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Report: Art Briles out at Baylor
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RiceLad15 Offline
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Post: #181
RE: Report: Art Briles out at Baylor
(08-03-2016 02:05 PM)ranfin Wrote:  
(08-03-2016 01:53 PM)Afflicted Wrote:  
(08-03-2016 01:35 PM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  
(08-03-2016 12:56 PM)Afflicted Wrote:  I'm not trying to get carried away here, but I have a feeling that Baylor is in for a rough season. I'm not saying they'll have losing record, but I wouldn't be surprised to see them fall off. So much is going on with them and their players are dropping like flies. I'm also not confident in Grobe. I don't think he has a handle on things. He reminds of a guy who's going 40 mph on a 70 mph road. Everything must be swirling. It doesn't look like a good situation.

So they go 6-6 and go to a minor bowl. What's wrong with that? A successful season, right?

For a school in the B12, playing in a brand new stadium, who pays it's coaches millions of dollars, and who is usually ranked in the top 10?
Very funny.

Yes, schools which have performed at a very high level should be expected to continue performing at a very high level. Schools which have performed at a mediocre level should be expected to continue performing at a mediocre level. Makes perfect sense!

Why does it make more sense to expect schools to perform above or below their historical average? Not sure I get your comment about expectations being different from historical norms unless you're talking about goals and not realistic expectations.
08-03-2016 02:26 PM
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ranfin Offline
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Post: #182
RE: Report: Art Briles out at Baylor
(08-03-2016 02:26 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(08-03-2016 02:05 PM)ranfin Wrote:  
(08-03-2016 01:53 PM)Afflicted Wrote:  
(08-03-2016 01:35 PM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  
(08-03-2016 12:56 PM)Afflicted Wrote:  I'm not trying to get carried away here, but I have a feeling that Baylor is in for a rough season. I'm not saying they'll have losing record, but I wouldn't be surprised to see them fall off. So much is going on with them and their players are dropping like flies. I'm also not confident in Grobe. I don't think he has a handle on things. He reminds of a guy who's going 40 mph on a 70 mph road. Everything must be swirling. It doesn't look like a good situation.

So they go 6-6 and go to a minor bowl. What's wrong with that? A successful season, right?

For a school in the B12, playing in a brand new stadium, who pays it's coaches millions of dollars, and who is usually ranked in the top 10?
Very funny.

Yes, schools which have performed at a very high level should be expected to continue performing at a very high level. Schools which have performed at a mediocre level should be expected to continue performing at a mediocre level. Makes perfect sense!

Why does it make more sense to expect schools to perform above or below their historical average? Not sure I get your comment about expectations being different from historical norms unless you're talking about goals and not realistic expectations.

The point I was attempting to make, with sarcasm, is that it doesn't make sense to expect continued mediocre performance from teams which have a mediocre performance history.....unless you're satisfied with mediocrity. Afflicted seems to think Baylor should be expected to do great because it has been great. He seems to be okay with Rice being mediocre, at least what I call mediocre, because it has been historically mediocre or because it is not capable of more. If I understand Afflicted, he thinks Rice's performance has been pretty darned good, all things considered. I disagree.
(This post was last modified: 08-03-2016 02:48 PM by ranfin.)
08-03-2016 02:41 PM
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RiceLad15 Offline
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Post: #183
RE: Report: Art Briles out at Baylor
(08-03-2016 02:41 PM)ranfin Wrote:  
(08-03-2016 02:26 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(08-03-2016 02:05 PM)ranfin Wrote:  
(08-03-2016 01:53 PM)Afflicted Wrote:  
(08-03-2016 01:35 PM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  So they go 6-6 and go to a minor bowl. What's wrong with that? A successful season, right?

For a school in the B12, playing in a brand new stadium, who pays it's coaches millions of dollars, and who is usually ranked in the top 10?
Very funny.

Yes, schools which have performed at a very high level should be expected to continue performing at a very high level. Schools which have performed at a mediocre level should be expected to continue performing at a mediocre level. Makes perfect sense!

Why does it make more sense to expect schools to perform above or below their historical average? Not sure I get your comment about expectations being different from historical norms unless you're talking about goals and not realistic expectations.

The point I was attempting to make is that it doesn't make sense to expect continued mediocre performance from teams which have a mediocre performance history.....unless you're satisfied with mediocrity

But that's the thing, realistically shouldn't that be the expectation, unless there is some obvious adjustment that would spur change? All things want to be steady, so without a significant adjustment, it's unrealistic to expect anything different.

