(12-21-2015 03:38 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  If I were the SEC, It would depend on what my goal was.

For 16: Kansas and Oklahoma
For 18: Kansas, Oklahoma, Texas, and West Virginia

Kansas for basketball.
Oklahoma for football, basketball, and national appeal.
Texas because it's Texas.
West Virginia for its likeness to SEC programs along with a decent football program and a good basketball program.

I would consider Oklahoma St only if Oklahoma declined.
I would consider Baylor only if Texas declined.
I would not consider TCU or Texas Tech. TCU is football-centric while Baylor has strong football and basketball. Texas is too far away.
I would not consider Kansas St. Their football and basketball are both typically okay, but neither program are as Kansas is to basketball.
I would consider Iowa St if the goal was beyond 18.

(03-12-2016 12:06 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-11-2016 11:37 PM)murrdcu Wrote:  

(12-21-2015 03:38 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  If I were the SEC, It would depend on what my goal was.

For 16: Kansas and Oklahoma
For 18: Kansas, Oklahoma, Texas, and West Virginia

Kansas for basketball.
Oklahoma for football, basketball, and national appeal.
Texas because it's Texas.
West Virginia for its likeness to SEC programs along with a decent football program and a good basketball program.

I would consider Oklahoma St only if Oklahoma declined.
I would consider Baylor only if Texas declined.
I would not consider TCU or Texas Tech. TCU is football-centric while Baylor has strong football and basketball. Texas is too far away.
I would not consider Kansas St. Their football and basketball are both typically okay, but neither program are as Kansas is to basketball.
I would consider Iowa St if the goal was beyond 18.

(03-11-2016 07:07 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-11-2016 05:58 PM)murrdcu Wrote:  

(03-05-2016 04:33 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  True, but adding OSU doesn't really hurt any of the teams east of the Mississippi. From our perspective, we want ZERO Big 12 South teams coming in and diminishing our SEC recruiting advantage in Texas nor do we want to be in a division that's basically the Big 12 again (Mizzou will probably agree with that sentiment as well). So while we could tolerate ONE okie school for the purpose of conference goals, someone like KU, VT, NC State, FSU etc. is an infinitely more valuable use of #16 than OSU

I agree with this from a litigation stand point. If the SEC lands OU at 15, if we were to grab another school from the B12, Baylor would not be the only one sueing us for any damages they would take from a smaller TV contract and other revenues by the B12 taking in replacement schools. WVU might be the exception, but we'll ignore that one for now. I would first contact VT about that 16th spot. If they are still content in the ACC, the next two options should be NC State and FSU.

FSU would bring the greatest value to the overall contract with excellent match ups, but would greatly harm and possibly begin the collapse of the ACC. If the SEC rounded off with NC State, we'd be giving up on landing UNC and just doing what is best for the conference.

I would absolutely love for the SEC to move to 16 with Oklahoma and Virginia Tech, or Oklahoma and Florida State. I don't think we can get N.C. State unless we did something unthinkable and took Duke, UNC and N.C. State. We'd probably also have to take both Virginia's to get it done. At that point you may as well go after Notre Dame and settle for Georgia Tech to complete it to 20. That's not my dream SEC.

If the SEC were to go to 20 the only acceptable programs to me would be Florida State, Oklahoma, Clemson, and Texas to 18. To 20 you need to go ahead and complete the footprint with a North Carolina and Virginia school. But the first four fit athletically. The latter two would struggle to be middling.

I still think NC State could have an A&M moment of wanting greater visibility while pulling a Mizzou with a groundswell movement out of the ACC if there was an open spot available. VT seems more willing to listen than act, but I would still give them a call again.

N.C. State has a problem that they are incapable of addressing. All of the state universities fall under the Board of Regents (Governors) or what ever they are called of the University of North Carolina System. That body is composed largely of Tar Heel graduates. N.C. State cannot leave without the blessing of North Carolina period. If they wanted to leave on their own they could not. It's a state issue, not an university one. Virginia Tech may be under some sense of obligation to Virginia but they are not constrained in the same way that North Carolina State is.

Hmmmm....so NC State would need political muscle and massive support from NCSU to get that going. Ouch. So, if VT said no, and then NCSU couldn't pull the trigger, FSU would probably be the most likely to move. If ESPN blocked that move, look back to B12 at KU or WVU. All those fail, ride it out at 15.

(03-12-2016 01:03 AM)murrdcu Wrote:  

(12-21-2015 03:38 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  If I were the SEC, It would depend on what my goal was.

