(12-20-2015 06:32 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(12-20-2015 06:24 PM)BufflOwl Wrote:  My concerns are we don't win games in an awful conference and therefore not enough people in the country care about our program. What would an email much less a meeting with Tanner or Shu (don't pretend id be able to get a meeting with the Athletic Directir) do to change that? Many more people who are far more influential than I am have expressed the same concerns and here we still find ourselves.

Therefore my alternatives to make an impact are continue to state in this very regularly monitored public forum that I think we can do better or go a way. What would you prefer I do?

Just because the product on the field is not up to par does not mean we, nor the athletic department, should ignore all of the other aspects of the Game Day experience. The athletic department is trying to be proactive and create an off-field product that is compelling.

Especially since the department has obviously not decided to part ways with the head coach, that is exactly what they should be doing - trying to get the house in order as best as possible, outside of the head coaching decision.

Forgive me, but that is like putting lipstick on a pig. If the product on the filed is not worth watching, fixing up the stadium will not draw folks in the stands.

I wrote Dr. K after the season that if a coaching change wasn't made, I wold not be renewing my season ticket. So, I did not get the survey. He has been silent about :Bailiff, as far as i know. One possible explanation for this might be that his desire to make a change was stifled by Leebron after the pr Luke Turner's story generated. I will continue to support MBB and Baseball but the U will have to show a change in attitude in football before I come back.

(12-21-2015 01:39 AM)NolaOwl Wrote:  

(12-20-2015 06:32 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(12-20-2015 06:24 PM)BufflOwl Wrote:  My concerns are we don't win games in an awful conference and therefore not enough people in the country care about our program. What would an email much less a meeting with Tanner or Shu (don't pretend id be able to get a meeting with the Athletic Directir) do to change that? Many more people who are far more influential than I am have expressed the same concerns and here we still find ourselves.

Therefore my alternatives to make an impact are continue to state in this very regularly monitored public forum that I think we can do better or go a way. What would you prefer I do?

Just because the product on the field is not up to par does not mean we, nor the athletic department, should ignore all of the other aspects of the Game Day experience. The athletic department is trying to be proactive and create an off-field product that is compelling.

Especially since the department has obviously not decided to part ways with the head coach, that is exactly what they should be doing - trying to get the house in order as best as possible, outside of the head coaching decision.

Forgive me, but that is like putting lipstick on a pig. If the product on the filed is not worth watching, fixing up the stadium will not draw folks in the stands.

I wrote Dr. K after the season that if a coaching change wasn't made, I wold not be renewing my season ticket. So, I did not get the survey. He has been silent about :Bailiff, as far as i know. One possible explanation for this might be that his desire to make a change was stifled by Leebron after the pr Luke Turner's story generated. I will continue to support MBB and Baseball but the U will have to show a change in attitude in football before I come back.

It is putting lipstick on a pig. But I am being realistic. Since the decision has been made to keep the pig, our best option moving forward is covering that thing in as much make up as possible so that we are not caught with our pants down when either that pig turns into something better or it is replaced.

The coaching change should have been the priority, IMO, but since it wasn't, the Athletic Department needs to try and continue to improve the quality of all other aspects of the game day experience.

Can someone who received the link to the survey forward a copy of the questions to those of us who did not?
I, for one, would like to see what they asked and how it was worded.

I am not an alumnus, and I don't buy season tickets, so I'm not on their radar.
But I have supported Rice athletics in my own way for quite a while.

What would you recommend as a way to have my opinions heard, short of attaching a Benjamin to a USPS letter? (even that might not work...)

And a big thank you to all of you who included The MOB in their requests for improvements.

(12-21-2015 09:37 AM)Grungy Wrote:  Can someone who received the link to the survey forward a copy of the questions to those of us who did not?
I, for one, would like to see what they asked and how it was worded.

I am not an alumnus, and I don't buy season tickets, so I'm not on their radar.
But I have supported Rice athletics in my own way for quite a while.

What would you recommend as a way to have my opinions heard, short of attaching a Benjamin to a USPS letter? (even that might not work...)

And a big thank you to all of you who included The MOB in their requests for improvements.

I'll dig it up, but the survey was pretty straight forward. It had sections on concessions, in game experiences (sound quality, half time performances), facilities, parking, etc.

It didn't delve into anything outside of the superficial aspects of the game day experience. It did provide a pretty open ended ability to respond at the end by asking basically, what, in general, could be done to improve the Rice football experience.

edit: I just wanted to say that I did give a shout out to the MOB needing better support as I've noticed participation drop off a cliff from when I matriculated in '07. I used to bemoan some of the MOB's antics during games, but in hind sight, I'd much rather bemoan weird antics than have an invisible MOB.

