Quote:“I think there was significant magnification of the flood levels on the Meramec by recent developments near the river,” he said. “Sure it rained a lot, but what happened here cannot be explained by the rainfall alone.”

The flood on the middle Mississippi River, in turn, was remarkable for its short duration and the time of year. “It was essentially a winter flash flood on a continental-scale river,” Criss said. “The Mississippi has been so channelized and leveed close to St. Louis that it now responds like a much smaller river.”

In the February issue of the Journal of Earth Science, Criss and visiting scholar Mingming Luo of the China University of Geosciences in Wuhan, China, take a close look at data for the New Year’s flood, treating it as a giant natural experiment that allowed them to test their understanding of changing river dynamics.

“Flooding is becoming more chaotic and unpredictable, more frequent and more severe,” Criss said. “Additional changes to this overbuilt river system will only aggravate flooding.

https://source.wustl.edu/2016/02/record-...tist-says/

I was there in St. Louis during that time. I think parts of town near the river got about 10-11 inches over 2-3 days. You're going to get flooding wherever you are if you get double digits in precip over a short time. If it's less than that (we had 4-5 inches at the farm I was staying), and one of the main freeways is flooded for two days, then that's a problem.

(02-06-2016 03:02 AM)dmacfour Wrote:  

Quote:“I think there was significant magnification of the flood levels on the Meramec by recent developments near the river,” he said. “Sure it rained a lot, but what happened here cannot be explained by the rainfall alone.”

The flood on the middle Mississippi River, in turn, was remarkable for its short duration and the time of year. “It was essentially a winter flash flood on a continental-scale river,” Criss said. “The Mississippi has been so channelized and leveed close to St. Louis that it now responds like a much smaller river.”

In the February issue of the Journal of Earth Science, Criss and visiting scholar Mingming Luo of the China University of Geosciences in Wuhan, China, take a close look at data for the New Year’s flood, treating it as a giant natural experiment that allowed them to test their understanding of changing river dynamics.

“Flooding is becoming more chaotic and unpredictable, more frequent and more severe,” Criss said. “Additional changes to this overbuilt river system will only aggravate flooding.

https://source.wustl.edu/2016/02/record-...tist-says/

This is another non-news news story. Water is wet. Anyone with a civil engineering degree knows that levees raise the flood stage, channelization speeds flow while increasing the flood level elevation previously attenuated by the longer channel, and that filling floodplain for development increases the flood stage.

Levees are a bad idea. Development in the floodplain is bad idea. The best idea is to stay back from the river and let it do what it wants to do in flood events. It will do what it wants anyway.

(02-06-2016 03:02 AM)dmacfour Wrote:  

Quote:“I think there was significant magnification of the flood levels on the Meramec by recent developments near the river,” he said. “Sure it rained a lot, but what happened here cannot be explained by the rainfall alone.”

The flood on the middle Mississippi River, in turn, was remarkable for its short duration and the time of year. “It was essentially a winter flash flood on a continental-scale river,” Criss said. “The Mississippi has been so channelized and leveed close to St. Louis that it now responds like a much smaller river.”

In the February issue of the Journal of Earth Science, Criss and visiting scholar Mingming Luo of the China University of Geosciences in Wuhan, China, take a close look at data for the New Year’s flood, treating it as a giant natural experiment that allowed them to test their understanding of changing river dynamics.

“Flooding is becoming more chaotic and unpredictable, more frequent and more severe,” Criss said. “Additional changes to this overbuilt river system will only aggravate flooding.

https://source.wustl.edu/2016/02/record-...tist-says/

Poppycock.

(02-06-2016 03:02 AM)dmacfour Wrote:  

Quote:“I think there was significant magnification of the flood levels on the Meramec by recent developments near the river,” he said. “Sure it rained a lot, but what happened here cannot be explained by the rainfall alone.”

The flood on the middle Mississippi River, in turn, was remarkable for its short duration and the time of year. “It was essentially a winter flash flood on a continental-scale river,” Criss said. “The Mississippi has been so channelized and leveed close to St. Louis that it now responds like a much smaller river.”

In the February issue of the Journal of Earth Science, Criss and visiting scholar Mingming Luo of the China University of Geosciences in Wuhan, China, take a close look at data for the New Year’s flood, treating it as a giant natural experiment that allowed them to test their understanding of changing river dynamics.