For 16: Kansas and Oklahoma
For 18: Kansas, Oklahoma, Texas, and West Virginia

Kansas for basketball.
Oklahoma for football, basketball, and national appeal.
Texas because it's Texas.
West Virginia for its likeness to SEC programs along with a decent football program and a good basketball program.

I would consider Oklahoma St only if Oklahoma declined.
I would consider Baylor only if Texas declined.
I would not consider TCU or Texas Tech. TCU is football-centric while Baylor has strong football and basketball. Texas is too far away.
I would not consider Kansas St. Their football and basketball are both typically okay, but neither program are as Kansas is to basketball.
I would consider Iowa St if the goal was beyond 18.

(03-12-2016 12:06 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-11-2016 11:37 PM)murrdcu Wrote:  

(12-21-2015 03:38 PM)BePcr07 Wrote:  If I were the SEC, It would depend on what my goal was.

For 16: Kansas and Oklahoma
For 18: Kansas, Oklahoma, Texas, and West Virginia

Kansas for basketball.
Oklahoma for football, basketball, and national appeal.
Texas because it's Texas.
West Virginia for its likeness to SEC programs along with a decent football program and a good basketball program.

I would consider Oklahoma St only if Oklahoma declined.
I would consider Baylor only if Texas declined.
I would not consider TCU or Texas Tech. TCU is football-centric while Baylor has strong football and basketball. Texas is too far away.
I would not consider Kansas St. Their football and basketball are both typically okay, but neither program are as Kansas is to basketball.
I would consider Iowa St if the goal was beyond 18.

(03-11-2016 07:07 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-11-2016 05:58 PM)murrdcu Wrote:  I agree with this from a litigation stand point. If the SEC lands OU at 15, if we were to grab another school from the B12, Baylor would not be the only one sueing us for any damages they would take from a smaller TV contract and other revenues by the B12 taking in replacement schools. WVU might be the exception, but we'll ignore that one for now. I would first contact VT about that 16th spot. If they are still content in the ACC, the next two options should be NC State and FSU.

FSU would bring the greatest value to the overall contract with excellent match ups, but would greatly harm and possibly begin the collapse of the ACC. If the SEC rounded off with NC State, we'd be giving up on landing UNC and just doing what is best for the conference.

I would absolutely love for the SEC to move to 16 with Oklahoma and Virginia Tech, or Oklahoma and Florida State. I don't think we can get N.C. State unless we did something unthinkable and took Duke, UNC and N.C. State. We'd probably also have to take both Virginia's to get it done. At that point you may as well go after Notre Dame and settle for Georgia Tech to complete it to 20. That's not my dream SEC.

If the SEC were to go to 20 the only acceptable programs to me would be Florida State, Oklahoma, Clemson, and Texas to 18. To 20 you need to go ahead and complete the footprint with a North Carolina and Virginia school. But the first four fit athletically. The latter two would struggle to be middling.

I still think NC State could have an A&M moment of wanting greater visibility while pulling a Mizzou with a groundswell movement out of the ACC if there was an open spot available. VT seems more willing to listen than act, but I would still give them a call again.

N.C. State has a problem that they are incapable of addressing. All of the state universities fall under the Board of Regents (Governors) or what ever they are called of the University of North Carolina System. That body is composed largely of Tar Heel graduates. N.C. State cannot leave without the blessing of North Carolina period. If they wanted to leave on their own they could not. It's a state issue, not an university one. Virginia Tech may be under some sense of obligation to Virginia but they are not constrained in the same way that North Carolina State is.

Hmmmm....so NC State would need political muscle and massive support from NCSU to get that going. Ouch. So, if VT said no, and then NCSU couldn't pull the trigger, FSU would probably be the most likely to move. If ESPN blocked that move, look back to B12 at KU or WVU. All those fail, ride it out at 15.

ESPN might not want FSU to leave the ACC, but if the Noles wanted out ESPN would want to keep them in their inventory. I think making noise about leaving to go to FOX would be all it would take for F.S.U. to make that move.

(03-12-2016 03:28 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-12-2016 01:03 AM)murrdcu Wrote:  Hmmmm....so NC State would need political muscle and massive support from NCSU to get that going. Ouch. So, if VT said no, and then NCSU couldn't pull the trigger, FSU would probably be the most likely to move. If ESPN blocked that move, look back to B12 at KU or WVU. All those fail, ride it out at 15.

ESPN might not want FSU to leave the ACC, but if the Noles wanted out ESPN would want to keep them in their inventory. I think making noise about leaving to go to FOX would be all it would take for F.S.U. to make that move.

