Where is Greenwave? We need their insightful commentary on this one....

Not Guilty does not mean innocent
Not Guilty means there was not enough evidence to prove guilt

(05-23-2016 10:43 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  It is my understanding that the option to choose a bench or jury trial is only for minor offenses. What was this officer being charged for and why was he given the option on such a high profile case?

The most likely answer is that your understanding is incorrect, at least in his jurisdiction.

As I understand it (with the same caveats as yours) the bench trial is the 'default' for more minor offenses and you are only given the OPTION of a jury trial if the charge is more severe. It appears he declined the option.

It would make more sense that we (as a people) wouldn't bother with a jury trial and jury selection etc for minor offenses... as opposed to your description where THAT is the default and a bench trial the exception.

(05-23-2016 11:08 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(05-23-2016 10:43 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(05-23-2016 10:34 AM)QuestionSocratic Wrote:  

(05-23-2016 10:23 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(05-23-2016 10:17 AM)usmbacker Wrote:  Will riots follow?

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/05/23/bal...-case.html

Why was he given the option of a bench trial?

I was once called and interviewed by the prosecution/defense on a murder trial. There were two defendants and one choose jury and one choose bench trial. Both trials were conducted simultaneously with the jury deciding (guilty) on one defendant and the judge ruling (not guilty) on the other.

It was explained that it was at the option of the defendant to choose jury or bench.

As an aside, I wasn't chosen because my daughter was a babysitter for the DA.

It is my understanding that the option to choose a bench or jury trial is only for minor offenses. What was this officer being charged for and why was he given the option on such a high profile case?

You're understanding is incorrect. In most states the option of a jury trial is only open to charges that carry a significant sentence. e.g. you can't ask for a jury trial for shoplifting... That's almost always a bench trial.

However.... For serious crimes the accused always gets to pick either or.

That's why I asked specifically what he was being charged for.

(05-23-2016 11:45 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  If people knew that the word "redskins" came from the act of actively hunting and scalping Indians for profit as if they were animals, they would be offended.

That's not where it came from... Period...

And again, it's not your place to tell other people what should and should not offend them.

Aug. 22, 1812: At a Washington reception for several Native Americans Little Osage Chief Sans Oreilles (No Ears) “I know the manners of the whites and the red skins.” Then, Sioux Chief French Crow also pledged loyalty: “I am a red-skin,but what I say is the truth, and notwithstanding I came a long way I am content, but wish to return from here.”

What we have is the force of SJW's telling a minority group what should offend them... White Knights (pun intended) to the rescue carrying the "burden" of making the world better for those minorities who "don't know their own history"

(05-23-2016 12:13 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  That's why I asked specifically what he was being charged for.

but you're going the wrong direction

bench trial is the default. Jury is the option. The more serious the offense, you get the option of a Jury. you asked why bench was an option... and it is the default

(05-23-2016 12:21 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(05-23-2016 12:13 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  That's why I asked specifically what he was being charged for.

but you're going the wrong direction

bench trial is the default. Jury is the option. The more serious the offense, you get the option of a Jury. you asked why bench was an option... and it is the default

In many jurisdictions, the defendant gets the option to have a bench trial if he/she potentially faces more than six months in jail.

The decision to pick a bench trial over a jury trial is a matter of strategy. The officer may have believed he would not have received a fair jury in Baltimore. Juries are more likely to be swayed by emotion instead of following the law as opposed to a judge.

It worked out for the officer in this case, but the strategy could have potentially backfired on the officer. The downside to a bench trial is you have all 12 jurors on board to convict a defendant. All the prosecution has to do is convince one person in a bench trial. There is always the possibility the judge is under some political pressure to convict in a case like this.

(05-23-2016 12:29 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(05-23-2016 12:18 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(05-23-2016 11:45 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  If people knew that the word "redskins" came from the act of actively hunting and scalping Indians for profit as if they were animals, they would be offended.

That's not where it came from... Period...

And again, it's not your place to tell other people what should and should not offend them.

Aug. 22, 1812: At a Washington reception for several Native Americans Little Osage Chief Sans Oreilles (No Ears) “I know the manners of the whites and the red skins.” Then, Sioux Chief French Crow also pledged loyalty: “I am a red-skin,but what I say is the truth, and notwithstanding I came a long way I am content, but wish to return from here.”

