To say this board is divided about the coach is an understatement. I have noticed one of the complaints/concerns (among many) has been the number of transfers. I do not follow any other program that closely so I don't know if we are out of the box or if so how far out of the box we are. My question is, how many of the transfers have gone on to be productive at other programs and how many faded into the sunset? I understand that no matter the outcome it is still a failure in evaluating talent and or coaching/motivating the talent. But i was just curious.

Numbers alone - Tarik Black lost stats after the transfer to Kansas and to Bill Self --- And just think if Skal, the projected #1 pick in the NBA draft, produced here as he has under Calipari. There's another side to any story.

(02-09-2016 10:24 PM)TIGERCITY Wrote:  Numbers alone - Tarik Black lost stats after the transfer to Kansas and to Bill Self --- And just think if Skal, the projected #1 pick in the NBA draft, produced here as he has under Calipari. There's another side to any story.

If he has signed with the Tiger's and had the same results, the thread would be pinned to the top of the board with about a half million hits. It would top AN threads. Heck people might even forget about AN.

Not arguing either way.

I know we can take each player situation that didn't live up to the hype and logically explain why that particular kid didn't work and never could have worked anywhere... because the player was defective...lol.

It still doesn't answer these questions: 1. Why did we have so many players that didn't live up to potential and 2. Why did the obvious talent not coalesce to produce more satisfying team results.

Woodson didn't last at UT, Barton was good.

Don't know what Kendrick did at UNLV.

Tarik was about the same.

Kuran blew up.

Jury is out on a few.

(02-09-2016 11:15 PM)HoopDreams Wrote:  Woodson didn't last at UT, Barton was good.

Don't know what Kendrick did at UNLV.

Tarik was about the same.

Kuran blew up.

Jury is out on a few.

AN will likely kill it at Virginia
Nick King is the one that I am interested. Also hated losing him.

Some guys also simply weren't able to get minutes and they transferred not for discipline reasons, but being recruited over (guys like Damien Wilson), those transfers are part of high level D1 basketball.

I never saw it as a major issue until reason. Even Black leaving wasn't a big deal with the the frontcourt we had coming in.

Pookie, King, Nichols, Dominic Magee and Damien Wilson

For the love of god man.

There is nearly universal agreement that, especially based on the last season and a half, that unless things dramatically change, we should likely look another direction.

The divide is in how some decide to express that. Constructively, still discussing games and the like, or nastily, mockingly, and with bashing anyone who essentially, does not bash.

It is a talking point by the thugs to characterize is anyone who is not nasty as being in the tank for a coach or the like. It is simply a piece of crapola to defend spewing nasty insulting mouth diarrhea.

I think I'm lost therefore I am...?

Nichols is probably the one exception to all of this because he was good here and will be good at Virginia but....

I think locally the fans and media over hype the local kids. The kids buy it and come to campus believing they are better than the records/results they achieve. I'm not saying Pastner isn't guilty of not getting the most out of the players but so far the ones who have gone pro don't blossom into NBA players. They are good enough to play professionally overseas or D-league but they didn't look like future NBA pros when they played here and still don't after a few years away working on their game.

I'm interested to see what Nick King does at Alabama next year. He's one of those guys that people thought wasn't used correctly by Pastner. I expect he'll be better simply because he's a year older that much more time to work on his game. Of all the guys that left after last year, he's the one I think might have the biggest impact.

Here's what I got, did I miss anyone?

Roburt Sallie - tried to grad-transfer to Louisville, but didn't graduate from Memphis in time.
Drew Barham - transferred to Gonzaga, 5 ppg & shot 46% from 3 over 2 years.
Pierre Henderson-Niles - left team in Feb. 2010
Jelan Kendrick - transferred to Ole Miss (kicked off), then to Juco, then UNLV - avg. 7 ppg over 2 years.
Antonio Barton - transferred to Tennessee, averaged 8 ppg. 2 apg. on 38% shooting from 3 over 2 years.
Tarik Black - grad-transferred to Kansas - was a reserve. Stats mirror his time at Memphis.
Charles Carmouche - grad-transferred to LSU, 11 ppg. 4 apg. on 37% shooting from 3
Damien Wilson - transferred to Kennesaw State, currently avg. 11 & 5.
Dominic Woodson - transferred to Tennessee, kicked off team.
Nick King - transferred to Alabama, sitting out.
Austin Nichols - transferred to Virginia, sitting out.
Pookie Powell - transferred to La Salle, sitting out.
Kuran Iverson - transferred to Rhode Island, currently avg. 11 & 7
Dominic Magee - transferred to Grand Canyon, currently avg. 9 & 2.