(12-21-2015 01:39 AM)NolaOwl Wrote:  

(12-20-2015 06:32 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(12-20-2015 06:24 PM)BufflOwl Wrote:  My concerns are we don't win games in an awful conference and therefore not enough people in the country care about our program. What would an email much less a meeting with Tanner or Shu (don't pretend id be able to get a meeting with the Athletic Directir) do to change that? Many more people who are far more influential than I am have expressed the same concerns and here we still find ourselves.

Therefore my alternatives to make an impact are continue to state in this very regularly monitored public forum that I think we can do better or go a way. What would you prefer I do?

Just because the product on the field is not up to par does not mean we, nor the athletic department, should ignore all of the other aspects of the Game Day experience. The athletic department is trying to be proactive and create an off-field product that is compelling.

Especially since the department has obviously not decided to part ways with the head coach, that is exactly what they should be doing - trying to get the house in order as best as possible, outside of the head coaching decision.

Forgive me, but that is like putting lipstick on a pig. If the product on the filed is not worth watching, fixing up the stadium will not draw folks in the stands.

I wrote Dr. K after the season that if a coaching change wasn't made, I wold not be renewing my season ticket. So, I did not get the survey. He has been silent about :Bailiff, as far as i know. One possible explanation for this might be that his desire to make a change was stifled by Leebron after the pr Luke Turner's story generated. I will continue to support MBB and Baseball but the U will have to show a change in attitude in football before I come back.

I sent the AD a similar email and received the survey. I am not sure why you did not.

(12-21-2015 10:43 AM)WIowl Wrote:  

(12-21-2015 01:39 AM)NolaOwl Wrote:  

(12-20-2015 06:32 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(12-20-2015 06:24 PM)BufflOwl Wrote:  My concerns are we don't win games in an awful conference and therefore not enough people in the country care about our program. What would an email much less a meeting with Tanner or Shu (don't pretend id be able to get a meeting with the Athletic Directir) do to change that? Many more people who are far more influential than I am have expressed the same concerns and here we still find ourselves.

Therefore my alternatives to make an impact are continue to state in this very regularly monitored public forum that I think we can do better or go a way. What would you prefer I do?

Just because the product on the field is not up to par does not mean we, nor the athletic department, should ignore all of the other aspects of the Game Day experience. The athletic department is trying to be proactive and create an off-field product that is compelling.

Especially since the department has obviously not decided to part ways with the head coach, that is exactly what they should be doing - trying to get the house in order as best as possible, outside of the head coaching decision.

Forgive me, but that is like putting lipstick on a pig. If the product on the filed is not worth watching, fixing up the stadium will not draw folks in the stands.

I wrote Dr. K after the season that if a coaching change wasn't made, I wold not be renewing my season ticket. So, I did not get the survey. He has been silent about :Bailiff, as far as i know. One possible explanation for this might be that his desire to make a change was stifled by Leebron after the pr Luke Turner's story generated. I will continue to support MBB and Baseball but the U will have to show a change in attitude in football before I come back.

I sent the AD a similar email and received the survey. I am not sure why you did not.

+1000. The survey went out to ALL season ticketholders. They didn't sort through I took those who have been critical off the distribution list.

(12-21-2015 10:46 AM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  +1000. The survey went out to ALL season ticketholders. They didn't sort through I took those who have been critical off the distribution list.

It has to have been. Otherwise, I would be the first one off the list

I didn't get a survey. Guess they don't want to hear what I have to say.

(12-21-2015 09:37 AM)Grungy Wrote:  Can someone who received the link to the survey forward a copy of the questions to those of us who did not?
I, for one, would like to see what they asked and how it was worded.

Here you go.

(12-21-2015 12:01 PM)bobreinhold1 Wrote:  I didn't get a survey. Guess they don't want to hear what I have to say.

Don't feel bad Bob, I didn't get the email either.

So it definitely wasn't ALL season ticket holders. I guess there are just too many?

(12-21-2015 07:20 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(12-21-2015 01:39 AM)NolaOwl Wrote:  

(12-20-2015 06:32 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(12-20-2015 06:24 PM)BufflOwl Wrote:  My concerns are we don't win games in an awful conference and therefore not enough people in the country care about our program. What would an email much less a meeting with Tanner or Shu (don't pretend id be able to get a meeting with the Athletic Directir) do to change that? Many more people who are far more influential than I am have expressed the same concerns and here we still find ourselves.