Which is what I was getting at. It doesn't make sense for a historically mediocre team to set their goals to be historically mediocre, but they are probably historically mediocre for a reason, so why realistically expect that to change?
08-03-2016 02:46 PM
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ranfin Offline
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Post: #184
RE: Report: Art Briles out at Baylor
(08-03-2016 02:46 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(08-03-2016 02:41 PM)ranfin Wrote:  
(08-03-2016 02:26 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(08-03-2016 02:05 PM)ranfin Wrote:  
(08-03-2016 01:53 PM)Afflicted Wrote:  For a school in the B12, playing in a brand new stadium, who pays it's coaches millions of dollars, and who is usually ranked in the top 10?
Very funny.

Yes, schools which have performed at a very high level should be expected to continue performing at a very high level. Schools which have performed at a mediocre level should be expected to continue performing at a mediocre level. Makes perfect sense!

Why does it make more sense to expect schools to perform above or below their historical average? Not sure I get your comment about expectations being different from historical norms unless you're talking about goals and not realistic expectations.

The point I was attempting to make is that it doesn't make sense to expect continued mediocre performance from teams which have a mediocre performance history.....unless you're satisfied with mediocrity

But that's the thing, realistically shouldn't that be the expectation, unless there is some obvious adjustment that would spur change? All things want to be steady, so without a significant adjustment, it's unrealistic to expect anything different.

Which is what I was getting at. It doesn't make sense for a historically mediocre team to set their goals to be historically mediocre, but they are probably historically mediocre for a reason, so why realistically expect that to change?
You mean an obvious adjustment like changing coaches?
08-03-2016 02:51 PM
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RiceLad15 Offline
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Post: #185
RE: Report: Art Briles out at Baylor
(08-03-2016 02:51 PM)ranfin Wrote:  
(08-03-2016 02:46 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(08-03-2016 02:41 PM)ranfin Wrote:  
(08-03-2016 02:26 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  
(08-03-2016 02:05 PM)ranfin Wrote:  Yes, schools which have performed at a very high level should be expected to continue performing at a very high level. Schools which have performed at a mediocre level should be expected to continue performing at a mediocre level. Makes perfect sense!

Why does it make more sense to expect schools to perform above or below their historical average? Not sure I get your comment about expectations being different from historical norms unless you're talking about goals and not realistic expectations.

The point I was attempting to make is that it doesn't make sense to expect continued mediocre performance from teams which have a mediocre performance history.....unless you're satisfied with mediocrity

But that's the thing, realistically shouldn't that be the expectation, unless there is some obvious adjustment that would spur change? All things want to be steady, so without a significant adjustment, it's unrealistic to expect anything different.

Which is what I was getting at. It doesn't make sense for a historically mediocre team to set their goals to be historically mediocre, but they are probably historically mediocre for a reason, so why realistically expect that to change?
You mean an obvious adjustment like changing coaches?

To me, it's more than that. When TCU hired Patterson, the realistic expectation wasn't that they would end up in the Big 12 like they are now. They had to do a number of things to get to the level where it wasn't expected that they slip back down.

Coaching change can be part of changing expectations. Facilities upgrade can be part of it. New administration can be part of it. To truly change the realistic expectations at a place like Rice, where football mediocrity is in our blood at this point, you need to change the entire culture. At this point, I do think coaching change is the only thing holding us back. So if you're talking about Rice, when DB goes, I think you'll see the realistic expectations start to creep up because of the foundation him and JK had laid.

But if we're talking about generalities, like I thought we were, it makes the most sense to assume a mediocre team one year will be a mediocre team next year. There's a reason that not every G5 program become Boise St.
08-03-2016 02:57 PM
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Post: #186
RE: Report: Art Briles out at Baylor
I thought the entire purpose of hiring JK (and to a lesser degree, having BT as chairman... not that Bobby is 'lesser', but that athletics isn't BT's 'job') was to help make such changes. I mean when the 50ish year old Chairman of the Board puts his money into an Athletics building, I think it rather obvious that he doesn't intend for athletics to go away.