What we have is the force of SJW's telling a minority group what should offend them... White Knights (pun intended) to the rescue carrying the "burden" of making the world better for those minorities who "don't know their own history"

A 'Redskin' Does, In Fact, Mean the Scalped Head of a Native American, Sold, Like a Pelt, for Cash
Many have claimed that our story about the etymology of "Redskin" was wrong. This document from 1863 proves otherwise.

Link

Redskin name was originally created in the late 1500's to describe Indians of the Americas period.

"American Indian," 1690s, from red (adj.1) + skin (n.). Red as the skin color of Native Americans is from 1580s; red man is from 1580s. Cf. red cent.
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/redskin

But where did the word "redskin" come from? Many dictionaries and history books say the term came about in reference to the Beothuk tribe of what is now Newfoundland, Canada. The Beothuk were said to paint their bodies with red ochre, leading white settlers to refer to them as "red men."

According to Smithsonian historian Ives Goddard, early historical records indicate that "Redskin" was used as a self-identifier by Native Americans to differentiate between the two races. Goddard found that the first use of the word "redskin" came in 1769, in negotiations between the Piankashaws and Col. John Wilkins. Throughout the 1800s, the word was frequently used by Native Americans as they negotiated with the French and later the Americans. The phrase gained widespread usage among whites when James Fenimore Cooper used it in his 1823 novel The Pioneers
http://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2...of-redskin

(05-23-2016 10:43 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(05-23-2016 10:34 AM)QuestionSocratic Wrote:  

(05-23-2016 10:23 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(05-23-2016 10:17 AM)usmbacker Wrote:  Will riots follow?

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/05/23/bal...-case.html

Why was he given the option of a bench trial?

I was once called and interviewed by the prosecution/defense on a murder trial. There were two defendants and one choose jury and one choose bench trial. Both trials were conducted simultaneously with the jury deciding (guilty) on one defendant and the judge ruling (not guilty) on the other.

It was explained that it was at the option of the defendant to choose jury or bench.

As an aside, I wasn't chosen because my daughter was a babysitter for the DA.

It is my understanding that the option to choose a bench or jury trial is only for minor offenses. What was this officer being charged for and why was he given the option on such a high profile case?

Well then I guess you misunderstood because I can tell you that here in New York, a defendant in a murder trial opted for a bench trial. Again, and I think this is important, there was only one trial. Both were tried at the same time.

Get back on the correct thread about Redskins you jackwagons! This one is about whether Baltimore will riot again!

(05-23-2016 12:29 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(05-23-2016 12:18 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(05-23-2016 11:45 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  If people knew that the word "redskins" came from the act of actively hunting and scalping Indians for profit as if they were animals, they would be offended.

That's not where it came from... Period...

And again, it's not your place to tell other people what should and should not offend them.

Aug. 22, 1812: At a Washington reception for several Native Americans Little Osage Chief Sans Oreilles (No Ears) “I know the manners of the whites and the red skins.” Then, Sioux Chief French Crow also pledged loyalty: “I am a red-skin,but what I say is the truth, and notwithstanding I came a long way I am content, but wish to return from here.”

What we have is the force of SJW's telling a minority group what should offend them... White Knights (pun intended) to the rescue carrying the "burden" of making the world better for those minorities who "don't know their own history"

A 'Redskin' Does, In Fact, Mean the Scalped Head of a Native American, Sold, Like a Pelt, for Cash
Many have claimed that our story about the etymology of "Redskin" was wrong. This document from 1863 proves otherwise.

Link

Talk about reading and comprehension fails.

(05-23-2016 12:33 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(05-23-2016 12:21 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(05-23-2016 12:13 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  That's why I asked specifically what he was being charged for.

but you're going the wrong direction

bench trial is the default. Jury is the option. The more serious the offense, you get the option of a Jury. you asked why bench was an option... and it is the default

In many jurisdictions, the defendant gets the option to have a bench trial if he/she potentially faces more than six months in jail.

The decision to pick a bench trial over a jury trial is a matter of strategy. The officer may have believed he would not have received a fair jury in Baltimore. Juries are more likely to be swayed by emotion instead of following the law as opposed to a judge.

It worked out for the officer in this case, but the strategy could have potentially backfired on the officer. The downside to a bench trial is you have all 12 jurors on board to convict a defendant. All the prosecution has to do is convince one person in a bench trial. There is always the possibility the judge is under some political pressure to convict in a case like this.