The timing would seem to be perfect for this summer and fall for all that to happen. OU demanding the B12 get with the times by giving them a list of demands to meet for their conference to stay competitive over time with the SEC and B1G. I wouldn't be surprised if the B12 Presidents wouldn't mind Boren and OU just leaving if they are so unhappy. For the ACC, if their GOR is null and void without an ACCN started/delivered to them by some date that has already passed or is coming up, then ACC schools could afford to leave around the same time OU could be exiting the B12.

I'm a big fan of quality over quantity in this round of expansion.

If the SEC did expand to 16 with OU and FSU, I thought a nine game conference schedule with 3 yearly rivals could work. Every team would play one another every other year.

What do you think about these yearly rivals?
Ala: Aub, Tenn, LSU
Ark: aTm, OU, Mizz
Aub: Ala, UGa, FSU
UF: FSU, UGa, Tenn
FSU: UF, Aub, USC
UGa: Aub, FL, USC
UK: V, Tenn, MSU
LSU: Ala, aTm, Ole
MSU: Ole, V, UK
Mizz: Ark, OU, USC
Ole: MSU, V, LSU
OU: Ark, Mizz, aTm
Tenn: Ala, UF, UK
aTm: Ark, LSU, OU
V: UK, Ole, MSU

In this attempt, I kept the very important rivalries intact. Some of the lesser rivalries were altered to accomodate the new members and try and grow new ones. Now, if too many are unhappy that they can't get to play certain teams every year, having 4 or 5 yearly rivals still results in cycling through everyone every three years with 9 conference games.

(03-13-2016 09:13 PM)murrdcu Wrote:  If the SEC did expand to 16 with OU and FSU, I thought a nine game conference schedule with 3 yearly rivals could work. Every team would play one another every other year.

What do you think about these yearly rivals?
Ala: Aub, Tenn, LSU
Ark: aTm, OU, Mizz
Aub: Ala, UGa, FSU
UF: FSU, UGa, Tenn
FSU: UF, Aub, USC
UGa: Aub, FL, USC
UK: V, Tenn, MSU
LSU: Ala, aTm, Ole
MSU: Ole, V, UK
Mizz: Ark, OU, USC
Ole: MSU, V, LSU
OU: Ark, Mizz, aTm
Tenn: Ala, UF, UK
aTm: Ark, LSU, OU
V: UK, Ole, MSU

In this attempt, I kept the very important rivalries intact. Some of the lesser rivalries were altered to accomodate the new members and try and grow new ones. Now, if too many are unhappy that they can't get to play certain teams every year, having 4 or 5 yearly rivals still results in cycling through everyone every three years with 9 conference games.

It wouldn't be as necessary if they are in the same divisions. Proper division assignments and 1 permanent rivalry would be enough I think:

Arkansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, Texas A&M
Florida State, Louisiana State, Ole Miss, Mississippi State
Alabama, Auburn, Tennessee, Vanderbilt
Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, South Carolina

A&M plays LSU
Auburn plays Georgia
Florida plays Florida State
Kentucky plays Tennessee
Ole Miss plays Oklahoma
Alabama plays Mississippi State
Missouri plays South Carolina
Vanderbilt plays Arkansas

This doesn't have to be exactly set in stone but you get the idea.

Of course if we had to take a tag a long to bet Oklahoma, I would suggest moving to 18 dividing into three 6 team divisions and adding Texas and West Virginia.

Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, South Carolina, Tennessee, West Virginia

Alabama, Auburn, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Vanderbilt

Arkansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, Texas A&M

Perhaps this would work after the GOR expires.

Well MHVer3 has come almost full circle in 5 years. Tonight were back to W.V.U. to the SEC with OU if Texas refuses to convert the LHN. Take it for what it's worth but on a slow night it is funny. I got the news from Shaggy.

(03-18-2016 11:07 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Well MHVer3 has come almost full circle in 5 years. Tonight were back to W.V.U. to the SEC with OU if Texas refuses to convert the LHN. Take it for what it's worth but on a slow night it is funny. I got the news from Shaggy.

He's actually been consistent with the "OU will leave B12 if UT don't convert LHN to B12 and WVU will follow to SEC".

What I find interesting is all the WVU "insiders" don't think OU has a shot at joining the B1G while all the B1G "insiders" think OU will/would pass the votes. I don't see the current crop of B1G Presidents looking past that AAU requirement.

MH has had to go private on his twitter account since the dude was harrassing both him and fluge all week about being liars and wanting them to be on some podcast to question them.

