(10-07-2015 09:09 AM)trusty1 Wrote:  

(10-07-2015 09:01 AM)moehler Wrote:  we will have to just disagree about the talent, I still don't understand your take on last years game, Astate should have won easily? Really? App from the mid first quarter to the mid 4th dominated that game, wasn't lucky breaks, or turnovers, our overall talent was every bit, if not better in alot positions than A-States, the only reason the final score was relatively close, was a combination of App pulling the starters too early in the 4th, and the worst Special teams in the entire FBS, which I believe gave up back to back onside kicks very late in the game. honestly I guess this is a mote point, your going to say A-State overlooked App and played flat, I'm saying App's talent was just as good or better in a lot of positions.

App State was a transition team and therefore does not, and could ever have, the talent as the almighty AState, period....you should know better.

Dangit! I keep forgetting!

I have no dog in the fight concerning the App/ASU game last year. But what I do know is what the box score tells me:

Passing yards:
255 - App
147 - ASU

Rushing yards:
294 - App
147 - ASU

Total yards:
549 - App
314 - ASU

Time of possession:
41:46 - App
18:14 - ASU

First downs:
29 - App
14 - ASU

This is with App having twice as many penalties (10) as ASU (5) and twice as many turnovers (2) as ASU (1).

Imma have to go with the App side on this one.

I stopped taking Seminole Indian seriously when he started talking about how Texas is going to turn around their recruiting this year. Their class is awful, they're gonna finish 3-9, and I don't think they win a single head to head recruiting battle with A&M or TCU for anybody left on the board.

Arkie State doesn't have top 3 talent in the Belt.

(10-07-2015 07:09 PM)TheMackAttack Wrote:  I stopped taking Seminole Indian seriously when he started talking about how Texas is going to [b]turn around their recruiting this year. [/b] Their class is awful, they're gonna finish 3-9, and I don't think they win a single head to head recruiting battle with A&M or TCU for anybody left on the board.

I said that?

(10-08-2015 01:57 AM)eagleskins Wrote:  Arkie State doesn't have top 3 talent in the Belt.

You are right they have the best roster of talent in the SBC, (and for all but 1 1/2 games the worse qb in the sbc).

(10-07-2015 10:28 AM)Yosef84 Wrote:  With all due respect to Seminole Indian and what he is "paid to know", there is simply not sufficient data available to "know" the talent on these teams. I'm sure he has made an evaluate of available data and formed an opinion, but that is all that it is....an opinion. App has a history of taking athletes recruited with zero to no "stars" (by the services) and putting them into the NFL. I know "know" how we will stack up against Ark. State this year, but I simply don't believe that they will beat us "easily" even if they manage to get all their Red Wolves in a row. I expect it to be a "rip snorter" of a game and I'm glad that I'll get to see it in person.

Regarding last year's game, Ark State "came charging back" only when App went into a prevent defense. (Have I mentioned that I HATE prevent defense)? IMOP, the game last year was not actually as close as the score indicates.

Bottom line is that last year is in the books. This is a new year. The fact that App beat UL and stAte last year has ZERO impact on this year other than possible motivation to the teams. Ark State and UL have under-performed this year and I'm sure they are disappointed. App and GS aren't sneaking up on anybody this year. It's going to be a fun season of SBC football! Screw the OOC games! It's just getting started!

Really? That is sure going to be a shock to a lot of people.

Don't recall anyone every asking me who was the best team, but if they ever do, then I would do like everyone else, look at the many credible sources that do a good job of comparing teams performances, and ranking them (and normally after 4-5 games they are pretty accurate).

If they asked me today I would look at the data provided by the many credible sources that do these things (which I often post here to counter balance the rankings posters here are making up here), and say the consensus top two are GaSo, and AppSt, A-State looks to be a solid #3, after that opinions vary a little. Is that what everyone else seeing from these 'credible' sources?

Back on task i do expect A-State will be favored in most of their games going forward ( and if their qbs perform even close to what was expected maybe all of them) because they have more talent than all of them and for the same reasons they were big favorites over AppSt, and TxSt last year.

You were the one that initially said you were "paid to know", he was quoting you. He never said anything about best team. Pay attention, you went down the rabbit hole with your paid opinion on who has the most talent.

(10-08-2015 06:42 AM)SBEagle Wrote:  You were the one that initially said you were "paid to know", he was quoting you. He never said anything about best team. Pay attention, you went down the rabbit hole with your paid opinion on who has the most talent.

That is correct, and A-State has the most talent roster of players in the SBC, but he was obviously focusing on performance at the end of his post.

