(07-26-2016 09:31 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(07-25-2016 03:02 PM)ecuacc4ever Wrote:  There are only two schools playing D1 football that are not under the umbrella -- one of those has to change its admission policies and kiss enough babies to get the attention of the decision makers.

The other is sitting in the Gulf quietly re-inventing itself -- and this one has quite the history with a few members of the current ACC.

West Virginia and Tulane?

*nods*

Sent from my LG-H810 using Tapatalk

(07-26-2016 09:39 AM)ecuacc4ever Wrote:  

(07-26-2016 09:31 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(07-25-2016 03:02 PM)ecuacc4ever Wrote:  There are only two schools playing D1 football that are not under the umbrella -- one of those has to change its admission policies and kiss enough babies to get the attention of the decision makers.

The other is sitting in the Gulf quietly re-inventing itself -- and this one has quite the history with a few members of the current ACC.

West Virginia and Tulane?

*nods*

Sent from my LG-H810 using Tapatalk

What if Tulane could start a end of the year game with LSU. I would be okay with the addition in that case.

The ACC shouldn't even be considering expansion right now. Got to wait and see what happens with the Big 12. That's a gordion knot to untangle, considering all the interwoven considerations between the schools and their state brethren.

However, if the Big 12 HAS to go, and I don't believe it does, one POSSIBLE option could be the following:

OU, Ok St, Kansas and WVU to the SEC.
TX, TT, TCU and Kansas St to the ACC.

I'm not saying that's likely...but it checks more boxes than any other proposal, IF you can figure out how to make an 18 team conference work.

- 8 votes is enough to disband the Big 12
- Oklahoma and Texas little brothers are protected (state politics)
- KU and MU are renewed as conference rivals
- The following games are added to the ACC/SEC rivalry slate: Red River Rivalry, KU-KSU, WVU-Pitt
- The LHN can stay in the ESPN family in some form
- Texas-Texas A&M can become an occasional secondary ACC/SEC rivalry like UGA-Clemson, UF-UM,
- Texas isn't island-ized, and the ACC is entrenched in Texas
- SEC basketball gets a monster upgrade
- ACC football gets a great upgrade
- All can be done under the auspices of ESPN, and would be a major block on Fox/B1G

Biggest drawbacks:
- How do you schedule an 18-team conference?
- Kansas and the SEC just historically doesn't seem to make sense
- Is there enough value there for the SEC to take four teams, but very little population and only one premier brand? I suppose that's up to how much ESPN would be willing to make it worth.

It's not perfect, but of all the scenarios people float, that seems to be the most logistically feasible.

(07-26-2016 09:31 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(07-25-2016 03:02 PM)ecuacc4ever Wrote:  There are only two schools playing D1 football that are not under the umbrella -- one of those has to change its admission policies and kiss enough babies to get the attention of the decision makers.

The other is sitting in the Gulf quietly re-inventing itself -- and this one has quite the history with a few members of the current ACC.

West Virginia and Tulane?

Wouldn't help with landing Texas as a partial.
If you had WVU why would you need Tulane, they could never pay for themselves and only one school out of the ETZ would create multiple scheduling problems.

(07-24-2016 05:22 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  1. Navy has a perpetual invite. A structure would be found for them. They would need to bring their annual game with ND into the ACC package.

It's not about football, nor sports, nor research academics. It's a about at set of ties that go back to the Navy V12 program and Josephus Daniels. UNC, Duke, and UVa remain tied behind the scenes, as does VT and ND.

Some things are about more than money, even today.

2. UConn does not have a chance in Hell. BC opposes them on an existential basis, the same way MD and UVa opposed West Va. The Southern football schools gain NOTHING from playing them and don't want another game wasted in a recruiting wasteland.

3. West Virginia will have to change it's in-state admissions policies and turn around direct opposition from UVa, Duke, WF, and GT. That opposition is REAL. They cleared one hurdle with MD's departure but MD was not the only hurdle.

Geography works against WVa and UConn. BC, bad as they are, Syracuse, Duke, UNC, and ND all play well in the markets where UConn plays well. Regarding WVa, Pitt, UVa, VT, and Louisville all play in the small WVa markets. With a move to a network that is based in part on footprint, WVa and UConn lose value to the ACC relative to their value for someone else.

