(02-23-2016 05:42 PM)Knightsweat Wrote:  

(02-23-2016 04:55 PM)mavblues Wrote:  

(02-23-2016 03:47 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(02-22-2016 06:02 PM)Knightsweat Wrote:  

(02-22-2016 05:22 PM)HuskyU Wrote:  "Claim" and "Reach" are 2 different things.



As it applies to UCONN, yes, I do think UCONN has a "reach" beyond their state border. And yes, I do think UCONN (as Connecticut's single flagship university) can "claim" its entire home-state.

As far as UCF is concerned, the Knights can "claim" Orlando and may have a "reach" in the surrounding area, but I don't think they can "claim" the entire state of Florida just because they are located within the state.

I should have been more specific. I was agreeing with your point that some schools can claim markets outside their state border, and that the opposite can be true within their own border. I just disagree that UConn is one of those schools that project outside their own border. But claiming the NYC market falsely projects UConn's market strength to the Big12 expansion committee. And no, UCF doesnt carry the whole state. That would be a ridiculous statement, but their strength in the Orlando market is very real. Same for USF in Tampa. Anyway your original statement seemed to imply (to me at least) that UConn was an example of a school that projects outside their border. I don't think they do. Once again, not meant as a flame.

I heard that the expansion committee commissioned a poll of all UConn fans in NYC. They found that 75% of those fans said they would definitely watch a UConn-Texas Tech football game. The fourth guy said he would probably be washing his hair that night.

And yet UConn's TV contract is with SNY. And UConn is the #1 college draw on the network.

And after years of trying to get picked up in CT, (without success) SNY was picked up statewide within 30 days of signing UConn, at a rate of $2.40 per sub.

Go figure.

It amazes me how ignorant people can be when they're online. I guess if you say something forcefully enough, it must be true...

UConn is the flagship university of a very wealthy state. It owns its state - there is no #2. CT is part of New England, but it is also part of the Tri-State area (NY, NJ, CT) and most large advertisers have ad campaigns targeted for the Tri-State area.

As far as media markets, Fairfield County CT (home to a large number of UConn alumnae) is considered part of the NYC DMA. Springfield MA is also home to a number of UConn alums. So, to say that UConn's reach does not extend out of its State, or its home DMA, is false.

But don't let any facts get in your way.

Facts because you say so? Sorry that dog dont hunt...but try saying it more forcefully, it might make it true. Seriously, post a link to support your claim, otherwise it didnt happen.

What are you disputing I'll be happy to provide links. Links that show UConn IMG deal is the largest of any g5 and more than many in the P5? Links that show UConn has a football fan base which 100k higher than the next largest in the G5 based on the only study of its kind? Links that show uconn has more football fans in nyc than any ACC teams based on that same study? Links that show you a map? Links to the Nielson DMA rankings? Links to the SNY deals? Links that show UConn has the largest budget in the G5? Links that show UConn earns the most revenue in the G5? Links that show UConn has had 23 players drafted in the NFL in the last decade? Links that show UConn is the 57th ranked university in the country? Links to the box score from UConn v ucf the last two years?

Which link do you want??

(02-23-2016 07:55 PM)Hank Schrader Wrote:  

(02-23-2016 05:42 PM)Knightsweat Wrote:  

(02-23-2016 04:55 PM)mavblues Wrote:  

(02-23-2016 03:47 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(02-22-2016 06:02 PM)Knightsweat Wrote:  I should have been more specific. I was agreeing with your point that some schools can claim markets outside their state border, and that the opposite can be true within their own border. I just disagree that UConn is one of those schools that project outside their own border. But claiming the NYC market falsely projects UConn's market strength to the Big12 expansion committee. And no, UCF doesnt carry the whole state. That would be a ridiculous statement, but their strength in the Orlando market is very real. Same for USF in Tampa. Anyway your original statement seemed to imply (to me at least) that UConn was an example of a school that projects outside their border. I don't think they do. Once again, not meant as a flame.

I heard that the expansion committee commissioned a poll of all UConn fans in NYC. They found that 75% of those fans said they would definitely watch a UConn-Texas Tech football game. The fourth guy said he would probably be washing his hair that night.