(03-19-2016 02:54 AM)murrdcu Wrote:  

(03-18-2016 11:07 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Well MHVer3 has come almost full circle in 5 years. Tonight were back to W.V.U. to the SEC with OU if Texas refuses to convert the LHN. Take it for what it's worth but on a slow night it is funny. I got the news from Shaggy.

He's actually been consistent with the "OU will leave B12 if UT don't convert LHN to B12 and WVU will follow to SEC".

What I find interesting is all the WVU "insiders" don't think OU has a shot at joining the B1G while all the B1G "insiders" think OU will/would pass the votes. I don't see the current crop of B1G Presidents looking past that AAU requirement.

MH has had to go private on his twitter account since the dude was harrassing both him and fluge all week about being liars and wanting them to be on some podcast to question them.

The SEC is WVU nirvana. OU could go most anywhere. If the Big 10 took them it would be because their football content is in need of a boost. If OU chooses the SEC it will be because they want content for all sports and their basketball program would be a king in the SEC, not Kentucky level but high enough. And there is quite the contingent at Oklahoma that loves softball and baseball and the SEC is the place to be for both of those.

Of course the whole course of events could flip if the PAC goes in with ESPN or FOX.

The problem I have with WVU is that it does nothing to balance the divisions by moving Missouri West. It makes Kentucky less likely to move West, and would still require that you split Vanderbilt / Tennessee or Auburn / Alabama to accomplish a Missouri move.

Not that I particularly favor any of these but I could see OU / OSU if Oklahoma is acting alone. I could see OU / TCU if the SEC is trying to sew up Dallas. I could see OU / Baylor if Texas has gotten the PAC to agree to take T.C.U. and Tech. But the move I quietly wish for is OU / FSU. The SEC needs the majority of Florida and Oklahoma by itself gives us not only the state of Oklahoma but DFW. Plus they both are straight out SEC caliber. IMO if you anchor down the Southern most parts of the conference with those two additions then you can afford to wait on anything else you want. Besides landing FSU just might shake loose a Virginia Tech if that is what we truly want. But personally, I'd be happier with Clemson and another Texas school.

After Gundy's remarks today we should take both Oklahoma & Oklahoma State and wait to see if we can land Texas when they get through with their hissy fit. If Texas wants another Texas school fine. If not take WVU and end it.

I'd not get too excited about Gundy's comments. Their AD was one of the first, if not the first, to complain about T3 and wanting a B12 network awhile back. It's not anything new coming out of OSU.

(03-10-2016 07:17 AM)AllTideUp Wrote:  

(03-10-2016 05:34 AM)jhawkmvp Wrote:  

(03-09-2016 07:22 PM)JRsec Wrote:  The only ways to resolve the Big 12 are as follows:

1. Wait until the GOR expires and cherry pick.

2. ESPN grows a pair and the SEC adds Oklahoma, Kansas, Iowa State and OSU and the ACC adds Texas, Baylor, Kansas State, and a 4th of their choosing. Or ESPN finally gets the SEC to take two and Virginia Tech and N.C. State while the ACC adds 6 for a western division.

3. FOX grows a pair and forces the Big 10 and PAC to divide them up. I just don't see FOX and ESPN amicably resolving this. One or the other is going to have to place 8 to get it done.

Pretty much. It will take 2 conferences, at least, to kill the B12 without drawn out courtroom drama. Scenario one is most likely to happen since it is hard to bet against the status quo backed by GoRs when dealing with university presidents, but 2 is much more likely than 3 due to the SEC and ACC being much more open to the types of schools they are willing to add and their strong partnerships with ESPN. Plus, it could convert an underachieving existing network (LHN) into a more profitable ACCN. The B1G and Stanford/Cal/UCLA might blackball enough schools from consideration, for academic standing or perceived academic freedom issues, that 8 might not be possible. Also, I think FOX is not interwoven with those conferences quite like ESPN has been with the ACC and SEC. Could be mistaken though.

jhawk,

What are your thoughts on what Kansas would prefer in all this? I've heard theories, but not really anyone from that camp on what KU is thinking.

The KU AD is pretty tight lipped. I don't see much attributed to people connected to KU regarding realignment; however, if the B12 falters KU would prefer the B1G, almost certainly, as KU has had talks on and off with the B1G for decades and it is the closest fit for us. That said, I'd not be super surprised to see KU end up in any power conference. There were previous rumors about KU to the ACC (as JRSec has stated) with Texas and friends plus UNC and KU have quite a few ties, Larry Scott was on a plane to Lawrence when the PAC 16 got scuttled by Texas, KU/OU to the B1G has been around for awhile now, and the Texas/KU to SEC rumor was in my opinion a trial balloon to see how those two fan bases and SEC fan bases would react. KU (and Texas) has some anti-SEC fans, but many were open to that move. The SEC would bring back the MU rivalry and a new BB rivalry with UK. Since we would likely be going with at least one of OU or Texas that would be nice as well. KU would also shore up the SEC's biggest weakness (BB) if they can't pry UNC/Duke from the ACC.

