(05-29-2016 11:20 AM)panama Wrote:  

(05-29-2016 10:52 AM)NCeagle Wrote:  So basically, this disproves anybody's theory that media market matters

Really missing the larger point. Media market is a component.

Arkstfan however has seen the canary in the coal mine.

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Market based decisions can be good if you look at the whole picture.

I really like ODU. One of the largest markets in the nation without a team in the big four pro sports. It is roughly the equivalent of Oklahoma City, except unlike OKC there is no NBA team, there isn't a top 20 brand P5 in the suburbs nor another P5 barely over an hour away. I'll take a risk on that every day of the week.

I like the Coastal addition. Just far enough from the local P5's that local TV has to rely canned content from out-of-market stations or school video to cover them. A small market where sports anchors are hoping to build a resume to move and thusly need self-produced content to put on their reel and Coastal is just an easy drive from the studio. Not the polished path ODU has but good potential to build a niche.

But markets are worthless unless you have the product. Before UNT left, ESPN2 did a Tuesday with UNT and UL and a week later AState and UL and the second game drew about double the audience. Viewers at home want to see decent teams, they prefer enough people in the stands to make the game seem exciting. Ideally UNT would have drawn more casual viewers just because of the number of people with a casual interest (ie. hope they do well but I probably won't buy a ticket) who would tune in but they aren't tuning in if they expect the local team to not represent well.

Best thing that has come down the pike for GaSt is getting Turner Field being able to play in an appropriately sized stadium with students living nearby COMPLETELY changes the equation. In bandwagon and event oriented Atlanta, a weeknight game in that situation is potential gold.

(05-29-2016 11:44 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(05-29-2016 11:20 AM)panama Wrote:  

(05-29-2016 10:52 AM)NCeagle Wrote:  So basically, this disproves anybody's theory that media market matters

Really missing the larger point. Media market is a component.

Arkstfan however has seen the canary in the coal mine.

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Market based decisions can be good if you look at the whole picture.

I really like ODU. One of the largest markets in the nation without a team in the big four pro sports. It is roughly the equivalent of Oklahoma City, except unlike OKC there is no NBA team, there isn't a top 20 brand P5 in the suburbs nor another P5 barely over an hour away. I'll take a risk on that every day of the week.

I like the Coastal addition. Just far enough from the local P5's that local TV has to rely canned content from out-of-market stations or school video to cover them. A small market where sports anchors are hoping to build a resume to move and thusly need self-produced content to put on their reel and Coastal is just an easy drive from the studio. Not the polished path ODU has but good potential to build a niche.

But markets are worthless unless you have the product. Before UNT left, ESPN2 did a Tuesday with UNT and UL and a week later AState and UL and the second game drew about double the audience. Viewers at home want to see decent teams, they prefer enough people in the stands to make the game seem exciting. Ideally UNT would have drawn more casual viewers just because of the number of people with a casual interest (ie. hope they do well but I probably won't buy a ticket) who would tune in but they aren't tuning in if they expect the local team to not represent well.

Best thing that has come down the pike for GaSt is getting Turner Field being able to play in an appropriately sized stadium with students living nearby COMPLETELY changes the equation. In bandwagon and event oriented Atlanta, a weeknight game in that situation is potential gold.

Your best case scenario is a Houston. They invested $120m in institutional funds to get top facilities and coaches. In a city like Houston, Atlanta or Miami what draws interest is "Oh you're playing Florida State...and the game is tied!"

*sits up straight in barcolounger*

Howard Schnellenberger was the first modern day genius to realize the possibilities when you combine market, brand and product (winning team and game day experience).

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By the way, while we are on the topic, Georgia Southern has a great opportunity where market and brand are concerned. Savannah State has abandoned the area as far as Division I athletics. Southern has an opportunity to engage and brand themselves as the coast's team. It's there for the taking and Savannah is a nice sized metro.

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(05-29-2016 12:51 AM)WKUYG Wrote:  In the end this is what will happen....

CUSA will be playing 90% (guess est) on a Saturday. There's not one fan on this board of a SBC school that wouldn't give up a nu...pinky, to play all their football games at a decent kickoff time on a Saturday afternoon or evening. As a fan that will be more important than the across the board Olympic sports that will bite the bullet for any money lost on the CUSA TV contract...

football will not take the hit
basketball will not take the hit..at least not for the "basketball schools" in CUSA

You have already been getting your wish.

http://www.bgdailynews.com/sports/wku/wk...cac79.html

Quote:They include strong growth in ticket revenue, especially football, which is at an all-time high. Other contributing factors are strong private donations, improved revenue shares in Conference USA over the Sun Belt Conference, and former football coach Bobby Petrino's $1.2 million buyout paid by Louisville when he left to coach the Cardinals in 2014.