And yet UConn's TV contract is with SNY. And UConn is the #1 college draw on the network.

And after years of trying to get picked up in CT, (without success) SNY was picked up statewide within 30 days of signing UConn, at a rate of $2.40 per sub.

Go figure.

It amazes me how ignorant people can be when they're online. I guess if you say something forcefully enough, it must be true...

UConn is the flagship university of a very wealthy state. It owns its state - there is no #2. CT is part of New England, but it is also part of the Tri-State area (NY, NJ, CT) and most large advertisers have ad campaigns targeted for the Tri-State area.

As far as media markets, Fairfield County CT (home to a large number of UConn alumnae) is considered part of the NYC DMA. Springfield MA is also home to a number of UConn alums. So, to say that UConn's reach does not extend out of its State, or its home DMA, is false.

But don't let any facts get in your way.

Facts because you say so? Sorry that dog dont hunt...but try saying it more forcefully, it might make it true. Seriously, post a link to support your claim, otherwise it didnt happen.

What are you disputing I'll be happy to provide links. Links that show UConn IMG deal is the largest of any g5 and more than many in the P5? Links that show UConn has a football fan base which 100k higher than the next largest in the G5 based on the only study of its kind? Links that show uconn has more football fans in nyc than any ACC teams based on that same study? Links that show you a map? Links to the Nielson DMA rankings? Links to the SNY deals? Links that show UConn has the largest budget in the G5? Links that show UConn earns the most revenue in the G5? Links that show UConn has had 23 players drafted in the NFL in the last decade? Links that show UConn is the 57th ranked university in the country? Links to the box score from UConn v ucf the last two years?

Which link do you want??

Doubtful you'll get a response. It's so much easier to be a troll than to do any research, or admit when you're wrong.

"Give me a link" is the typical troll response when confronted with facts that are easily available. They want you to waste your time posting stuff they already know. Step two is to change the argument when confronted with facts.

Seriously, how difficult is it to find the various DMA maps? Or the SNY carriage rate? etc. etc. All this stuff's been posted here before.

Where are the links for the troll's claims? A: there are none, because it's just one person's ignorance.

It is not a problem to the Big 12 either. The other P5 conferences also have schools in very low population areas as well. Oregon, Oregon State and Washington State in the PAC 12.
SEC has Ole Miss., Kentucky, Mississippi State, and Auburn.
Big 10 have schools that are losing population lately like the state of Michigan and Wisconsin.
ACC has Clemson.

(02-23-2016 08:42 PM)mavblues Wrote:  

(02-23-2016 07:55 PM)Hank Schrader Wrote:  

(02-23-2016 05:42 PM)Knightsweat Wrote:  

(02-23-2016 04:55 PM)mavblues Wrote:  

(02-23-2016 03:47 PM)ken d Wrote:  I heard that the expansion committee commissioned a poll of all UConn fans in NYC. They found that 75% of those fans said they would definitely watch a UConn-Texas Tech football game. The fourth guy said he would probably be washing his hair that night.

And yet UConn's TV contract is with SNY. And UConn is the #1 college draw on the network.

And after years of trying to get picked up in CT, (without success) SNY was picked up statewide within 30 days of signing UConn, at a rate of $2.40 per sub.

Go figure.

It amazes me how ignorant people can be when they're online. I guess if you say something forcefully enough, it must be true...

UConn is the flagship university of a very wealthy state. It owns its state - there is no #2. CT is part of New England, but it is also part of the Tri-State area (NY, NJ, CT) and most large advertisers have ad campaigns targeted for the Tri-State area.

As far as media markets, Fairfield County CT (home to a large number of UConn alumnae) is considered part of the NYC DMA. Springfield MA is also home to a number of UConn alums. So, to say that UConn's reach does not extend out of its State, or its home DMA, is false.

But don't let any facts get in your way.

Facts because you say so? Sorry that dog dont hunt...but try saying it more forcefully, it might make it true. Seriously, post a link to support your claim, otherwise it didnt happen.