Personally, I prefer the B1G or SEC because the passion for college sports in those conferences is similar to the passion in B12 country (our problem is population and too many duplicated markets). It also doesn't hurt that those two are the strongest conferences financially and KU would have schools within driving distance for fans.

JR, you just might get your OU/FSU wish this summer after all, lol.

MHver3 ‏@MHver3 20h20 hours ago
Hearing this morning that FSU has told ACC they will challenge GOR validity in court this fall regardless of what conf they call home

Currently there are 8 ACC schools that will not sign a new GOR for extra ESPN $

FSU says they do not want to leave ACC but have to keep options open since ACC is going to fall further behind SEC and others

(03-24-2016 02:52 AM)murrdcu Wrote:  JR, you just might get your OU/FSU wish this summer after all, lol.

MHver3 ‏@MHver3 20h20 hours ago
Hearing this morning that FSU has told ACC they will challenge GOR validity in court this fall regardless of what conf they call home

Currently there are 8 ACC schools that will not sign a new GOR for extra ESPN $

FSU says they do not want to leave ACC but have to keep options open since ACC is going to fall further behind SEC and others

Of course the source leaves major doubts, but if the SEC wanted to solidify everything they currently have, finish with to of the best brands out there presently not in the Big 10, PAC, or SEC this is the way to do it. The two largest states in the SEC footprint are Florida and Texas. In Florida we capture 45% of the market in actual allegiance. That's more than anyone can with one school, but should the payout model change that makes us vulnerable, as we would be in Texas.

In Texas A&M delivers viewers all over the state and clearly captures Houston. Should the SEC clearly dominate DFW as well it essentially gives us enough control not to lose footing with a new model. Oklahoma gives us that plus a new state. The two brands multiply our content value to heights that no other conference could then equal.

If you look at the remaining football product there are only 3 national brands left on the table between the ACC & SEC that aren't named Notre Dame.

Texas, Oklahoma, and Florida State would be the top 3. I strongly suspect that should OU & FSU move to the SEC that the content game would be over as to who is tops, or could be tops.

The Big 10 would only have two moves they could make that would keep them close: Notre Dame & Texas. I don't see Texas making this move. Notre Dame might if they had no other options.

Without Florida State the ACC might take West Virginia and Connecticut to move to 16, or might take W.V.U. and if Notre Dame went all in with the conference minus Florida State but with Miami they would have essentially everything they want in a conference in the ACC.

They would be the undisputed football king and they would have, other than Clemson, an easy path to the CFP.

If that were to happen I think the Big 10 has to take Kansas and Iowa State to strengthen their AAU hold. That means that Texas, Oklahoma State, Kansas State and Texas Tech are free to head to the PAC.

The more I've thought about it the more I believe that Miami as Notre Dame's touchstone in Florida gives them the recruiting exposure without posing a major issue to their prominence. Clemson as Xlance has said before might like being N.D.'s sole competition in a Nole-less ACC.

But I wouldn't rule out the SEC & Big 10 both moving to 18 either. We might have to take Oklahoma State too. If so the 4th is a big question mark to me unless it's Texas (which I don't see), or Clemson which I also would like, but which whose absence coupled with the loss of F.S.U. would prove catastrophic for the ACC's valuation, Notre Dame or not.

(03-24-2016 07:56 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-24-2016 02:52 AM)murrdcu Wrote:  JR, you just might get your OU/FSU wish this summer after all, lol.

MHver3 ‏@MHver3 20h20 hours ago
Hearing this morning that FSU has told ACC they will challenge GOR validity in court this fall regardless of what conf they call home

Currently there are 8 ACC schools that will not sign a new GOR for extra ESPN $

FSU says they do not want to leave ACC but have to keep options open since ACC is going to fall further behind SEC and others

Of course the source leaves major doubts, but if the SEC wanted to solidify everything they currently have, finish with to of the best brands out there presently not in the Big 10, PAC, or SEC this is the way to do it. The two largest states in the SEC footprint are Florida and Texas. In Florida we capture 45% of the market in actual allegiance. That's more than anyone can with one school, but should the payout model change that makes us vulnerable, as we would be in Texas.

