(04-30-2016 07:53 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(04-29-2016 10:10 PM)HappyAppy Wrote:  

(04-29-2016 09:38 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(04-29-2016 09:27 PM)HappyAppy Wrote:  

(04-29-2016 09:03 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  Why Sports Authority is throwing in the towel and closing all of its stores

When struggling retailer Sports Authority filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy last month in the face of more than $1 billion in debt, the company indicated that it had two options going forward.

One of those was to shed underperforming stores and emerge from bankruptcy as an intact, but pared-down company. The other was to sell everything and cease operating.

On Tuesday, the company appeared to choose the latter.

. . .

“With the minimum wage going up to $15 an hour and more people turning to online shopping, more stores are going to close,” Lempert said. “It’s fine to say that everyone should have a living wage. But the money has to come from somewhere.”

http://www.pasadenastarnews.com/business...its-stores

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Posts don't get more intentionally misleading or intellectually dishonest then that one. That's some weak, weak sauce.

The part that you conveniently replaced with "...":

Quote:In a hearing in U.S. Bankruptcy Court in Wilmington, Delaware, an attorney for the Englewood, Colorado-based sporting goods chain indicated that the only option for the company was to close all of its stores.

"It has become apparent that the debtors will not reorganize under a plan but instead will pursue a sale," said the attorney, Robert Klyman.

Then you skip down to a quote from some random guy who isn't even talking about Sports Authority.

Sports Authority is throwing in the towel because they are a billion dollars in debt and they were a poorly managed disaster. That $15 minimum wage boogie man has zip zero nada to do with it.

The underlying theme is labor can't compete with the internet and $15 per hour is going to make it worse. The only retailers that will be left is Walmart and convenience stores. People still need gas, cigs, drugs, and household goods. Anything that can wait 2 days you get free shipping and lower prices on Amazon Prime. $15 per hour is going crush us.

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That's all well and good. You bring up some good points, should have led with that. I I was just pointing out the original post seems to say the $15 minimum wage had something to do with Sports Authority shutting down when that couldn't be further from the truth.

SA plainly stated the wage paradigm was a factor in the decision...not the only one.

Care to point me in the direction of the part in the article where they say that? All I see is one guy saying the wage will be a factor in future decisions.

SA does not have $1 billion in debt because of a $15 minimum wage. They are shutting down because they are a poorly run company that can't compete. All that happened before a $15 minimum wage.

(04-30-2016 09:21 AM)HappyAppy Wrote:  

(04-30-2016 07:53 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(04-29-2016 10:10 PM)HappyAppy Wrote:  

(04-29-2016 09:38 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(04-29-2016 09:27 PM)HappyAppy Wrote:  Posts don't get more intentionally misleading or intellectually dishonest then that one. That's some weak, weak sauce.

The part that you conveniently replaced with "...":


Then you skip down to a quote from some random guy who isn't even talking about Sports Authority.

Sports Authority is throwing in the towel because they are a billion dollars in debt and they were a poorly managed disaster. That $15 minimum wage boogie man has zip zero nada to do with it.

The underlying theme is labor can't compete with the internet and $15 per hour is going to make it worse. The only retailers that will be left is Walmart and convenience stores. People still need gas, cigs, drugs, and household goods. Anything that can wait 2 days you get free shipping and lower prices on Amazon Prime. $15 per hour is going crush us.

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That's all well and good. You bring up some good points, should have led with that. I I was just pointing out the original post seems to say the $15 minimum wage had something to do with Sports Authority shutting down when that couldn't be further from the truth.

SA plainly stated the wage paradigm was a factor in the decision...not the only one.

Care to point me in the direction of the part in the article where they say that? All I see is one guy saying the wage will be a factor in future decisions.

SA does not have $1 billion in debt because of a $15 minimum wage. They are shutting down because they are a poorly run company that can't compete. All that happened before a $15 minimum wage.

The crux of the problem for the future of SA is the $15 minimum wage. Companies like SA have entered bankruptcy many times in the past, pared down the under performing stores, then returned to profitability. What SA is saying is that there is no way that strategy works when they are facing a $15 minimum wage.

You can call them poorly run. However, let's see if you call all companies that have to move or shut down due to the $15 minimum wage "poorly run."

(04-29-2016 10:16 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Who cares? It's a dead store.