Overall, most didn't really hurt us. He has lost a lot, but the impact was rather limited until we lost this last batch...Nichols, King, and Iverson will all be solid CBB players. This team would be very different if we still had them...MAKES ME SICK TO THINK ABOUT!!!

(02-09-2016 11:48 PM)HometownTiger Wrote:  Here's what I got, did I miss anyone?

Roburt Sallie - tried to grad-transfer to Louisville, but didn't graduate from Memphis in time.
Drew Barham - transferred to Gonzaga, 5 ppg & shot 46% from 3 over 2 years.
Pierre Henderson-Niles - left team in Feb. 2010
Jelan Kendrick - transferred to Ole Miss (kicked off), then to Juco, then UNLV - avg. 7 ppg over 2 years.
Antonio Barton - transferred to Tennessee, averaged 8 ppg. 2 apg. on 38% shooting from 3 over 2 years.
Tarik Black - grad-transferred to Kansas - was a reserve. Stats mirror his time at Memphis.
Charles Carmouche - grad-transferred to LSU, 11 ppg. 4 apg. on 37% shooting from 3
Damien Wilson - transferred to Kennesaw State, currently avg. 11 & 5.
Dominic Woodson - transferred to Tennessee, kicked off team.
Nick King - transferred to Alabama, sitting out.
Austin Nichols - transferred to Virginia, sitting out.
Pookie Powell - transferred to La Salle, sitting out.
Kuran Iverson - transferred to Rhode Island, currently avg. 11 & 7
Dominic Magee - transferred to Grand Canyon, currently avg. 9 & 2.


Overall, most didn't really hurt us. He has lost a lot, but the impact was rather limited until we lost this last batch...Nichols, King, and Iverson will all be solid CBB players. This team would be very different if we still had them...MAKES ME SICK TO THINK ABOUT!!!

Coach K could not have kept Nichols at Memphis. It was very personal choice to transfer and most players would have. King will never be a 3 in the NBA and in all probability not for a high major in CBB unless he cures 3 problems with his game. Iverson would be putting up those numbers if JP had tolerated his BS. Good coaches would have put him on road just like Pastner who I wanted gone yesterday.

So it's a case by case basis. Pastners erratic sub patterns have caused many of these transfers but Cal had same problem and has done well with it. Do it my my or highway. Cal commands respect.

(02-09-2016 11:15 PM)HoopDreams Wrote:  Woodson didn't last at UT, Barton was good.

Don't know what Kendrick did at UNLV.

Tarik was about the same.

Kuran blew up.

Jury is out on a few.

Blew up is exaggerating.

(02-10-2016 12:03 AM)tigers1125 Wrote:  

(02-09-2016 11:48 PM)HometownTiger Wrote:  Here's what I got, did I miss anyone?

Roburt Sallie - tried to grad-transfer to Louisville, but didn't graduate from Memphis in time.
Drew Barham - transferred to Gonzaga, 5 ppg & shot 46% from 3 over 2 years.
Pierre Henderson-Niles - left team in Feb. 2010
Jelan Kendrick - transferred to Ole Miss (kicked off), then to Juco, then UNLV - avg. 7 ppg over 2 years.
Antonio Barton - transferred to Tennessee, averaged 8 ppg. 2 apg. on 38% shooting from 3 over 2 years.
Tarik Black - grad-transferred to Kansas - was a reserve. Stats mirror his time at Memphis.
Charles Carmouche - grad-transferred to LSU, 11 ppg. 4 apg. on 37% shooting from 3
Damien Wilson - transferred to Kennesaw State, currently avg. 11 & 5.
Dominic Woodson - transferred to Tennessee, kicked off team.
Nick King - transferred to Alabama, sitting out.
Austin Nichols - transferred to Virginia, sitting out.
Pookie Powell - transferred to La Salle, sitting out.
Kuran Iverson - transferred to Rhode Island, currently avg. 11 & 7
Dominic Magee - transferred to Grand Canyon, currently avg. 9 & 2.