Therefore my alternatives to make an impact are continue to state in this very regularly monitored public forum that I think we can do better or go a way. What would you prefer I do?

Just because the product on the field is not up to par does not mean we, nor the athletic department, should ignore all of the other aspects of the Game Day experience. The athletic department is trying to be proactive and create an off-field product that is compelling.

Especially since the department has obviously not decided to part ways with the head coach, that is exactly what they should be doing - trying to get the house in order as best as possible, outside of the head coaching decision.

Forgive me, but that is like putting lipstick on a pig. If the product on the filed is not worth watching, fixing up the stadium will not draw folks in the stands.

I wrote Dr. K after the season that if a coaching change wasn't made, I wold not be renewing my season ticket. So, I did not get the survey. He has been silent about :Bailiff, as far as i know. One possible explanation for this might be that his desire to make a change was stifled by Leebron after the pr Luke Turner's story generated. I will continue to support MBB and Baseball but the U will have to show a change in attitude in football before I come back.

It is putting lipstick on a pig. But I am being realistic. Since the decision has been made to keep the pig, our best option moving forward is covering that thing in as much make up as possible so that we are not caught with our pants down when either that pig turns into something better or it is replaced.

The coaching change should have been the priority, IMO, but since it wasn't, the Athletic Department needs to try and continue to improve the quality of all other aspects of the game day experience.

(12-21-2015 01:39 AM)NolaOwl Wrote:  

(12-20-2015 06:32 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(12-20-2015 06:24 PM)BufflOwl Wrote:  My concerns are we don't win games in an awful conference and therefore not enough people in the country care about our program. What would an email much less a meeting with Tanner or Shu (don't pretend id be able to get a meeting with the Athletic Directir) do to change that? Many more people who are far more influential than I am have expressed the same concerns and here we still find ourselves.

Therefore my alternatives to make an impact are continue to state in this very regularly monitored public forum that I think we can do better or go a way. What would you prefer I do?

Just because the product on the field is not up to par does not mean we, nor the athletic department, should ignore all of the other aspects of the Game Day experience. The athletic department is trying to be proactive and create an off-field product that is compelling.

Especially since the department has obviously not decided to part ways with the head coach, that is exactly what they should be doing - trying to get the house in order as best as possible, outside of the head coaching decision.

Forgive me, but that is like putting lipstick on a pig. If the product on the filed is not worth watching, fixing up the stadium will not draw folks in the stands.

I wrote Dr. K after the season that if a coaching change wasn't made, I wold not be renewing my season ticket. So, I did not get the survey. He has been silent about :Bailiff, as far as i know. One possible explanation for this might be that his desire to make a change was stifled by Leebron after the pr Luke Turner's story generated. I will continue to support MBB and Baseball but the U will have to show a change in attitude in football before I come back.

Bailiff wasn't retained because of anything Luke Turner said or because the university doesn't have the money to buy out his contract. Bailiff is at Rice because his bosses want him at Rice. He's a "Rice guy." He gets it. He does what the university hired him to do. Karlgaard and Leebron are in his corner.

(12-21-2015 01:36 PM)Afflicted Wrote:  Bailiff wasn't retained because of anything Luke Turner said or because the university doesn't have the money to buy out his contract. Bailiff is at Rice because his bosses want him at Rice. He's a "Rice guy." He gets it. He does what the university hired him to do. Karlgaard and Leebron are in his corner.

Which means they need to hear from everyone who does not agree with their decision. It may or may not sway future decisions, but they need to be fully aware that a significant portion of the support base is unhappy.

(12-21-2015 04:03 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(12-21-2015 01:36 PM)Afflicted Wrote:  Bailiff wasn't retained because of anything Luke Turner said or because the university doesn't have the money to buy out his contract. Bailiff is at Rice because his bosses want him at Rice. He's a "Rice guy." He gets it. He does what the university hired him to do. Karlgaard and Leebron are in his corner.

Which means they need to hear from everyone who does not agree with their decision. It may or may not sway future decisions, but they need to be fully aware that a significant portion of the support base is unhappy.

That's fair, but no one should attempt to justify Karlgaard's decision to keep Bailiff, based on erroneous assumptions like a player making a passionate speech about his coach, or like the university not having the money to buy out his contract. That's just funny. Rice with no money? A lot of folks here are going to have to deal with the fact that Karlgaard and Leebron like David Bailiff. They want him as the football coach. Their hands aren't tied in this matter in any way at all.

