for us to stop being a stepping stone?
Aside from the obvious of being in a P5 conference and facilities upgrades. Will Memphis ever be a destination job for anyone?

BTW, I didn't think Fuente would stay forever but at least stay long enough to actually BUILD the program not just lay a very thin foundation like he has done. I wish him well but I'm very disappointed in his decision to leave.

P5 invite. Undefeated run. A special circumstance-local ties...loves Memphis

nothing. We will never be one of the top5 so we will always be a stepping stone. Even getting into the P5 will help, but there will always be better jobs.

(11-25-2015 08:21 AM)SmokyTiger Wrote:  for us to stop being a stepping stone?
Aside from the obvious of being in a P5 conference and facilities upgrades. Will Memphis ever be a destination job for anyone?

BTW, I didn't think Fuente would stay forever but at least stay long enough to actually BUILD the program not just lay a very thin foundation like he has done. I wish him well but I'm very disappointed in his decision to leave.

He has stayed 4 years, Houston is losing their coach after 1 year.

Ole Miss, Louisvile , and Cincy are stepping stones, even Michigan State is a stepping stone we can be more of a destination job but coaches leave jobs when they suck and when they are very succesful ..

Yeah, P5 invite and probably something else that ties the person to Memphis. Otherwise, particularly in football, if we get a good coach we won't keep them very long.

(11-25-2015 08:21 AM)SmokyTiger Wrote:  for us to stop being a stepping stone?
Aside from the obvious of being in a P5 conference and facilities upgrades. Will Memphis ever be a destination job for anyone?

BTW, I didn't think Fuente would stay forever but at least stay long enough to actually BUILD the program not just lay a very thin foundation like he has done. I wish him well but I'm very disappointed in his decision to leave.

There are stepping stones in P5...heck, there are stepping stones inside the same P5 conferences.

Unless you have one of the 5-8 richest football programs around...every other coach is basically "available", almost anytime someone wants them (i.e. Florida paying then Colorado State Coach Jim McElwain's $7 Million buyout...THEN his salary) or when one programs wants you to do (i.e. LSU maybe paying Les Miles $15 Million to go away).

Don't worry about stepping stones...as every smart AD always has 3-5 coaching candidates for EVERY SPORT in case their coach(es) bolt unexpectedly (or as expected.)

So what's the longest any successful coach at Memphis would be expected to stay?
And why can't we be like TCU?

(11-25-2015 08:24 AM)tigerjamesc Wrote:  P5 invite. Undefeated run. A special circumstance-local ties...loves Memphis

This is pretty much it. We could end up like TCU, but Gary Patterson is a bit of an anomaly. Having someone who loves the university and the region is the way with which we could overcome this hurdle. We essentially tried that with Larry Porter. A lot of people think Ole Miss has this in place now with Hugh Freeze. He loves the area. But, their fans aren't too keen on him, either, right now.

A P5 job would certainly make us less of a stepping stone, but there will always be programs ahead of us. If Alabama, Ohio State, or someone similar is interested, nearly every coach will listen.

Sadly," a stepping stone " is an improvement for our program.
In the mid 70s, our HC Pancoast accepted a HC job at Vandy. That is the only example of a Memphis HC being lured away to another HC position.

Looking at it from a glass half full perspective, we should be happy that our HC and program have a reached a level of success where other programs have an interest in our HC.

A P5 invite will be the major step towards this - until then, count on being a stepping stone. No good coach wants to be on the outside looking in on P5 schools getting all the $ and TV time. We (our former AD) made very poor choices at a critical time - we let the FB program run down and become a national laughing stock at the very time when conference expansions were in full swing. Louisville, on the other hand, made good choices at this same time - they put money behind their FB program, hired a good coach, and got in the ACC as a consequence. Now it doesn't matter as much - they are already in the conference and their FB program success can go up and down. Same as with Vandy - once you're in, you're in.

It's a good question...and I think the answer will vary from University to University.

For Florida State, it took the right hire: Bobby Bowden. The Seminoles were an afterthought in football until Coach Bowden arrived and completely made them into a national powerhouse.