So improved C-USA revenue shares are going away and the buyout is going away. Add in the state budget cuts and student fees falling...yikes. You guys have dropped men's soccer, men's tennis, men's swimming and diving and women's swimming and diving within the last decade. Double yikes.

(05-28-2016 02:46 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  

(05-28-2016 02:25 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(05-28-2016 12:46 PM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  How is this better?

Less money for them is good for us.

Thought that was obvious. Guess some didn't get it.

I understood that you were implying that you want to see CUSA fail and that somehow it's good for us. I just am scared to see our next TV deal if that's what they got. Someone said it can't get any worse but it can. We could have no TV games...

For me, I love the rationalization and thought processes many CUSA fans go through.

If they had a stellar deal and played every single football game on a Tuesday or Wednesday, there would be fans that say, "Wow! Look at all of that publicity and air time! I don't care if we play any home Saturday games, as this is what is best for the university if it wants to grow and prosper. Also, big money is what we wanted! We now get to play on ESPN on a weeknight, seeing as no one really pays attention to ESPN3."

If they had a crap deal and played every single football game on a Saturday, there would be fans that say, "Ya know, we weren't in it for the money anyways. This is what is best for the fans and I'm glad to see CUSA taking a stand for the fans and the athletes! Good for them sticking it to the man. ESPN3 is the future of television, too, as absolutely everybody has an Apple TV or internet access. Nobody watches live games on ESPN anymore, so I'm happy to see this move!"

Then, if you had a little bit of both, there would be fans that say, "An the AAC thinks they're any better than us? This shows them! I'll put money on *insert any CUSA team here* being in the Big 10 within the next decade. The Sun Belt is leaps and bounds behind us."

The rationalization is impressive. It's almost as if many of these fans spend more time complaining and coming up with ways to rationalize than they do anything else. It is astonishing to me that these fans just can't and won't admit that their conference's plan to pick up a ton of market schools (Charlotte, FIU, FAU, etc.) didn't work. They all thought that, because these schools are in big markets, people would tune in and it didn't work. Why not admit the mistake that was made and then work to build a program/conference that you all can be proud of rather than spending time researching ways that you can spin it to your advantage? Dropping multiple programs for the sake of a conference move and then claiming that it's good to lose hundreds of thousands of dollars in revenue doesn't make sense. You can put glitter in **** all you want to, but that still doesn't make it pretty.

(05-29-2016 12:48 PM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  

(05-28-2016 02:46 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  

(05-28-2016 02:25 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(05-28-2016 12:46 PM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  How is this better?

Less money for them is good for us.

Thought that was obvious. Guess some didn't get it.

I understood that you were implying that you want to see CUSA fail and that somehow it's good for us. I just am scared to see our next TV deal if that's what they got. Someone said it can't get any worse but it can. We could have no TV games...

There's always going to be enough content available for us to get games. Between ESPN, NBC, Fox, and CBS plus every small cable network out there, plenty of networks want in on the college football game.

If we get no TV revenue, so what? Does that really hurt any of our program if we're still getting similar coverage to now? Sun Belt programs already plan for basically no television revenue. If we made 50K a year instead of 100K, that's nothing. We're used to surviving without massive television revenue

On the other hand, there are schools in CUSA who have known nothing but TV revenue in the millions, and they are now have to adjust for a TV revenue that's far closer to ours, with even less exposure to ours. That's going to be a tough adjustment for those schools. For us, it's a drop in the hat.

(05-29-2016 10:22 AM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(05-29-2016 08:01 AM)Saint3333 Wrote:  For someone that doesn't care you did a lot of research and typing.

Programs jumped from the SBC for two reasons - to increase revenue (TV) and play "higher" caliber programs. We can argue how much higher your programs are but the former reason is now moot. Posting a novelette isn't going to change that, but I hope it makes you feel better.

As a fan, and you are lying to yourself if say any different, I want 6 Saturday afternoon or evening games. As a fan I let others worry about making the budget work. I help with buying tickets and a donation.