Until there is some deregulation regarding divisons, there is no financial reason for the ACC to expand unless Texas comes free or Vandy or Northwestern decide they can not compete in the SEC/B10 and want to make a change. Those are HIGH hurdles.

Cincy is borderline but in truth they are of more value to the B12, even a B12 without Texas, OU, and Kansas. Notre Dame, Pitt, and Louisivlle ooze into Ohio.

G5 schools that add both virgin footprint, an in-bedded rivalry with another P-5, and great academics are Tulane and Houston. If Tulane were to rejoin it's old Southern Conference mates in the ACC, LSU would play them as a P-5 game, beat the **** out them 9 year out of 10 and call it a success. Houston would be able to get games with Texas, TCU, Arkansas, and TT.

For those without good memories, Houston basketball has a history. Yes Tulane sucks, but not everyone need be great because Tulane has New Orleans. To rip off Horace Greeley "Go south ACC".

Cincy is borderline but in truth they are of more value to the B12, even a B12 without Texas, OU, and Kansas. Notre Dame, Pitt, and Louisivlle ooze into Ohio.

Uh,,no,,50 yrs ago ND was a factor,,but not now except for a few offers/recruits.
Pitt is a non factor. Louisville gets a few NKY recruits, but no following.
Cincinnati fans are salivating over the chance to renew BB/FB rivals with Syracuse,
Louisville, and all the other ACC teams/sports Cincinnati has competed with..

(07-26-2016 09:48 AM)Lou_C Wrote:  The ACC shouldn't even be considering expansion right now. Got to wait and see what happens with the Big 12. That's a gordion knot to untangle, considering all the interwoven considerations between the schools and their state brethren.

However, if the Big 12 HAS to go, and I don't believe it does, one POSSIBLE option could be the following:

OU, Ok St, Kansas and WVU to the SEC.
TX, TT, TCU and Kansas St to the ACC.

I'm not saying that's likely...but it checks more boxes than any other proposal, IF you can figure out how to make an 18 team conference work.

- 8 votes is enough to disband the Big 12
- Oklahoma and Texas little brothers are protected (state politics)
- KU and MU are renewed as conference rivals
- The following games are added to the ACC/SEC rivalry slate: Red River Rivalry, KU-KSU, WVU-Pitt
- The LHN can stay in the ESPN family in some form
- Texas-Texas A&M can become an occasional secondary ACC/SEC rivalry like UGA-Clemson, UF-UM,
- Texas isn't island-ized, and the ACC is entrenched in Texas
- SEC basketball gets a monster upgrade
- ACC football gets a great upgrade
- All can be done under the auspices of ESPN, and would be a major block on Fox/B1G

Biggest drawbacks:
- How do you schedule an 18-team conference?
- Kansas and the SEC just historically doesn't seem to make sense
- Is there enough value there for the SEC to take four teams, but very little population and only one premier brand? I suppose that's up to how much ESPN would be willing to make it worth.

It's not perfect, but of all the scenarios people float, that seems to be the most logistically feasible.

If you flipped Kansas and Kansas St.,you might have something Lou_C.

(07-26-2016 09:50 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(07-26-2016 09:31 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(07-25-2016 03:02 PM)ecuacc4ever Wrote:  There are only two schools playing D1 football that are not under the umbrella -- one of those has to change its admission policies and kiss enough babies to get the attention of the decision makers.

The other is sitting in the Gulf quietly re-inventing itself -- and this one has quite the history with a few members of the current ACC.

West Virginia and Tulane?

Wouldn't help with landing Texas as a partial.
If you had WVU why would you need Tulane, they could never pay for themselves and only one school out of the ETZ would create multiple scheduling problems.

I was just wondering if he was talking about WVU. Tulane I understood.

Although, if those two were added we could have nice year end match-ups in Pitt vs. WVU and Miami vs. Tulane.

(07-26-2016 11:14 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(07-26-2016 09:48 AM)Lou_C Wrote:  The ACC shouldn't even be considering expansion right now. Got to wait and see what happens with the Big 12. That's a gordion knot to untangle, considering all the interwoven considerations between the schools and their state brethren.