What are you disputing I'll be happy to provide links. Links that show UConn IMG deal is the largest of any g5 and more than many in the P5? Links that show UConn has a football fan base which 100k higher than the next largest in the G5 based on the only study of its kind? Links that show uconn has more football fans in nyc than any ACC teams based on that same study? Links that show you a map? Links to the Nielson DMA rankings? Links to the SNY deals? Links that show UConn has the largest budget in the G5? Links that show UConn earns the most revenue in the G5? Links that show UConn has had 23 players drafted in the NFL in the last decade? Links that show UConn is the 57th ranked university in the country? Links to the box score from UConn v ucf the last two years?

Which link do you want??

Doubtful you'll get a response. It's so much easier to be a troll than to do any research, or admit when you're wrong.

"Give me a link" is the typical troll response when confronted with facts that are easily available. They want you to waste your time posting stuff they already know. Step two is to change the argument when confronted with facts.

Seriously, how difficult is it to find the various DMA maps? Or the SNY carriage rate? etc. etc. All this stuff's been posted here before.

Where are the links for the troll's claims? A: there are none, because it's just one person's ignorance.

You keep chipping your teeth, but I don't see links. Answer the doubts, instead of resorting to insults.... Or are you too ignorant? I don't have to prove anything as I'm not making claims to a market that most would agree is Rutgers', and that penetration is only roughly 20% of an overall 14% of the entire NYC market size since NYC is a huge pro-oriented market. UConn pulls 5% of that same 14% NYC market. That does not equal NYC being UConn's market. Sorry fellas.

http://articles.courant.com/2012-11-20/s...acc-market

So given NYC's TV market size as per:
http://sportstvjobs.com/resources/local-...s-dma.html

That's roughly 7.4 million, minus the 86% that does not watch college sports, which leaves just over a million viewers that watch collegiate sports, of which UConn pulls 5% of that 1 million viewers, or just over 51,000 viewers. Once again, that's not NYC market penetration, at least not imo. I'm sure you will disagree, or question the numbers, but those stats are from the Hartford Courant.........So I doubt they are anti-UConn, since they "own" their home state, amirite? Yeah, I'm right.

(02-22-2016 04:29 PM)Gray Avenger Wrote:  The Big 12 not only has the worst footprint gap among the "Autonomy 5" conferences, it has the fewest number of states and the lowest population, by far. The Big 12's 5 states have a total population of only 37.8 million compared to:

SEC - 11 states w/ 95.6 million

Big 10 - 11 states w/ 85.1 million

ACC - 10 states w/ 104.2 million

PAC 12 - 6 states w/ 65.7 million

The Big 12 needs to expand.

Do you have a link that says low population and footprint gap is a concern for Big 12 reps and members?

(02-23-2016 11:09 PM)BamaScorpio69 Wrote:  

(02-22-2016 04:29 PM)Gray Avenger Wrote:  The Big 12 not only has the worst footprint gap among the "Autonomy 5" conferences, it has the fewest number of states and the lowest population, by far. The Big 12's 5 states have a total population of only 37.8 million compared to:

SEC - 11 states w/ 95.6 million

Big 10 - 11 states w/ 85.1 million

ACC - 10 states w/ 104.2 million

PAC 12 - 6 states w/ 65.7 million

The Big 12 needs to expand.

Do you have a link that says low population and footprint gap is a concern for Big 12 reps and members?

I believe he's implying it will matter to networks, and as such should concern the Big12. Of course, imo.

(02-23-2016 10:17 PM)Knightsweat Wrote:  

(02-23-2016 08:42 PM)mavblues Wrote:  

(02-23-2016 07:55 PM)Hank Schrader Wrote:  

(02-23-2016 05:42 PM)Knightsweat Wrote:  

(02-23-2016 04:55 PM)mavblues Wrote:  And yet UConn's TV contract is with SNY. And UConn is the #1 college draw on the network.

And after years of trying to get picked up in CT, (without success) SNY was picked up statewide within 30 days of signing UConn, at a rate of $2.40 per sub.

Go figure.

It amazes me how ignorant people can be when they're online. I guess if you say something forcefully enough, it must be true...