But if we want to just look at the dollars as I said the TV dollars are less, a lot less. But it's still $250,000 to $350,000 more than Western got each year in the SBC. That is a fact. I believe the conference returns around $25k to each SBC school, at least they did in Western's last season, from their 'TV Contract' . Hell ULM reported to their state budget ZERO dollars in TV money. So maybe it's now ZERO.

But still looking at the dollars....you can take away 1 million and those numbers I posted are still a million+ ahead of what each school gets today compared to while they played in the SBC.

But as I said...I'm a FAN. With that I want whats best for me and that's Saturday football. We really don't know if espn would have offered more (no report either way) for playing on Tuesday or Wednesday. But I do know it's usually a 25% increase, if not more, in attendance on a Saturday.

Oh, BTW, what makes me feel better is being RANKED in the top 25, winning 12 games and watching my team play. I was there in person for all 14 games but if I wasn't I could have turned on my TV...TV, and watched all 14 games.

So what makes you feel better? And as far as the research or typing...most people on this board knows I do my research and hell what can I say...some people can get their point across in a few words. I'm long winded.

All that is well and good, but I seem to recall a, if not the, major reason WKU going to CUSA was all those TV dollars.

(05-29-2016 12:48 PM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  

(05-28-2016 02:46 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  

(05-28-2016 02:25 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(05-28-2016 12:46 PM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  How is this better?

Less money for them is good for us.

Thought that was obvious. Guess some didn't get it.

I understood that you were implying that you want to see CUSA fail and that somehow it's good for us. I just am scared to see our next TV deal if that's what they got. Someone said it can't get any worse but it can. We could have no TV games...

It's more about these folks finally coming to the realization it (the big TV deal) wasn't about them.

If AState was offered membership in CUSA they would take it.
If ULL was offered membership in CUSA they would take it.
If either Georgia School was offered, they would take it.

I don't care what the reasons are. Even if it's prisoner's dilemma, the schools would move.

That's the only valuation between the two conferences you need.

(05-29-2016 04:27 PM)theboro Wrote:  If AState was offered membership in CUSA they would take it.
If ULL was offered membership in CUSA they would take it.
If either Georgia School was offered, they would take it.

I don't care what the reasons are. Even if it's prisoner's dilemma, the schools would move.

That's the only valuation between the two conferences you need.

I have no idea what we would say, but I guarantee you we sure wouldn't just say yes immediately and jump around excitedly. Terry Mohajir won't make any move unless he is confident the move brings greater revenue and exposure to Arkansas State as we attempt to grow our National brand. If he determines that CUSA would not help our brand, he won't make a move. (And he has been very vocal recently about how little revenue CUSA gets) That's just how it is.

We've been over this with you before. There's not some major desire among our fan base to move. We see CUSA as just an extended version of the current Sun Belt, and as something we strive to be better than. It's not like he's under intense pressure here to get us out of the Sun Belt. We trust that he'll make the best decision for the program in the long run.

Not that we would ever actually get an invite mind you. We don't fit the Marketz strategy of realignment.

You would move. Because if you didn't , UL would.

If you passed up every year games with LaTech and Southern Miss, regular games with MT and WKU and lost the biggest rival you have left in the league, your fans would revolt.

Not to mention, if the SBC was such a strong football league, it's champ wouldn't have gotten murdered by the 4th place team from CUSA.

(05-29-2016 04:27 PM)theboro Wrote:  If AState was offered membership in CUSA they would take it.
If ULL was offered membership in CUSA they would take it.
If either Georgia School was offered, they would take it.

I don't care what the reasons are. Even if it's prisoner's dilemma, the schools would move.

That's the only valuation between the two conferences you need.

You base this on what, five-year old information. The financials don't make sense for any team to leave either conference. Some idea of mythical prestige will never trump budgets. As long as a school would lose millions to make the move, it will never be worth it.

(05-29-2016 04:45 PM)theboro Wrote:  You would move. Because if you didn't , UL would.

If you passed up every year games with LaTech and Southern Miss, regular games with MT and WKU and lost the biggest rival you have left in the league, your fans would revolt.

Not to mention, if the SBC was such a strong football league, it's champ wouldn't have gotten murdered by the 4th place team from CUSA.

Go spent 5 seconds on our board and you'll figure out which way the wind blows when it comes to us and realignment.

Sure, regular games against USM and Tech would be nice. (MTSU and WKU are kind of meh, but they are close trips) but that also means basically taking the same or less revenue than we get now, playing in a 14 team league, and forcing games down our throats against FIU and FAU, who we'd much rather be without, Charlotte and ODU, who we have zero history with, and a North Texas team that hasn't beaten us since the Bush Administration.

