from Maine) in 8 season hasn't developed 1 QB yet. When I state developed I mean someone ODU recruited to ride the pine for a few seasons and play the position at QB when we graduate a QB. DeMarco fail in to his arms at the start of 2009 fall practice and TH started half way in his freshman season. Whitcomb has had 8 season to try to develop QBs but hasn't. Whitcombs over used quote with TH "we didnt want to fix anything that wasnt broke but there could be improvements" come on coach develop a backup in the meantime. I just dont understand how he profits off these QB camps but hasnt developed a QB for our program. He is just riding the success of TD and TH who he didnt have to develop.

So Wilder, Mike London and the OL coach from W&M were the three "finalists" for the job, one vetted by a large committee of people from across the university spectrum. From what I was told, from an organization and vision standpoint, Wilder lapped the field.

So, we fire him after 2017. Is the job more appealing now than when we first hired a coach? Yes. We've got players (at least), stadium plans, a proven record of drawing fans, decent media (across the state radio).

But, we have to buy out whatever would be left of Wilder's contract and those of his assistants. As I think has become painfully clear, we're not a wealthy university, so the timing, to me, has more to do with contract status (years left) than W's and L's. And what we can afford to pay the new guy/staff.

I mean, if we're still losing 49-0 or whatever, then we may be forced to make a move. But financial realities have to come into play.

(09-14-2016 11:01 AM)jumpshooter Wrote:  So Wilder, Mike London and the OL coach from W&M were the three "finalists" for the job, one vetted by a large committee of people from across the university spectrum. From what I was told, from an organization and vision standpoint, Wilder lapped the field.

So, we fire him after 2017. Is the job more appealing now than when we first hired a coach? Yes. We've got players (at least), stadium plans, a proven record of drawing fans, decent media (across the state radio).

But, we have to buy out whatever would be left of Wilder's contract and those of his assistants. As I think has become painfully clear, we're not a wealthy university, so the timing, to me, has more to do with contract status (years left) than W's and L's. And what we can afford to pay the new guy/staff.

I mean, if we're still losing 49-0 or whatever, then we may be forced to make a move. But financial realities have to come into play.

I heard ODU didn't go knocking on doors to find a coach either. If I am starting a company or team I'm knocking on doors/ making calls to see for myself who's out there. I think the job now that it is FBS is appealing then a startup but its a money game. We would only get an up and coming or a has been as a head coach.

(09-14-2016 10:57 AM)AimHigh Wrote:  I also want to add Whitcomb (1 of 4 coaches from Maine) in 8 season hasn't developed 1 QB yet. When I state developed I mean someone ODU recruited to ride the pine for a few seasons and play the position at QB when we graduate a QB. DeMarco fail in to his arms at the start of 2009 fall practice and TH started half way in his freshman season. Whitcomb has had 8 season to try to develop QBs but hasn't. Whitcombs over used quote with TH "we didnt want to fix anything that wasnt broke but there could be improvements" come on coach develop a backup in the meantime. I just dont understand how he profits off these QB camps but hasnt developed a QB for our program. He is just riding the success of TD and TH who he didnt have to develop.

This is absurd. I tried to put it mildly, but cannot come up with anything else.

Thomas DeMarco was a punter that schools had zero interest in playing him at QB except for Div 3 schools. The staff saw him play at College of the Desert and recruited him.

Taylor Heincke came in as a freshman midget weighing 150 pounds that hardly anyone wanted. How did he not develop under our staff? Do you think he was just as good as a freshman (when no one wanted him) as he was when he left (when the NFL wanted him)? Do you think he could have started at VT as a freshman?

David Washington was a backup FCS QB (behind a star) that moved to WR and is now playing FBS football as a starting QB. How did he not develop? Could he have played as a freshman at the FBS level?

The book has not been written on the other possible QBs on our roster that are either Freshman or Sophomores.

(09-14-2016 11:42 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(09-14-2016 10:57 AM)AimHigh Wrote:  I also want to add Whitcomb (1 of 4 coaches from Maine) in 8 season hasn't developed 1 QB yet. When I state developed I mean someone ODU recruited to ride the pine for a few seasons and play the position at QB when we graduate a QB. DeMarco fail in to his arms at the start of 2009 fall practice and TH started half way in his freshman season. Whitcomb has had 8 season to try to develop QBs but hasn't. Whitcombs over used quote with TH "we didnt want to fix anything that wasnt broke but there could be improvements" come on coach develop a backup in the meantime. I just dont understand how he profits off these QB camps but hasnt developed a QB for our program. He is just riding the success of TD and TH who he didnt have to develop.