UConn is the flagship university of a very wealthy state. It owns its state - there is no #2. CT is part of New England, but it is also part of the Tri-State area (NY, NJ, CT) and most large advertisers have ad campaigns targeted for the Tri-State area.

As far as media markets, Fairfield County CT (home to a large number of UConn alumnae) is considered part of the NYC DMA. Springfield MA is also home to a number of UConn alums. So, to say that UConn's reach does not extend out of its State, or its home DMA, is false.

But don't let any facts get in your way.

Facts because you say so? Sorry that dog dont hunt...but try saying it more forcefully, it might make it true. Seriously, post a link to support your claim, otherwise it didnt happen.

What are you disputing I'll be happy to provide links. Links that show UConn IMG deal is the largest of any g5 and more than many in the P5? Links that show UConn has a football fan base which 100k higher than the next largest in the G5 based on the only study of its kind? Links that show uconn has more football fans in nyc than any ACC teams based on that same study? Links that show you a map? Links to the Nielson DMA rankings? Links to the SNY deals? Links that show UConn has the largest budget in the G5? Links that show UConn earns the most revenue in the G5? Links that show UConn has had 23 players drafted in the NFL in the last decade? Links that show UConn is the 57th ranked university in the country? Links to the box score from UConn v ucf the last two years?

Which link do you want??

Doubtful you'll get a response. It's so much easier to be a troll than to do any research, or admit when you're wrong.

"Give me a link" is the typical troll response when confronted with facts that are easily available. They want you to waste your time posting stuff they already know. Step two is to change the argument when confronted with facts.

Seriously, how difficult is it to find the various DMA maps? Or the SNY carriage rate? etc. etc. All this stuff's been posted here before.

Where are the links for the troll's claims? A: there are none, because it's just one person's ignorance.

You keep chipping your teeth, but I don't see links. Answer the doubts, instead of resorting to insults.... Or are you too ignorant? I don't have to prove anything as I'm not making claims to a market that most would agree is Rutgers', and that penetration is only roughly 20% of an overall 14% of the entire NYC market size since NYC is a huge pro-oriented market. UConn pulls 5% of that same 14% NYC market. That does not equal NYC being UConn's market. Sorry fellas.

http://articles.courant.com/2012-11-20/s...acc-market

So given NYC's TV market size as per:
http://sportstvjobs.com/resources/local-...s-dma.html

That's roughly 7.4 million, minus the 86% that does not watch college sports, which leaves just over a million viewers that watch collegiate sports, of which UConn pulls 5% of that 1 million viewers, or just over 51,000 viewers. Once again, that's not NYC market penetration, at least not imo. I'm sure you will disagree, or question the numbers, but those stats are from the Hartford Courant.........So I doubt they are anti-UConn, since they "own" their home state, amirite? Yeah, I'm right.

Your math is wrong which isn't a shocker. There's 150,150 UConn football fans living in NYC based on silvers study's which the courant is citing.

http://thequad.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/09...haos/?_r=0

(02-24-2016 06:23 AM)Hank Schrader Wrote:  

(02-23-2016 10:17 PM)Knightsweat Wrote:  

(02-23-2016 08:42 PM)mavblues Wrote:  

(02-23-2016 07:55 PM)Hank Schrader Wrote:  

(02-23-2016 05:42 PM)Knightsweat Wrote:  Facts because you say so? Sorry that dog dont hunt...but try saying it more forcefully, it might make it true. Seriously, post a link to support your claim, otherwise it didnt happen.

What are you disputing I'll be happy to provide links. Links that show UConn IMG deal is the largest of any g5 and more than many in the P5? Links that show UConn has a football fan base which 100k higher than the next largest in the G5 based on the only study of its kind? Links that show uconn has more football fans in nyc than any ACC teams based on that same study? Links that show you a map? Links to the Nielson DMA rankings? Links to the SNY deals? Links that show UConn has the largest budget in the G5? Links that show UConn earns the most revenue in the G5? Links that show UConn has had 23 players drafted in the NFL in the last decade? Links that show UConn is the 57th ranked university in the country? Links to the box score from UConn v ucf the last two years?