“Flooding is becoming more chaotic and unpredictable, more frequent and more severe,” Criss said. “Additional changes to this overbuilt river system will only aggravate flooding.

https://source.wustl.edu/2016/02/record-...tist-says/

Horseshit. He says "I think" then says that past historical records can't be used to predict future flood potential. Never says what man has "done" to cause this. He's fishing for grant money.

(02-06-2016 07:51 AM)GeorgeBorkFan Wrote:  

(02-06-2016 03:02 AM)dmacfour Wrote:  

Quote:“I think there was significant magnification of the flood levels on the Meramec by recent developments near the river,” he said. “Sure it rained a lot, but what happened here cannot be explained by the rainfall alone.”

The flood on the middle Mississippi River, in turn, was remarkable for its short duration and the time of year. “It was essentially a winter flash flood on a continental-scale river,” Criss said. “The Mississippi has been so channelized and leveed close to St. Louis that it now responds like a much smaller river.”

In the February issue of the Journal of Earth Science, Criss and visiting scholar Mingming Luo of the China University of Geosciences in Wuhan, China, take a close look at data for the New Year’s flood, treating it as a giant natural experiment that allowed them to test their understanding of changing river dynamics.

“Flooding is becoming more chaotic and unpredictable, more frequent and more severe,” Criss said. “Additional changes to this overbuilt river system will only aggravate flooding.

https://source.wustl.edu/2016/02/record-...tist-says/

This is another non-news news story. Water is wet. Anyone with a civil engineering degree knows that levees raise the flood stage, channelization speeds flow while increasing the flood level elevation previously attenuated by the longer channel, and that filling floodplain for development increases the flood stage.

Levees are a bad idea. Development in the floodplain is bad idea. The best idea is to stay back from the river and let it do what it wants to do in flood events. It will do what it wants anyway.

Eventually it will. About 25 years ago they were scared their system would fail and Baton Rouge and New Orleans would be left without water as the main course would be down the Atchafalya. Its overdue to change its course. It last changed around 1000 AD.

(02-06-2016 09:43 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  Horseshit. He says "I think" then says that past historical records can't be used to predict future flood potential. Never says what man has "done" to cause this. He's fishing for grant money.

They talk extensively in there about the construction of the levees and the development in the floodplains. Those are two things right there that man has done.

(02-06-2016 10:54 AM)GeorgeBorkFan Wrote:  

(02-06-2016 09:43 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  Horseshit. He says "I think" then says that past historical records can't be used to predict future flood potential. Never says what man has "done" to cause this. He's fishing for grant money.

They talk extensively in there about the construction of the levees and the development in the floodplains. Those are two things right there that man has done.

Levees are nothing new and are not a valid reason to negate historical data from periods in which levees also existed. As for development of the plains, if that has changed the balance then somebody violated federal laws by not having net zero impact. If people choose to live in a flood plain, they do so at their own risk.

(02-06-2016 12:40 PM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(02-06-2016 10:54 AM)GeorgeBorkFan Wrote:  

(02-06-2016 09:43 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  Horseshit. He says "I think" then says that past historical records can't be used to predict future flood potential. Never says what man has "done" to cause this. He's fishing for grant money.

They talk extensively in there about the construction of the levees and the development in the floodplains. Those are two things right there that man has done.

Levees are nothing new and are not a valid reason to negate historical data from periods in which levees also existed. As for development of the plains, if that has changed the balance then somebody violated federal laws by not having net zero impact. If people choose to live in a flood plain, they do so at their own risk.

You can't talk levees without talking floodplains. A levee removes storage in the floodplain just as sure as development in the floodplain does. Development continues to take place in floodplains. Its happening around St. Louis for sure. Federal law doesn't prohibit development in floodplains or in floodways. Typically, those are regulated by the states. And, in Illinois, for example, there is no state law prohibiting development in floodplains. There is only prohibition on development in floodways.

The only way the feds are involved in floodplain development is through the flood insurance program.

Increasing urbanization, even with stormwater detention, causes impacts to flooding on river systems too.

(02-06-2016 09:43 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  

(02-06-2016 03:02 AM)dmacfour Wrote:  

Quote:“I think there was significant magnification of the flood levels on the Meramec by recent developments near the river,” he said. “Sure it rained a lot, but what happened here cannot be explained by the rainfall alone.”

The flood on the middle Mississippi River, in turn, was remarkable for its short duration and the time of year. “It was essentially a winter flash flood on a continental-scale river,” Criss said. “The Mississippi has been so channelized and leveed close to St. Louis that it now responds like a much smaller river.”