Overall, most didn't really hurt us. He has lost a lot, but the impact was rather limited until we lost this last batch...Nichols, King, and Iverson will all be solid CBB players. This team would be very different if we still had them...MAKES ME SICK TO THINK ABOUT!!!

Coach K could not have kept Nichols at Memphis. It was very personal choice to transfer and most players would have. King will never be a 3 in the NBA and in all probability not for a high major in CBB unless he cures 3 problems with his game. Iverson would be putting up those numbers if JP had tolerated his BS. Good coaches would have put him on road just like Pastner who I wanted gone yesterday.

So it's a case by case basis. Pastners erratic sub patterns have caused many of these transfers but Cal had same problem and has done well with it. Do it my my or highway. Cal commands respect.

I'm just saying, I think Nichols, King, and Iverson will all end up being very good college players. At the same time Memphis will have a shortage of those...it's gonna suck.

Per SI, a third of the top 100 recruits do not end their college careers at the same college they began.

http://www.si.com/college-basketball/201...sfer-study

(02-09-2016 11:48 PM)HometownTiger Wrote:  Here's what I got, did I miss anyone?

Roburt Sallie - tried to grad-transfer to Louisville, but didn't graduate from Memphis in time.
Drew Barham - transferred to Gonzaga, 5 ppg & shot 46% from 3 over 2 years.
Pierre Henderson-Niles - left team in Feb. 2010
Jelan Kendrick - transferred to Ole Miss (kicked off), then to Juco, then UNLV - avg. 7 ppg over 2 years.
Antonio Barton - transferred to Tennessee, averaged 8 ppg. 2 apg. on 38% shooting from 3 over 2 years.
Tarik Black - grad-transferred to Kansas - was a reserve. Stats mirror his time at Memphis.
Charles Carmouche - grad-transferred to LSU, 11 ppg. 4 apg. on 37% shooting from 3
Damien Wilson - transferred to Kennesaw State, currently avg. 11 & 5.
Dominic Woodson - transferred to Tennessee, kicked off team.
Nick King - transferred to Alabama, sitting out.
Austin Nichols - transferred to Virginia, sitting out.
Pookie Powell - transferred to La Salle, sitting out.
Kuran Iverson - transferred to Rhode Island, currently avg. 11 & 7
Dominic Magee - transferred to Grand Canyon, currently avg. 9 & 2.


Overall, most didn't really hurt us. He has lost a lot, but the impact was rather limited until we lost this last batch...Nichols, King, and Iverson will all be solid CBB players. This team would be very different if we still had them...MAKES ME SICK TO THINK ABOUT!!!

Thank you very much! this is the info i was looking for. some make me scratch my head others I understand completely. Still a Tiger fan just last couple of years it has been hard to keep track of who the Tigers are. Thanks again for the info.

(02-09-2016 10:00 PM)hongkongtiger Wrote:  To say this board is divided about the coach is an understatement. I have noticed one of the complaints/concerns (among many) has been the number of transfers. I do not follow any other program that closely so I don't know if we are out of the box or if so how far out of the box we are. My question is, how many of the transfers have gone on to be productive at other programs and how many faded into the sunset? I understand that no matter the outcome it is still a failure in evaluating talent and or coaching/motivating the talent. But i was just curious.

While Tigers are above average in the numbers it is not exclusively Tiger based issue. There has been an epidemic of transfers in the past 10 years. Even see it in high schools.

Problem is everyone of the four and five star players and many of the 3 star actually believe they are the next big star in the NBA. One year in college and then they are going to rake in the dough in the NBA. When they do not see instant success they blame forces outside the limitations of their abilities and their desire to work hard.

The list provided by Hometowntiger while not detailed as to reasons for transfer, was still very telling. Very few produced any better than they did at Memphis while playing similar schedule.

About a third had to do with fighting between either other players, others students or with GF. Another large group had to do with the player not reaching potential. Many were under or just came pit from under disciplinary action when they left.

As long as we keep filling these kids heads with the idea that a basketball is their only hope for a better future. Then we will continue to see them react when things do not go the way they feel it should be as quickly as the feel it should be.