In Texas A&M delivers viewers all over the state and clearly captures Houston. Should the SEC clearly dominate DFW as well it essentially gives us enough control not to lose footing with a new model. Oklahoma gives us that plus a new state. The two brands multiply our content value to heights that no other conference could then equal.

If you look at the remaining football product there are only 3 national brands left on the table between the ACC & SEC that aren't named Notre Dame.

Texas, Oklahoma, and Florida State would be the top 3. I strongly suspect that should OU & FSU move to the SEC that the content game would be over as to who is tops, or could be tops.

The Big 10 would only have two moves they could make that would keep them close: Notre Dame & Texas. I don't see Texas making this move. Notre Dame might if they had no other options.

Without Florida State the ACC might take West Virginia and Connecticut to move to 16, or might take W.V.U. and if Notre Dame went all in with the conference minus Florida State but with Miami they would have essentially everything they want in a conference in the ACC.

They would be the undisputed football king and they would have, other than Clemson, an easy path to the CFP.

If that were to happen I think the Big 10 has to take Kansas and Iowa State to strengthen their AAU hold. That means that Texas, Oklahoma State, Kansas State and Texas Tech are free to head to the PAC.

The more I've thought about it the more I believe that Miami as Notre Dame's touchstone in Florida gives them the recruiting exposure without posing a major issue to their prominence. Clemson as Xlance has said before might like being N.D.'s sole competition in a Nole-less ACC.

But I wouldn't rule out the SEC & Big 10 both moving to 18 either. We might have to take Oklahoma State too. If so the 4th is a big question mark to me unless it's Texas (which I don't see), or Clemson which I also would like, but which whose absence coupled with the loss of F.S.U. would prove catastrophic for the ACC's valuation, Notre Dame or not.

IF Oklahoma & FSU go to the SEC, what would the chances be for the ACC to get ND all in & also bring Texas in? Would Oklahoma State &/or Kansas come with Texas?

IF it's a move against the Big 12 & Fox then say the SEC would get FSU, Oklahoma, VT & WV. The ACC could get ND all in, Texas, Oklahoma State, Kansas & maybe 2 more (TT & Baylor?) for 18. This would extremely limit the B1G options.

Or would it be more probable that Texas, Oklahoma State, Kansas & Iowa St (for example) would be sent to the PAC if they gave up a piece of their network? The ACC would get ND all in to replace FSU, would they take 2 more to match the SEC 16 (WV + 1 of UConn, Cincinnati, UCF/USF or B12 remnant)?

I can't see FSU moving alone unless it's to the SEC but I don't see them taking on the GOR. The ACC might work a deal to let them out however, say for ND & Texas.

It's all speculation based on unreliable rumors but it's interesting to bounce around though.

Edit: As far as 8 schools that won't resign the GOR for extra ESPN money, I don't buy that. That sounds misleading. I can see FSU & perhaps Clemson & GT being against a GOR extension but not 8. Now if it were a terrible deal being offered like $5 extra million per school to extend it to 2030 then yeah, I can see a lot of schools being against that but not against resigning the GOR in general.

If Oklahoma and Florida State are on the table at the same time then I'm still betting we'll have to take Oklahoma State.

At that point, we might as well take West Virginia to get a slice of the Mid-Atlantic. The ACC can survive. The Big 12's days would be numbered and how exactly it disintegrates, I'm not sure.

- Texas A&M, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Missouri, Arkansas, LSU

- Ole Miss, Mississippi State, Alabama, Auburn, Tennessee, Vanderbilt

- Florida, Florida State, Georgia, South Carolina, Kentucky, West Virginia

Maybe then the B1G takes Kansas and UConn

(03-24-2016 09:39 AM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  

(03-24-2016 07:56 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-24-2016 02:52 AM)murrdcu Wrote:  JR, you just might get your OU/FSU wish this summer after all, lol.

MHver3 ‏@MHver3 20h20 hours ago
Hearing this morning that FSU has told ACC they will challenge GOR validity in court this fall regardless of what conf they call home

Currently there are 8 ACC schools that will not sign a new GOR for extra ESPN $

FSU says they do not want to leave ACC but have to keep options open since ACC is going to fall further behind SEC and others

Of course the source leaves major doubts, but if the SEC wanted to solidify everything they currently have, finish with to of the best brands out there presently not in the Big 10, PAC, or SEC this is the way to do it. The two largest states in the SEC footprint are Florida and Texas. In Florida we capture 45% of the market in actual allegiance. That's more than anyone can with one school, but should the payout model change that makes us vulnerable, as we would be in Texas.