This is absurd. I tried to put it mildly, but cannot come up with anything else.

Thomas DeMarco was a punter that schools had zero interest in playing him at QB except for Div 3 schools. The staff saw him play at College of the Desert and recruited him.

Taylor Heincke came in as a freshman midget weighing 150 pounds that hardly anyone wanted. How did he not develop under our staff? Do you think he was just as good as a freshman (when no one wanted him) as he was when he left (when the NFL wanted him)?

David Washington was a backup FCS QB (behind a star) that moved to WR and is now playing FBS football as a starting QB. How did he not develop? Could he have played as a freshman at the FBS level?

The book has not been written on the other possible QBs on our roster that are either Freshman or Sophomores.

Thomas DeMarco was a QB recruited to ODU. TD was at the College of the Desert passed for 1,792 yards with 14 passing touchdowns also rushed for eight touchdowns. DeMarco was recruited out of high school as a punter but left his D1 school in CA (SDSU) to go the junior college rout to be a QB.

Thomas DeMarco showed up on ODU campus in the summer of 2009 and beat out Cooper, Reamon and one other to be the QB. You call 4 weeks fall practice development?

Whitcomb put stock in to Blackman before he walked out a month before signing TH and Ong

TH was unknown and not expected to play as a freshman. How much time did Whitcomb put in to TH before UMass 2011? They had DeMarco and Ong. Whitcomb has stated he didnt want to change any of TH flaws in fear it would affect his play.

DW has moved positions around so much he hasn't had time to develop as a true QB.

Name a QB who has been developed and seceded at ODU? Most have walked

Development is bring in a guy and learning the system and waiting his turn. Not a player who shows up in fall practice weeks before the start of the season and is already a starter

(09-14-2016 08:17 AM)AimHigh Wrote:  

(09-14-2016 12:47 AM)Sirloin Burger Wrote:  It's been my long time belief that coaching is overrated. It's the players that make the difference,

Making critical stops on third down.

Catching the ball in the end zone with a defender in your face.

Making a catch for a TD without committing a personal foul,

Not letting a receiver get open for a long gain.

Being able to kick 30 yard field goals.

Winning those battles could have tilted the scales in our favor. Instead, the players let the coaches down.

I beg to differ. Coaches can make a world of difference in high school and college, maybe not so much in the major league sports. I have been around great coaches and bad coaches. Seen great coaches turn below avg. players in to All Americans and seen bad coaches ruin All Americans in many sports.

Sure, you'll find a feel good story every now and then but that has more to do with the players own motivation. I seldom hear stories of coaches destroying the careers of top prospects. When players transfer, I rarely hear them indict their former coach or players.

So let's get back to the play on the field. Critical errors made by players cost ODU a win or a respectable finish last Saturday. Coaches don''t drop catchable balls, don't commit personal fouls, don't blow assignments, players do.

I'm not saying that coaches are infallible, I'm saying player performance should hold more weight.

(09-14-2016 12:02 PM)AimHigh Wrote:  

(09-14-2016 11:42 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(09-14-2016 10:57 AM)AimHigh Wrote:  I also want to add Whitcomb (1 of 4 coaches from Maine) in 8 season hasn't developed 1 QB yet. When I state developed I mean someone ODU recruited to ride the pine for a few seasons and play the position at QB when we graduate a QB. DeMarco fail in to his arms at the start of 2009 fall practice and TH started half way in his freshman season. Whitcomb has had 8 season to try to develop QBs but hasn't. Whitcombs over used quote with TH "we didnt want to fix anything that wasnt broke but there could be improvements" come on coach develop a backup in the meantime. I just dont understand how he profits off these QB camps but hasnt developed a QB for our program. He is just riding the success of TD and TH who he didnt have to develop.

This is absurd. I tried to put it mildly, but cannot come up with anything else.

Thomas DeMarco was a punter that schools had zero interest in playing him at QB except for Div 3 schools. The staff saw him play at College of the Desert and recruited him.

Taylor Heincke came in as a freshman midget weighing 150 pounds that hardly anyone wanted. How did he not develop under our staff? Do you think he was just as good as a freshman (when no one wanted him) as he was when he left (when the NFL wanted him)?

David Washington was a backup FCS QB (behind a star) that moved to WR and is now playing FBS football as a starting QB. How did he not develop? Could he have played as a freshman at the FBS level?

The book has not been written on the other possible QBs on our roster that are either Freshman or Sophomores.