Which link do you want??

Doubtful you'll get a response. It's so much easier to be a troll than to do any research, or admit when you're wrong.

"Give me a link" is the typical troll response when confronted with facts that are easily available. They want you to waste your time posting stuff they already know. Step two is to change the argument when confronted with facts.

Seriously, how difficult is it to find the various DMA maps? Or the SNY carriage rate? etc. etc. All this stuff's been posted here before.

Where are the links for the troll's claims? A: there are none, because it's just one person's ignorance.

You keep chipping your teeth, but I don't see links. Answer the doubts, instead of resorting to insults.... Or are you too ignorant? I don't have to prove anything as I'm not making claims to a market that most would agree is Rutgers', and that penetration is only roughly 20% of an overall 14% of the entire NYC market size since NYC is a huge pro-oriented market. UConn pulls 5% of that same 14% NYC market. That does not equal NYC being UConn's market. Sorry fellas.

http://articles.courant.com/2012-11-20/s...acc-market

So given NYC's TV market size as per:
http://sportstvjobs.com/resources/local-...s-dma.html

That's roughly 7.4 million, minus the 86% that does not watch college sports, which leaves just over a million viewers that watch collegiate sports, of which UConn pulls 5% of that 1 million viewers, or just over 51,000 viewers. Once again, that's not NYC market penetration, at least not imo. I'm sure you will disagree, or question the numbers, but those stats are from the Hartford Courant.........So I doubt they are anti-UConn, since they "own" their home state, amirite? Yeah, I'm right.

Your math is wrong which isn't a shocker. There's 150,150 UConn football fans living in NYC based on silvers study's which the courant is citing.

http://thequad.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/09...haos/?_r=0

That 150k Fans in NYC means nothing if they do not watch anyway. If you want to base it solely on Football, UConn does not "Own NYC" In any way, shape or form. Now I would like to see the Basketball Numbers, that would really tell the tale....

(02-24-2016 10:20 AM)lance99 Wrote:  

(02-24-2016 06:23 AM)Hank Schrader Wrote:  

(02-23-2016 10:17 PM)Knightsweat Wrote:  

(02-23-2016 08:42 PM)mavblues Wrote:  

(02-23-2016 07:55 PM)Hank Schrader Wrote:  What are you disputing I'll be happy to provide links. Links that show UConn IMG deal is the largest of any g5 and more than many in the P5? Links that show UConn has a football fan base which 100k higher than the next largest in the G5 based on the only study of its kind? Links that show uconn has more football fans in nyc than any ACC teams based on that same study? Links that show you a map? Links to the Nielson DMA rankings? Links to the SNY deals? Links that show UConn has the largest budget in the G5? Links that show UConn earns the most revenue in the G5? Links that show UConn has had 23 players drafted in the NFL in the last decade? Links that show UConn is the 57th ranked university in the country? Links to the box score from UConn v ucf the last two years?

Which link do you want??

Doubtful you'll get a response. It's so much easier to be a troll than to do any research, or admit when you're wrong.

"Give me a link" is the typical troll response when confronted with facts that are easily available. They want you to waste your time posting stuff they already know. Step two is to change the argument when confronted with facts.

Seriously, how difficult is it to find the various DMA maps? Or the SNY carriage rate? etc. etc. All this stuff's been posted here before.

Where are the links for the troll's claims? A: there are none, because it's just one person's ignorance.

You keep chipping your teeth, but I don't see links. Answer the doubts, instead of resorting to insults.... Or are you too ignorant? I don't have to prove anything as I'm not making claims to a market that most would agree is Rutgers', and that penetration is only roughly 20% of an overall 14% of the entire NYC market size since NYC is a huge pro-oriented market. UConn pulls 5% of that same 14% NYC market. That does not equal NYC being UConn's market. Sorry fellas.

http://articles.courant.com/2012-11-20/s...acc-market

So given NYC's TV market size as per:
http://sportstvjobs.com/resources/local-...s-dma.html

That's roughly 7.4 million, minus the 86% that does not watch college sports, which leaves just over a million viewers that watch collegiate sports, of which UConn pulls 5% of that 1 million viewers, or just over 51,000 viewers. Once again, that's not NYC market penetration, at least not imo. I'm sure you will disagree, or question the numbers, but those stats are from the Hartford Courant.........So I doubt they are anti-UConn, since they "own" their home state, amirite? Yeah, I'm right.