(02-10-2016 01:27 AM)roundhouse74 Wrote:  Per SI, a third of the top 100 recruits do not end their college careers at the same college they began.

http://www.si.com/college-basketball/201...sfer-study

First, thanks to the op.
Second, thanks to hometown for the complete list.
Third, this sports illustrated story speaks volumes.
Fourth, how many of our transfers attended more than 1 high school? There seems to be a direct correlation between transferring high schools and transferring in college.

My suspicion is that while pastner certainly deserves a share of the blame, he's not the only factor.

(02-09-2016 11:48 PM)HometownTiger Wrote:  Here's what I got, did I miss anyone?

Roburt Sallie - tried to grad-transfer to Louisville, but didn't graduate from Memphis in time.
Drew Barham - transferred to Gonzaga, 5 ppg & shot 46% from 3 over 2 years.
Pierre Henderson-Niles - left team in Feb. 2010
Jelan Kendrick - transferred to Ole Miss (kicked off), then to Juco, then UNLV - avg. 7 ppg over 2 years.
Antonio Barton - transferred to Tennessee, averaged 8 ppg. 2 apg. on 38% shooting from 3 over 2 years.
Tarik Black - grad-transferred to Kansas - was a reserve. Stats mirror his time at Memphis.
Charles Carmouche - grad-transferred to LSU, 11 ppg. 4 apg. on 37% shooting from 3
Damien Wilson - transferred to Kennesaw State, currently avg. 11 & 5.
Dominic Woodson - transferred to Tennessee, kicked off team.
Nick King - transferred to Alabama, sitting out.
Austin Nichols - transferred to Virginia, sitting out.
Pookie Powell - transferred to La Salle, sitting out.
Kuran Iverson - transferred to Rhode Island, currently avg. 11 & 7
Dominic Magee - transferred to Grand Canyon, currently avg. 9 & 2.


Overall, most didn't really hurt us. He has lost a lot, but the impact was rather limited until we lost this last batch...Nichols, King, and Iverson will all be solid CBB players. This team would be very different if we still had them...MAKES ME SICK TO THINK ABOUT!!!

The biggest way all of those mostly unexpected transfers hurt Memphis' program thru the years was lack of continuity...as when a veteran transferred, many times, Pastner had to go for the quick fix to fill in the gap, i.e. JUCO or go after a transfer himself...and that hurt building up quality depth in the program.

Point being...its not whether a transferred player from the program went on to be a star at another program or not...having so many transfers out of a program forced Pastner to take risks on some quick fixes, some that obviously didn't work out.

(02-09-2016 11:48 PM)HometownTiger Wrote:  Here's what I got, did I miss anyone?

Roburt Sallie - tried to grad-transfer to Louisville, but didn't graduate from Memphis in time.
Drew Barham - transferred to Gonzaga, 5 ppg & shot 46% from 3 over 2 years.
Pierre Henderson-Niles - left team in Feb. 2010
Jelan Kendrick - transferred to Ole Miss (kicked off), then to Juco, then UNLV - avg. 7 ppg over 2 years.
Antonio Barton - transferred to Tennessee, averaged 8 ppg. 2 apg. on 38% shooting from 3 over 2 years.
Tarik Black - grad-transferred to Kansas - was a reserve. Stats mirror his time at Memphis.
Charles Carmouche - grad-transferred to LSU, 11 ppg. 4 apg. on 37% shooting from 3
Damien Wilson - transferred to Kennesaw State, currently avg. 11 & 5.
Dominic Woodson - transferred to Tennessee, kicked off team.
Nick King - transferred to Alabama, sitting out.
Austin Nichols - transferred to Virginia, sitting out.
Pookie Powell - transferred to La Salle, sitting out.
Kuran Iverson - transferred to Rhode Island, currently avg. 11 & 7
Dominic Magee - transferred to Grand Canyon, currently avg. 9 & 2.


Overall, most didn't really hurt us. He has lost a lot, but the impact was rather limited until we lost this last batch...Nichols, King, and Iverson will all be solid CBB players. This team would be very different if we still had them...MAKES ME SICK TO THINK ABOUT!!!

FWIW....Damien's not listed on the Kennesaw State roster any longer. I saw this a few weeks ago on the ever-popular "Owl Howl," which looks like a rumor mill thing:

Hearing from multiple sources that he is ineligible due to academics. Wilson was a talented player, but in my opinion more trouble than he was worth and not a great influence for the younger players.