There's an old joke about how you make $1mm. First, start with $1mm.... I still think admitting that athletics (in one form or another) is going to be part of Rice University 'forever' and designating say $250mm of the endowment for what can loosely be defined as 'athletics' (including not only D1 participation, but down to the rec center and bike baths and the jogging loop around the University or even 'virtual' sports) and marketing that as a commitment to 'athletics' that can be added to/expanded upon as a specific part of the University (kicking off say 12.5mm/yr in operating/scholarship revenue... we currently allocate probably closer to $30mm on such operations and of course, in 20 years... '30mm' will be what $12.5mm is today)... but it serves as a marketing tool and a 'magnet' for the specific support of athletics in perpetuity, which ends the debate about rice participating in college athletics... though still leaving the question for future generations or as things change of how you define athletics. I still think that is an important, albeit somewhat symbolic gesture.

As to the DB debate... I think that even his most ardent supporters would admit that the goal is improvement and that in order to keep his job, he has to show relatively consistent improvement. We can debate how you define that or what it looks like... but we really shouldn't disagree that we didn't hire him or any of his assistants to be caretakers of the program. Honestly, that's all the debate is about... how we each define improvement.

The issue for me is that we've witnessed up close and personal a number of schools going from FCS to FBS and having some success in relatively short order. That comes from setting high expectations, not from looking for new ways to define 'high' after the fact. I don't know specifically what expectations were set for DB when he signed his most recent contract, but the words both he and JK used had to do with top 25 teams... either being one, or beating one.
08-03-2016 03:59 PM
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Post: #187
RE: Report: Art Briles out at Baylor
(08-03-2016 02:22 PM)Afflicted Wrote:  
(08-03-2016 02:05 PM)ranfin Wrote:  
(08-03-2016 01:53 PM)Afflicted Wrote:  
(08-03-2016 01:35 PM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  
(08-03-2016 12:56 PM)Afflicted Wrote:  I'm not trying to get carried away here, but I have a feeling that Baylor is in for a rough season. I'm not saying they'll have losing record, but I wouldn't be surprised to see them fall off. So much is going on with them and their players are dropping like flies. I'm also not confident in Grobe. I don't think he has a handle on things. He reminds of a guy who's going 40 mph on a 70 mph road. Everything must be swirling. It doesn't look like a good situation.

So they go 6-6 and go to a minor bowl. What's wrong with that? A successful season, right?

For a school in the B12, playing in a brand new stadium, who pays it's coaches millions of dollars, and who is usually ranked in the top 10?
Very funny.

Yes, schools which have performed at a very high level should be expected to continue performing at a very high level. Schools which have performed at a mediocre level should be expected to continue performing at a mediocre level. Makes perfect sense!

Yeah, until Rice makes even half the investment of Baylor, we'll be performing at what you describe as a mediocre level, and understandably so.

Baylor's investment was bolstered by the revenues they received by being a member of the B12. If by your measure "investments means success" then how do you explain their lack of success during the first 12 years in the B12? They won a total of 11 B12 games in that period and went without a win in 4 of those years including the year before they hired Briles.
08-03-2016 04:10 PM
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Post: #188
RE: Report: Art Briles out at Baylor
(08-03-2016 04:10 PM)Tiki Owl Wrote:  Baylor's investment was bolstered by the revenues they received by being a member of the B12. If by your measure "investments means success" then how do you explain their lack of success during the first 12 years in the B12? They won a total of 11 B12 games in that period and went without a win in 4 of those years including the year before they hired Briles.

They were trying to play by the rules???
08-03-2016 07:11 PM
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Antarius Offline
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Post: #189
RE: Report: Art Briles out at Baylor
(08-03-2016 07:11 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(08-03-2016 04:10 PM)Tiki Owl Wrote:  Baylor's investment was bolstered by the revenues they received by being a member of the B12. If by your measure "investments means success" then how do you explain their lack of success during the first 12 years in the B12? They won a total of 11 B12 games in that period and went without a win in 4 of those years including the year before they hired Briles.

They were trying to play by the rules???

David Bliss and those shenanigans occurred before Briles. Somehow I doubt they were rule abiding then either.
08-04-2016 02:37 AM
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OldOwl Offline
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Post: #190
RE: Report: Art Briles out at Baylor
Any chance we could bring Briles in as a consultant for the offense?
08-04-2016 08:59 AM
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Post: #191
RE: Report: Art Briles out at Baylor
(08-03-2016 04:10 PM)Tiki Owl Wrote:  
(08-03-2016 02:22 PM)Afflicted Wrote:  
(08-03-2016 02:05 PM)ranfin Wrote:  
(08-03-2016 01:53 PM)Afflicted Wrote:  
(08-03-2016 01:35 PM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  So they go 6-6 and go to a minor bowl. What's wrong with that? A successful season, right?