However, if the Big 12 HAS to go, and I don't believe it does, one POSSIBLE option could be the following:

OU, Ok St, Kansas and WVU to the SEC.
TX, TT, TCU and Kansas St to the ACC.

I'm not saying that's likely...but it checks more boxes than any other proposal, IF you can figure out how to make an 18 team conference work.

- 8 votes is enough to disband the Big 12
- Oklahoma and Texas little brothers are protected (state politics)
- KU and MU are renewed as conference rivals
- The following games are added to the ACC/SEC rivalry slate: Red River Rivalry, KU-KSU, WVU-Pitt
- The LHN can stay in the ESPN family in some form
- Texas-Texas A&M can become an occasional secondary ACC/SEC rivalry like UGA-Clemson, UF-UM,
- Texas isn't island-ized, and the ACC is entrenched in Texas
- SEC basketball gets a monster upgrade
- ACC football gets a great upgrade
- All can be done under the auspices of ESPN, and would be a major block on Fox/B1G

Biggest drawbacks:
- How do you schedule an 18-team conference?
- Kansas and the SEC just historically doesn't seem to make sense
- Is there enough value there for the SEC to take four teams, but very little population and only one premier brand? I suppose that's up to how much ESPN would be willing to make it worth.

It's not perfect, but of all the scenarios people float, that seems to be the most logistically feasible.

If you flipped Kansas and Kansas St.,you might have something Lou_C.

The SEC has to get something of value... like Kansas basketball.
Personally, I'd like to trade Texas Tech to the SEC for Oklahoma State.

(07-26-2016 11:21 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(07-26-2016 11:14 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(07-26-2016 09:48 AM)Lou_C Wrote:  The ACC shouldn't even be considering expansion right now. Got to wait and see what happens with the Big 12. That's a gordion knot to untangle, considering all the interwoven considerations between the schools and their state brethren.

However, if the Big 12 HAS to go, and I don't believe it does, one POSSIBLE option could be the following:

OU, Ok St, Kansas and WVU to the SEC.
TX, TT, TCU and Kansas St to the ACC.

I'm not saying that's likely...but it checks more boxes than any other proposal, IF you can figure out how to make an 18 team conference work.

- 8 votes is enough to disband the Big 12
- Oklahoma and Texas little brothers are protected (state politics)
- KU and MU are renewed as conference rivals
- The following games are added to the ACC/SEC rivalry slate: Red River Rivalry, KU-KSU, WVU-Pitt
- The LHN can stay in the ESPN family in some form
- Texas-Texas A&M can become an occasional secondary ACC/SEC rivalry like UGA-Clemson, UF-UM,
- Texas isn't island-ized, and the ACC is entrenched in Texas
- SEC basketball gets a monster upgrade
- ACC football gets a great upgrade
- All can be done under the auspices of ESPN, and would be a major block on Fox/B1G

Biggest drawbacks:
- How do you schedule an 18-team conference?
- Kansas and the SEC just historically doesn't seem to make sense
- Is there enough value there for the SEC to take four teams, but very little population and only one premier brand? I suppose that's up to how much ESPN would be willing to make it worth.

It's not perfect, but of all the scenarios people float, that seems to be the most logistically feasible.

If you flipped Kansas and Kansas St.,you might have something Lou_C.

The SEC has to get something of value... like Kansas basketball.
Personally, I'd like to trade Texas Tech to the SEC for Oklahoma State.

Mark, the SEC wouldn't know what to do with Kansas basketball. Besides, Dodds had made the statement that Texas wanted to stay close to Kansas. I would imagine that is still true.
All of the value in the Big 12 is in Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas and West Virginia, it's only fair to divide those 4 in half.

(07-26-2016 09:48 AM)Lou_C Wrote:  The ACC shouldn't even be considering expansion right now. Got to wait and see what happens with the Big 12. That's a gordion knot to untangle, considering all the interwoven considerations between the schools and their state brethren.