Your math is wrong which isn't a shocker. There's 150,150 UConn football fans living in NYC based on silvers study's which the courant is citing.

http://thequad.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/09...haos/?_r=0

That 150k Fans in NYC means nothing if they do not watch anyway. If you want to base it solely on Football, UConn does not "Own NYC" In any way, shape or form. Now I would like to see the Basketball Numbers, that would really tell the tele....

I never said UConn "owned NYC." In fact not one UConn fan in this thread claimed that.

Arbitrary geographic divisions are just that. They're arbitrary geographic divisions. They're meaningless.

There are three ways in which schools add media value:
1) Viewers (i.e. fans) will pay for access to their games
2) Viewers (i.e. fans) will watch their games (and buy the products being advertised)
3) The viewers who watch their games have a favorable co-variance with the other content in their media package

The first two relate to fans, and the last one is too detailed for any of us to know, and there's no reason to think that any one school is special, so it's probably best ignored. Unless you are moving one of those three levers (mainly the first two), value isn't being created. And, none of those three levers involve geography. It does not matter what big cities are nearby. It does not matter what DMA combines what fans. Ignoring the third factor, it only matters how many fans care and how much they care. Everything else is as relevant to the conversation as a random map of South America.

(02-24-2016 10:39 AM)nzmorange Wrote:  Arbitrary geographic divisions are just that. They're arbitrary geographic divisions. They're meaningless.

There are three ways in which schools add media value:
1) Viewers (i.e. fans) will pay for access to their games
2) Viewers (i.e. fans) will watch their games (and buy the products being advertised)
3) The viewers who watch their games have a favorable co-variance with the other content in their media package

The first two relate to fans, and the last one is too detailed for any of us to know, and there's no reason to think that any one school is special, so it's probably best ignored. Unless you are moving one of those three levers (mainly the first two), value isn't being created. And, none of those three levers involve geography. It does not matter what big cities are nearby. It does not matter what DMA combines what fans. Ignoring the third factor, it only matters how many fans care and how much they care. Everything else is as relevant to the conversation as a random map of South America.

Remember, many schools make more money from local dollars (ticket sales, parking, concessions, seat licenses, etc.) than from national media deals.

So you have to consider the impact on attendance and local fan interest. E.g., if you are Tulane, it may be the case that TV values San Diego State more than Southern Miss, but if Southern Miss, thanks to geographic proximity, will draw more fans to your stadium, than from your POV Southern Miss is the better AAC addition.

(02-24-2016 10:39 AM)nzmorange Wrote:  Arbitrary geographic divisions are just that. They're arbitrary geographic divisions. They're meaningless.

There are three ways in which schools add media value:
1) Viewers (i.e. fans) will pay for access to their games
2) Viewers (i.e. fans) will watch their games (and buy the products being advertised)
3) The viewers who watch their games have a favorable co-variance with the other content in their media package

The first two relate to fans, and the last one is too detailed for any of us to know, and there's no reason to think that any one school is special, so it's probably best ignored. Unless you are moving one of those three levers (mainly the first two), value isn't being created. And, none of those three levers involve geography. It does not matter what big cities are nearby. It does not matter what DMA combines what fans. Ignoring the third factor, it only matters how many fans care and how much they care. Everything else is as relevant to the conversation as a random map of South America.

True, geographic boundaries don't matter, but the boundaries of cable tv providers do... as in which areas will pay $1.00/month for a given sports channel, and which areas will only pay $0.10/month... sometimes that follows state boundaries.