In the February issue of the Journal of Earth Science, Criss and visiting scholar Mingming Luo of the China University of Geosciences in Wuhan, China, take a close look at data for the New Year’s flood, treating it as a giant natural experiment that allowed them to test their understanding of changing river dynamics.

“Flooding is becoming more chaotic and unpredictable, more frequent and more severe,” Criss said. “Additional changes to this overbuilt river system will only aggravate flooding.

https://source.wustl.edu/2016/02/record-...tist-says/

Horseshit. He says "I think" then says that past historical records can't be used to predict future flood potential. Never says what man has "done" to cause this. He's fishing for grant money.

Thank you. Not that I think he's NECESSARILY wrong, but you are dead on with this. It's what scientists do, and it puts a taint on their conclusions. Global Warming Scientists come to mind...

Damn near every year we face this same schit on the major rivers. Why can't some system be developed to take advantage of this and take as much of this unwanted water as possible to places that can use it. Maybe a series of large gate locked canals going to reservoirs and then pipelines...ect. When the floods come..open the gates and capture the excess water. There are current technologies being used that can pump water directly back into aquifers for storage. There are probably other ways to store water also.

With the enormous amount of money we have and will spend on flood clean up and damage, it would look like a good investment in the infrastructure. It could also ease the economic destruction of floods and droughts.

(02-06-2016 01:31 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  Damn near every year we face this same schit on the major rivers. Why can't some system be developed to take advantage of this and take as much of this unwanted water as possible to places that can use it. Maybe a series of large gate locked canals going to reservoirs and then pipelines...ect. When the floods come..open the gates and capture the excess water. There are current technologies being used that can pump water directly back into aquifers for storage. There are probably other ways to store water also.
With the enormous amount of money we have and will spend on flood clean up and damage, it would look like a good investment in the infrastructure. It could also ease the economic destruction of floods and droughts.

Yep.

(02-06-2016 07:51 AM)GeorgeBorkFan Wrote:  

(02-06-2016 03:02 AM)dmacfour Wrote:  

Quote:“I think there was significant magnification of the flood levels on the Meramec by recent developments near the river,” he said. “Sure it rained a lot, but what happened here cannot be explained by the rainfall alone.”

The flood on the middle Mississippi River, in turn, was remarkable for its short duration and the time of year. “It was essentially a winter flash flood on a continental-scale river,” Criss said. “The Mississippi has been so channelized and leveed close to St. Louis that it now responds like a much smaller river.”

In the February issue of the Journal of Earth Science, Criss and visiting scholar Mingming Luo of the China University of Geosciences in Wuhan, China, take a close look at data for the New Year’s flood, treating it as a giant natural experiment that allowed them to test their understanding of changing river dynamics.

“Flooding is becoming more chaotic and unpredictable, more frequent and more severe,” Criss said. “Additional changes to this overbuilt river system will only aggravate flooding.

https://source.wustl.edu/2016/02/record-...tist-says/

This is another non-news news story. Water is wet. Anyone with a civil engineering degree knows that levees raise the flood stage, channelization speeds flow while increasing the flood level elevation previously attenuated by the longer channel, and that filling floodplain for development increases the flood stage.

Levees are a bad idea. Development in the floodplain is bad idea. The best idea is to stay back from the river and let it do what it wants to do in flood events. It will do what it wants anyway.

with a golf clap from this hole

(02-06-2016 02:18 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(02-06-2016 01:31 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  Damn near every year we face this same schit on the major rivers. Why can't some system be developed to take advantage of this and take as much of this unwanted water as possible to places that can use it. Maybe a series of large gate locked canals going to reservoirs and then pipelines...ect. When the floods come..open the gates and capture the excess water. There are current technologies being used that can pump water directly back into aquifers for storage. There are probably other ways to store water also.
With the enormous amount of money we have and will spend on flood clean up and damage, it would look like a good investment in the infrastructure. It could also ease the economic destruction of floods and droughts.

Yep.

b/c it costs too much money now in relative spending

is just another residual effect of spending to keep boomers and their worthless kiddies alive via large gubberment...

infrastructure maintenance.....who'd a thunk it?

Sounds like the plot of a James Bond villain.

(02-06-2016 10:54 AM)GeorgeBorkFan Wrote:  

(02-06-2016 09:43 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  Horseshit. He says "I think" then says that past historical records can't be used to predict future flood potential. Never says what man has "done" to cause this. He's fishing for grant money.

They talk extensively in there about the construction of the levees and the development in the floodplains. Those are two things right there that man has done.

Yep, build a house in a flood plane and you get man made flooding.