However, if the Big 12 HAS to go, and I don't believe it does, one POSSIBLE option could be the following:

OU, Ok St, Kansas and WVU to the SEC.
TX, TT, TCU and Kansas St to the ACC.

I'm not saying that's likely...but it checks more boxes than any other proposal, IF you can figure out how to make an 18 team conference work.

- 8 votes is enough to disband the Big 12
- Oklahoma and Texas little brothers are protected (state politics)
- KU and MU are renewed as conference rivals
- The following games are added to the ACC/SEC rivalry slate: Red River Rivalry, KU-KSU, WVU-Pitt
- The LHN can stay in the ESPN family in some form
- Texas-Texas A&M can become an occasional secondary ACC/SEC rivalry like UGA-Clemson, UF-UM,
- Texas isn't island-ized, and the ACC is entrenched in Texas
- SEC basketball gets a monster upgrade
- ACC football gets a great upgrade
- All can be done under the auspices of ESPN, and would be a major block on Fox/B1G

Biggest drawbacks:
- How do you schedule an 18-team conference?
- Kansas and the SEC just historically doesn't seem to make sense
- Is there enough value there for the SEC to take four teams, but very little population and only one premier brand? I suppose that's up to how much ESPN would be willing to make it worth.

It's not perfect, but of all the scenarios people float, that seems to be the most logistically feasible.

For the ACC, which also has to fit in OOC games against Notre Dame, it's damn near impossible. Especially when you add the ACC-SEC rivalry games. Something would have to give.

If you only have an 8 game league schedule, in order to accommodate OOC rivals and seven home games, then you have to lose some long time rivalries. In effect, you would be creating two separate 9 team conferences that would rarely play each other outside the CCG.

If you have a 9 game league schedule, you still only get teams from the other division once every nine years. Why bother? Especially if that means an FSU would sometimes have to choose between playing Florida or having another home game. I think the home game loses that battle, just as it would for Clemson-South Carolina.

16 teams is hard enough, and I hope we don't ever get forced into that. To me, it's worth it for one P5 conference to get left out of the CFP occasionally in order to keep the Big XII viable.

(07-26-2016 11:21 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(07-26-2016 11:14 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(07-26-2016 09:48 AM)Lou_C Wrote:  The ACC shouldn't even be considering expansion right now. Got to wait and see what happens with the Big 12. That's a gordion knot to untangle, considering all the interwoven considerations between the schools and their state brethren.

However, if the Big 12 HAS to go, and I don't believe it does, one POSSIBLE option could be the following:

OU, Ok St, Kansas and WVU to the SEC.
TX, TT, TCU and Kansas St to the ACC.

I'm not saying that's likely...but it checks more boxes than any other proposal, IF you can figure out how to make an 18 team conference work.

- 8 votes is enough to disband the Big 12
- Oklahoma and Texas little brothers are protected (state politics)
- KU and MU are renewed as conference rivals
- The following games are added to the ACC/SEC rivalry slate: Red River Rivalry, KU-KSU, WVU-Pitt
- The LHN can stay in the ESPN family in some form
- Texas-Texas A&M can become an occasional secondary ACC/SEC rivalry like UGA-Clemson, UF-UM,
- Texas isn't island-ized, and the ACC is entrenched in Texas
- SEC basketball gets a monster upgrade
- ACC football gets a great upgrade
- All can be done under the auspices of ESPN, and would be a major block on Fox/B1G

Biggest drawbacks:
- How do you schedule an 18-team conference?
- Kansas and the SEC just historically doesn't seem to make sense
- Is there enough value there for the SEC to take four teams, but very little population and only one premier brand? I suppose that's up to how much ESPN would be willing to make it worth.

It's not perfect, but of all the scenarios people float, that seems to be the most logistically feasible.

If you flipped Kansas and Kansas St.,you might have something Lou_C.

The SEC has to get something of value... like Kansas basketball.
Personally, I'd like to trade Texas Tech to the SEC for Oklahoma State.

My thinking exactly. The SEC needs KU basketball to approach value in that.

And I would be happy to have OSU over TT, but OU needs one of it's two rivals in conference to make it work.

I see no value in Texas Tech or Kansas State for the ACC.