The last time I was in a Sports Authority it was painfully obvious why they were in a world of hurt. They sucked.

You do, or you wouldn't have told us you didn't.

(04-30-2016 09:21 AM)HappyAppy Wrote:  

(04-30-2016 07:53 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(04-29-2016 10:10 PM)HappyAppy Wrote:  

(04-29-2016 09:38 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(04-29-2016 09:27 PM)HappyAppy Wrote:  Posts don't get more intentionally misleading or intellectually dishonest then that one. That's some weak, weak sauce.

The part that you conveniently replaced with "...":


Then you skip down to a quote from some random guy who isn't even talking about Sports Authority.

Sports Authority is throwing in the towel because they are a billion dollars in debt and they were a poorly managed disaster. That $15 minimum wage boogie man has zip zero nada to do with it.

The underlying theme is labor can't compete with the internet and $15 per hour is going to make it worse. The only retailers that will be left is Walmart and convenience stores. People still need gas, cigs, drugs, and household goods. Anything that can wait 2 days you get free shipping and lower prices on Amazon Prime. $15 per hour is going crush us.

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That's all well and good. You bring up some good points, should have led with that. I I was just pointing out the original post seems to say the $15 minimum wage had something to do with Sports Authority shutting down when that couldn't be further from the truth.

SA plainly stated the wage paradigm was a factor in the decision...not the only one.

Care to point me in the direction of the part in the article where they say that? All I see is one guy saying the wage will be a factor in future decisions.

SA does not have $1 billion in debt because of a $15 minimum wage. They are shutting down because they are a poorly run company that can't compete. All that happened before a $15 minimum wage.

The future wage was part of the decision to close along with the debt. We must be reading different articles.

(04-30-2016 01:03 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(04-30-2016 09:21 AM)HappyAppy Wrote:  

(04-30-2016 07:53 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(04-29-2016 10:10 PM)HappyAppy Wrote:  

(04-29-2016 09:38 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  The underlying theme is labor can't compete with the internet and $15 per hour is going to make it worse. The only retailers that will be left is Walmart and convenience stores. People still need gas, cigs, drugs, and household goods. Anything that can wait 2 days you get free shipping and lower prices on Amazon Prime. $15 per hour is going crush us.

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That's all well and good. You bring up some good points, should have led with that. I I was just pointing out the original post seems to say the $15 minimum wage had something to do with Sports Authority shutting down when that couldn't be further from the truth.

SA plainly stated the wage paradigm was a factor in the decision...not the only one.

Care to point me in the direction of the part in the article where they say that? All I see is one guy saying the wage will be a factor in future decisions.

SA does not have $1 billion in debt because of a $15 minimum wage. They are shutting down because they are a poorly run company that can't compete. All that happened before a $15 minimum wage.

The future wage was part of the decision to close along with the debt. We must be reading different articles.

We must be. I can't find a anything in that article from anyone associated with SA saying that the $15 min. wage was part of their decision. The original post certainly hacked it together to make it seem that way to those who didn't read the artical or who wanted to jump to their own conclusions, but I must have missed what you are seeing. The closest thing I see: 1. Some analyst saying that the $15 wage will cause places to shut down (not talking about SA). 2. Some guy who owns a sandwich shop across the street from a SA saying the same thing.

The actual parts about SA seem to say they are closing because they are $1 billion in debt. They also say that the business will be picked up by many other companies (that are going to have to follow the same $15 min wage).

I'm not even disagreeing with a lot of the comments in this thread. Only point I'm trying to make is trying to pin SA closing on the $15 minimum wage is disingenuous. This particular business is closing because they were a disaster that couldn't turn a profit. They would be with a $5 minimum wage or a $20 minimum wage.

What is happening with the Sports brick and mortar is no different than what happened with other niche markets.

For example, one of the first to get hit were the "Magic" stores. Back in the late 90's, amateur magicians were complaining about the disappearance of the few magic retail brick and mortar stores. But the symptoms were all the same; they would go check out the items in person in the brick and mortar store, then go buy the item for a 30% discount online, even when shipping was added in.

Hobby & Train Stores went through the same issue a few years ago. Same problem. People dont want to pay the higher prices that a brick and mortar store has, simply due to the brick and mortar store having a much higher overhead. They'd rather purchase online and save money.