(10-08-2015 06:47 AM)Seminole Indian Wrote:  

(10-08-2015 06:42 AM)SBEagle Wrote:  You were the one that initially said you were "paid to know", he was quoting you. He never said anything about best team. Pay attention, you went down the rabbit hole with your paid opinion on who has the most talent.

That is correct, and A-State has the most talent roster of players in the SBC, but he was obviously focusing on performance at the end of his post.

You highlighted the top portion of his post?

(10-08-2015 06:51 AM)SBEagle Wrote:  

(10-08-2015 06:47 AM)Seminole Indian Wrote:  

(10-08-2015 06:42 AM)SBEagle Wrote:  You were the one that initially said you were "paid to know", he was quoting you. He never said anything about best team. Pay attention, you went down the rabbit hole with your paid opinion on who has the most talent.

That is correct, and A-State has the most talent roster of players in the SBC, but he was obviously focusing on performance at the end of his post.

You highlighted the top portion of his post?

That was just to emphasize that many would disagree with that.

But again he and others seem to think I'm saying who has the best team, and I'm not. Just who has the most talented roster of players.

Look the data clearly shows (and the scores of the only two good teams they played supports it) that AppSt, and GaSo are decent middle-of-the-pack fbs programs, A-State, and a couple of others not that far behind, and the rest of the sbc teams are at or near the bottom of the fbs food chain.

Based on the data thus far I would recommend that posters here stop using the term 'power' when they are creating their imaginary rankings.

Someone just paid me to look this up, so I thought I'd share. Arkansas State had disputably the #1 recruiting class in 2012, #5 in 2013, #3 in 2014, and #3 in 2015, which is a pretty good run. The greatest of that talent being in 2012 and who is left of that class is seniors and some redshirt juniors. Blake might want to try and do something with that superior talent soon, because not looking like he will have superior talent moving forward. With his inferior coaching and comparable talent, its going to be a long few seasons.

(10-08-2015 07:21 AM)APPrising Wrote:  Someone just paid me to look this up, so I thought I'd share. Arkansas State had disputably the #1 recruiting class in 2012, #5 in 2013, #3 in 2014, and #3 in 2015, which is a pretty good run. The greatest of that talent being in 2012 and who is left of that class is seniors and some redshirt juniors. Blake might want to try and do something with that superior talent soon, because not looking like he will have superior talent moving forward. With his inferior coaching and comparable talent, its going to be a long few seasons.

No one 'paid me' me to rank classes, I was paid to compare the talent on rosters.

Also opinions vary on recruiting ,so I will reference to a 24/7 because they use a composite ranking system, which I prefer, and they have A-State as having the top SBC four year class rankings in recruiting. Obviously players have made it onto their, and other sbc rosters, without impacting these rankings so you have to do the 'grunt' work to really know.

http://www.sbnation.com/college-football...ball-teams

Again A-State has the best roster of talent in the SBC, and that is an advantage over the course of a season and one of the reasons we can say with some confidence that they are an 8 win +/- 1 program. Who they will beat or lose to in achieving that record really does not concern me, and i don't really care.

(10-08-2015 07:41 AM)Seminole Indian Wrote:  

(10-08-2015 07:21 AM)APPrising Wrote:  Someone just paid me to look this up, so I thought I'd share. Arkansas State had disputably the #1 recruiting class in 2012, #5 in 2013, #3 in 2014, and #3 in 2015, which is a pretty good run. The greatest of that talent being in 2012 and who is left of that class is seniors and some redshirt juniors. Blake might want to try and do something with that superior talent soon, because not looking like he will have superior talent moving forward. With his inferior coaching and comparable talent, its going to be a long few seasons.

No one 'paid me' me to rank classes, I was paid to compare the talent on rosters.

Also opinions vary on recruiting ,so I will reference to a 24/7 because they use a composite ranking system, which I prefer, and they have A-State as having the #1 four year class ranking in recruiting. Again, players have made it onto their, and other sbc rosters, without impacting these rankings so you have to do the 'grunt' work to really know.

http://www.sbnation.com/college-football...ball-teams

When I go to 247 and choose team rankings, Arkansas State was not ranked #1 in the SunBelt 4 years in a row. Is there a separate ranking on their website you access for the composite rankings?