(07-26-2016 07:47 PM)WakeForestRanger Wrote:  I see no value in Texas Tech or Kansas State for the ACC.

That's only because you have 20/20 vision.

(07-26-2016 01:42 PM)Lou_C Wrote:  

(07-26-2016 11:21 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(07-26-2016 11:14 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(07-26-2016 09:48 AM)Lou_C Wrote:  The ACC shouldn't even be considering expansion right now. Got to wait and see what happens with the Big 12. That's a gordion knot to untangle, considering all the interwoven considerations between the schools and their state brethren.

However, if the Big 12 HAS to go, and I don't believe it does, one POSSIBLE option could be the following:

OU, Ok St, Kansas and WVU to the SEC.
TX, TT, TCU and Kansas St to the ACC.

I'm not saying that's likely...but it checks more boxes than any other proposal, IF you can figure out how to make an 18 team conference work.

- 8 votes is enough to disband the Big 12
- Oklahoma and Texas little brothers are protected (state politics)
- KU and MU are renewed as conference rivals
- The following games are added to the ACC/SEC rivalry slate: Red River Rivalry, KU-KSU, WVU-Pitt
- The LHN can stay in the ESPN family in some form
- Texas-Texas A&M can become an occasional secondary ACC/SEC rivalry like UGA-Clemson, UF-UM,
- Texas isn't island-ized, and the ACC is entrenched in Texas
- SEC basketball gets a monster upgrade
- ACC football gets a great upgrade
- All can be done under the auspices of ESPN, and would be a major block on Fox/B1G

Biggest drawbacks:
- How do you schedule an 18-team conference?
- Kansas and the SEC just historically doesn't seem to make sense
- Is there enough value there for the SEC to take four teams, but very little population and only one premier brand? I suppose that's up to how much ESPN would be willing to make it worth.

It's not perfect, but of all the scenarios people float, that seems to be the most logistically feasible.

If you flipped Kansas and Kansas St.,you might have something Lou_C.

The SEC has to get something of value... like Kansas basketball.
Personally, I'd like to trade Texas Tech to the SEC for Oklahoma State.

My thinking exactly. The SEC needs KU basketball to approach value in that.

And I would be happy to have OSU over TT, but OU needs one of it's two rivals in conference to make it work.

Culturally, Kansas to the SEC would be difficult for historical reasons. Bear with me, this really matters. Before the Civil War, Kansas was known as "bleeding Kansas" because it was where pro and anti slavery forces fought it out, not with mere words but with guns. Think this no longer matters? If you look at Kansas message boards they regularly refer to Missouri as "slavers" because it was a slave state before the Civil War and the slave forces who engaged in violent attacks in Kansas came from Missouri. Kansans still proudly refer to their state as a free state because the anti-slavery forces prevailed there. Kansas message boards never discuss the possibility of joining the SEC. As Faulkner said "the past isn't really past."

(07-26-2016 08:10 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  

(07-26-2016 07:47 PM)WakeForestRanger Wrote:  I see no value in Texas Tech or Kansas State for the ACC.

That's only because you have 20/20 vision.

I would take Iowa St over either of those two.

(07-27-2016 07:31 AM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  

(07-26-2016 08:10 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  

(07-26-2016 07:47 PM)WakeForestRanger Wrote:  I see no value in Texas Tech or Kansas State for the ACC.

That's only because you have 20/20 vision.

I would take Iowa St over either of those two.

Iowa State is a good school in a bad spot, a true victim of a bad location.

(07-26-2016 11:48 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(07-26-2016 09:48 AM)Lou_C Wrote:  The ACC shouldn't even be considering expansion right now. Got to wait and see what happens with the Big 12. That's a gordion knot to untangle, considering all the interwoven considerations between the schools and their state brethren.

However, if the Big 12 HAS to go, and I don't believe it does, one POSSIBLE option could be the following:

OU, Ok St, Kansas and WVU to the SEC.
TX, TT, TCU and Kansas St to the ACC.

I'm not saying that's likely...but it checks more boxes than any other proposal, IF you can figure out how to make an 18 team conference work.

