I said this on another thread like 2 days ago. I thought those in the B10 would be more interested in Notre Dame and North Dakota than they would be in UConn and Arizona St. I'm a little surprised but not totally

That's a step in the right direction. Hopefully a few more invites will go out. I look forward to seeing the Irish on the ice more.

(03-22-2016 07:08 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  I said this on another thread like 2 days ago. I thought those in the B10 would be more interested in Notre Dame and North Dakota than they would be in UConn and Arizona St. I'm a little surprised but not totally

Maybe for the Gophers and Badgers, but further east I'd expect the Big Ten schools would be most interested in Notre Dame and Arizona State, what with one being a PAC-12 school and the other being Notre Dame.

(03-22-2016 07:08 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  I said this on another thread like 2 days ago. I thought those in the B10 would be more interested in Notre Dame and North Dakota than they would be in UConn and Arizona St. I'm a little surprised but not totally

If it was a hockey only decision, UND would already be in B1G hockey. Minnie was and is a very heated rival and we've led the nation in attendance for some years now.

We have a former governor now as interim prez and former Minnesota congessman coming into replace him July 1st. Imagine there would have been rumors coming out, not just from Gopher fans. Our fans are as anti Big as Notre Dame fans.

(03-22-2016 07:52 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(03-22-2016 07:08 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  I said this on another thread like 2 days ago. I thought those in the B10 would be more interested in Notre Dame and North Dakota than they would be in UConn and Arizona St. I'm a little surprised but not totally

If it was a hockey only decision, UND would already be in B1G hockey. Minnie was and is a very heated rival and we've led the nation in attendance for some years now.

We have a former governor now as interim.Prez and former Minnesota congessman coming into replace him July 1st. Imagine there would have been rumors coming out, not just from Gopher fans.

Im pretty confident almost all our fanbase would welcome nodak to the big in hockey. Sure we hate you guys but no one can argue yalls fan base and tradition in the sport. Hopefully the invite is already on your schools desk to join us with ND.

Notre Dame is the w**** of conference affiliation. You never get all of her and even if you're getting a piece, rest assured that she's already in bed with someone else.

(03-22-2016 07:59 PM)HuskyU Wrote:  Notre Dame is the w**** of conference affiliation. You never get all of her and even if you're getting a piece, rest assured that she's already in bed with someone else.

Hockey affiliate is fine its just hockey.

The ACC deal is bad for ACC football.
When ND is good they hurt the conference.
When their bad that is also criticized no win situation.

(03-22-2016 07:59 PM)gopher952 Wrote:  

(03-22-2016 07:52 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(03-22-2016 07:08 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  I said this on another thread like 2 days ago. I thought those in the B10 would be more interested in Notre Dame and North Dakota than they would be in UConn and Arizona St. I'm a little surprised but not totally

If it was a hockey only decision, UND would already be in B1G hockey. Minnie was and is a very heated rival and we've led the nation in attendance for some years now.

We have a former governor now as interim.Prez and former Minnesota congessman coming into replace him July 1st. Imagine there would have been rumors coming out, not just from Gopher fans.

Im pretty confident almost all our fanbase would welcome nodak to the big in hockey. Sure we hate you guys but no one can argue yalls fan base and tradition in the sport. Hopefully the invite is already on your schools desk to join us with ND.

Maybe it is being discussed. Always thought our academics were frowned on , but Minnesota and Wisconsin hockey fan bases need to charged up and UND would sure do that.

Miami would do a lot for Notre Dame and Ohio St and their undergraduate academics are stellar. Minnie and Sconie need to be thrown a bone though.

(03-22-2016 07:47 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(03-22-2016 07:08 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  I said this on another thread like 2 days ago. I thought those in the B10 would be more interested in Notre Dame and North Dakota than they would be in UConn and Arizona St. I'm a little surprised but not totally

Maybe for the Gophers and Badgers, but further east I'd expect the Big Ten schools would be most interested in Notre Dame and Arizona State, what with one being a PAC-12 school and the other being Notre Dame.

At least for the moment, I would pass on Arizona State.

I get it, the B1G has a "relationship" with the Pac-12, but Arizona State has to first "prove the concept of college hockey in the Desert Southwest" is going to work. There are many reasons to suspect it will work, but there are also many reasons to suspect it will NOT work: (1) no incumbent tradition, (2) Arizona is not a hockey hotbed for talent, (3) the local NHL franchise is an absolute disaster and has had near-zero success in penetrating the market (if not for Gary Bettman and his stubbornness, the Coyotes would have left town years ago).