In Texas A&M delivers viewers all over the state and clearly captures Houston. Should the SEC clearly dominate DFW as well it essentially gives us enough control not to lose footing with a new model. Oklahoma gives us that plus a new state. The two brands multiply our content value to heights that no other conference could then equal.

If you look at the remaining football product there are only 3 national brands left on the table between the ACC & SEC that aren't named Notre Dame.

Texas, Oklahoma, and Florida State would be the top 3. I strongly suspect that should OU & FSU move to the SEC that the content game would be over as to who is tops, or could be tops.

The Big 10 would only have two moves they could make that would keep them close: Notre Dame & Texas. I don't see Texas making this move. Notre Dame might if they had no other options.

Without Florida State the ACC might take West Virginia and Connecticut to move to 16, or might take W.V.U. and if Notre Dame went all in with the conference minus Florida State but with Miami they would have essentially everything they want in a conference in the ACC.

They would be the undisputed football king and they would have, other than Clemson, an easy path to the CFP.

If that were to happen I think the Big 10 has to take Kansas and Iowa State to strengthen their AAU hold. That means that Texas, Oklahoma State, Kansas State and Texas Tech are free to head to the PAC.

The more I've thought about it the more I believe that Miami as Notre Dame's touchstone in Florida gives them the recruiting exposure without posing a major issue to their prominence. Clemson as Xlance has said before might like being N.D.'s sole competition in a Nole-less ACC.

But I wouldn't rule out the SEC & Big 10 both moving to 18 either. We might have to take Oklahoma State too. If so the 4th is a big question mark to me unless it's Texas (which I don't see), or Clemson which I also would like, but which whose absence coupled with the loss of F.S.U. would prove catastrophic for the ACC's valuation, Notre Dame or not.

IF Oklahoma & FSU go to the SEC, what would the chances be for the ACC to get ND all in & also bring Texas in? Would Oklahoma State &/or Kansas come with Texas?

IF it's a move against the Big 12 & Fox then say the SEC would get FSU, Oklahoma, VT & WV. The ACC could get ND all in, Texas, Oklahoma State, Kansas & maybe 2 more (TT & Baylor?) for 18. This would extremely limit the B1G options.

Or would it be more probable that Texas, Oklahoma State, Kansas & Iowa St (for example) would be sent to the PAC if they gave up a piece of their network? The ACC would get ND all in to replace FSU, would they take 2 more to match the SEC 16 (WV + 1 of UConn, Cincinnati, UCF/USF or B12 remnant)?

I can't see FSU moving alone unless it's to the SEC but I don't see them taking on the GOR. The ACC might work a deal to let them out however, say for ND & Texas.

It's all speculation based on unreliable rumors but it's interesting to bounce around though.

Edit: As far as 8 schools that won't resign the GOR for extra ESPN money, I don't buy that. That sounds misleading. I can see FSU & perhaps Clemson & GT being against a GOR extension but not 8. Now if it were a terrible deal being offered like $5 extra million per school to extend it to 2030 then yeah, I can see a lot of schools being against that but not against resigning the GOR in general.

If F.S.U. left for the SEC the ACC now has 4 slots open to get to 18 if N.D. goes all in. Who's to say it's not Texas, Baylor, T.C.U. & Texas Tech? That would get Texas into the ACC IMO.

The SEC could take F.S.U., OU, OSU & WV. If Kansas goes Big 10 (especially with ISU) then that's 9 and its done.

BTW it only takes 1 vote against to get out of a GOR. So if a new vote is needed 1 school can depart if they vote against. The others would be bound. But, I don't think there would be a new vote required. We'll see.

(03-24-2016 12:08 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  If Oklahoma and Florida State are on the table at the same time then I'm still betting we'll have to take Oklahoma State.

At that point, we might as well take West Virginia to get a slice of the Mid-Atlantic. The ACC can survive. The Big 12's days would be numbered and how exactly it disintegrates, I'm not sure.

- Texas A&M, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Missouri, Arkansas, LSU

- Ole Miss, Mississippi State, Alabama, Auburn, Tennessee, Vanderbilt

- Florida, Florida State, Georgia, South Carolina, Kentucky, West Virginia

Maybe then the B1G takes Kansas and UConn

That's a fairly nice set up isn't it?

(03-24-2016 03:53 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-24-2016 12:08 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  If Oklahoma and Florida State are on the table at the same time then I'm still betting we'll have to take Oklahoma State.

At that point, we might as well take West Virginia to get a slice of the Mid-Atlantic. The ACC can survive. The Big 12's days would be numbered and how exactly it disintegrates, I'm not sure.