- 8 votes is enough to disband the Big 12
- Oklahoma and Texas little brothers are protected (state politics)
- KU and MU are renewed as conference rivals
- The following games are added to the ACC/SEC rivalry slate: Red River Rivalry, KU-KSU, WVU-Pitt
- The LHN can stay in the ESPN family in some form
- Texas-Texas A&M can become an occasional secondary ACC/SEC rivalry like UGA-Clemson, UF-UM,
- Texas isn't island-ized, and the ACC is entrenched in Texas
- SEC basketball gets a monster upgrade
- ACC football gets a great upgrade
- All can be done under the auspices of ESPN, and would be a major block on Fox/B1G

Biggest drawbacks:
- How do you schedule an 18-team conference?
- Kansas and the SEC just historically doesn't seem to make sense
- Is there enough value there for the SEC to take four teams, but very little population and only one premier brand? I suppose that's up to how much ESPN would be willing to make it worth.

It's not perfect, but of all the scenarios people float, that seems to be the most logistically feasible.

For the ACC, which also has to fit in OOC games against Notre Dame, it's damn near impossible. Especially when you add the ACC-SEC rivalry games. Something would have to give.

If you only have an 8 game league schedule, in order to accommodate OOC rivals and seven home games, then you have to lose some long time rivalries. In effect, you would be creating two separate 9 team conferences that would rarely play each other outside the CCG.

If you have a 9 game league schedule, you still only get teams from the other division once every nine years. Why bother? Especially if that means an FSU would sometimes have to choose between playing Florida or having another home game. I think the home game loses that battle, just as it would for Clemson-South Carolina.

16 teams is hard enough, and I hope we don't ever get forced into that. To me, it's worth it for one P5 conference to get left out of the CFP occasionally in order to keep the Big XII viable.

Having two 9 team divisions wouldn't be desirable. 1 way to solve some of the problems would be to rotate 4 teams in each division every other year. Perhaps the ACC & SEC could get regulation passed that would allow a 3x6.

Texas, TT, TCU, Kansas State, UL, Miami

FSU, Clemson, GT, Pitt, Syracuse, BC

VT, NC, Duke, Virginia, NC St, WF

(07-27-2016 07:35 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(07-27-2016 07:31 AM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  

(07-26-2016 08:10 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  

(07-26-2016 07:47 PM)WakeForestRanger Wrote:  I see no value in Texas Tech or Kansas State for the ACC.

That's only because you have 20/20 vision.

I would take Iowa St over either of those two.

Iowa State is a good school in a bad spot, a true victim of a bad location.

Good school with a rabid fan base. Iowa also trumps Kansas in population, 3.1 million to 2.9 million. In this scenario I think you should drop TT for Iowa St to add an additional market & a better school.
(Texas, TCU, Kansas St & Iowa St)

(07-27-2016 07:50 AM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  

(07-27-2016 07:35 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(07-27-2016 07:31 AM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  

(07-26-2016 08:10 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  

(07-26-2016 07:47 PM)WakeForestRanger Wrote:  I see no value in Texas Tech or Kansas State for the ACC.

That's only because you have 20/20 vision.

I would take Iowa St over either of those two.

Iowa State is a good school in a bad spot, a true victim of a bad location.

Good school with a rabid fan base. Iowa also trumps Kansas in population, 3.1 million to 2.9 million. In this scenario I think you should drop TT for Iowa St to add an additional market & a better school.
(Texas, TCU, Kansas St & Iowa St)

Keep in mind; that what you are doing is putting a square peg in a round hole. Texas and Texas Tech have no real history with either Kansas State or Iowa State beyond their brief association in the Big 12.

I get potentially taking Texas, Oklahoma or Kansas if the B12 falls apart even though I wouldn't necessarily love it. However, some of these other names getting thrown around are ridiculous: Texas Tech? Kansas State? Why on earth would the ACC ever add these schools? They're poor academic schools in bad locations with almost no potential for major growth and zero history with any of the schools in the league. I know I'm in the minority but I have almost no interest in Pitt playing in the same conference as any of the Big 12 schools except West Virginia. I'd rather UCF, USF, Cincy, UConn, Temple than middling schools like KSU, OSU, TTU that have almost no growth potential from a completely different area of the country.