(10-08-2015 07:49 AM)APPrising Wrote:  

(10-08-2015 07:41 AM)Seminole Indian Wrote:  

(10-08-2015 07:21 AM)APPrising Wrote:  Someone just paid me to look this up, so I thought I'd share. Arkansas State had disputably the #1 recruiting class in 2012, #5 in 2013, #3 in 2014, and #3 in 2015, which is a pretty good run. The greatest of that talent being in 2012 and who is left of that class is seniors and some redshirt juniors. Blake might want to try and do something with that superior talent soon, because not looking like he will have superior talent moving forward. With his inferior coaching and comparable talent, its going to be a long few seasons.

No one 'paid me' me to rank classes, I was paid to compare the talent on rosters.

Also opinions vary on recruiting ,so I will reference to a 24/7 because they use a composite ranking system, which I prefer, and they have A-State as having the #1 four year class ranking in recruiting. Again, players have made it onto their, and other sbc rosters, without impacting these rankings so you have to do the 'grunt' work to really know.

http://www.sbnation.com/college-football...ball-teams

When I go to 247 and choose team rankings, Arkansas State was not ranked #1 in the SunBelt 4 years in a row. Is there a separate ranking on their website you access for the composite rankings?

Nevermind, #1 average class overall through the last 4 years, I got it. However, that will drop after this year when the 2012 class leaves, which was my point.

(10-08-2015 07:53 AM)APPrising Wrote:  

(10-08-2015 07:49 AM)APPrising Wrote:  

(10-08-2015 07:41 AM)Seminole Indian Wrote:  

(10-08-2015 07:21 AM)APPrising Wrote:  Someone just paid me to look this up, so I thought I'd share. Arkansas State had disputably the #1 recruiting class in 2012, #5 in 2013, #3 in 2014, and #3 in 2015, which is a pretty good run. The greatest of that talent being in 2012 and who is left of that class is seniors and some redshirt juniors. Blake might want to try and do something with that superior talent soon, because not looking like he will have superior talent moving forward. With his inferior coaching and comparable talent, its going to be a long few seasons.

No one 'paid me' me to rank classes, I was paid to compare the talent on rosters.

Also opinions vary on recruiting ,so I will reference to a 24/7 because they use a composite ranking system, which I prefer, and they have A-State as having the #1 four year class ranking in recruiting. Again, players have made it onto their, and other sbc rosters, without impacting these rankings so you have to do the 'grunt' work to really know.

http://www.sbnation.com/college-football...ball-teams

When I go to 247 and choose team rankings, Arkansas State was not ranked #1 in the SunBelt 4 years in a row. Is there a separate ranking on their website you access for the composite rankings?

Nevermind, #1 average class overall through the last 4 years, I got it. However, that will drop after this year when the 2012 class leaves, which was my point.

No problem but my point is you have no way of knowing at this point who will have the best roster next year, regardless.

This next class has not signed ( i do expect A-State will have one of the top , if not the top sbc class when all is said and done, because they are investing in the things recruits want), and because players have and will make it onto their roster 'off the recruiting radar'.

No recruiting service has Dee Liner, Chris Murray, Chase Robison, Robert Mondie,Cameron Echols-Luper, Paul Swanson, or Steven Montgomery on their roster, and that is the case with other players on other sbc teams.

You can only know next fall when the players report.

All I know is A-State has the best roster of talent in the sbc( which is why they have more pre-season all sbc selections than any other sbc team), and i can also say their younger talent is better overall than their older talent. What they do with that talent is their business.

i will say had it not been for all the coaching changes in their program over the last half-decade, their talent level would be more obvious, but should become more obvious going forward..

(10-08-2015 07:49 AM)APPrising Wrote:  

(10-08-2015 07:41 AM)Seminole Indian Wrote:  

(10-08-2015 07:21 AM)APPrising Wrote:  Someone just paid me to look this up, so I thought I'd share. Arkansas State had disputably the #1 recruiting class in 2012, #5 in 2013, #3 in 2014, and #3 in 2015, which is a pretty good run. The greatest of that talent being in 2012 and who is left of that class is seniors and some redshirt juniors. Blake might want to try and do something with that superior talent soon, because not looking like he will have superior talent moving forward. With his inferior coaching and comparable talent, its going to be a long few seasons.

No one 'paid me' me to rank classes, I was paid to compare the talent on rosters.

Also opinions vary on recruiting ,so I will reference to a 24/7 because they use a composite ranking system, which I prefer, and they have A-State as having the #1 four year class ranking in recruiting. Again, players have made it onto their, and other sbc rosters, without impacting these rankings so you have to do the 'grunt' work to really know.

http://www.sbnation.com/college-football...ball-teams

When I go to 247 and choose team rankings, Arkansas State was not ranked #1 in the SunBelt 4 years in a row. Is there a separate ranking on their website you access for the composite rankings?