Certain items carry a high shipping charge, and its easier for brick and mortar store to over come the internet sales when you have a price for shipping.

But when you factor in excess wages for unskilled workers, the brick and mortar store's overhead are going to spike again to where online sales and high shipping prices are still cheaper than a brick and mortar store. When that happens, its game over for the brick and mortar in that particular niche market.

And what are these brick and mortars being replaced with? Amazon, and their fleet of robots. Problem solved.

Meh, I've never bought anything from there so it's no big deal. I love Sports Academy and I do most of my tee shirts there and a lot of my foot wear. Most of my foot wear I buy there because of their prices and their selections.

(04-30-2016 11:58 AM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  

(04-29-2016 10:16 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Who cares? It's a dead store.

The last time I was in a Sports Authority it was painfully obvious why they were in a world of hurt. They sucked.

You do, or you wouldn't have told us you didn't.

Bless your heart!

(04-29-2016 10:16 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Who cares? It's a dead store.

The last time I was in a Sports Authority it was painfully obvious why they were in a world of hurt. They sucked.

One of the emptiest stores I've ever been in and I used to work at Target, especially on the weekdays and non-Holiday season.

(04-30-2016 10:29 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  The crux of the problem for the future of SA is the $15 minimum wage. Companies like SA have entered bankruptcy many times in the past, pared down the under performing stores, then returned to profitability. What SA is saying is that there is no way that strategy works when they are facing a $15 minimum wage.

You can call them poorly run. However, let's see if you call all companies that have to move or shut down due to the $15 minimum wage "poorly run."

All they're going to do is scale down their hourlies and ramp up their salaried managers and automation, such as self check out. There's nothing like real live people. We'll see many people, like newspapers, go online but warehouse workers will still be needed.

This is the dreaded "Chapter 18" bankruptcy. They filed a Chapter 11 reorganization plan because of the $1.1 billion in debt. They are now looking like converting it to Chapter 7 liquidation because of the $15/hour minimum wage. Or perhaps more correctly, they are trying to do a liquidation inside a Chapter 11, and it looks as if the judge is maybe going to force the into a 7 so she can appoint a trustee to oversee the distribution of proceeds to creditors.

They are not necessarily in debt because they are poorly run. They may well be running things as well as that model can be run. It's just the wrong business model. Online merchants have a huge advantage over brick-and-mortar retailers because of low overhead. You could say that picking the wrong business model is an example of being poorly run. But what appears to be going on here is that in trying to prepare their reorganization plan, they have come to the realization that their model won't work no matter how well it is run, because the $15 minimum wage greatly increases their disadvantage versus less labor intensive business models.

This is just another permutation of the same phenomenon as the move to kiosks by fast food restaurants. When it becomes uneconomic to do things one way, businesses will go to another way--at least the smart ones will. I can remember when Wal-Mart pushed "American made." But that became economically infeasible within their business model.

(05-01-2016 05:44 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  This is the dreaded "Chapter 18" bankruptcy. They filed a Chapter 11 reorganization plan because of the $1.1 billion in debt. They are now looking like converting it to Chapter 7 liquidation because of the $15/hour minimum wage. Or perhaps more correctly, they are trying to do a liquidation inside a Chapter 11, and it looks as if the judge is maybe going to force the into a 7 so she can appoint a trustee to oversee the distribution of proceeds to creditors.

They are not necessarily in debt because they are poorly run. They may well be running things as well as that model can be run. It's just the wrong business model. Online merchants have a huge advantage over brick-and-mortar retailers because of low overhead. You could say that picking the wrong business model is an example of being poorly run. But what appears to be going on here is that in trying to prepare their reorganization plan, they have come to the realization that their model won't work no matter how well it is run, because the $15 minimum wage greatly increases their disadvantage versus less labor intensive business models.

This is just another permutation of the same phenomenon as the move to kiosks by fast food restaurants. When it becomes uneconomic to do things one way, businesses will go to another way--at least the smart ones will. I can remember when Wal-Mart pushed "American made." But that became economically infeasible within their business model.

Thank you. HappyAppy needs to read your comment. The 15 dollar wage for sure had a play in their decision to liquidate vs. reorganize and make another go of it.