(02-06-2016 03:46 PM)VA49er Wrote:  

(02-06-2016 10:54 AM)GeorgeBorkFan Wrote:  

(02-06-2016 09:43 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  Horseshit. He says "I think" then says that past historical records can't be used to predict future flood potential. Never says what man has "done" to cause this. He's fishing for grant money.

They talk extensively in there about the construction of the levees and the development in the floodplains. Those are two things right there that man has done.

Yep, build a house in a flood plane and you get man made flooding.

Floodplains have changed due to man caused impacts. Building a levee north of St. Louis on the Mississippi increases the flood elevation (and the size of the floodplain) south of St. Louis.

Of course, some people have structures in the mapped floodplain. They should get out.

Man caused changes have increased flood height elevations. That isn't arguable.

(02-06-2016 02:18 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(02-06-2016 01:31 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  Damn near every year we face this same schit on the major rivers. Why can't some system be developed to take advantage of this and take as much of this unwanted water as possible to places that can use it. Maybe a series of large gate locked canals going to reservoirs and then pipelines...ect. When the floods come..open the gates and capture the excess water. There are current technologies being used that can pump water directly back into aquifers for storage. There are probably other ways to store water also.
With the enormous amount of money we have and will spend on flood clean up and damage, it would look like a good investment in the infrastructure. It could also ease the economic destruction of floods and droughts.

Yep.

Water is going to be a major problem in America at some point. We already are seeing it out West. I have a relative that lives in Alameda just across the Golden Gate Bridge. The stories she tells about how the use of water controls their lives is crazy.

When is the last time Americans got on board with a "National" infrastructure project? Something like this would give the same level decade long payback as the TVA or Hoover dam. I go on record saying I have zero problem paying for this type of infrastructure.

(02-06-2016 02:44 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(02-06-2016 02:18 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(02-06-2016 01:31 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  Damn near every year we face this same schit on the major rivers. Why can't some system be developed to take advantage of this and take as much of this unwanted water as possible to places that can use it. Maybe a series of large gate locked canals going to reservoirs and then pipelines...ect. When the floods come..open the gates and capture the excess water. There are current technologies being used that can pump water directly back into aquifers for storage. There are probably other ways to store water also.
With the enormous amount of money we have and will spend on flood clean up and damage, it would look like a good investment in the infrastructure. It could also ease the economic destruction of floods and droughts.

Yep.

b/c it costs too much money now in relative spending

is just another residual effect of spending to keep boomers and their worthless kiddies alive via large gubberment...

infrastructure maintenance.....who'd a thunk it?

Would it be expensive? Hell yeah. I have no idea how much something like this would cost..but..I bet if suddenly water becomes a national issue? We would somehow find the money to pay for it. IMO...It would be worth every penny. We are talking about infrastructure that would fundamentally change the country for the better..for decades after we are dead. Long term infrastructure has the BEST ROI on our tax dollars than anything.

Projects like this are the positive side of government and its ability to do things that the private sector simply could not. If things like this were the major thrust of governmental oversight?...I would be a fan of government. It is not unfortunately.

(02-07-2016 11:11 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(02-06-2016 02:44 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(02-06-2016 02:18 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(02-06-2016 01:31 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  Damn near every year we face this same schit on the major rivers. Why can't some system be developed to take advantage of this and take as much of this unwanted water as possible to places that can use it. Maybe a series of large gate locked canals going to reservoirs and then pipelines...ect. When the floods come..open the gates and capture the excess water. There are current technologies being used that can pump water directly back into aquifers for storage. There are probably other ways to store water also.
With the enormous amount of money we have and will spend on flood clean up and damage, it would look like a good investment in the infrastructure. It could also ease the economic destruction of floods and droughts.

Yep.

b/c it costs too much money now in relative spending

is just another residual effect of spending to keep boomers and their worthless kiddies alive via large gubberment...

infrastructure maintenance.....who'd a thunk it?

Would it be expensive? Hell yeah. I have no idea how much something like this would cost..but..I bet if suddenly water becomes a national issue? We would somehow find the money to pay for it. IMO...It would be worth every penny. We are talking about infrastructure that would fundamentally change the country for the better..for decades after we are dead. Long term infrastructure has the BEST ROI on our tax dollars than anything.

Projects like this are the positive side of government and its ability to do things that the private sector simply could not. If things like this were the major thrust of governmental oversight?...I would be a fan of government. It is not unfortunately.

To even begin your plan, you first see if you can find any more space for large reservoirs. In Cali they are trying to return Hetch Hedley to its natural state.