(12-21-2015 04:23 PM)Afflicted Wrote:  

(12-21-2015 04:03 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(12-21-2015 01:36 PM)Afflicted Wrote:  Bailiff wasn't retained because of anything Luke Turner said or because the university doesn't have the money to buy out his contract. Bailiff is at Rice because his bosses want him at Rice. He's a "Rice guy." He gets it. He does what the university hired him to do. Karlgaard and Leebron are in his corner.

Which means they need to hear from everyone who does not agree with their decision. It may or may not sway future decisions, but they need to be fully aware that a significant portion of the support base is unhappy.

That's fair, but no one should attempt to justify Karlgaard's decision to keep Bailiff, based on erroneous assumptions like a player making a passionate speech about his coach, or like the university not having the money to buy out his contract. That's just funny. Rice with no money? A lot of folks here are going to have to deal with the fact that Karlgaard and Leebron like David Bailiff. They want him as the football coach. Their hands aren't tied in this matter in any way at all.

So, you're saying that one is on them.

(12-21-2015 04:36 PM)GoodOwl Wrote:  

(12-21-2015 04:23 PM)Afflicted Wrote:  

(12-21-2015 04:03 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(12-21-2015 01:36 PM)Afflicted Wrote:  Bailiff wasn't retained because of anything Luke Turner said or because the university doesn't have the money to buy out his contract. Bailiff is at Rice because his bosses want him at Rice. He's a "Rice guy." He gets it. He does what the university hired him to do. Karlgaard and Leebron are in his corner.

Which means they need to hear from everyone who does not agree with their decision. It may or may not sway future decisions, but they need to be fully aware that a significant portion of the support base is unhappy.

That's fair, but no one should attempt to justify Karlgaard's decision to keep Bailiff, based on erroneous assumptions like a player making a passionate speech about his coach, or like the university not having the money to buy out his contract. That's just funny. Rice with no money? A lot of folks here are going to have to deal with the fact that Karlgaard and Leebron like David Bailiff. They want him as the football coach. Their hands aren't tied in this matter in any way at all.

So, you're saying that one is on them.

I'd say 100%. I do not think the buy out is too big to keep DB from being fired. There are people in the athletic department or administration that, to me, obviously do not want him to be fired.

I think they're wrong, but I don't think it is monetary reasons that are keeping him here after this year. He has three years left on his contract (through 2018). How expensive could that be for a coach making $800k per year?

edit: by the way, I assume that some of these feelings have evolved slightly, but here is what JK said after giving DB the extension:

"David Bailiff is exactly the right leader for our football program,” athletic director Joe Karlgaard said. “He's a great coach, a genuine mentor to our kids, and a terrific participant in the community. I'm thrilled to work with a man of his caliber, and I look forward to his continued leadership of the Rice Owls."

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball...-extension

What I am unhappy about is 50 years of decline in Rice football and basketball. We have lost much of our support base including alumni. At my 40th reunion last November, there were probably more that did not go to the game than did. One was at the Bar-B-Q but left to go back to her hotel to rest before the 1970s party starting at 5. I was at the Southern Miss game but left after the 3rd quarter to go to the party. I was already disgusted by halftime but even retreating to the Owl Club provided no real satisfaction because I really did not see anyone I knew. My classmates at the reunion were more interested in the upcoming baseball season than football. This is not just about my class because more of us attended games as students than the present students do even though the present class is much bigger. The homecoming weekend was good except the horrible football game. I do not have a complaint about the conditions at the stadium, but the bad football game was painful to watch.

We have no long term future in CUSA because our potential fan base is not interested in seeing out of state directional schools. We might have some come to see UTSA or North Texas but who really wants to see Western Kentucky or Middle Tennessee? Our only hope of retaining big time football over the long term is either getting in the Mountain West, AAC or a P5 conference. The setback of the lousy 2015 might hurt us in getting a better conference. I had more hope of improvement after the 2013 championship, but we are declining now.

I have more hope in basketball because of the New Mexico road win but we should not be losing to HBU. Baseball is the only sport where we are important nationally. I am glad Wayne has been able to do much better than the rest of the department.

Baliff is a nice guy, but we are not getting the results we need in football.

(12-21-2015 04:03 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(12-21-2015 01:36 PM)Afflicted Wrote:  Bailiff wasn't retained because of anything Luke Turner said or because the university doesn't have the money to buy out his contract. Bailiff is at Rice because his bosses want him at Rice. He's a "Rice guy." He gets it. He does what the university hired him to do. Karlgaard and Leebron are in his corner.