(05-01-2016 08:45 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(05-01-2016 05:44 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  This is the dreaded "Chapter 18" bankruptcy. They filed a Chapter 11 reorganization plan because of the $1.1 billion in debt. They are now looking like converting it to Chapter 7 liquidation because of the $15/hour minimum wage. Or perhaps more correctly, they are trying to do a liquidation inside a Chapter 11, and it looks as if the judge is maybe going to force the into a 7 so she can appoint a trustee to oversee the distribution of proceeds to creditors.

They are not necessarily in debt because they are poorly run. They may well be running things as well as that model can be run. It's just the wrong business model. Online merchants have a huge advantage over brick-and-mortar retailers because of low overhead. You could say that picking the wrong business model is an example of being poorly run. But what appears to be going on here is that in trying to prepare their reorganization plan, they have come to the realization that their model won't work no matter how well it is run, because the $15 minimum wage greatly increases their disadvantage versus less labor intensive business models.

This is just another permutation of the same phenomenon as the move to kiosks by fast food restaurants. When it becomes uneconomic to do things one way, businesses will go to another way--at least the smart ones will. I can remember when Wal-Mart pushed "American made." But that became economically infeasible within their business model.

Thank you. HappyAppy needs to read your comment. The 15 dollar wage for sure had a play in their decision to liquidate vs. reorganize and make another go of it.

Point me in the direction of anything the article that says that. That's the point I'm trying to make. You are quoting Owl. Not saying he's wrong here. He might be right. My point is if the $15 minimum wage is a part of this company (that is $1 billion in dept before a $15 minimum wage is on the books) going into bankruptcy, do a better job then hacking together an article to look like it's saying something that it isn't. I'm guessing after going back and reading the article, you can see that, so you are trying to move the goal posts to prove me wrong somehow.

Guys, if all their competitors have to pay their employees 15 bucks an hour, there's little reason to blame that.

What is really driving this is INVENTORY costs.

Fixed site stores have massive inventory costs. Online ordering stores have much less of those costs.

(05-01-2016 11:25 AM)HappyAppy Wrote:  

(05-01-2016 08:45 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(05-01-2016 05:44 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  This is the dreaded "Chapter 18" bankruptcy. They filed a Chapter 11 reorganization plan because of the $1.1 billion in debt. They are now looking like converting it to Chapter 7 liquidation because of the $15/hour minimum wage. Or perhaps more correctly, they are trying to do a liquidation inside a Chapter 11, and it looks as if the judge is maybe going to force the into a 7 so she can appoint a trustee to oversee the distribution of proceeds to creditors.

They are not necessarily in debt because they are poorly run. They may well be running things as well as that model can be run. It's just the wrong business model. Online merchants have a huge advantage over brick-and-mortar retailers because of low overhead. You could say that picking the wrong business model is an example of being poorly run. But what appears to be going on here is that in trying to prepare their reorganization plan, they have come to the realization that their model won't work no matter how well it is run, because the $15 minimum wage greatly increases their disadvantage versus less labor intensive business models.

This is just another permutation of the same phenomenon as the move to kiosks by fast food restaurants. When it becomes uneconomic to do things one way, businesses will go to another way--at least the smart ones will. I can remember when Wal-Mart pushed "American made." But that became economically infeasible within their business model.

Thank you. HappyAppy needs to read your comment. The 15 dollar wage for sure had a play in their decision to liquidate vs. reorganize and make another go of it.

Point me in the direction of anything the article that says that. That's the point I'm trying to make. You are quoting Owl. Not saying he's wrong here. He might be right. My point is if the $15 minimum wage is a part of this company (that is $1 billion in dept before a $15 minimum wage is on the books) going into bankruptcy, do a better job then hacking together an article to look like it's saying something that it isn't. I'm guessing after going back and reading the article, you can see that, so you are trying to move the goal posts to prove me wrong somehow.

Just read the fcking article. It is clear if you have comprehension skills. Owl came to the same conclusion and his skills are better than mine.

They did not file 11 because of the $15 minimum wage, they filed because of the $1.1 billion debt. That debt does not mean that they managed the company poorly, but that they had a business model that has difficulty competing with online merchants.

Nothing forces you to look at a reality like Chapter 11. Having looked at reality, they realize that among other things, a higher minimum wage is going to make it harder to compete with the online merchants. So now they are looking at liquidation.

So the $15 wage did not cause them to file 11, but it may be what converts the 11 to a 7. And for the record, that is precisely what the quotes say. If you don't understand how bankruptcy works well enough to pick up on that, I'm sorry.