No, sorry, all i have is this article.

(10-08-2015 08:09 AM)Seminole Indian Wrote:  

(10-08-2015 07:53 AM)APPrising Wrote:  

(10-08-2015 07:49 AM)APPrising Wrote:  

(10-08-2015 07:41 AM)Seminole Indian Wrote:  

(10-08-2015 07:21 AM)APPrising Wrote:  Someone just paid me to look this up, so I thought I'd share. Arkansas State had disputably the #1 recruiting class in 2012, #5 in 2013, #3 in 2014, and #3 in 2015, which is a pretty good run. The greatest of that talent being in 2012 and who is left of that class is seniors and some redshirt juniors. Blake might want to try and do something with that superior talent soon, because not looking like he will have superior talent moving forward. With his inferior coaching and comparable talent, its going to be a long few seasons.

No one 'paid me' me to rank classes, I was paid to compare the talent on rosters.

Also opinions vary on recruiting ,so I will reference to a 24/7 because they use a composite ranking system, which I prefer, and they have A-State as having the #1 four year class ranking in recruiting. Again, players have made it onto their, and other sbc rosters, without impacting these rankings so you have to do the 'grunt' work to really know.

http://www.sbnation.com/college-football...ball-teams

When I go to 247 and choose team rankings, Arkansas State was not ranked #1 in the SunBelt 4 years in a row. Is there a separate ranking on their website you access for the composite rankings?

Nevermind, #1 average class overall through the last 4 years, I got it. However, that will drop after this year when the 2012 class leaves, which was my point.

No problem but my point is you have no way of knowing at this point who will have the best roster next year, regardless.

This next class has not signed ( i do expect A-State will have one of the top , if not the top sbc class when all is said and done, because they are investing in the things recruits want), and because players have and will make it onto their roster 'off the recruiting radar'.

No recruiting service has Dee Liner, Chris Murray, Chase Robison, Robert Mondie,Cameron Echols-Luper, Paul Swanson, or Steven Montgomery on their roster, and that is the case with other players on other sbc teams.

You can only know next fall when the players report.

All I know is A-State has the best roster of talent in the sbc( which is why they have more pre-season all sbc selections than any other sbc team), and i can also say their younger talent is better overall than their older talent. What they do with that talent is their business.

i will say had it not been for all the coaching changes in their program over the last half-decade, their talent level would be more obvious, but should become more obvious going forward..

Are you an Arkansas State fan by chance?

Nope I'm nobody's fan.

I do live 7 miles from their stadium( although I have not attend one of their games in a decade or so, which upsets their fans), so by default know more about them than other sbc schools. Well I'm subject to more propaganda from them than other schools.

Many, many years ago i was involved in recruiting to various degrees, but have not done anything since the Perkins left (and left several recruits in the Convocation Center when he phoned and said he was leaving). Did get invited to watch the recruiting protocol they were following one weekend by an assistant coach when Freeze was there.

(10-07-2015 07:28 AM)moehler Wrote:  I don't know about more talented than App or GS, first of all, this is the same App team last year that went down to A-State and dominated the game from start to finish, I watched that game, Apps talent was as good, or better at many positions, and they had their all world qb playing that game. As far as a favorite in the App game, you obviously haven't been to a game in Boone, we are very, very tough to beat us at home, if we make it to that game without anymore losses, (going to be a challenge with GS and ULM waiting for us), or even just one loss to one of those teams, we still will be favored in the A-State game. Not saying they cant beat us, should be a really close game, first to admit A-State is a quality team, that if we don't play our best, A-State certainly can win the game, but your comment about them having superior talent, na,, ain't buying it.

No comment on the "debate" but A-State was in control of that game in the first half and was a first down away from going to the locker room up 20-6.

Qtr Time Scoring Play V-H
1st 08:28 ASU - Knighten, Fredi 1 yd TD RUSH (KICK by Ferguson, Luke), 9-81 3:04 0-7
1st 06:22 ASU - Taylor, B. 38 yd TD PUNT 0-13
2nd 13:59 APP - Cox, Marcus 1 yd TD RUSH 9-80 4:23 6-13
2nd 07:10 ASU - Houston, Tres 12 yd TD PASS from Knighten, Fredi (KICK by Ferguson, Luke), 3-31 0:46 6-20
2nd 00:05 APP - Meadors, S. 24 yd TD PASS from Lamb, Taylor (KICK by Critcher, B.), 4-37 0:31 13-20


https://www.nmnathletics.com//pdf9/2977069.pdf