Which means they need to hear from everyone who does not agree with their decision. It may or may not sway future decisions, but they need to be fully aware that a significant portion of the support base is unhappy.

(12-21-2015 04:50 PM)75src Wrote:  What I am unhappy about is 50 years of decline in Rice football and basketball. We have lost much of our support base including alumni. At my 40th reunion last November, there were probably more that did not go to the game than did. One was at the Bar-B-Q but left to go back to her hotel to rest before the 1970s party starting at 5. I was at the Southern Miss game but left after the 3rd quarter to go to the party. I was already disgusted by halftime but even retreating to the Owl Club provided no real satisfaction because I really did not see anyone I knew. My classmates at the reunion were more interested in the upcoming baseball season than football. This is not just about my class because more of us attended games as students than the present students do even though the present class is much bigger. The homecoming weekend was good except the horrible football game. I do not have a complaint about the conditions at the stadium, but the bad football game was painful to watch.

We have no long term future in CUSA because our potential fan base is not interested in seeing out of state directional schools. We might have some come to see UTSA or North Texas but who really wants to see Western Kentucky or Middle Tennessee? Our only hope of retaining big time football over the long term is either getting in the Mountain West, AAC or a P5 conference. The setback of the lousy 2015 might hurt us in getting a better conference. I had more hope of improvement after the 2013 championship, but we are declining now.

I have more hope in basketball because of the New Mexico road win but we should not be losing to HBU. Baseball is the only sport where we are important nationally. I am glad Wayne has been able to do much better than the rest of the department.

Baliff is a nice guy, but we are not getting the results we need in football.

I am from '01 and my classmates are not going back until Bailiff is out, they attended the homecoming activities but refused to go to the game. I think this is a common sentiment, but the AD feels differently.

(12-21-2015 04:36 PM)GoodOwl Wrote:  

(12-21-2015 04:23 PM)Afflicted Wrote:  

(12-21-2015 04:03 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Which means they need to hear from everyone who does not agree with their decision. It may or may not sway future decisions, but they need to be fully aware that a significant portion of the support base is unhappy.

That's fair, but no one should attempt to justify Karlgaard's decision to keep Bailiff, based on erroneous assumptions like a player making a passionate speech about his coach, or like the university not having the money to buy out his contract. That's just funny. Rice with no money? A lot of folks here are going to have to deal with the fact that Karlgaard and Leebron like David Bailiff. They want him as the football coach. Their hands aren't tied in this matter in any way at all.

So, you're saying that one is on them.

100%. JK should get big massive praise if Bailiff turns it around and goes 10-2 and he should get massive criticism if it is another 5-7 season or worse.

(12-21-2015 01:36 PM)Afflicted Wrote:  

(12-21-2015 01:39 AM)NolaOwl Wrote:  

(12-20-2015 06:32 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(12-20-2015 06:24 PM)BufflOwl Wrote:  My concerns are we don't win games in an awful conference and therefore not enough people in the country care about our program. What would an email much less a meeting with Tanner or Shu (don't pretend id be able to get a meeting with the Athletic Directir) do to change that? Many more people who are far more influential than I am have expressed the same concerns and here we still find ourselves.

Therefore my alternatives to make an impact are continue to state in this very regularly monitored public forum that I think we can do better or go a way. What would you prefer I do?

Just because the product on the field is not up to par does not mean we, nor the athletic department, should ignore all of the other aspects of the Game Day experience. The athletic department is trying to be proactive and create an off-field product that is compelling.

Especially since the department has obviously not decided to part ways with the head coach, that is exactly what they should be doing - trying to get the house in order as best as possible, outside of the head coaching decision.

Forgive me, but that is like putting lipstick on a pig. If the product on the filed is not worth watching, fixing up the stadium will not draw folks in the stands.

I wrote Dr. K after the season that if a coaching change wasn't made, I wold not be renewing my season ticket. So, I did not get the survey. He has been silent about :Bailiff, as far as i know. One possible explanation for this might be that his desire to make a change was stifled by Leebron after the pr Luke Turner's story generated. I will continue to support MBB and Baseball but the U will have to show a change in attitude in football before I come back.

Bailiff wasn't retained because of anything Luke Turner said or because the university doesn't have the money to buy out his contract. Bailiff is at Rice because his bosses want him at Rice. He's a "Rice guy." He gets it. He does what the university hired him to do. Karlgaard and Leebron are in his corner.

Will you quit repeating this nonsense. I know Bucky A. feels this way about DB (as they are close personal friends), but not JK, and I very much doubt Leebron.