I think you're saying something confusing, whether or not you personally are confused... I think others may be by what you say here.

I'm 99.9% convinced that the bench trial is the default. You have the option of a jury trial if the charge is more severe....

and thus I suppose you can say you have the option of a bench trial (or a jury trial) for more severe charges... but the implication was that the option of a bench trial shouldn't have been available because the charge is more serious... and the fact seems to be that a bench trial is almost ALWAYS an option... for almost all people at almost all times (only saying almost because I suspect capital murder might require a jury... IDK)

If you got a speeding ticket, you probably don't have the option of a jury trial. If accused of assault or certainly murder, you do. You CAN decline that option and keep the bench trial.

(05-23-2016 12:42 PM)QuestionSocratic Wrote:  

(05-23-2016 10:43 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(05-23-2016 10:34 AM)QuestionSocratic Wrote:  

(05-23-2016 10:23 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(05-23-2016 10:17 AM)usmbacker Wrote:  Will riots follow?

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/05/23/bal...-case.html

Why was he given the option of a bench trial?

I was once called and interviewed by the prosecution/defense on a murder trial. There were two defendants and one choose jury and one choose bench trial. Both trials were conducted simultaneously with the jury deciding (guilty) on one defendant and the judge ruling (not guilty) on the other.

It was explained that it was at the option of the defendant to choose jury or bench.

As an aside, I wasn't chosen because my daughter was a babysitter for the DA.

It is my understanding that the option to choose a bench or jury trial is only for minor offenses. What was this officer being charged for and why was he given the option on such a high profile case?

Well then I guess you misunderstood because I can tell you that here in New York, a defendant in a murder trial opted for a bench trial. Again, and I think this is important, there was only one trial. Both were tried at the same time.

Like I said it depends on the charges.

(05-23-2016 12:35 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(05-23-2016 12:29 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(05-23-2016 12:18 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(05-23-2016 11:45 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  If people knew that the word "redskins" came from the act of actively hunting and scalping Indians for profit as if they were animals, they would be offended.

That's not where it came from... Period...

And again, it's not your place to tell other people what should and should not offend them.

Aug. 22, 1812: At a Washington reception for several Native Americans Little Osage Chief Sans Oreilles (No Ears) “I know the manners of the whites and the red skins.” Then, Sioux Chief French Crow also pledged loyalty: “I am a red-skin,but what I say is the truth, and notwithstanding I came a long way I am content, but wish to return from here.”

What we have is the force of SJW's telling a minority group what should offend them... White Knights (pun intended) to the rescue carrying the "burden" of making the world better for those minorities who "don't know their own history"

A 'Redskin' Does, In Fact, Mean the Scalped Head of a Native American, Sold, Like a Pelt, for Cash
Many have claimed that our story about the etymology of "Redskin" was wrong. This document from 1863 proves otherwise.

Link

Redskin name was originally created in the late 1500's to describe Indians of the Americas period.

"American Indian," 1690s, from red (adj.1) + skin (n.). Red as the skin color of Native Americans is from 1580s; red man is from 1580s. Cf. red cent.
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/redskin

But where did the word "redskin" come from? Many dictionaries and history books say the term came about in reference to the Beothuk tribe of what is now Newfoundland, Canada. The Beothuk were said to paint their bodies with red ochre, leading white settlers to refer to them as "red men."

According to Smithsonian historian Ives Goddard, early historical records indicate that "Redskin" was used as a self-identifier by Native Americans to differentiate between the two races. Goddard found that the first use of the word "redskin" came in 1769, in negotiations between the Piankashaws and Col. John Wilkins. Throughout the 1800s, the word was frequently used by Native Americans as they negotiated with the French and later the Americans. The phrase gained widespread usage among whites when James Fenimore Cooper used it in his 1823 novel The Pioneers
http://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2...of-redskin

By fitbuds "common usage defines meaning" the term RedSkin means a football player for the NFL franchise located in Washington D.C.

Problem solved!

(05-23-2016 12:59 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(05-23-2016 12:42 PM)QuestionSocratic Wrote:  

(05-23-2016 10:43 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(05-23-2016 10:34 AM)QuestionSocratic Wrote:  

(05-23-2016 10:23 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  Why was he given the option of a bench trial?