For a school in the B12, playing in a brand new stadium, who pays it's coaches millions of dollars, and who is usually ranked in the top 10?
Very funny.

Yes, schools which have performed at a very high level should be expected to continue performing at a very high level. Schools which have performed at a mediocre level should be expected to continue performing at a mediocre level. Makes perfect sense!

Yeah, until Rice makes even half the investment of Baylor, we'll be performing at what you describe as a mediocre level, and understandably so.

Baylor's investment was bolstered by the revenues they received by being a member of the B12. If by your measure "investments means success" then how do you explain their lack of success during the first 12 years in the B12? They won a total of 11 B12 games in that period and went without a win in 4 of those years including the year before they hired Briles.

Art Briles
Robert Griffin
Drayton McClain
Exceptional athletes
Unexceptional character
03-puke

That's what turned it around for Baylor.
(This post was last modified: 08-04-2016 09:14 AM by Afflicted.)
08-04-2016 09:09 AM
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Antarius Offline
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Post: #192
RE: Report: Art Briles out at Baylor
(08-04-2016 08:59 AM)OldOwl Wrote:  Any chance we could bring Briles in as a consultant for the offense?

I hope thats a joke.
08-04-2016 10:48 AM
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OptimisticOwl Offline
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Post: #193
RE: Report: Art Briles out at Baylor
(08-04-2016 10:48 AM)Antarius Wrote:  
(08-04-2016 08:59 AM)OldOwl Wrote:  Any chance we could bring Briles in as a consultant for the offense?

I hope thats a joke.

He checks every box:

Signature wins: check
Top50 wins: check
Took team to top 10: check
winning records: check
recruits well: check
teams are motivated: check
teams are prepared: check
not fat: check
doesn't use coach speak: maybe
runs a clean program: nope
cares about academics: nope.

Ok, 2.5 boxes not checked.

I predict, if he is a candidate in December, he will have a lot of support here. JMHO.
08-04-2016 12:22 PM
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Frizzy Owl Online
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Post: #194
RE: Report: Art Briles out at Baylor
(08-04-2016 12:22 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(08-04-2016 10:48 AM)Antarius Wrote:  
(08-04-2016 08:59 AM)OldOwl Wrote:  Any chance we could bring Briles in as a consultant for the offense?

I hope thats a joke.

He checks every box:

Signature wins: check
Top50 wins: check
Took team to top 10: check
winning records: check
recruits well: check
teams are motivated: check
teams are prepared: check
not fat: check
doesn't use coach speak: maybe
runs a clean program: nope
cares about academics: nope.

Ok, 2.5 boxes not checked.

I predict, if he is a candidate in December, he will have a lot of support here. JMHO.
03-yawn
08-04-2016 12:31 PM
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OptimisticOwl Offline
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Post: #195
RE: Report: Art Briles out at Baylor
(08-04-2016 12:31 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  
(08-04-2016 12:22 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(08-04-2016 10:48 AM)Antarius Wrote:  
(08-04-2016 08:59 AM)OldOwl Wrote:  Any chance we could bring Briles in as a consultant for the offense?

I hope thats a joke.

He checks every box:

Signature wins: check
Top50 wins: check
Took team to top 10: check
winning records: check
recruits well: check
teams are motivated: check
teams are prepared: check
not fat: check
doesn't use coach speak: maybe
runs a clean program: nope
cares about academics: nope.

Ok, 2.5 boxes not checked.

I predict, if he is a candidate in December, he will have a lot of support here. JMHO.
03-yawn

In a year with Trump and Hillary, you underestimate the ability of people to see what they want to see and believe what they want to believe. I doubt he is a candidate. If he is, though, he will have his supporters.
08-04-2016 12:34 PM
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ExcitedOwl18 Online
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Post: #196
RE: Report: Art Briles out at Baylor
(08-04-2016 12:31 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  
(08-04-2016 12:22 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(08-04-2016 10:48 AM)Antarius Wrote:  
(08-04-2016 08:59 AM)OldOwl Wrote:  Any chance we could bring Briles in as a consultant for the offense?