North Dakota and Notre Dame --- the twin UNDs --- are the obvious choices if we expand by 2. North Dakota is one of the best programs in college hockey and has the obvious tradition with Minnesota (also tradition, though less so, with Wisconsin). We need some more regional B1G programs for Minnesota & Wisconsin. As it stands now, 5 of the 7 programs will be east of Chicago, the B1G's traditional "center of gravity." That is geographically lopsided.

Invite those 2, and ASU will always be there in the future if "the concept of college hockey in the Desert Southwest" DOES work. They can join the NCHC or WCHA for now: they'd always be available if/when the B1G wanted to go beyond 8 (which might happen when some other current B1G school starts a program).

I suspect ND wanted this because of the ASU thing. It puts them where they love to be seen...out west. I suspect the ASU affiliation announcement is due very soon. Ugh.

(03-22-2016 08:57 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  I suspect ND wanted this because of the ASU thing. It puts them where they love to be seen...out west. I suspect the ASU affiliation announcement is due very soon. Ugh.

I'd bet heavily on this. This Notre Dame move really did come out of nowhere, but everything that the Big Ten is looking at from a global perspective has been pointing to them adding Arizona State for quite a long time. Adding North Dakota is a hockey fan wishful thinking expansion in the same way that football fans want to add Boise State or basketball fans want to add Wichita State. Those would be competitively great moves, but they don't hit the market, academic, demographic and other off-the-field money and prestige metrics that university presidents care about. For better or worse, expansion (at least at the very elite power levels) is about a completely different set of criteria compared to what the average fan might want.

Notre Dame gets the B1G in New York, Arizona State gets them out west.

The next logical steps would be Rutgers and one of USC, UCLA, or Stanford to get to 10. Nebraska and one other school (Pac 12, Northwestern, Indiana, etc.) would get the B1G to 12:

B1G West - Arizona State, Pac 12 School #2, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Nebraska, Northwestern/Iowa/Indiana/Pac 12 school #3
B1G East - Notre Dame, Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, Penn State, Rutgers

At some point the Pac 12 starts their own league - how fast just comes down to who among Air Force, Denver, and Colorado College, if any, the Pac 12 is willing to accept as affiliates.

(03-22-2016 09:20 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  I'd bet heavily on this. This Notre Dame move really did come out of nowhere, but everything that the Big Ten is looking at from a global perspective has been pointing to them adding Arizona State for quite a long time. Adding North Dakota is a hockey fan wishful thinking expansion in the same way that football fans want to add Boise State or basketball fans want to add Wichita State. Those would be competitively great moves, but they don't hit the market, academic, demographic and other off-the-field money and prestige metrics that university presidents care about. For better or worse, expansion (at least at the very elite power levels) is about a completely different set of criteria compared to what the average fan might want.

Yeah, that's true. North Dakota is a wish, ASU is a reality.

The interesting thing on Arizona State is that they are reportedly close to announcing a deal on an arena that they will share with the Coyotes. That would also be good for the "prestige metrics" ---- look at this, big league arena!!!

But I also wonder if ASU hockey's ceiling is what Ohio State hockey is (Ohio State hockey typically isn't very good)? Big arena, sizeable market, but a fanbase that doesn't have a whole lot of die-hards because hockey isn't highly ingrained into the local culture.

Extending that analogy further, there are more than a few similarities between the Coyotes (NHL in the Desert has been a debacle, and it's not just the arena's fault no matter what folk like Bettman say) and the Blue Jackets.

I'll believe Pac-12 hockey when I see it. Even with ASU, we remain a looooooong way from "critical mass" for a Pac-12 conference. Thus, the B1G choosing ASU hockey shouldn't be viewed as a short-term marriage of convenience. We will be STUCK with them.

(03-22-2016 06:30 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Could Miami U be heading for B1G hockey? Ariz St may want UNLV and PAC schools to grow with, and that is not possible with B1G hockey. Miami has the facilities and program to compete.

B1G hockey has proved that hockey fans are very regional and want local trips. ND just showed that.

Would be great. Miami has a long history with ND, Mich St, UofM and Ohio State from the CCHA days

(03-22-2016 09:31 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  Notre Dame gets the B1G in New York, Arizona State gets them out west.