I was once called and interviewed by the prosecution/defense on a murder trial. There were two defendants and one choose jury and one choose bench trial. Both trials were conducted simultaneously with the jury deciding (guilty) on one defendant and the judge ruling (not guilty) on the other.

It was explained that it was at the option of the defendant to choose jury or bench.

As an aside, I wasn't chosen because my daughter was a babysitter for the DA.

It is my understanding that the option to choose a bench or jury trial is only for minor offenses. What was this officer being charged for and why was he given the option on such a high profile case?

Well then I guess you misunderstood because I can tell you that here in New York, a defendant in a murder trial opted for a bench trial. Again, and I think this is important, there was only one trial. Both were tried at the same time.

Like I said it depends on the charges.

you are just going in circles fitbutt

(05-23-2016 12:58 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(05-23-2016 12:33 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(05-23-2016 12:21 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(05-23-2016 12:13 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  That's why I asked specifically what he was being charged for.

but you're going the wrong direction

bench trial is the default. Jury is the option. The more serious the offense, you get the option of a Jury. you asked why bench was an option... and it is the default

In many jurisdictions, the defendant gets the option to have a bench trial if he/she potentially faces more than six months in jail.

The decision to pick a bench trial over a jury trial is a matter of strategy. The officer may have believed he would not have received a fair jury in Baltimore. Juries are more likely to be swayed by emotion instead of following the law as opposed to a judge.

It worked out for the officer in this case, but the strategy could have potentially backfired on the officer. The downside to a bench trial is you have all 12 jurors on board to convict a defendant. All the prosecution has to do is convince one person in a bench trial. There is always the possibility the judge is under some political pressure to convict in a case like this.

I think you're saying something confusing, whether or not you personally are confused... I think others may be by what you say here.

I'm 99.9% convinced that the bench trial is the default. You have the option of a jury trial if the charge is more severe....

and thus I suppose you can say you have the option of a bench trial (or a jury trial) for more severe charges... but the implication was that the option of a bench trial shouldn't have been available because the charge is more serious... and the fact seems to be that a bench trial is almost ALWAYS an option... for almost all people at almost all times (only saying almost because I suspect capital murder might require a jury... IDK)

If you got a speeding ticket, you probably don't have the option of a jury trial. If accused of assault or certainly murder, you do. You CAN decline that option and keep the bench trial.

Under the sixth amendment of the United States Constitution, every citizen is entitled to a trial by jury if he or she is accused of a crime. This applies to any type of criminal case, regardless of the severity of the offense.

In some situations, the accused may receive a bench trial instead. Often bench trials are utilized in traffic cases, civil disputes or certain juvenile offenses to expedite matters. . On the other end of a spectrum, if the defendant is potentially facing serious jail time, they could petition for a bench trial as well for the reasons I stated above. A defendant who is looking at only 30 days in the hole is likely going to be denied a request for a bench trial.

(05-23-2016 11:04 AM)usmbacker Wrote:  

(05-23-2016 10:41 AM)firmbizzle Wrote:  Well Freddie Gray didn't kill himself, so who did?

How do you know he didn't kill himself? One theory is he banged his head against the wall in the back of that vehicle causing life ending injuries. Another prisoner in the van claims that is exactly what happened. Not saying that is what happened, but to say he didn't kill himself is has not been proven.

Then come out and say that. Personally, I don't think that he severed his own neck but if that's the case fine. Nobody is accountable.

I'm surprised that this trial was not more widely publicized.

(05-23-2016 01:14 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  I'm surprised that this trial was not more widely publicized.

Election season.

(05-23-2016 01:09 PM)firmbizzle Wrote:  

(05-23-2016 11:04 AM)usmbacker Wrote:  

(05-23-2016 10:41 AM)firmbizzle Wrote:  Well Freddie Gray didn't kill himself, so who did?

How do you know he didn't kill himself? One theory is he banged his head against the wall in the back of that vehicle causing life ending injuries. Another prisoner in the van claims that is exactly what happened. Not saying that is what happened, but to say he didn't kill himself is has not been proven.

Then come out and say that. Personally, I don't think that he severed his own neck but if that's the case fine. Nobody is accountable.

You stated he didn't kill himself. I am stating that that scenario has been presented by someone that was in the van. Gray had a history of injuring himself to sue police.