(02-23-2016 11:09 PM)BamaScorpio69 Wrote:  

(02-22-2016 04:29 PM)Gray Avenger Wrote:  The Big 12 not only has the worst footprint gap among the "Autonomy 5" conferences, it has the fewest number of states and the lowest population, by far. The Big 12's 5 states have a total population of only 37.8 million compared to:

SEC - 11 states w/ 95.6 million

Big 10 - 11 states w/ 85.1 million

ACC - 10 states w/ 104.2 million

PAC 12 - 6 states w/ 65.7 million

The Big 12 needs to expand.

Do you have a link that says low population and footprint gap is a concern for Big 12 reps and members?

I don't even know if it IS a concern with most Big 12 reps other than Boren, but it seems to me that as a matter of common sense (sorry, no link), that it should be. Maybe it doesn't make a large difference, but I believe viewership and recruiting for a given conference is improved to some degree in states which have at least one member school. It's "out of sight - out of mind" in reverse.

(02-24-2016 01:47 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(02-24-2016 10:39 AM)nzmorange Wrote:  Arbitrary geographic divisions are just that. They're arbitrary geographic divisions. They're meaningless.

There are three ways in which schools add media value:
1) Viewers (i.e. fans) will pay for access to their games
2) Viewers (i.e. fans) will watch their games (and buy the products being advertised)
3) The viewers who watch their games have a favorable co-variance with the other content in their media package

The first two relate to fans, and the last one is too detailed for any of us to know, and there's no reason to think that any one school is special, so it's probably best ignored. Unless you are moving one of those three levers (mainly the first two), value isn't being created. And, none of those three levers involve geography. It does not matter what big cities are nearby. It does not matter what DMA combines what fans. Ignoring the third factor, it only matters how many fans care and how much they care. Everything else is as relevant to the conversation as a random map of South America.

True, geographic boundaries don't matter, but the boundaries of cable tv providers do... as in which areas will pay $1.00/month for a given sports channel, and which areas will only pay $0.10/month... sometimes that follows state boundaries.

That's only true if you assume TV execs are too dumb to use weighted averages.

(02-24-2016 11:43 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(02-24-2016 10:39 AM)nzmorange Wrote:  Arbitrary geographic divisions are just that. They're arbitrary geographic divisions. They're meaningless.

There are three ways in which schools add media value:
1) Viewers (i.e. fans) will pay for access to their games
2) Viewers (i.e. fans) will watch their games (and buy the products being advertised)
3) The viewers who watch their games have a favorable co-variance with the other content in their media package

The first two relate to fans, and the last one is too detailed for any of us to know, and there's no reason to think that any one school is special, so it's probably best ignored. Unless you are moving one of those three levers (mainly the first two), value isn't being created. And, none of those three levers involve geography. It does not matter what big cities are nearby. It does not matter what DMA combines what fans. Ignoring the third factor, it only matters how many fans care and how much they care. Everything else is as relevant to the conversation as a random map of South America.

Remember, many schools make more money from local dollars (ticket sales, parking, concessions, seat licenses, etc.) than from national media deals.

So you have to consider the impact on attendance and local fan interest. E.g., if you are Tulane, it may be the case that TV values San Diego State more than Southern Miss, but if Southern Miss, thanks to geographic proximity, will draw more fans to your stadium, than from your POV Southern Miss is the better AAC addition.

IMHO, TV money is incredibly overblown for just that reason.

Size of a TV market is an important fact but the analysis does not stop there. You have to look at actual number of football fans and viewers in those markets to get a real sense about impact that certain geographical areas will add to a conference.

For example, Birmingham is the 45th largest TV market in the nation. When you look at it in terms of football viewers, however, Birmingham is 1st in collegiate sports TV markets. Based on one study, Birmingham is estimated to have the 6th most number of college football fans in the US with an estimated 1.7 million college football fans (behind NYC, Atlanta, LA, Dallas, and Chicago in that order).

In essence, TV markets matter but there are limits to the utility of them based on percentage of sports viewers and specifically those who follow college football.

(02-24-2016 04:39 PM)Blazer85 Wrote:  Size of a TV market is an important fact but the analysis does not stop there. You have to look at actual number of football fans and viewers in those markets to get a real sense about impact that certain geographical areas will add to a conference.