10-4. Got it loud and clear. They didn't file bankruptcy because of the minimum wage. They might be deciding to liquidate and throw in the towel because of the minimum wage, in your opinion. Maybe.

I don't disagree with any of that.

I dint think the article is saying that. I think the original post was put together in an intellectually misleading way to convey that, but I guess we are just arguing over semantics at this point.

End of the day, SA is closing its doors. Their business will go to other companies (online and brick and morter) that are able to compete, even with that horrid $15 minimum wage, because they have a better business model.

(05-01-2016 03:06 PM)HappyAppy Wrote:  I dint think the article is saying that.

That's precisely what it's saying.

Quote:End of the day, SA is closing its doors. Their business will go to other companies (online and brick and morter) that are able to compete, even with that horrid $15 minimum wage, because they have a better business model.

The business will go to online companies because their lower overhead is largely that they are a less employee-intensive model. SA would not be closing its doors if it could work out a deal in 11. It can't because the numbers don't work, and the higher minimum wage is a big part of that. And the article does say that.

I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.

I think a big factor is that you don't seem to grasp the difference between Chapter 11 and Chapter 7. It's like all the people running around screaming that if GM had gone bankrupt, it would have destroyed the car industry and the economy. If it had gone 7, maybe so. But it wasn't going 7. It did in fact go 11, that was necessary in order to screw the bondholders in favor of the unions. That wouldn't have happened in a conventional 11, but GM would never have closed its doors, either.

(05-01-2016 11:58 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Guys, if all their competitors have to pay their employees 15 bucks an hour, there's little reason to blame that.

What is really driving this is INVENTORY costs.

Fixed site stores have massive inventory costs. Online ordering stores have much less of those costs.

Based upon the article, one of their competitors is also going out of business. (Actually, they have already shut down. I just checked their site.) Their business was based in CA and two other western states.

When you artificially inflate a wage of an unskilled worker, you are not going to end up with a lot of people making more money. You are going to end up with a lot of people out of work.

(04-29-2016 09:03 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  Why Sports Authority is throwing in the towel and closing all of its stores

When struggling retailer Sports Authority filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy last month in the face of more than $1 billion in debt, the company indicated that it had two options going forward.

One of those was to shed underperforming stores and emerge from bankruptcy as an intact, but pared-down company. The other was to sell everything and cease operating.

On Tuesday, the company appeared to choose the latter.

. . .

“With the minimum wage going up to $15 an hour and more people turning to online shopping, more stores are going to close,” Lempert said. “It’s fine to say that everyone should have a living wage. But the money has to come from somewhere.”

http://www.pasadenastarnews.com/business...its-stores

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What a bunch of BS. They are closing because their store size was too big and they didn't have enough in sales.

(04-30-2016 10:29 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(04-30-2016 09:21 AM)HappyAppy Wrote:  

(04-30-2016 07:53 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(04-29-2016 10:10 PM)HappyAppy Wrote:  

(04-29-2016 09:38 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  The underlying theme is labor can't compete with the internet and $15 per hour is going to make it worse. The only retailers that will be left is Walmart and convenience stores. People still need gas, cigs, drugs, and household goods. Anything that can wait 2 days you get free shipping and lower prices on Amazon Prime. $15 per hour is going crush us.

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That's all well and good. You bring up some good points, should have led with that. I I was just pointing out the original post seems to say the $15 minimum wage had something to do with Sports Authority shutting down when that couldn't be further from the truth.

SA plainly stated the wage paradigm was a factor in the decision...not the only one.

Care to point me in the direction of the part in the article where they say that? All I see is one guy saying the wage will be a factor in future decisions.

SA does not have $1 billion in debt because of a $15 minimum wage. They are shutting down because they are a poorly run company that can't compete. All that happened before a $15 minimum wage.

The crux of the problem for the future of SA is the $15 minimum wage. Companies like SA have entered bankruptcy many times in the past, pared down the under performing stores, then returned to profitability. What SA is saying is that there is no way that strategy works when they are facing a $15 minimum wage.

You can call them poorly run. However, let's see if you call all companies that have to move or shut down due to the $15 minimum wage "poorly run."

If the company can't work it into their plans for 6 years into the future(Cali is 2021 for $15), they deserve to shut down.