We'd much rather just play those guys in OOC Play.

Now, if the Western half of CUSA was to want to split from their Eastern Cousins, and grab a few of the Western SBC programs, I am quite sure we'd be fine with that situation. Or if the top half of CUSA got tired of their lower tier cousins picking up their scraps and wanted to create a league that could challenge the AAC and MWC and invited a few top SBC Programs to join, we'd happily jump in to that.

Also, you really overestimate what we consider rivalries.

(05-29-2016 04:49 PM)FoUTASportscaster Wrote:  

(05-29-2016 04:27 PM)theboro Wrote:  If AState was offered membership in CUSA they would take it.
If ULL was offered membership in CUSA they would take it.
If either Georgia School was offered, they would take it.

I don't care what the reasons are. Even if it's prisoner's dilemma, the schools would move.

That's the only valuation between the two conferences you need.

You base this on what, five-year old information. The financials don't make sense for any team to leave either conference. Some idea of mythical prestige will never trump budgets. As long as a school would lose millions to make the move, it will never be worth it.

This ^^^. I would *think* any school in the SBC entertaining a CUSA invite would have to justify the move (not "jump" - that's now a completely irrelevant word now) with a very thorough and perhaps, even independent CBA to justify such a move. And if you (theboro) needs to google "CBA", it demonstrates your ignorance of the "here and now". CUSA? There's "no there there". Google that, too.

As it stands, after exit/entry fees and the money now being roughly equal (as well as so-called "prestige"), it would literally take most, if not all Belt schools, decades to recoup the costs of such a move.

The "oh-so-coveted patch" is now nothing more than a myth - a myth most football fans not on the Belt or SBC message boards clearly understand now, as reflected by CUSA's draconian "haircut".

Sorry, CUSA fans - the truth's a beeyatch and the sooner you realize it, the sooner you can shed your "head in the sand", laughable image all of the other G5's are seeing...as evidenced by the number of AAC fans trying to talk some sense into you with a wakeup call.

(05-29-2016 04:27 PM)theboro Wrote:  If AState was offered membership in CUSA they would take it.
If ULL was offered membership in CUSA they would take it.
If either Georgia School was offered, they would take it.

I don't care what the reasons are. Even if it's prisoner's dilemma, the schools would move.

That's the only valuation between the two conferences you need.

You've been delusional as long as I've seen you posting, and that includes before I met you.
You just can't comprehend anyone not jumping at the opportunity that you all wanted so badly. It wasn't good for your program then, and it's much worse for any new programs now.
Let me know when your entrance fees are paid off.

(05-29-2016 05:05 PM)Fanof49ASU Wrote:  

(05-29-2016 04:27 PM)theboro Wrote:  If AState was offered membership in CUSA they would take it.
If ULL was offered membership in CUSA they would take it.
If either Georgia School was offered, they would take it.

I don't care what the reasons are. Even if it's prisoner's dilemma, the schools would move.

That's the only valuation between the two conferences you need.

You've been delusional as long as I've seen you posting, and that includes before I met you.
You just can't comprehend anyone not jumping at the opportunity that you all wanted so badly. It wasn't good for your program then, and it's much worse for any new programs now.
Let me know when your entrance fees are paid off.

Be careful, WKUG will be here shortly with a chart explaining to us how easy we would make up all that money spent.

All the while chopping other sports cause they have more money...

I think the prisoner's dilemma has even lost a lot of its fire now.

If you are banking on joining CUSA just because USM is there....its like jumping because ECU and Memphis are there...oops...they are gone.

You are jumping into a league..not a partnership with one particular school.

Yeah, I like ULL. But I like TXST, App, GaSo also.

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As usual, it looks like it's up to me to bring some solid reasoning into the conversation. It's really very simple. If your school is a member of a G5 conference, it is automatically entered into the NCAA's new Tallest Midget Contest, or perhaps a better name for it would be the Not The Shortest Midget Contest. As a participant, you are required to spend endless hours attempting to dig up any dirt you possibly can about any school in an opposing G5 conference. Meanwhile, your team will compete for a spot in one of the bowl games that nobody but your own fan base cares a thing about.

As those things are happening, the nation's TV networks are investing their full attention and money to the P5 conferences. But enough about those guys. What's important is to never be thought of as the shortest midget!