For example, Birmingham is the 45th largest TV market in the nation. When you look at it in terms of football viewers, however, Birmingham is 1st in collegiate sports TV markets. Based on one study, Birmingham is estimated to have the 6th most number of college football fans in the US with an estimated 1.7 million college football fans (behind NYC, Atlanta, LA, Dallas, and Chicago in that order).

In essence, TV markets matter but there are limits to the utility of them based on percentage of sports viewers and specifically those who follow college football.

What all do they include in that? They must include a lot more than simply Birmingham and its immediate surroundings.

The whole Birmingham statistical area doesn't have 1.7 million people in it period. It's about 1.3 million total.

(02-24-2016 04:39 PM)Blazer85 Wrote:  Size of a TV market is an important fact but the analysis does not stop there. You have to look at actual number of football fans and viewers in those markets to get a real sense about impact that certain geographical areas will add to a conference.

For example, Birmingham is the 45th largest TV market in the nation. When you look at it in terms of football viewers, however, Birmingham is 1st in collegiate sports TV markets. Based on one study, Birmingham is estimated to have the 6th most number of college football fans in the US with an estimated 1.7 million college football fans (behind NYC, Atlanta, LA, Dallas, and Chicago in that order).

In essence, TV markets matter but there are limits to the utility of them based on percentage of sports viewers and specifically those who follow college football.

I agree, same goes for the NOLA market in terms of percentage of FBall viewers. However, league care a lot about total cable subscribers because of the service fees that the league network generates. However, I see, many people in the NY market blowing a gasket if they are forced to pay for the B10 network of B12 network (if UConn is added). With people looking for any reason to cut the cord the cable providers are trying not to pi$$ there already pi$$ed of customers.

(02-24-2016 04:49 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(02-24-2016 04:39 PM)Blazer85 Wrote:  Size of a TV market is an important fact but the analysis does not stop there. You have to look at actual number of football fans and viewers in those markets to get a real sense about impact that certain geographical areas will add to a conference.

For example, Birmingham is the 45th largest TV market in the nation. When you look at it in terms of football viewers, however, Birmingham is 1st in collegiate sports TV markets. Based on one study, Birmingham is estimated to have the 6th most number of college football fans in the US with an estimated 1.7 million college football fans (behind NYC, Atlanta, LA, Dallas, and Chicago in that order).

In essence, TV markets matter but there are limits to the utility of them based on percentage of sports viewers and specifically those who follow college football.

What all do they include in that? They must include a lot more than simply Birmingham and its immediate surroundings.

The whole Birmingham statistical area doesn't have 1.7 million people in it period. It's about 1.3 million total.

Yes it was based on the Birmingham TV market area (includes around 20 counties in Central Alabama) which has a population of close to 2.1 million. Based on their research 85% of the Birmingham TV market regularly follows college football giving the 1.7 million college football fans number.

(02-24-2016 04:25 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  

(02-24-2016 01:47 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(02-24-2016 10:39 AM)nzmorange Wrote:  Arbitrary geographic divisions are just that. They're arbitrary geographic divisions. They're meaningless.

There are three ways in which schools add media value:
1) Viewers (i.e. fans) will pay for access to their games
2) Viewers (i.e. fans) will watch their games (and buy the products being advertised)
3) The viewers who watch their games have a favorable co-variance with the other content in their media package

The first two relate to fans, and the last one is too detailed for any of us to know, and there's no reason to think that any one school is special, so it's probably best ignored. Unless you are moving one of those three levers (mainly the first two), value isn't being created. And, none of those three levers involve geography. It does not matter what big cities are nearby. It does not matter what DMA combines what fans. Ignoring the third factor, it only matters how many fans care and how much they care. Everything else is as relevant to the conversation as a random map of South America.

True, geographic boundaries don't matter, but the boundaries of cable tv providers do... as in which areas will pay $1.00/month for a given sports channel, and which areas will only pay $0.10/month... sometimes that follows state boundaries.

That's only true if you assume TV execs are too dumb to use weighted averages.

but isn't that exactly how is HAS worked out for both the SEC and B1G Networks?