- Texas A&M, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Missouri, Arkansas, LSU

- Ole Miss, Mississippi State, Alabama, Auburn, Tennessee, Vanderbilt

- Florida, Florida State, Georgia, South Carolina, Kentucky, West Virginia

Maybe then the B1G takes Kansas and UConn

That's a fairly nice set up isn't it?

I know it is old and the metrics have shifted, but I just reviewed MrSECs "Expounding on Expansion" and it kind of validated for me that WVU doesn't bring enough to the table for the SEC.

His metrics also did not consider the North Carolina Schools, so in a new round of expansion, they might not be as helpful, but he found that OK and Virginia were the top remaining non-Texas/ND options for the SEC.

Florida State came right next, followed by Maryland (to Big 10 since the report) and Virginia Tech.

At this point I don't know how either the Big 10 or the SEC views UNC/Duke/NC State, especially with UNCs academic issues recently.

If both Big 10 and SEC went to 18, I could easily see:

SEC: Oklahoma, FSU, one of Virginia/VTech and one of UNC/Duke
Big 10: Kansas, one of Virginia/VTech, one of UNC/Duke, + 1?

My guess would be that Duke would want to go with Virginia, which might mean that SEC goes VTech/UNC, but I don't know.

The +1 for Big 10 is very limited. I know it doesn't have to be AAU, but that might be where they start: Georgia Tech, Iowa State, Pitt. In this case I'd go with GT.

On the other hand, some "out there" picks: Toronto, NYU, Buffalo, Tulane, Rice from the non-P5 set, and something like Vandy/Mizzou from the P5 could be dark horses (not realistic I know!)

That would leave ACC with 8 schools (gone are FSU, VTech, Virginia, UNC, Duke, and GT) and the remainder could then combine with Big 12 for a third 16 team conference (8 leftovers in Big 12), or take a leftover group + UConn/Cincy, etc if Texas and friends leave for the PAC 16.

(03-24-2016 05:44 PM)Soobahk40050 Wrote:  

(03-24-2016 03:53 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-24-2016 12:08 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  If Oklahoma and Florida State are on the table at the same time then I'm still betting we'll have to take Oklahoma State.

At that point, we might as well take West Virginia to get a slice of the Mid-Atlantic. The ACC can survive. The Big 12's days would be numbered and how exactly it disintegrates, I'm not sure.

- Texas A&M, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Missouri, Arkansas, LSU

- Ole Miss, Mississippi State, Alabama, Auburn, Tennessee, Vanderbilt

- Florida, Florida State, Georgia, South Carolina, Kentucky, West Virginia

Maybe then the B1G takes Kansas and UConn

That's a fairly nice set up isn't it?

I know it is old and the metrics have shifted, but I just reviewed MrSECs "Expounding on Expansion" and it kind of validated for me that WVU doesn't bring enough to the table for the SEC.

His metrics also did not consider the North Carolina Schools, so in a new round of expansion, they might not be as helpful, but he found that OK and Virginia were the top remaining non-Texas/ND options for the SEC.

Florida State came right next, followed by Maryland (to Big 10 since the report) and Virginia Tech.

At this point I don't know how either the Big 10 or the SEC views UNC/Duke/NC State, especially with UNCs academic issues recently.

If both Big 10 and SEC went to 18, I could easily see:

SEC: Oklahoma, FSU, one of Virginia/VTech and one of UNC/Duke
Big 10: Kansas, one of Virginia/VTech, one of UNC/Duke, + 1?

My guess would be that Duke would want to go with Virginia, which might mean that SEC goes VTech/UNC, but I don't know.

The +1 for Big 10 is very limited. I know it doesn't have to be AAU, but that might be where they start: Georgia Tech, Iowa State, Pitt. In this case I'd go with GT.

On the other hand, some "out there" picks: Toronto, NYU, Buffalo, Tulane, Rice from the non-P5 set, and something like Vandy/Mizzou from the P5 could be dark horses (not realistic I know!)

That would leave ACC with 8 schools (gone are FSU, VTech, Virginia, UNC, Duke, and GT) and the remainder could then combine with Big 12 for a third 18 team conference, or take a leftover group + UConn/Cincy, etc if Texas and friends leave for the PAC 16.

I know the Irish fans say never, but if Virginia and Duke headed to the Big 10 with Kansas and we were moving to a P4 where the champions were the CFP representatives, I expect Notre Dame to have to join fully somewhere. With Virginia and Duke in the fold I think their resistance gives into Big 10 membership, but only under those circumstances.

With no ACC and the PAC a continent away, I think they take the Big 10 over the SEC don't you?