For TCU, it was getting into a Power 5 conference and getting the right coach in Gary Patterson. From 1965 through 1999, TCU had gone to five bowl games. Since 2000 when Patterson took the reigns, they have gone to 13 bowl games and won 7 conference championships.

Baylor had sporadic success from 1970 through 1994, going to 9 bowls over that period. Then they fell into a 16 year drought of no bowl until they hired Art Briles, who has taken them to a bowl every year he's been there.

I know that for every example there is of making the right hire at head coach, there are examples of getting into the right conference or making improvements to facilities. That said, for Memphis, I think the first priority is finding a coach who is committed to staying for the long haul and and who is capable of building a winning tradition...even more so than getting into a P5 conference. And in this day and age, finding a coach who's willing to do that is proving to be more and more difficult without being in a P5 conference...thus the conundrum.

(11-25-2015 08:21 AM)SmokyTiger Wrote:  for us to stop being a stepping stone?
Aside from the obvious of being in a P5 conference and facilities upgrades. Will Memphis ever be a destination job for anyone?

BTW, I didn't think Fuente would stay forever but at least stay long enough to actually BUILD the program not just lay a very thin foundation like he has done. I wish him well but I'm very disappointed in his decision to leave.

At one point in time a coach could build something from nothing (aka Bobby Bowden). In today's era of college football there is a predetermined ceiling based on nothing more than conference affiliation due to the subjective nature and media bias involved in determining who gets one of 4 spots in a "playoff". So unfortunately a coach can no longer just stay at one place to build something from nothing because since the BCS era began it has been proven that no matter how much you win, you will not be able to play for a championship unless you are in a certain conference. We have to get an invite to a power conference. That is the ONLY way we, or anyone else, outside of the power conferences has to become more than a stepping stone.

(11-25-2015 09:00 AM)presskh Wrote:  A P5 invite will be the major step towards this - until then, count on being a stepping stone. No good coach wants to be on the outside looking in on P5 schools getting all the $ and TV time. We (our former AD) made very poor choices at a critical time - we let the FB program run down and become a national laughing stock at the very time when conference expansions were in full swing. Louisville, on the other hand, made good choices at this same time - they put money behind their FB program, hired a good coach, and got in the ACC as a consequence. Now it doesn't matter as much - they are already in the conference and their FB program success can go up and down. Same as with Vandy - once you're in, you're in.

I was hoping Fuente would stay till a P5 invite happened. Maybe he sees the writing on the wall and we are going to be left on the outside looking in.

Never say never ... but it's pretty unlikely that we aren't a "stepping stone" job. The same can be said for all but a handful of jobs in the country though...

Things that would come into play...

- Power 5 affiliation
- Competitive facilities/pay
- Increased fan support
- Proven ability to get elite local recruits
- Someone with regional or local ties / really loves the city

There are about 20 schools that aren't stepping stones I'm just glad our rich folks are not paying 3 bad football coaches at the same time for a change

If Odom takes the job how long does he stay? Less than Fuente if he's as good as they say because we are not the dumpster fire we were when Fuente got here. Wont take as long to prove successful.

(11-25-2015 01:08 PM)SmokyTiger Wrote:  If Odom takes the job how long does he stay? Less than Fuente if he's as good as they say because we are not the dumpster fire we were when Fuente got here. Wont take as long to prove successful.

Still, losing a coach due to success is preferable to losing one due to firing him.

(11-25-2015 01:19 PM)RekeHavoc Wrote:  

(11-25-2015 01:08 PM)SmokyTiger Wrote:  If Odom takes the job how long does he stay? Less than Fuente if he's as good as they say because we are not the dumpster fire we were when Fuente got here. Wont take as long to prove successful.

Still, losing a coach due to success if preferable to losing one due to firing him.

That's true. And if keeps happening that way you could say we are the stepping stones of stepping stones!

"Take the Memphis job you'll go places"!

Yeah I'm happy to be a stepping stone at this point. We weren't anything before. And it's all about not worrying about who the coach is but what "the program" is. Like Boise State is a program now, doesn't matter as much who the coach is. And with the way college football is now, outside of a few coaches everyone is going to be fired or leave from all over the base. I mean Les Miles is about to get fired.