The next logical steps would be Rutgers and one of USC, UCLA, or Stanford to get to 10. Nebraska and one other school (Pac 12, Northwestern, Indiana, etc.) would get the B1G to 12:

B1G West - Arizona State, Pac 12 School #2, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Nebraska, Northwestern/Iowa/Indiana/Pac 12 school #3
B1G East - Notre Dame, Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, Penn State, Rutgers

At some point the Pac 12 starts their own league - how fast just comes down to who among Air Force, Denver, and Colorado College, if any, the Pac 12 is willing to accept as affiliates.

The Pac has proven over the years that they are willing to take in affiliates in Olympic sports.

San Diego State - men's soccer
Cal State Bakersfield, Boise, Cal Poly - wrestling

UC Santa Barbara was an affiliate in men's swimming & diving from 2011-2015.

If the Pac decides to start up hockey they'll take all three of Air Force, Denver and Colorado College as affiliates.

(03-22-2016 09:50 PM)NittanyLion Wrote:  

(03-22-2016 09:20 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  I'd bet heavily on this. This Notre Dame move really did come out of nowhere, but everything that the Big Ten is looking at from a global perspective has been pointing to them adding Arizona State for quite a long time. Adding North Dakota is a hockey fan wishful thinking expansion in the same way that football fans want to add Boise State or basketball fans want to add Wichita State. Those would be competitively great moves, but they don't hit the market, academic, demographic and other off-the-field money and prestige metrics that university presidents care about. For better or worse, expansion (at least at the very elite power levels) is about a completely different set of criteria compared to what the average fan might want.

Yeah, that's true. North Dakota is a wish, ASU is a reality.

The interesting thing on Arizona State is that they are reportedly close to announcing a deal on an arena that they will share with the Coyotes. That would also be good for the "prestige metrics" ---- look at this, big league arena!!!

But I also wonder if ASU hockey's ceiling is what Ohio State hockey is (Ohio State hockey typically isn't very good)? Big arena, sizeable market, but a fanbase that doesn't have a whole lot of die-hards because hockey isn't highly ingrained into the local culture.

Extending that analogy further, there are more than a few similarities between the Coyotes (NHL in the Desert has been a debacle, and it's not just the arena's fault no matter what folk like Bettman say) and the Blue Jackets.

I'll believe Pac-12 hockey when I see it. Even with ASU, we remain a looooooong way from "critical mass" for a Pac-12 conference. Thus, the B1G choosing ASU hockey shouldn't be viewed as a short-term marriage of convenience. We will be STUCK with them.

Look at it this way. Everyone gets to leave the frozen midwest for a couple days in the southwest.

(03-22-2016 09:20 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(03-22-2016 08:57 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  I suspect ND wanted this because of the ASU thing. It puts them where they love to be seen...out west. I suspect the ASU affiliation announcement is due very soon. Ugh.

I'd bet heavily on this. This Notre Dame move really did come out of nowhere, but everything that the Big Ten is looking at from a global perspective has been pointing to them adding Arizona State for quite a long time. Adding North Dakota is a hockey fan wishful thinking expansion in the same way that football fans want to add Boise State or basketball fans want to add Wichita State. Those would be competitively great moves, but they don't hit the market, academic, demographic and other off-the-field money and prestige metrics that university presidents care about. For better or worse, expansion (at least at the very elite power levels) is about a completely different set of criteria compared to what the average fan might want.

Don't disagree on your points except that a more appropriate North Dakota hockey comparison is with Alabama football or Kentucky or Kansas basketball not with Boise St football or Wichita St basketball. The fans are that into it and we have the NHL star alums and future stars to prove it. UMinn has some of the same type fans, but their balloon has been severely deflated with B1G hockey. BC and BU might be the only other schools that are so geared for hockey.

(03-22-2016 09:50 PM)NittanyLion Wrote:  

(03-22-2016 09:20 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  I'd bet heavily on this. This Notre Dame move really did come out of nowhere, but everything that the Big Ten is looking at from a global perspective has been pointing to them adding Arizona State for quite a long time. Adding North Dakota is a hockey fan wishful thinking expansion in the same way that football fans want to add Boise State or basketball fans want to add Wichita State. Those would be competitively great moves, but they don't hit the market, academic, demographic and other off-the-field money and prestige metrics that university presidents care about. For better or worse, expansion (at least at the very elite power levels) is about a completely different set of criteria compared to what the average fan might want.