Thomas DeMarco was a QB recruited to ODU. TD was at the College of the Desert passed for 1,792 yards with 14 passing touchdowns also rushed for eight touchdowns. DeMarco was recruited out of high school as a punter but left his D1 school in CA (SDSU) to go the junior college rout to be a QB.

Thomas DeMarco showed up on ODU campus in the summer of 2009 and beat out Cooper, Reamon and one other to be the QB. You call 4 weeks fall practice development?

Whitcomb put stock in to Blackman before he walked out a month before signing TH and Ong

TH was unknown and not expected to play as a freshman. How much time did Whitcomb put in to TH before UMass 2011? They had DeMarco and Ong. Whitcomb has stated he didnt want to change any of TH flaws in fear it would affect his play.

DW has moved positions around so much he hasn't had time to develop as a true QB.

Name a QB who has been developed and seceded at ODU? Most have walked

Development is bring in a guy and learning the system and waiting his turn. Not a player who shows up in fall practice weeks before the start of the season and is already a starter

Our issue is that we were blessed with great QB play for 6 years and DW switched positions during some of the key years that would have helped him develop more as a backup QB ready to fill-in after Taylor left. He only switched back because Bentley was not the guy we thought he was after one year of "development."I don't want to sound like a Whitcomb apologist but we don't really have much history to base much off of... at least that is my thought on it

(09-14-2016 12:09 PM)Sirloin Burger Wrote:  

(09-14-2016 08:17 AM)AimHigh Wrote:  

(09-14-2016 12:47 AM)Sirloin Burger Wrote:  It's been my long time belief that coaching is overrated. It's the players that make the difference,

Making critical stops on third down.

Catching the ball in the end zone with a defender in your face.

Making a catch for a TD without committing a personal foul,

Not letting a receiver get open for a long gain.

Being able to kick 30 yard field goals.

Winning those battles could have tilted the scales in our favor. Instead, the players let the coaches down.

I beg to differ. Coaches can make a world of difference in high school and college, maybe not so much in the major league sports. I have been around great coaches and bad coaches. Seen great coaches turn below avg. players in to All Americans and seen bad coaches ruin All Americans in many sports.

Sure, you'll find a feel good story every now and then but that has more to do with the players own motivation. I seldom hear stories of coaches destroying the careers of top prospects. When players transfer, I rarely hear them indict their former coach or players.

So let's get back to the play on the field. Critical errors made by players cost ODU a win or a respectable finish last Saturday. Coaches don''t drop catchable balls, don't commit personal fouls, don't blow assignments, players do.

I'm not saying that coaches are infallible, I'm saying player performance should hold more weight.

Those players are recruited and prepped by coaches. Taught what to do and what not to do in certain situations. When not taught properly, the problems listed above, take place.

(09-14-2016 12:15 PM)757ODU Wrote:  

(09-14-2016 12:09 PM)Sirloin Burger Wrote:  

(09-14-2016 08:17 AM)AimHigh Wrote:  

(09-14-2016 12:47 AM)Sirloin Burger Wrote:  It's been my long time belief that coaching is overrated. It's the players that make the difference,

Making critical stops on third down.

Catching the ball in the end zone with a defender in your face.

Making a catch for a TD without committing a personal foul,

Not letting a receiver get open for a long gain.

Being able to kick 30 yard field goals.

Winning those battles could have tilted the scales in our favor. Instead, the players let the coaches down.

I beg to differ. Coaches can make a world of difference in high school and college, maybe not so much in the major league sports. I have been around great coaches and bad coaches. Seen great coaches turn below avg. players in to All Americans and seen bad coaches ruin All Americans in many sports.

Sure, you'll find a feel good story every now and then but that has more to do with the players own motivation. I seldom hear stories of coaches destroying the careers of top prospects. When players transfer, I rarely hear them indict their former coach or players.

So let's get back to the play on the field. Critical errors made by players cost ODU a win or a respectable finish last Saturday. Coaches don''t drop catchable balls, don't commit personal fouls, don't blow assignments, players do.

I'm not saying that coaches are infallible, I'm saying player performance should hold more weight.

Those players are recruited and prepped by coaches. Taught what to do and what not to do in certain situations. When not taught properly, the problems listed above, take place.

So the coaches didn't teach our receivers how to catch a football? Did they not teach them the rules of the game or how to properly kick a 30 yard field goal?

Sure, coaches can call the wrong defense or a questionable offensive play but player skill was the factor last Saturday.