I hope thats a joke.

He checks every box:

Signature wins: check
Top50 wins: check
Took team to top 10: check
winning records: check
recruits well: check
teams are motivated: check
teams are prepared: check
not fat: check
doesn't use coach speak: maybe
runs a clean program: nope
cares about academics: nope.

Ok, 2.5 boxes not checked.

I predict, if he is a candidate in December, he will have a lot of support here. JMHO.
03-yawn

Baylor actually has/had a pretty good APR under Briles.
08-04-2016 12:34 PM
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Antarius Offline
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Post: #197
RE: Report: Art Briles out at Baylor
(08-04-2016 12:34 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  
(08-04-2016 12:31 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  
(08-04-2016 12:22 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(08-04-2016 10:48 AM)Antarius Wrote:  
(08-04-2016 08:59 AM)OldOwl Wrote:  Any chance we could bring Briles in as a consultant for the offense?

I hope thats a joke.

He checks every box:

Signature wins: check
Top50 wins: check
Took team to top 10: check
winning records: check
recruits well: check
teams are motivated: check
teams are prepared: check
not fat: check
doesn't use coach speak: maybe
runs a clean program: nope
cares about academics: nope.

Ok, 2.5 boxes not checked.

I predict, if he is a candidate in December, he will have a lot of support here. JMHO.
03-yawn

Baylor actually has/had a pretty good APR under Briles.

Now you're just trolling. trying to start an argument.

No one here (save for OldOwl above) has even remotely come close to suggesting we hire Briles.
08-04-2016 12:38 PM
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ExcitedOwl18 Online
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Post: #198
RE: Report: Art Briles out at Baylor
(08-04-2016 12:38 PM)Antarius Wrote:  
(08-04-2016 12:34 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  
(08-04-2016 12:31 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  
(08-04-2016 12:22 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  
(08-04-2016 10:48 AM)Antarius Wrote:  I hope thats a joke.

He checks every box:

Signature wins: check
Top50 wins: check
Took team to top 10: check
winning records: check
recruits well: check
teams are motivated: check
teams are prepared: check
not fat: check
doesn't use coach speak: maybe
runs a clean program: nope
cares about academics: nope.

Ok, 2.5 boxes not checked.

I predict, if he is a candidate in December, he will have a lot of support here. JMHO.
03-yawn

Baylor actually has/had a pretty good APR under Briles.

Now you're just trolling. trying to start an argument.

No one here (save for OldOwl above) has even remotely come close to suggesting we hire Briles.

No, I would never suggest that we hire Briles. I am just stating that their APR was not far off of ours.
08-04-2016 12:42 PM
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Post: #199
RE: Report: Art Briles out at Baylor
(08-04-2016 12:42 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  
(08-04-2016 12:38 PM)Antarius Wrote:  
(08-04-2016 12:34 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  
(08-04-2016 12:31 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  
(08-04-2016 12:22 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  He checks every box:

Signature wins: check
Top50 wins: check
Took team to top 10: check
winning records: check
recruits well: check
teams are motivated: check
teams are prepared: check
not fat: check
doesn't use coach speak: maybe
runs a clean program: nope
cares about academics: nope.

Ok, 2.5 boxes not checked.

I predict, if he is a candidate in December, he will have a lot of support here. JMHO.
03-yawn

Baylor actually has/had a pretty good APR under Briles.

Now you're just trolling. trying to start an argument.

No one here (save for OldOwl above) has even remotely come close to suggesting we hire Briles.

No, I would never suggest that we hire Briles. I am just stating that their APR was not far off of ours.

A fine example of how meaningless the APR stats are.
08-04-2016 12:43 PM
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OptimisticOwl Offline
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Post: #200
RE: Report: Art Briles out at Baylor
(08-04-2016 12:43 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  
(08-04-2016 12:42 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  
(08-04-2016 12:38 PM)Antarius Wrote:  
(08-04-2016 12:34 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  
(08-04-2016 12:31 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  03-yawn

Baylor actually has/had a pretty good APR under Briles.

Now you're just trolling. trying to start an argument.

No one here (save for OldOwl above) has even remotely come close to suggesting we hire Briles.

No, I would never suggest that we hire Briles. I am just stating that their APR was not far off of ours.

A fine example of how meaningless the APR stats are.

Nor am I suggesting we hire Briles - either one.
08-04-2016 12:45 PM
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