Yeah, that's true. North Dakota is a wish, ASU is a reality.

The interesting thing on Arizona State is that they are reportedly close to announcing a deal on an arena that they will share with the Coyotes. That would also be good for the "prestige metrics" ---- look at this, big league arena!!!

But I also wonder if ASU hockey's ceiling is what Ohio State hockey is (Ohio State hockey typically isn't very good)? Big arena, sizeable market, but a fanbase that doesn't have a whole lot of die-hards because hockey isn't highly ingrained into the local culture.

Extending that analogy further, there are more than a few similarities between the Coyotes (NHL in the Desert has been a debacle, and it's not just the arena's fault no matter what folk like Bettman say) and the Blue Jackets.

I'll believe Pac-12 hockey when I see it. Even with ASU, we remain a looooooong way from "critical mass" for a Pac-12 conference. Thus, the B1G choosing ASU hockey shouldn't be viewed as a short-term marriage of convenience. We will be STUCK with them.

The Coyotes don't draw because the Glendale Arena requires such a commute for central and east valley residents. Glendale was foolish for thinking that the commute wouldn't be a problem expecially for weeknight games. Real estate investors really sold Glendale a bill of goods, thinking it would be as easy as attracting Cardinals fans on weekends.

Curtain off the upper deck and it could work for ASU if they build in Tempe. But ASU needs hockey teams at UNLV or Arizona to generate fierce rivalries. Joining the B1G could be it's kiss of death long term.

As far as North Dakota hockey, we will be fine without the B1G.

(03-22-2016 09:50 PM)NittanyLion Wrote:  

(03-22-2016 09:20 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  I'd bet heavily on this. This Notre Dame move really did come out of nowhere, but everything that the Big Ten is looking at from a global perspective has been pointing to them adding Arizona State for quite a long time. Adding North Dakota is a hockey fan wishful thinking expansion in the same way that football fans want to add Boise State or basketball fans want to add Wichita State. Those would be competitively great moves, but they don't hit the market, academic, demographic and other off-the-field money and prestige metrics that university presidents care about. For better or worse, expansion (at least at the very elite power levels) is about a completely different set of criteria compared to what the average fan might want.

Yeah, that's true. North Dakota is a wish, ASU is a reality.

The interesting thing on Arizona State is that they are reportedly close to announcing a deal on an arena that they will share with the Coyotes. That would also be good for the "prestige metrics" ---- look at this, big league arena!!!

But I also wonder if ASU hockey's ceiling is what Ohio State hockey is (Ohio State hockey typically isn't very good)? Big arena, sizeable market, but a fanbase that doesn't have a whole lot of die-hards because hockey isn't highly ingrained into the local culture.

Extending that analogy further, there are more than a few similarities between the Coyotes (NHL in the Desert has been a debacle, and it's not just the arena's fault no matter what folk like Bettman say) and the Blue Jackets.

I'll believe Pac-12 hockey when I see it. Even with ASU, we remain a looooooong way from "critical mass" for a Pac-12 conference. Thus, the B1G choosing ASU hockey shouldn't be viewed as a short-term marriage of convenience. We will be STUCK with them.

ASU's competitiveness will be interesting. They certainly get to sell an atmosphere that is VERY different for recruits than virtually any other hockey school.

Regardless, the point is that the Big Ten *wants* to be stuck with them. I still recall Jim Delany speaking a few years ago in the midst of conference realignment moves that the Big Ten actually has more alums living in the Phoenix market than the Pac-12 itself. The Phoenix metro area specifically has one of the highest concentrations (if not the single highest concentration) of Big Ten alums that isn't in the conference footprint. Whether ASU has a great hockey culture won't matter nearly as much as the deluge of transplanted Chicagoans, Michiganders and Minnesotans buying up tickets to watch Michigan, MSU, Minnesota and now Notre Dame. Look at any Cubs, Bears, Bulls or Blackhawks game that is played in Phoenix - they're taken over by transplanted Chicagoans in the way that New Yorkers fans take over road games in Florida. ASU will effectively get a full slate of Midwestern Big Ten teams that would be the best possible attendance draws for them (even if other Pac-12 schools were to add hockey teams).

(03-22-2016 07:59 PM)HuskyU Wrote:  Notre Dame is the w**** of conference affiliation. You never get all of her and even if you're getting a piece, rest assured that she's already in bed with someone else.

Darn those Irish showing independence and not fully joining a conference and succumbing to peer pressure.